Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 08:18:50 AM
Post by: jstone on October 18, 2011, 09:21:30 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 18, 2011, 09:25:18 AM
(To Idaho, Montana, Ect...)
edit
I do know how dishearting it is to see what you explained. It makes a person sick.
Where wolves are hunting is no longer the way it has been all your days in the Field. They hunt/kill/slaughter 365 days per year. Nothing is the same where they are accept a wilderness void of life and as they explode they will distroy everything until it is gone and hopefully they will eventually starve and die or move into West Seattle. But don't worry, take up botany as i hear that is the new sport, looking for and identifying weeds.
Don't forget the Discovery Pass for it. :sas:
Post by: buckfvr on October 18, 2011, 10:10:08 AM
If you notice more coyotes, expect less fawn survival. Coyotes and bear seek out fawns relentlessly. I see maybe half the fawns here surviving the summer.....probably less. There are so many coyotes, they wake us up in the middle of the night....I have seen them chase fawns many times....I have watched does try to defend fawns as two or more coyotes try for a kill. Many times this goes on where you would end up in trouble if you shoot. I always shoot coyotes where I can..... if you care about your deer hunting, shoot coyotes on sight....its just one thing we can still do to try and make a difference.
As for the wolves, certainly they are a growing problem, and will need constant attention, but I fear our state politicians have too many IOU's out to the animal activists groups. We are being lied to and sold down the road.....
Post by: shanevg on October 18, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
Post by: Griz231 on October 18, 2011, 11:16:30 AM
I've hunted a weekend of archery, two weekends of muzzle, and one weekend so far for rifle and I haven't seen a legal buck yet. :bash: My buddy saw one opening day rifle, but that's it.
In that time, I've seen three bears, all big, never had a good shot at them and one had two cubs with her.
We will be back over on Thursday for the rest of rifle, i'll let you all know how we do, if we stick to the Methow. Might head up to the 204.
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 02:07:53 PM
Post by: Griz231 on October 18, 2011, 02:12:23 PM
I'll be back up there this weekend as well. My dad is there all week so hopefully he can find some. We hunted down low for half the time (where we usually see 20-30 deer) and saw nothing but a couple of yotes. We then moved up high to our other area and only saw a couple of does. I have heard the same thing from our local friends that there are far too many bears, yotes, cougars, and now wolves for the deer to thrive. It makes me sick. When I do go back next weekend, I may put my focus on the predator hunting instead.
I hear you there. I see any predators and they are dead!!! I'm heading up higher somehow, someway, somewhere.
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 02:15:34 PM
Post by: Griz231 on October 18, 2011, 02:30:46 PM
How high are you planning on going? I was up anywhere from 5400 ft - 6800 ft the last two days and saw a ton of moose sign and a few deer, but nothing legal.
Really?? Son of a *^@#$. That sucks. I was planning on going up that high and maybe trying to go up to the snow line. Not sure where.
We usually do pretty good there in Libby Creek, which is from 1800 to 4000 feet where we hunt. No good this year so far. Just don't think the deer are down yet.
???? I'm going crazy with this one. :bash:
Thought about heading east over to the 204 or maybe up to Conconully. Never hunted 204, but have done ok in past years up in Conconully.
Post by: huntnphool on October 18, 2011, 02:32:47 PM
This is what so many of us have been complaining about for several years. It matters very little how long our season is if it starts in early to mid October, 95% of the deer you are going to see are local deer, the migrators arive toward the end of Oct. typically.
Our WDFW guys know this, they set the season up with this in mind to limit the harvest. On any given year the deer numbers will change a little based on weather (snow) and the rut.
WDFW are in the year of the season setting process, if you look ahead to next years callendar you will see that there is a Saturday the 13th and a Saturday the 20th. If they keep the same BS 9 day general season, it will be interesting to see if they give us back the end of Oct. or push the season back even further to start on the 13th and run through the 21st. Since someone mentioned the other day that all WDFW are interested in is revenue and working for the wolves, my guess is they will bend us over and start it on the 13th.
Of course they may play politics and tell us they are hearing our complaints and tell us they are going to throw us a bone by making the season a couple days longer, then open the general on the 13th and close it in the middle of the week on Wednesday the 24th. This way they can say they are trying to please us while at the same time really doing us any favors. Again, its not how long the season is, its what time of year the season is. 9 days in the middle of the month will never produce the bucks that 9 days at the end of the month will.
Why have we not gotten our longer seasons, that go to the end of Oct., back now that the deer numbers have rebounded since the winter of the early 90's? :twocents:
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 02:36:42 PM
Huntnphool - I agree that the migratory bucks don't come till later, unless there's an early snow that pushes them down. I also agree that the young bucks are the ones that live down low and are the ones getting harvested. However, the dates and weather do not explain the fact that saw less than 1/5 of the amount of does that I normally see. This also does not explain why over half of the does had no yearlings.
Post by: huntnphool on October 18, 2011, 02:39:24 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 18, 2011, 02:44:51 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 02:53:52 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 18, 2011, 02:55:37 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 18, 2011, 02:57:40 PM
Post by: Deep Forks on October 19, 2011, 01:59:52 AM
There are plenty of does throughout the valley right now, most are on private land in the river bottoms.:yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on October 19, 2011, 05:20:04 AM
WHY?
Its called predator management, not just the wolves.
I've noticed an increase of deer staying in the valley. What does this do to fawn recruitment. Well half of them get hit by cars, and no they usually don't get added to the deer fatality counts. Its like smacking a little dog. Why are they staying in the valley. I can only speculate. Coyotes are afforded the same protection on private land. (some private land anyway. ;) )
A late season will increase your success but will decimate your older bucks. I've seen it many times, and although hunting the first week of November is AWESOME, its not what should happen. We are just recovering from the last time they had a late season. It took about 5 years. A whole age class of bucks was WHIPED out. Essentially bad luck with a late October season and inclement weather and early migration. Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will. Thats ok though.
I have had lots of time in the valley to think about it. :chuckle: The population of deer in the valley isn't near what it could or should be.
Post by: Guy on October 19, 2011, 05:41:32 AM
Meanwhile, I'll keep putting in for those November rut hunts... :tup:
Post by: boneaddict on October 19, 2011, 06:24:03 AM
Quote
I think Deer management has lost ground, many herds are at a fraction of former numbers and steadily declining. The combination of high predator numbers, liberal tag sales, poaching, tribal hunting, hard winters, and loss of winter range has compounded the negative factors for a devastating effect on deer numbers in many areas
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 19, 2011, 09:09:44 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 19, 2011, 09:38:06 AM
Also, I hope they keep the shorter season towards the middle of October instead of the end of October. A few years back when they extended the season to 2 full weeks, deer slaughters occured. This isn't the 80's when the season ran into the middle of November. These deer have adapted to our shorter, earlier seasons. When, back in the day, could you go count 30+ bucks in a single day in the first part of November? You couldn't. We were lucky to see a buck a day. Everybody (most) wants to harvest a big buck during the general, but in these days if WDFW pushes the season back, it will devistate the herds. :twocents: There are plenty of nice bucks out there right now. You just have to work for them.
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 19, 2011, 09:52:18 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 19, 2011, 11:23:57 AM
Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will. Thats ok though.
Well we both agree on this. ;) :chuckle:
I also agree the numbers are not what they could or should be but they are significantly better than the year following the hard winter of the early 90's.
Whats funny is how many don't believe it when WDFW says the deer numbers are good, but they do believe WDFW when they say wolves won't have an impact on the herds and although "translocation" is written into the proposed wolf plan, "it won't be used" :chuckle:
Post by: MtnMuley on October 19, 2011, 11:45:19 AM
The herds have already been devastated. I've been hunting there for over 12 years and my dad for 25, and this year we have seen fewer deer than ever. This is not just a coincidence. And obviously you have to work hard to get into good bucks, but that is always the case. It is definitely harder to do that, though, when the deer numbers are down. I don't believe Fitkin. Just looking at the tally on Highway 153 shows me that less deer have been hit this year as well. The deer numbers are definitely down, and the fact that far less does have yearlings this year is proof of that.
First off, the herds have not been devistated. Numbers aren't as good as should be in my opinion, but they're definately not devistated. Deer adapt to what they're subject to -- wolves, other increased predator populations, poaching, land development, etc. Also, the Fitkin comment was a joke, like the man.
Phool and I have always disagreed on that, and probably always will. Thats ok though.
Whats funny is how many don't believe it when WDFW says the deer numbers are good, but they do believe WDFW when they say wolves won't have an impact on the herds and although "translocation" is written into the proposed wolf plan, "it won't be used" :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on October 19, 2011, 12:15:41 PM
Also, the Fitkin comment was a joke, like the man.Quote from: link=topic=85525.msg1072065#msg1072065 date=1319043138Quote from: link=topic=85525.msg1072165#msg1072165 date=1319048637Quote from: link=topic=85525.msg1071763#msg1071763 date=1319026804
LMAO :chuckle:
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 19, 2011, 01:00:56 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 19, 2011, 03:49:34 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 19, 2011, 03:53:44 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 19, 2011, 03:56:15 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 19, 2011, 04:47:32 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 19, 2011, 05:00:16 PM
They fawn survival rate hasn't been low at all the past couple years that I am aware of. Seeing more sets of twins than ever. :dunno:
+1
Post by: boneaddict on October 19, 2011, 05:33:06 PM
Quote
Certain areas are definately lower than others, but other areas are doing as well as I've seen.
Could that possibly be caused by where the particular pack might be. Pack being singular of course because there is only one up there right. :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on October 19, 2011, 05:44:35 PM
Could that possibly be caused by where the particular pack might be. Pack being singular of course because there is only one up there right. :chuckle:Quote
But I thought the "pack" was down to two individules, I was amazed how much howling noise the two of them can make, sure sounded like more than two this past weekend. :rolleyes:
Post by: boneaddict on October 19, 2011, 06:30:26 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 19, 2011, 09:55:00 PM
They certaily earn the mystic critter award becasue its amazing how they can be at 5 places at once or travel that fast....... :bash:
Agreed!!! :chuckle:
Post by: 500 long on October 19, 2011, 10:03:58 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 20, 2011, 05:43:57 AM
The valley floor permits......
I'm not a big proponent of doe tags, but I could at least see what they were doing. The pressure would supposedly get them back on the hill versus being in the middle of the hiway so to speak.
Post by: Elkrunner on October 20, 2011, 10:04:03 AM
Post by: NateR on October 20, 2011, 03:18:36 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 20, 2011, 03:58:46 PM
Post by: rickomatic on October 20, 2011, 05:04:48 PM
Not to be politically incorrect, but we were told by 2 different locals that deer are being shot all year round by certain ethnic orchard workers. They said they're taking a LOT of deer. WDFW is spread pretty thin and can't come to all calls of late night, or midday springtime orchard shooting. Even if they do, by the time they get there, the perps are gone.
Post by: huntnphool on October 21, 2011, 04:35:29 PM
Post by: lilshootergirl on October 21, 2011, 05:23:46 PM
Post by: cougfan79 on October 21, 2011, 06:37:29 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on October 21, 2011, 08:45:12 PM
Post by: Co on October 21, 2011, 10:02:55 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 22, 2011, 07:50:13 AM
Post by: vfilbert on October 22, 2011, 06:52:00 PM
Post by: mulehunter on October 22, 2011, 07:07:42 PM
Mulehunter
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 24, 2011, 08:14:52 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 24, 2011, 09:22:57 AM
I was seeing 40+ deer a day with little problem and very few of the doe were without fawns. The deer were spread out all over the place so you had to do a lot of glassing. Its amazing how much forage there is, its very green and abundant. I think this is part of the reason the deer are not localized in certain areas like most are used to. They don't have to be feeding in the typical areas with the amount of forage spread out over such a large area.
I'll be back over in a couple weeks helping a couple friends with late tags and taking pictures, should be a banner year for late hunt tag holders.
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2011, 09:34:18 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2011, 09:35:02 AM
Post by: BGhunter on October 24, 2011, 09:45:10 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2011, 09:49:29 AM
Quote
But what do I know, fish and game says the population is not in a decline and it is just the same as it was years ago.
Thats why I made a crack at Fitkin. Essentially his article in the Methow Valley news last year. It was nothing but PROPAGANDA. It was so full of crap I had to flush the paper, it wasn't worth whiping for the second time. His population announcements were total BS. Lost ALL credibility with me. Someone obviously isn't spending much time out from behind the desk. Maybe put the cellphone down for a second and take a gander on the hill. Its not rocket science folks.
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 24, 2011, 10:19:50 AM
Question for anyone that has an answer (Bone or Huntnphool maybe): I was hunting French Creek and heard several wolves howling down in the canyon several different days. Is somebody raising hybrids down there or is this an actual pack? They were most definitely wolf howls and not dog or coyote, but I was surprised at how close the howls were in reference to the residences there in French Creek...
Post by: huntnphool on October 24, 2011, 10:41:18 AM
I also saw a monster on Sunday, but was unable to get an ethical shot. One of the top two biggest bucks I have ever seen.
Question for anyone that has an answer (Bone or Huntnphool maybe): I was hunting French Creek and heard several wolves howling down in the canyon several different days. Is somebody raising hybrids down there or is this an actual pack? They were most definitely wolf howls and not dog or coyote, but I was surprised at how close the howls were in reference to the residences there in French Creek...
Silly man, there is only one pack in the Methow and that's the "lookout pack", and that pack is without a breeding female. :chuckle:
The "two" that are left were sure singing up a storm each morning at about 7:00 am though
Post by: mkcj on October 24, 2011, 10:53:40 AM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 24, 2011, 11:08:30 AM
I also saw a monster on Sunday, but was unable to get an ethical shot. One of the top two biggest bucks I have ever seen.
Question for anyone that has an answer (Bone or Huntnphool maybe): I was hunting French Creek and heard several wolves howling down in the canyon several different days. Is somebody raising hybrids down there or is this an actual pack? They were most definitely wolf howls and not dog or coyote, but I was surprised at how close the howls were in reference to the residences there in French Creek...
Silly man, there is only one pack in the Methow and that's the "lookout pack", and that pack is without a breeding female. :chuckle:
The "two" that are left were sure singing up a storm each morning at about 7:00 am though
I know, those two sure seem to get around. They've been known to roam Gold Creek, Libby Creek, French Creek, Benson Creek, Yockey Creek, Beaver Creek, Twisp River Road, and all of the surrounding areas. They have even figured how to be in multiple places at once and know how to sound like they're actually 10 different wolves.
Post by: huntnphool on October 24, 2011, 01:52:36 PM
I know, those two sure seem to get around. They've been known to roam Gold Creek, Libby Creek, French Creek, Benson Creek, Yockey Creek, Beaver Creek, Twisp River Road, and all of the surrounding areas. They have even figured how to be in multiple places at once and know how to sound like they're actually 10 different wolves.
LMAO, figment of your imagination is all. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2011, 02:01:08 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 24, 2011, 02:24:23 PM
Post by: CavemantheHunter on October 24, 2011, 02:24:26 PM
On a serious note: I spoke with at least five different hunters who were hunting different areas and found the remains of several deer carcasses that had been devoured, including 3 nice bucks. Unless they were wounded deer from the bow season that weren't found, they were killed by predators. I suspect either cats or wolves, but after hearing those two teleporting wolves, I am inclined to believe that they're the culprits.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 25, 2011, 06:08:45 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2011, 06:10:35 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 25, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
Post by: woodswalker on October 25, 2011, 01:05:41 PM
The OTHER thing i saw that concerned me was that some of the 2-points i saw were BIG deer...and heavy bodied with heavy and TALL racks. Including the one with the white scar on his R shoulder...I saw him 3 years ago...and he was a 2-=point THEN... Makes me wonder if we are inadvertently selecting for the genetics for 2 points.
I CAN vouch that the weather was WAY too nice most of the time...nothing to push the migrators. I dug out my old tags and took a look...most of my deer there, with 2 exceptions, were taken in the last 4-7 days of the season. The Photos have snow or heavy frost in most of them. This short season in the EARLY part is also making it difficult as the only deer about are the locals. I'm going to try to find my old manuals and see when the seasons were reduced.
Post by: Chadrick60 on October 25, 2011, 06:04:28 PM
By the way anyone else see that Subaru wagon flying up and down the gravel roads near Pearrygin? Never seen them wearing orange and it seemed they were just being inconsiderate :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on October 25, 2011, 11:05:56 PM
By the way anyone else see that Subaru wagon flying up and down the gravel roads near Pearrygin? Never seen them wearing orange and it seemed they were just being inconsiderate :twocents:
I saw a couple women riding 1950's style bicycles ringing their handle bar mounted bells the whole way down the two track, obviously doing their best to make noise and push deer away.
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2011, 05:15:50 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 26, 2011, 05:44:45 AM
Post by: mazama on October 26, 2011, 09:55:27 AM
Post by: Threebyfour on October 26, 2011, 06:03:29 PM
Post by: MAVsled on October 26, 2011, 06:09:07 PM
hunted in the 4000-6000 elevation. Saw a few does (the same groups day after day) and several 2 points.
two shooter bucks but to far off in the distance and couldn't close to within range.
But even the does were up high, higher elevation than the usual for us.
the last 3 years, we are seeing far less deer in our long time hunting area.
Post by: davew on October 26, 2011, 07:51:08 PM
I have been seeing a fair number of deer around my cabin, but not the big herds in the alfalfa fields like other years.
Everything is still really green, so the game could easily be anywhere taking advantage of all the forage. I think we'll have a better idea of the size of the deer herd in a month or so when everything turns white.
Post by: ghosthunter on October 26, 2011, 08:14:59 PM
Post by: Chadrick60 on October 26, 2011, 10:20:55 PM