Post by: ydeardorff on September 08, 2011, 11:23:09 AM
I have just retired from 20 years in the US Navy. I used to be an avid hunter 20 years ago in Oregon where I grew up. But the terrain is significantly different here in WA.
I live in the Sauk river valley, the deer come in town, and are often seen along the road way. Yet I can and have scouted out clear cuts, and other grassy features up hill from the river, and don't even see game trails.
I would presume that the deer (black tail) graze and sleep in the fields and meadows, and move up the hillside during the day and can be found along the edges of the clear cuts, or in the woods just adjacent the them. Yet since the beginning of bow/elk season, they have flat disappeared.
I had presumed they would retreat up into the hills, yet still staying withing a couple miles of the parent terrain, and have been spotting for clear cuts, adjacent to creeks and rivers with plenty for them to eat. Still nothing.
My friend is a bow hunter and hasn't seen even a doe. except for along the 530 highway. In which case they look at you like they know the regs too. LOL
Were hunting in the 400 series GMU's as its a cost, and convenience issue. With the absurdly short season, Id like some input if possible on how to correct my glassing of potential hunting areas.
Oregon is far less rugged, and has grassy meadows evenly dispersed everywhere in the forests. With the 200 foot minimum road to hunting distances it really takes a toll to find somewhere I can hunt that isn't around any population, yet still holds deer. And Im not fond of dressing up like an orange marshmallow either. The fact that the orange camo isnt legal bugs me, and seems it would make me stick out like s sore thumb, short of a 500 yard shot.
After a couple of calls to clear up some unclear items with the dept of fish and game, I found out I can use an illuminated reticle scope so long as it does not emit any light beam, any roadway, even a closed and over grown one, is still considered a road therefore the road distance rule still applies, and the camo blaze orange is not legal.
Any thoughts? Im running swiftly out of time, and Im still trying to get my chech/mauser .270 with its new BSA scope sighted in. But with college midterms looming this week, I have enough on my plate right now.
Any help or insight would be appreciated! Im not in kansas anymore toto!
Post by: bobcat on September 08, 2011, 11:39:26 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 08, 2011, 11:45:30 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 08, 2011, 01:30:22 PM
There is no set distance you are required to be from a road. If you are off the road, you are legal to hunt. I would say if you are not even seeing deer trails or any deer sign where you have been scouting, I would find a different area to hunt. Of all the areas in the state, I know region 4 the least, so I'm not much help there. If you can't find deer close to home, I'd consider driving over the mountains and hunting in Okanogan County.
I called the dept of fish and game since I talked to two forestry officers and got different answers. The dept of fish and game specifically said 200 feet from the edge of the maintained surface. So that includes the mowed grass edges of the road. Sucks I know, but Id rather be safe than sorry.
In Oregon, the black tail have much less rugged terrain, lots of meadows, food and water sources. They bed down in the valley meadows within close reach of the timber line. They get up have a snack, get a few drinks of water and they're off into the trees for their mid day meanderings. In the evening its the exact opposite. So they are very predictable, and about as thick as fleas on a dogs back. Not to mention you have a 30 day deer hunt for bucks, ending with a 2 day doe hunt as well. No orange has ever been required, but it is recommended.
Here in the Washington Sauk River valley, you can see them on the highway at dusk or dawn, but they are usually coming out of private land on the valley floor next to the river. Some are found in more densely populated ares around the heavier trees. But these blacktail are definitely a different animal than the Oregon black-tail.
I have recently gone to the okangan area (Chesaw) for a birthday trip for my wife, and we saw tons of bucks and deer every where. But with my college schedule, not to mention the shear cost of the trip its not really worth it. Id only get about a day or two of hunting. Plus they have a 3 point minimum there this season.
Thank you for the offer, I dont get up to vancouver often, but if I plan on a trip, Ill shoot ya a pm.
Post by: bobcat on September 08, 2011, 01:47:15 PM
Quote
I called the dept of fish and game since I talked to two forestry officers and got different answers. The dept of fish and game specifically said 200 feet from the edge of the maintained surface. So that includes the mowed grass edges of the road. Sucks I know, but Id rather be safe than sorry.
I'm not sure why anyone would tell you that, because there is no such law. Look in the hunting regulation pamphlet- the rule is in there. It just says you have to be off the maintined portion of the roadway. And if it's a private road, you can shoot from it if you like. The law only pertains to public roads.
Post by: woodswalker on September 08, 2011, 01:55:14 PM
The regs state, under prohibited hunting methods, item 6:
Discharging a firearm from, across,
or along the maintained portion of any public
highway, regardless of surface, is prohibited,
What were the names of the folks that this was discussed with? I will contact the sgt that I know and put the question to him. there is NO requirement for 200 feet...the REQUIREMENT is OFF the maintained portion of the roadway...that includes ditches, cuts, fills or anything that is maintained like mowing or brushing. As a general rule if you are standing on soil that was disturbed in any way, or from which the brush or grass has been cut in maintaining the right of way you need to take a few more steps. If you are standing on native soil, with natural vegetation you are good to go.
did any of these folks reference any RCW in stating that 200 feet?
Post by: ydeardorff on September 08, 2011, 02:54:05 PM
But with three people asked, and three different answers, I figured Id err on the side of good judgement as it seem even the enforcing officers arent clear on it.
Even the reg state 400 square inches of blaze orange viewable from all sides. It said nothing about the camo blaze orange.
Yet when I call they say absolutely not. Only standard blaze orange is allowed, no camo blaze orange clothing.
Are they even aware of the confusion they cause? sheesh
Post by: bobcat on September 08, 2011, 02:55:58 PM
Post by: Curly on September 08, 2011, 03:13:09 PM
Blacktail bucks are unpredictable. They are pretty much nocturnal now until the rut (about the end of October). They are sneaky *censored*s, and this weather will make it very tough to find one. Good luck and welcome to the site.
Post by: Navyrep1 on September 08, 2011, 03:31:24 PM
Blaze camo outlawed....BS. If it's not in the regs then it isn't a reg. That is not in the regs.
Post by: superdown on September 08, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
Post by: dirty24d on September 08, 2011, 04:12:58 PM
Its completely legal in Wa to bait for deer, elk, cougar, small game etc. Every thing minus turkeys, bears, and waterfowl.
cob works great. good luck!!! and welcome to the site.
Post by: ydeardorff on September 08, 2011, 07:45:44 PM
One thing also they told me was that you had to be 200 feet away from ANY road, maintained, closed or otherwise.
Now if my reading is correct, when it says "any maintained portion of the roadway" well if its an over grown mess, thats not a maintained roadway is it? LOL
Hey Navyrep1 Ill shot ya a pm here shortly.
Thanks
Post by: bobcat on September 08, 2011, 08:54:16 PM
One thing also they told me was that you had to be 200 feet away from ANY road, maintained, closed or otherwise.
Now if my reading is correct, when it says "any maintained portion of the roadway" well if its an over grown mess, thats not a maintained roadway is it?
I'll just say this one more time- "they" told you wrong. There is no such law. You only have to be OFF THE ROAD, not any particular distance from it. And this only applies to public roads. Read the 2011 Big Game pamphlet from front cover to back cover and you can see for yourself.
Post by: Kola16 on September 08, 2011, 09:28:01 PM
Post by: smdave on September 08, 2011, 10:03:25 PM
This is what the state says.
"It is illegal to hunt, shoot at or kill any animal or to shoot at any object from within, into, upon or across any public road. It is illegal to shoot across a body of water, except in the lawful pursuit of wildlife."
One thing also they told me was that you had to be 200 feet away from ANY road, maintained, closed or otherwise.
Now if my reading is correct, when it says "any maintained portion of the roadway" well if its an over grown mess, thats not a maintained roadway is it?
I'll just say this one more time- "they" told you wrong. There is no such law. You only have to be OFF THE ROAD, not any particular distance from it. And this only applies to public roads. Read the 2011 Big Game pamphlet from front cover to back cover and you can see for yourself.
Post by: ydeardorff on September 08, 2011, 11:56:14 PM
I have the printed and the PDF versions.
I have found as of today a couple of places that I got some snorts and stomps. I couldnt see them, but I could hear them.
I have a couple more spots to check out. In Oregon the apple thing is a BIG NO NO. they see it as the same as placing a salt lick.
Now if you happen to stumble into an apple orchard, thats fine. you just cant bring thr apples your self. LOL
Post by: NWBREW on September 09, 2011, 12:18:03 AM
Don't let the area fool you. There are deer all around. If you are not seeing them or sign......look in the reprod. Their there.
Post by: ydeardorff on September 09, 2011, 11:53:25 AM
Post by: jackmaster on September 09, 2011, 12:08:02 PM
Funny I have an old codger next door. Great guy, but he swears :dunno:"there ain't no deer in them hills" :dunno:. Id love to see the look on his face, if I were to get a buck and bring em home. :chuckle:welcome to the good ole washington gray ghost, there is no harder animal to hunt in the world IMO, and they are there, instead of lookn along ways away try looking no further than 75 yds and really pay attention at distances of less than 50 ft, you might be suprised how well a blacktail will hold in descent cover, and right now this weather is not to condusive to the good ole blacktail, they tend to love crappy weather... good luck to ya
Post by: ydeardorff on September 09, 2011, 12:58:23 PM
Just packing out a bear, or 3 miles buck will suck. Id be worried Id get cornered on the way out by a predator trying to steal my prize. Or of course having a heart attack trying to drag that darn thing out to the car.
But given the area Im looking at is 448, its any buck. So yes I would love to get a 3 or 4 point, but my freezers empty, and Im going for food, not fun. So Ill take a spike if I have to. Ill just have to figure out wher the best place to place the apples will be without polluting the area with my smell and driving them out of this new spot.
Post by: jackmaster on September 09, 2011, 02:09:12 PM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 09, 2011, 05:34:58 PM
So, I called the WDFW enforcement division and complained. I was put forth to LT Crown, and I asked about the following items for clarification. Blaze Orange, Baiting, and road ways.
Blaze Orange: any blaze orange is legal, provided it meets the criteria as stated in the guide for this years season, being 400 square inches or more, and viewable form all sides. So camo blaze is fine provided the orange portion of the camo is equal to or greater than 400 square inches.
Baiting: Baiting for deer is legal and not against the law, except for bear, and for fowl.
Roadways: 30 feet from the center line of the road. This does not include roads which have become closed due to washouts, that are grown over, and have barricades in place, or berms placed by heavy equipment. Those are considered trails, and do not fall under the guidelines of a "maintained roadway". If you cant get a car or truck on it, then its not considered a road.
hope that helps someone other than me.
Post by: Curly on September 09, 2011, 10:45:18 PM
Post by: NWBREW on September 10, 2011, 12:50:45 AM
You just may never see them. :chuckle:
Post by: ydeardorff on September 10, 2011, 12:55:45 AM
With most of seattle and tacoma coming up for a 2 week visit, I need to find something inconvenient to access, even if it means a long trek in on foot. Ive found s couple of places, one is a bluff, over looking a clear cut, looking down on a stream, the other is another clear cut that is a 3 mile trek on foot to get into. Im thinking about taking my bike in there on sunday to get a better look.
Post by: NWBREW on September 10, 2011, 01:11:03 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 10, 2011, 09:26:53 AM
I know now where at least one doe is,... my back yard.... Very skinny and small though.
Funny after about 3 tanks of gas worth of scouting, and several days invested and not seeing a thing, I get a doe (very dark gray in color) comes right into my back yard around 8am this morning.
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 10, 2011, 10:30:04 AM
Right around the 3rd week in Sept. the ones around us disappear and go completely nocturnal and they dont have one bit of hunting pressure here. So good luck man... :tup: If It were me, I would save my money or split the gas cost by going after mulies with a few people so as not to have to hunt blacktail. They are truely a frustrating breed....at least for me. :bash:
Post by: ydeardorff on September 10, 2011, 08:20:21 PM
I saw more deer sign on this trip than I have the entire last month. (excluding the visit to my back yard this morning).
Huge foot prints, several rub signs on alder saplings, to include bear sign with scat and 3 inch alders snapped clean over with claw marks still on them (old markings that were partially healed). The deer prints were really nice sized, at least tow fingers wide and at least two knuckles long. I found several other places that looked nice for clear cuts, backed by a very steep ridge that is about 80 feet off the clearing floor. But there is no water supply anywhere near these clearings.
The last place I looked with all the sign, and prints, was directly next to a creek. The cover was so dense, Id need a chain saw to cut my way out if I were dragging a buck back out with me. Not to mention with all the bear sign I would probably want to take a partner to keep me company, lest my prize may be questioned on ownership on the way back to the car.
Most of what I saw was a steep ridge backing a small maybe 5 acre clear cut. But all of the clear cuts were lacking water. The only one that wasnt was seriously overgrown, but it was like wildlife grand central station.
Post by: h20hunter on September 10, 2011, 09:10:04 PM
Happy hunting.
Post by: dirty24d on September 10, 2011, 09:34:34 PM
I'll help look too..
Post by: ydeardorff on September 10, 2011, 11:23:29 PM
Most of the trails, markings, and even smell were in the very dense section next to the stream. Lots of tracks elsewhere. But not like near the stream. A good shot up there would be 50 feet if I was lucky. in the lower clear cuts, 100 yards plus.
Post by: NWBREW on September 11, 2011, 01:13:24 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 11, 2011, 08:21:40 AM
The other question i had was on tree stands. Ive never used em. But in heavily overgrown fields would they be useful, or not help much.
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 11, 2011, 10:06:44 AM
Nicely done. Looks like you are onto some nice areas. I wouldn't worry about ownership of game out there. No little blackie is gonna want to mess with you. Now, big cat, maybe. However, you won't know it is there until it is clawing your face off. We'll find your carcass stashed in a tree and use your case to further promote hound hunting. So, keep at it and I look foward to being part of the search party that looks for you after the kitty eats you.
Happy hunting.
LMAO!!!! That's funny right there.....Way to make a guy feel good about going into the woods h2O. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: h20hunter on September 11, 2011, 10:10:39 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 11, 2011, 11:22:15 AM
I dont have any buds to go with around here that take hunting as serious as I do. I just retired from 20 years in the Navy so Ive been gone for the last 5 years pretty much.
Anyone willing to help pack in all the gear, on a bicycle, on a 3 mile up hill trek, then trek in about a mile to hunt a 30 yard opening on foot through enough wild rose and blackberry bushes to make a hunting lab say "yeah right" is more than willing to come. ;) I just like the peace of mind I have another set of eyes, and ears to keep a look out. Not to mention help drag the little bugger out of there through all that crap. I bet the drag out would take all night.
Post by: bobcat on September 11, 2011, 07:06:14 PM
I just like the peace of mind I have another set of eyes, and ears to keep a look out. Not to mention help drag the little bugger out of there through all that crap. I bet the drag out would take all night.
:bdid:
Post by: ydeardorff on September 11, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 11, 2011, 08:00:46 PM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 11, 2011, 08:50:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 11, 2011, 08:51:26 PM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 11, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
Post by: jackmaster on September 12, 2011, 02:19:28 PM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 12, 2011, 10:42:31 PM
I dont know if I can hunt both at the same time, or not. But Im going to look into it as far as the bear goes. But 10 acres of private land with only me hunting on it sounds very tempting.
I think Id prefer using a buck bag, and just roughing it out. A quick call on the cell would result in some help if it got dark on me, since Im hunting locally.
I would think leaving a carcass or half of one alone wouldn't go unnoticed for long, and could bring some unwelcome guests to the event.
Post by: jackmaster on September 13, 2011, 06:47:19 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 13, 2011, 09:45:42 AM
This person, was talked to by my wife, in order to talk her into it. So I doubt me bringing a friend would fly. LOL
But its one hell of a lot more convenient of a hunt than packing my self in 3 to 4 miles so I can pack myself out+ a deer/bear. LOL
AND the property is a mile from my house. :IBCOOL:
Post by: Navyrep1 on September 13, 2011, 10:09:45 AM
Post by: ydeardorff on September 13, 2011, 10:32:53 AM
I was thinking the same thing. But if this 10 acre plot of private land bordering the national forest works out, my drag will be short.
Post by: k88241 on September 21, 2011, 04:29:48 PM