Post by: magnanimous_j on September 29, 2011, 09:45:33 AM
However, in 2012, I plan on doing some big game stuff. So I’m on the market for a big game rifle. I’ve been reading a lot of Chuck Hawks, and while a lot of the things he says makes sense, I wonder if he isn’t overly against new technology. He doesn’t seem to like synthetic stocks, free floating barrels, or anything plastic.
So over the next few years, I would like to try out Deer, Elk, Bear, and Coyote. I would like one rifle to do all that for me, and if I can get really unrealistic, one bullet.
So what do you guys think about caliber? I’ve narrowed it down to 7mag, 30-06, or .308.
As far as guns go, I was considering Savage 110, Rem 700, or maybe Weatherby Vanguard.
What do you guys think?
Post by: Pathfinder101 on September 29, 2011, 09:53:12 AM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on September 29, 2011, 09:57:26 AM
do I really have to say the cal? :)
Of the ones you have listed, I'd go with the 30-06.
I'd even use it to hunt grizz and I use power level ammo for deer since I'm not into reloading just yet.
Post by: BuckHunter23 on September 29, 2011, 09:59:19 AM
Post by: Mike450r on September 29, 2011, 10:00:22 AM
The brands you listed are all great choices too. I would go with the savage myself to save a few bucks and still have a good shooter right out of the box.
I have savage 110's in .30-06 and .308 and like them both. I have a rem 700 in 7mm and it is a great shooter too. I have a couple vangaurds in wby calibers that I really like as well. So just pick one and you will have made the right choice.
Post by: Skillet on September 29, 2011, 10:00:54 AM
180 gr Accubond
Remington 700
Good 3x9 scope (If on a budget I say get the Bushnell 4200 for $200 - there was a link floating around here somewhere)
Use only quality components. Buy good used stuff if you have to - never by cheap new stuff.
Post by: deerslyr on September 29, 2011, 10:58:35 AM
Post by: huntnphool on September 29, 2011, 11:02:22 AM
Post by: Buckmark on September 29, 2011, 11:06:04 AM
I would add an A-bolt to the mix, or the model 70 like phool said.
And i agree with skillet, good equipment used is better than ok equipment new...and therea re alot of great used guns out there, some with good glass already on them... :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on September 29, 2011, 11:13:28 AM
If your ok shooting a 7mag it would be my choice, if not then the 06.
I would add an A-bolt to the mix, or the model 70 like phool said.
And i agree with skillet, good equipment used is better than ok equipment new...and therea re alot of great used guns out there, some with good glass already on them... :twocents:
I knew my list would be leaving out obvious manufacturers, no disrespect intended. I agree the A-bolt would be another no brainer without breaking the bank. Good point on the "pre-owned", I think its a better way to go right now with the way the economy is and you are on a budget, lots of good deals to be had out there. ;)
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 29, 2011, 11:14:31 AM
Rem 700 in a 30-06. If you are going to own only one rifle for western big game, that's it IMHO. I am a big fan of the .270 myself, but lot's of people would say it's a little light for elk and (if you ever happen to draw) moose.
:yeah:
Post by: dawei on September 29, 2011, 11:14:46 AM
Post by: Miles on September 29, 2011, 11:15:53 AM
I own Tikka, Ruger, and Browning. IF I was to buy another rifle, it would be another tikka. They just shoot great out of the box, and seem to like any ammo/bullet combination you throw at them. :dunno:
Post by: magnanimous_j on September 29, 2011, 11:30:12 AM
If your ok shooting a 7mag it would be my choice, if not then the 06.
I would add an A-bolt to the mix, or the model 70 like phool said.
And i agree with skillet, good equipment used is better than ok equipment new...and therea re alot of great used guns out there, some with good glass already on them... :twocents:
I've never shot a 7mag, but I'm a pretty big guy and can shoot my 870 express and AK47 all day. I don't have much high powered rifle experience, but I shot a 30-06 a few years back and don't remember having a problem with the recoil.
I think I'm going to stick with a traditional wood stock for this first one, with as few synthetic or plastic pieces as possible. I looked up the Model 70 and it is a really beautiful gun, but maybe a little out of my range.
I was drawn to the Savage because I read they were good, "out of the box" shooters that lasted forever. Also, they look nice, but not so pretty that I would be afraid to get a scratch or two on it. Plus, the accutrigger is a big selling feature.
I would go with a Savage® 110 in 30/06. That caliber is the most versatile of the three you mentioned shooting 110-220gr bulets. Check out Big 5 Sporting Goods, they have Savage 110 "Package Series" in 270 Win, 30/06 Sprg, and 7mm Rem Mag on sale for $399.99+tax. You get the rifle, 3x9 scope, and sling.
Yeah, I looked at those. I'm fine if the scope is cheap, because it can always be swapped out as I progress, but is there any difference in the actual rifle? I want this rifle to be my go to for many years and I don't want any cheap components that may break in the field or wear out before their time.
Thanks to all for your responses. Definitely giving me a lot to think about.
Post by: Bean Counter on September 29, 2011, 11:46:08 AM
I bought a used, beat up, and ugly Ruger M77 chambered in .30-06 for $300 a few years ago. I'm not sure if it classifies as a tack driver but I can easily hit a 20" iron target all day long at 550 yards--the longest distance at the range I shoot at. That's with cheap, $1/round ammo.
Post by: Biggerhammer on September 29, 2011, 11:48:18 AM
Post by: demontang on September 29, 2011, 12:09:05 PM
Post by: dannysdaddy on September 29, 2011, 12:16:40 PM
Post by: bowpredator on September 29, 2011, 12:49:40 PM
Post by: jess on September 29, 2011, 12:54:10 PM
Post by: Bofire on September 29, 2011, 01:15:50 PM
Carl
Post by: TheHunt on September 29, 2011, 01:26:38 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 29, 2011, 01:28:43 PM
Post by: CedarPants on September 29, 2011, 01:29:39 PM
I think I'm going to stick with a traditional wood stock for this first one, with as few synthetic or plastic pieces as possible. I looked up the Model 70 and it is a really beautiful gun, but maybe a little out of my range.
One of my favorite wood stock guns is my Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe in 30-06. Bought it brand new a couple years ago in a used gun shop for under $500. Looks like a Mark V and shoots like one as well. No synthetic or plastic pieces. They no longer make the Vanguard Deluxe but they aren't uncommon if you look for them.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 29, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 29, 2011, 07:15:36 PM
just like how it sounds...plus you can shoot bears, coyotes, deer, and elk with it :dunno:
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 29, 2011, 07:22:57 PM
Post by: 87Ford on September 29, 2011, 07:29:37 PM
Post by: SkookumJeff on September 29, 2011, 08:46:26 PM
Good luck.
Skook
Post by: Rick on September 29, 2011, 08:56:57 PM
My thinking that there was something better than an '06 cost me a lot of money over the years.
For a while,I was shooting something different every season.
The big fire breathing magnums didn't kill any better than my '06.
Put a bullet in the vitals,and it doesn't matter whats on the headstamp.
Post by: runningboard on September 29, 2011, 10:10:37 PM
Post by: rebal69972 on September 29, 2011, 10:50:43 PM
Post by: Skillet on September 30, 2011, 07:44:28 AM
Savage Model 10, 308, 20 inch barrel, 4x16x50 Millett Mil Dot, 800 + yrd shooter.I like that. Do you think you're giving up anything with that 20" barrel?
Post by: PolarBear on September 30, 2011, 07:53:22 AM
Post by: SkookumJeff on September 30, 2011, 09:24:28 AM
The average loss for the .30-06/180 grain bullet was 15 fps per inch.
Post by: Huntbear on September 30, 2011, 09:40:08 AM
7mmmmmmmmmmmmm OHHHHH 8
just like how it sounds...plus you can shoot bears, coyotes, deer, and elk with it :dunno:
Awesome round, especially if you are a little recoil shy.... :tup: :tup: a very versatile caliber.
If you want something with a bit more knock down, and range.. and still a short action get a 300 WSM, I like both the Tikka and the Browning in the lightweights.. but recoil does not bother me at all... it may you.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 30, 2011, 10:17:29 AM
Savage Model 10, 308, 20 inch barrel, 4x16x50 Millett Mil Dot, 800 + yrd shooter.I like that. Do you think you're giving up anything with that 20" barrel?
No, not at all. I've shot 877 yards with it a few times.( Shooting Steel ) It will shoot 600 yards very easy with the setup you see. It also has a Surefire Brake on it too, forgot to mention it.
If I remember right, it chronograhped at 2750 fsp the way it sits with 168 grn ammo.
Post by: Huntboy on September 30, 2011, 11:01:30 AM
Nice.Savage Model 10, 308, 20 inch barrel, 4x16x50 Millett Mil Dot, 800 + yrd shooter.I like that. Do you think you're giving up anything with that 20" barrel?
No, not at all. I've shot 877 yards with it a few times.( Shooting Steel ) It will shoot 600 yards very easy with the setup you see. It also has a Surefire Brake on it too, forgot to mention it.
If I remember right, it chronograhped at 2750 fsp the way it sits with 168 grn ammo.
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 30, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
Check out the Tikka T3 Lite rifles. Shoot incredibly straight right out of the box. I have one in .270 and love it.
:yeah:
Tikka is made by Sako. Very accurate good rifles. I have owned quite a few rifles in my day......Remmington, Savage ect. None have compared to my Tikka T3 300 WM that I own now. I shoot under 1/2 MOA @ 100 yards even with a heated barrel, and under 1 inch MOA at 200 yards. The trigger pull is super smooth and so is the bolt. Best rifle I have ever owned. If I ever had the need for a different rifle, Sako or Tikka would always be 1st on my list.
Its a great rifle that performs awesome with the right loads. I use Hornady Superformance 165 grain GMX. However, you may not want a 300 WM. I don't hunt coyotes, and cant imagine what that load would do to smaller game. Seems to me out of your listed choices.....the 7mm mag would be the better option.... :twocents:
Post by: jackmaster on September 30, 2011, 12:01:48 PM
Post by: oneshotkill on September 30, 2011, 12:49:33 PM
I would go with a Savage® 110 in 30/06. That caliber is the most versatile of the three you mentioned shooting 110-220gr bulets. Check out Big 5 Sporting Goods, they have Savage 110 "Package Series" in 270 Win, 30/06 Sprg, and 7mm Rem Mag on sale for $399.99+tax. You get the rifle, 3x9 scope, and sling.
Yeah, I looked at those. I'm fine if the scope is cheap, because it can always be swapped out as I progress, but is there any difference in the actual rifle? I want this rifle to be my go to for many years and I don't want any cheap components that may break in the field or wear out before their time.
I have this exact gun and love it. It is not expensive and fancy but is a tack driver. At 100 yards I average three-shot 3/4 inch groups with it with some groups getting as low as 1/2 inch. I haven't changed the scope yet primarily because I mostly archery hunt but if I started doing more hunting with it I would get a new scope. The one on it is sufficient and usable, just not high value or nice. I got that package at Big 5 and it has served me well and best of all was not expensive.
Thanks to all for your responses. Definitely giving me a lot to think about.
[/quote]
Post by: magnanimous_j on September 30, 2011, 01:04:08 PM
I have this exact gun and love it. It is not expensive and fancy but is a tack driver. At 100 yards I average three-shot 3/4 inch groups with it with some groups getting as low as 1/2 inch. I haven't changed the scope yet primarily because I mostly archery hunt but if I started doing more hunting with it I would get a new scope. The one on it is sufficient and usable, just not high value or nice. I got that package at Big 5 and it has served me well and best of all was not expensive.
Right now that package is a front runner for me. Everything I've read about Savage says the same thing: "Accurate, reliable, durable, affordable, kind of ugly." That's exactly what I'm looking for.
My question is: Is the rifle in the 110 package any different than any off the shelf 110?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 01, 2011, 05:15:02 PM
I have this exact gun and love it. It is not expensive and fancy but is a tack driver. At 100 yards I average three-shot 3/4 inch groups with it with some groups getting as low as 1/2 inch. I haven't changed the scope yet primarily because I mostly archery hunt but if I started doing more hunting with it I would get a new scope. The one on it is sufficient and usable, just not high value or nice. I got that package at Big 5 and it has served me well and best of all was not expensive.
Right now that package is a front runner for me. Everything I've read about Savage says the same thing: "Accurate, reliable, durable, affordable, kind of ugly." That's exactly what I'm looking for.
My question is: Is the rifle in the 110 package any different than any off the shelf 110?
Check out: www.lowpriceguns.com (http://www.lowpriceguns.com) You can get it cheaper if you pick it up in Bellevue.
Post by: addicted on October 06, 2011, 07:37:39 AM
with that in mind you get better rifle for the money with a savage over a remington plus the option to change barrels later.
also with cost cutting in mind you cand really consider the magnum cartridges. 308 or 3006. if you get the the 08, you can change barrels to 7mm08, .243, 338 federal, and anything else SA. with the 06 you can change to 25.06 7x64, 280, .270, 338.06 and 35whelen. All with a savage lug wrench in your living room. :tup:
Post by: Special T on October 06, 2011, 10:40:08 AM
Post by: GEARHEAD on October 06, 2011, 02:07:23 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 06, 2011, 07:06:28 PM
Rem 700 in a 30-06. If you are going to own only one rifle for western big game, that's it IMHO. I am a big fan of the .270 myself, but lot's of people would say it's a little light for elk and (if you ever happen to draw) moose.well I have not seen any elk walk off from my .270 :chuckle: :yeah:
Post by: manfromspam on October 06, 2011, 07:30:08 PM
Post by: JKEEN33 on October 06, 2011, 09:15:05 PM
Post by: Swatson on October 07, 2011, 09:08:41 AM
Post by: Wazukie on October 07, 2011, 09:21:58 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on October 07, 2011, 10:34:33 AM
There are as many answers as there are people to this question.
I'm starting to get that :chuckle:
There is not one caliber to do it all. Plain and simple. You can kill everything with one caliber, but need a specific caliber range to kill some animals and not destroy them.
That makes sense. The four animals that I want to use the rifle on are: Coyotes, Deer, Elk, and Bear. Most likely, elk will be the primary game, then coyote, bear, and deer last. I don't plan on collecting hides off the dogs, so an effective, humane kill is my only consideration there. So as long as the caliber is effective on the other three, I'm happy.
If I ever get into cougar, or antelope or some other small-big game then I would likely buy a second rifle in a more appropriate caliber then.
As it stands now, 30-06 seems to be my best bet.
Post by: h20hunter on October 07, 2011, 10:46:18 AM
Post by: yakimarcher on October 07, 2011, 11:18:06 AM
Post by: coachcw on October 07, 2011, 11:52:22 AM
Post by: Special T on October 07, 2011, 12:44:17 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on October 07, 2011, 12:51:37 PM
There are 2 rounds that have killed more big game than any other in N america. They are the British 303 and the 30-06 Tehy are not the fastest or sexiest but they are a work horse...
303 British? You've got to be kidding me.. Did you mean 30-30win or 30wcf?
-Steve
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 07, 2011, 12:52:28 PM
Rem 700 in a 30-06. If you are going to own only one rifle for western big game, that's it IMHO. I am a big fan of the .270 myself, but lot's of people would say it's a little light for elk and (if you ever happen to draw) moose.well I have not seen any elk walk off from my .270 :chuckle: :yeah:
:yeah: x's 2! Nice Mr. Elk met mine up close and personal and he didn't stagger very far after the introduction. I've been a big supporter of the .308 but after trying my new .270 I'm sold that it's a very good caliber for elk with shot placement.
Post by: jbender on October 07, 2011, 01:00:18 PM
Post by: rgalanti21 on October 07, 2011, 03:00:09 PM
Post by: Special T on October 07, 2011, 09:27:59 PM
Post by: Special T on October 07, 2011, 09:47:41 PM
Although the United States of America did not officially adopt a .303 rifle, it did produce, under the Lend - Lease scheme of WWII, nearly a third of the wartime production of No 4 rifles used by British troops. US Lend - Lease production for the UK was 1,196,706 No 4 rifles whereas the total British wartime production of this rifle was 2,021,913. This of course was not the total number of .303 rifles produced in the UK during WW2, as the SMLE Rifle No 1 was still being manufactured, BSA alone producing nearly a quarter of a million No 1 Mk III and III* rifles. The USA had also produced the .303 Pattern 1914, also known as the Rifle No 3 Mk 1 or 1*, for the British Government during WW1. The USA should therefore, along with Australia, India and the United Kingdom, be considered as one of the major producers of both .303 rifles and ammunition. Totaling about 3.5 million rifles over a period of 60+ years
Post by: luteai on October 08, 2011, 06:06:16 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255191992 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255191992)
Post by: Jekemi on October 11, 2011, 04:40:58 PM
In my humble opinion the best entry level rifle on the market; best overall value, is the Weatherby Vanguard Series 2. For Washington state the synthetic stock represents a wise investment due to the wet weather. However, you can get the Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 with a very nice wooden stock and Stainless Steel if you want. Sub MOA right out of the box. Extremely nice trigger, three position safety, great balance, silky smooth bolt, all for $500. Read the reviews; you can 't go wrong.
Post by: R9923 on October 13, 2011, 05:20:16 PM
Post by: Special T on October 14, 2011, 12:18:08 PM
Post by: Mike450r on October 14, 2011, 12:23:41 PM
I have been on the search of rthe artilce that i read on the 303 and cannot find it... It may be that i remebered the details wrong about it killing mass game in N america. It could have been that it it a top killing caliber of big game world wide due to the wide spread use through out the British Empire... Since i cannot find the info i guess i'm just blowing smoke... :bash:
I think I read the same article and recall it being a worldwide top caliber along with the .30-06 based on it's use in europe/asia/africa.
Post by: Jerbear on October 14, 2011, 02:47:41 PM
Post by: magnanimous_j on October 14, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
I find the Mattel Rifle, model 37009, with the bright orange thingy at the end of the barrel removed, to be an excellent weapon. Light weight, for easy carry, and very low recoil. Duct tape on a nice $19.95 Baraska scope and you got yourself a hunting package. Lots of benefits come with this package. You get to hunt alone, because no wants to be seen with you. Plus you don't have to worry about the gutting, skinning, cutting and wrapping with the model 37009. Plus for $10.95 you can get the optional bayonet and bayonet attachment. I hope this has been a service to those who are still undecided about what rifle they want to purchase.
Yes, but is it sub-MOA?
Post by: Jerbear on October 14, 2011, 03:33:51 PM
Mattel
Official
Arms.
Hope that helps ya.
Post by: bikerider on October 15, 2011, 10:01:32 PM
.
As far as guns go, I was considering Savage 110, Rem 700, or maybe Weatherby Vanguard.
What do you guys think?
I have a .243 Savage 110 that I use for Deer. The 110 is a good rifle that has worked out great for me.
Post by: Charlie on October 18, 2011, 01:56:25 PM
Quote
No fair asking tough questions. I will try to answer. I have no idea aboutn the sub part. But yes on the MOA.
Mattel
Official
Arms.
Hope that helps ya.
:chuckle:
Post by: Encore 280 on October 23, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Post by: Bofire on October 23, 2011, 10:11:55 AM
Carl
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 23, 2011, 10:33:57 AM
+ 1 on the used market. I have purchased two used, like new, rifles at great discount over new costs, and both had scopes mounted. The first was a 700 LSS Mountain Rifle (laminate, stainless) in .270 (my favorite) for about $700 in a retail store with a Bushnell 3200 elite 3-9X, and the second was a Ruger Mk II All Weather (synthetic, stainless) in .308 with a VXIII at the WAC show for the same cost. Both are fine rifles that would be suitable for the game you list.
That said, I have also heard good things about the HR/NEF single shot Handi-Rifles as far as reliability and accuracy goes. They are pretty affordable and have the added benefit of being able to have additional barrels fitted to the frame if you send the rifle to HR/NEF.
Post by: jamesjett on October 23, 2011, 07:42:06 PM
this is not the caliber for you....Its good mountain rifle and flat shooter if you decide to
hunt the high desert!
Post by: krism83 on October 24, 2011, 03:29:26 PM
Post by: ing on November 22, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
Post by: Greg Mullins on November 23, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 23, 2011, 02:57:46 PM
Post by: rasbo on November 23, 2011, 02:58:34 PM
Post by: wsucowboy on November 23, 2011, 03:46:56 PM
Post by: woodswalker on November 23, 2011, 07:05:35 PM
I use a Nosler 165 Solid Base (LONG out of print) or a Sierra 165 Game King. Work Just Fine. I'm working on building a 165 Barnes TTSX load or a Nosler Combined Technology or Accubond load to replace those...since i cant GET the Solid base anymore.
Get a 30-06 in an action you like and a stock that fits you...and practice. Reload so that you can practice MORE... :twocents: Find a load that hits where it looks and brew up a BUNCH of them...and PRACTICE. I use the 165s for everything, its a good compromise with weight and distance
Post by: gadwall on November 23, 2011, 10:06:39 PM
Post by: 2506 on November 27, 2011, 05:25:49 PM
Post by: magnanimous_j on November 29, 2011, 09:25:04 AM
Post by: JohnVH on November 29, 2011, 09:25:31 AM
Yes you will have to rezero your scope.
Post by: Special T on November 29, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
So out to 300 yards there is really not any significant difference. I have my 06 sited in with 165 grain so its a split the difference if i go up or down... But i usually shoot military ball at coyotes so i don't really care. :twocents:
Post by: magnanimous_j on November 29, 2011, 12:50:22 PM
I say it depends how far out you plan on shooting, If you look at the Remington balistic calculator and compare he long range dropp of a 125 grain bullet and a 180 grain at 300 yrds its 1.4 in, 400yrds there is only 2.5" diff and @500 a 4.5in diff
So out to 300 yards there is really not any significant difference. I have my 06 sited in with 165 grain so its a split the difference if i go up or down... But i usually shoot military ball at coyotes so i don't really care. :twocents:
Thanks for the reply. What about changing bullets? Say, going from an Accubond to a Core lokt, for example. I know guns like certain bullets better than others, but would a 165gr Remington be zeroed in for a 165gr Winchester?
Post by: Curly on November 29, 2011, 12:51:29 PM
Another Noob question: If you change bullets, say 165gr to 180gr, do you have to redial your scope?
Yes, you should always double check when you change bullets. That is one reason to just find a weight of bullet that you are comfortable shooting all game with.
For example, there is nothing wrong with shooting deer with a 180 gr bullet (or coyotes for that matter)........and 180 gr is a good choice for elk too, so I'd just find a load that the 30-06 likes in 180 gr and stick with it for everything. Now, if you can find a solid copper bullet (barnes tsx, or Nosler E-tip) that shoots well in the rifle, then you can get away with shooting lighter weight bullets like 150 gr or 165 gr and be fine on deer or elk. :twocents:
Post by: Special T on November 29, 2011, 05:33:20 PM
Post by: Hunting7mm on December 04, 2011, 08:21:09 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on December 04, 2011, 09:34:56 PM
I say it depends how far out you plan on shooting, If you look at the Remington balistic calculator and compare he long range dropp of a 125 grain bullet and a 180 grain at 300 yrds its 1.4 in, 400yrds there is only 2.5" diff and @500 a 4.5in diff
So out to 300 yards there is really not any significant difference. I have my 06 sited in with 165 grain so its a split the difference if i go up or down... But i usually shoot military ball at coyotes so i don't really care. :twocents:
Thanks for the reply. What about changing bullets? Say, going from an Accubond to a Core lokt, for example. I know guns like certain bullets better than others, but would a 165gr Remington be zeroed in for a 165gr Winchester?
Yes. So says a top authority on the topic: Maj. John Plaster, author of the widely acclaimed masterpiece "The Ultimate Sniper." When changing bullets, even in the same.grain weight, recheck your zero.