Post by: MIKEXRAY on June 29, 2008, 05:52:26 AM
Post by: SuperDave on June 29, 2008, 08:16:11 AM
Post by: DeKuma on June 29, 2008, 08:30:15 AM
Got my first elk in 91. All by myself, out in the middle of nowhere, with just a rifle and a small pocket knife. Elk fell against a small tree and a stump and I could not get enough leverage to roll him over. Had no rope to use to help roll him and keep him form rolling down the hill. Managed to get the head cut-off and I packed that out and then went and called for help. Luckily there it was near dark and there was a light snow falling to keep the meat cool. I had no way of marking where he was so I left my hat hanging from a brach and then cut markers into the trees and made rock arrows on the ground on the way out so I could find him again.
No such thing as over prepared!
Great points and good post!
Post by: bowhuntin on June 29, 2008, 01:49:00 PM
If so what do you use to keep them at bay. I have heard pepper works and also I think it was water mixed with a bit of vinegar.
Post by: DeKuma on June 29, 2008, 03:05:05 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on June 29, 2008, 03:56:55 PM
Post by: MIKEXRAY on June 29, 2008, 04:29:24 PM
Post by: TheHunt on June 29, 2008, 04:57:22 PM
I also bring a sawsall with the 12 or 14 inch blades. You can quarter out an elk in about five minutes. After you gut the elk you just move the quarters or meat bags away from the elk about 100 yard if possible in a coolest area you can find.
If I have all four bags I can gut, skin, quarter and bag each in about 20 min. If I have to cape the head that takes time as well...
gut first,
Skin one side first, If you are caping the animal start at the spine and skin down. After you have one side finished and the two legs are off at he knee you can lay two bags down and roll the elk over on the bags and continue the skinning.
After the skinning take the head off at base of the skull.
Measure three ribs from the bottom and cut and seperate the meat from the ribs. You have to cut the spin and your knife can do it. Sawsall for this works fantastic.
Set the top half on top of the bottom half and run the sawsall through the spine. The trick here is the last four inches slip two bags over the quarters as far as you can down the quarters. Finish the cut with the sawsall, the quarters will seperate and fall over. Just pull the bags ends and you have half the elk in bags. Leave those bags down drag close together. Now roll the back half up on the two filled bags. Start cutting with sawsall until you get close and take the bags that were laying on the ground shake the crap off the bags (down wind) pull over each back quarter, finish the cut and pull the end of the bags and you know have each quarter in a game bag.
That is how I do it... Seams to work great, I have very little if any dirt or anything on the meat. Packing out is where you call a young hunter and have them pack it out. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: scudmaster on June 29, 2008, 05:38:18 PM
Have any of you skinned elk from the back. You can actually quarter out your elk without ever gutting it. Pretty slick and certainly much cleaner.
Also I will include a link to the best skinning knife below. It uses 2 1/2" scalpel blades that you replace in the field. No longer need to sharpen that skinning knife. (You still need a heavier blade to get through the thick stuff) but it is faster and sharper and much cleaner to work with than utility knives. It also gives you a much better finished product for your trophy.
Also, Trash compactor bags are much more sturdy and less likely to leak than regular trash bags.
http://www.osograndeknives.com/Havalon/havalon_new_product_releases.htm
Hope you all find this info useful.
Scud
Post by: TheHunt on June 29, 2008, 08:37:33 PM
Post by: Elknut1 on June 29, 2008, 08:42:49 PM
Good post & stuff guys!! Always be prepared!! Heck, I'd be embarrassed to share with you how I first started elk hunting & what I had with me instead of what I should've had with me!!!! Thanks, you've brought back memories!!!
ElkNut1
Post by: tmike on June 29, 2008, 10:40:52 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on June 29, 2008, 10:50:11 PM
Good topic, I got a quick question for those of you that hunt in the early bow season, once you have an elk down do you have much trouble with flies or bees around your meat?
If so what do you use to keep them at bay. I have heard pepper works and also I think it was water mixed with a bit of vinegar.
Two guys. One to do the cutting and butchering while the other fans the animal with a large pine bough to keep them away. Have shot two in the early season the past three years and have had tons of both flies and bees. A distraction pile does help but not for all. They seriously do not like a breeze so the fanning does help. We have tried pepper with mixed results. Getting the meat into game bags asap is the best bet but know that if there hasn't been significant cold weather you will have issues with flies and bees. It was in the high 70s/low 80s on opening day last year.
Didn't lose any meat but fighting the heat and bugs wasn't fun. It made us work faster.
Post by: Todd_ID on June 30, 2008, 11:50:51 AM
I use the garbage bags on top of normal heavy cotton game bags when I need to submerge the meat in a creek to help cool it out when it's over about 60 in the cool draws. I always carry 4 garbage bags for this purpose (plus, they help in the rain). I think that you only want food-grade bags touching meat, but I never have the bags touching meat, so that may be why I've never had a problem.
Cool and dry are the major buzz-words for caring for meat. You have to get the original body heat out of the animal as quick as you can. I like to submerge the quarters in a creek for a couple hours to get the temp moving down quickly; I put them in heavy cotton game bags then in garbage bags to keep the water off. Body heat comes from proteins breaking down in the meat, and stopping this process is what we attempt to do to reduce spoilage. Air circulation all around the meat is a must: you can, and will, lose meat if you leave it lying on snow since no air is moving around the meat to carry the heat away and snow is an insulator. You can leave meat hanging in a cool creek bottom in 70-75 degree days for a week without worrying about losing meat, but you have to hang it or build a bridge between stumps to keep it off the ground.
As for flies and bees.... Working quickly is a key thing since the blow flies can work pretty quickly. I just swish them away as I'm working on cleaning and quartering then get each quarter in game bags as fast as I can. I soak my bags in the summer time in a bucket of lemon juice and crushed red peppers then hang them over the line to dry before vacuum sealing them for the season. This works well for keeping the critters away from the hanging quarters, but it doesn't help any for the cleaning process.
Post by: MIKEXRAY on June 30, 2008, 01:17:21 PM
Post by: DeKuma on June 30, 2008, 01:22:22 PM
Post by: saylean on June 30, 2008, 01:33:58 PM
Good topic, I got a quick question for those of you that hunt in the early bow season, once you have an elk down do you have much trouble with flies or bees around your meat?
If so what do you use to keep them at bay. I have heard pepper works and also I think it was water mixed with a bit of vinegar.
Last year, our hunting party got 2 elk in early archery...the yellow jackets got there real quick on the semi warm day...Basically, we used meat sacks, cut the legs off, put one in each sack and then hung them from trees to keep them out of the dirt while we worked on the rest of it. We didnt use anything to really keep the bees off. They seem more concerned about getting a quick bite to eat than stinging anyone. But they were a nuisance....might have to try something new this year...if we get anything.. ;)
Post by: fishseeker on June 30, 2008, 06:32:11 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on June 30, 2008, 06:40:19 PM
Oh, don't start drinking the beers before you have half the elk out. It just makes for a long haul the last couple quarters. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: robb92 on June 30, 2008, 08:24:12 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on June 30, 2008, 09:09:02 PM
:llam:
Post by: TheHunt on June 30, 2008, 09:36:37 PM
I've never had a problem using them, but I've read that we're better off using food-grade bags from a butcher.
I use the garbage bags on top of normal heavy cotton game bags when I need to submerge the meat in a creek to help cool it out when it's over about 60 in the cool draws. I always carry 4 garbage bags for this purpose (plus, they help in the rain). I think that you only want food-grade bags touching meat, but I never have the bags touching meat, so that may be why I've never had a problem.
Cool and dry are the major buzz-words for caring for meat. You have to get the original body heat out of the animal as quick as you can. I like to submerge the quarters in a creek for a couple hours to get the temp moving down quickly; I put them in heavy cotton game bags then in garbage bags to keep the water off. Body heat comes from proteins breaking down in the meat, and stopping this process is what we attempt to do to reduce spoilage. Air circulation all around the meat is a must: you can, and will, lose meat if you leave it lying on snow since no air is moving around the meat to carry the heat away and snow is an insulator. You can leave meat hanging in a cool creek bottom in 70-75 degree days for a week without worrying about losing meat, but you have to hang it or build a bridge between stumps to keep it off the ground.
I soak my bags in the summer time in a bucket of lemon juice and crushed red peppers then hang them over the line to dry before vacuum sealing them for the season. This works well for keeping the critters away from the hanging quarters, but it doesn't help any for the cleaning process.
What is the receipe for the bucket of lemon juice and crushed red peppers? That is a great idea.
What is a food grade bag?
Lastly, if you put a quarter in a creek how do you keep the water out of it?
Post by: Todd_ID on July 01, 2008, 08:24:56 AM
What is the receipe for the bucket of lemon juice and crushed red peppers? That is a great idea.
What is a food grade bag?
Lastly, if you put a quarter in a creek how do you keep the water out of it?
I hear there is a coating on most garbage bags that is a no-no for meat. A butcher should be able to give you much better info than I. Submerging meat in water is a trick because I have to make sure the quarters are small enough to be able to tie the bag securely so no water gets in. My solution to that is just shoot small elk, but sometimes it happens that I accidently kill a big one. In that case I just cut the lower leg bone out like I do when processing the meat. Then the quarter goes in a meat sack then into a garbage bag and is waterproof.
Recipe.....hmmm. The way I do it is to put one gallon of water in a 5 gallon bucket, then I add one of the large bottles of lemon juice from Costco and probably 2 tablespoons of crushed red peppers (like you put on your pizza). I stir it a bit with a stick and let it heat up in the sun for an hour or so to let it cook together. Then I put in a meat sack and swish it around long enough to thoroughly soak it then pull it out and hang it overnight to dry. One mixture is enough to do about 4 game bags.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 01, 2008, 08:27:53 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on July 01, 2008, 08:35:02 AM
garbage bags and any part of game is a huge NO NO. capes, meat, skulls and hides can all be ruined in a short amount of time. :twocents:
I agree, but you can lose meat quickly if you can't get the body heat out of it. I should clarify my posts above to say that I only leave the bag on while the meat is submerged. It comes off as soon as the meat comes out of the creek. I always have the meat in a cotton game bag, and the meat only stays submerged for an hour (or two hours on a hot day in a warm creek). Sometimes sinking the meat in a creek is my only option for getting the body heat out. I prepare for that by carrying 4 garbage bags in my pack during September.
Post by: CP on July 01, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 01, 2008, 08:38:00 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on July 01, 2008, 10:37:54 PM
The issue is to be sure to get it to dry properly if wetted. Think about it..., how many times have you shot an animal when it was pouring buckets of rain.....
Meat is approximately 75% water content, before you get there... Water will not ruin meat.
Post by: MIKEXRAY on July 02, 2008, 05:23:14 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on July 02, 2008, 05:59:58 AM
Water will not spoil meat when properly done. We have thrown critters in creeks and rivers for as long as two days with no problem. We always dry them then wipe them down with a little water and vinegar before drying them with a fan and cooling them with an air conditioner.
Post by: DJR on July 02, 2008, 06:52:42 AM
Great thread. I am hoping to try the gutless method this season. Here are a couple of links for those that are curious.
http://home.att.net/~sajackson/bugle.html
http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=27
DJR
Post by: Gobble on July 02, 2008, 07:06:21 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on July 08, 2008, 01:07:09 PM
Post by: bucklucky on July 08, 2008, 02:52:35 PM
In order to make the best product from your game, we need to start with game that has been well taken care of. There are many theories on the best ways to take care of game in the field. Personally, I use a proven method that is based on the principals used in the meat processing industry. The aim of this method is to make life harder for bacteria and flies by; creating a cool, high-acid environment to slow their growth, limiting their food sources by bleaching out blood, making a protective glaze coating and by controlling flies.
(Meat yield from a good-sized bull moose can run into the hundreds of pounds...and it is good eating! Photo by David M. Johnson)
THE GAME BAG
Never use plastic or woven plastic bags because they tend to hold in the heat and don't allow for proper air circulation. Always use cheesecloth or a cheesecloth like material, which is strong enough to carry the meat while it allows for maximum air movement, yet still has a tight enough weave to keep flies out. You can find the bags at most sporting goods stores.
TREATING THE BAG: Prepare a citric acid solution as follows: Blend (in a blender or juicer) three lemons (un-pealed), one large bottle of lemon juice concentrate and one small bottle of Tabasco sauce. Soak the game bags in the solution for 20 minutes to one hour. Then let them air dry completely (not in the dryer). Finally, seal them in zip lock baggies. [You may want to use rubber gloves while preparing these bags -- Webmaster]
RESULTS: Flies may light on the bag but the citric acid burns them and they will not hang around. Also, the citric acid helps to reduce bacteria growth. Bacteria grows rapidly at a pH level of 7.0. The pH level contained in lemons or limes is around 2.35. You can buy a high concentrated dry citric acid at Indian Valley Meats that will make a gallon of liquid for $2.00. This will also help the pH level drop to around 5.3. The higher the pH level the more chance there is of spoiling.
The Alaska Dept of Fish and Game has prepared this
video to assist hunters in preparing the highest
quality meat. Click here to order.
REASONS pH LEVEL WILL BE HIGH: If the animal has been running a long way and is excited its blood sugar level will drop which causes lactic acid in the muscle tissue to be higher. The meat will be darker in color and have an off flavor to it. This is why a clean kill is important.
COOLING THE MEAT
COOL THE MEAT QUICKLY IN WATER: In the field, you want to cool your meat quickly because the sooner the meat is cool, the better the meat will be. You should bleed, gut and skin your animal as soon as you can. Next, you need to reduce the temperature of the meat. If you are near a stream or lake, you can submerge the quarters to bring the temperature down. Do not cool completely in water. Retain enough heat to dry the meat when it comes out of the water. For water cooling, I carry a sheet of plastic "visquine" and spread it out in a lake or stream. Once the animal is quartered, I lay the meat on the visquine and let it cool for twenty-five minutes to an hour (depending on the mass of the meat).
Advertisement
WHY WATER COOL YOUR MEAT? A bath in a stream or lake speeds the cooling process and bleaches out excess blood that feed bacteria and attracts flies. Alaska game animals have a very large meat mass. Consequently, it takes a long time for the meat to cool down. The cold water temperature of the lakes and streams in Alaska help expedite the cooling process.
WATER COOLING CONCERNS: (1). I've been told by several hunters that you should avoid getting meat wet. This is partially true; you don't want to leave meat wet. This is why you retain enough heat in the meat to cause drying once you remove it from the water (also see air drying for procedures to remove excess water). (2). I've also heard concerns about Giardia in the water getting into the meat. While I can't guarantee the purity of the water or possible transfer of bacteria to your meat, I can say that I have never heard of anyone getting sick from water cooled meat, and I talk with a lot of hunters. The decision is yours based upon the conditions at your location, cleanliness of water and outside temperature. Tests have also been done in Canada by Bailight, which show the strong acid in citric acid should take care of Giardia and will also help kill types of bacteria.
AIR DRYING/STORING MEAT IN THE FIELD
AFTER WATER COOLING: After you have brought the temperature of the meat down, you're ready to begin air drying. If you are near water, there is normally a gentle breeze at all times. Hang the meat in such a way as to take advantage of this air movement. Protect the meat from the warm sun with some sort of shelter. I bring a light weight tarp for this purpose
REMOVE EXCESS MOISTURE: Once the meat is hung under the tarp, run your hands down it to squeeze out and remove any excess moisture.
APPLY LEMON JUICE MIXTURE OR CITRIC ACID: Lightly coat the meat with a lemon juice mixture (see game bags). This will create a high acid protective glaze over the meat while it is drying.
PLACE IN GAME BAGS: When the meat is dry, it's ready to place in the game bags and rehang.
FLY TRAPS
NECESSARY SUPPLIES: Buy a small can of Golden Malprin (available at Alaska Mill and Feed) and a small piece of black plastic (a black plastic garbage bag is fine).
BUILDING THE FLY TRAP: Eight to ten feet away from your meat, lay a couple of branches on the ground. Pile scraps of meat on and around the branches. Pour Golden Malprin on and around the scraps of meat. Cut a slit in the center of the garbage bag or black plastic and place the bag loosely over the pile.
HOW IT WORKS: The sun heats the plastic, which heats the meat. The flies are attracted and crawl through the slit in the plastic to the meat. The Golden Malprin kills the flies.
WHEN YOU LEAVE THE AREA: Put the black plastic and the scraps of meat with the Golden Malprin on it in a zip lock baggy and carry it out with you.
WINTER AND COLD WEATHER HUNTING
Post by: ICEMAN on July 09, 2008, 01:21:35 AM
Post by: Elknut1 on July 10, 2008, 05:19:48 AM
Bucklucky, great post!! Very informative! Thanks!
ElkNut1
Post by: MIKEXRAY on July 10, 2008, 05:16:15 PM