Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: 87Ford on October 18, 2011, 02:30:16 PM

Title: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: 87Ford on October 18, 2011, 02:30:16 PM: My young 2 year old Black Lab is now pointing pheasants. I wasn’t sure until this weekend hunting over in eastern Wash. Now I’m convinced! He started doing it last week when I had him over at Cooke Canyon on some released birds. I was with a friend and we bought 14 hen pheasants to give him lots of work before the opener this last weekend.

The birds we hunted at Cooke Canyon were hobbled so that they couldn’t run. They flush and fly just fine though. Anyway, it was on the fourth or fifth bird that I noticed my dog hesitate and sort of point, then charge in and flush the bird. I mentioned to my buddy that it looked like a point. Then, a couple birds later he did it again only he held the point longer. I couldn’t believe it. I’ve heard Labs sometimes have some natural point in them, but I was still surprised to see my dog do it. I certainly didn’t buy him as a pointing Lab.

Then this last weekend he did it again on some wild birds. He still gets hot and gets after them and flushes them if they’re moving, but if we’re in heavy cover and the bird holds he points.

What really convinced me was the last bird he pointed. We were working our way towards the back of a field and my dog, Coal, was hot and frantically working a bird. Then, boom, he wheels around and locks up. At this point I’m still not convinced, but I approach the dog thinking there “could” be a bird. As I’m approaching him, I’m talking to him saying, “Coal, that’s a really nice point” and “Coal, you’re a real stud” Then, suddenly I big rooster flushes, I shoot it, my dog retrieves it and I have a pointing Lab. Needless to say I’m pleasantly surprised. :)

Here’s a picture of him NOT pointing, but sniffing around the evening before the opener…
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 18, 2011, 03:54:32 PM: Lots of retrievers have the same response. As you said, it is a hesitation. Bert Carlson had trained labs to point long before anyone else had ever "invented" a pointing lab. If a bird is scented, they will often hold up for a second to use their other senses. This is the hesitation you see. There are some labs which have staunch points in my mind but, most of them are "trained" responses not unlike sitting to a whistle. Labs can be taught a whistle sit which is as staunch as any of the strongest points by a pointer in my opinion. This is also true of bomb sniffing dogs. They are taught to freeze the second they detect something. The point in a lab has little difference.

In well bred pointing labs, they have been bred specifically to cross the dogs with that strong hesitation. Roosters have to stop to hear. Dogs have to stop to hear....cat and mouse game with the birds vs. dogs.

My Chessie will hesistate if she picks up a real strong scent for a moment to listen for movement. They can't hear in cover when they are crashing around. Keep reinforcing the stop on a check cord with a whoa command with live birds. You can keep that hesitation and start controlling the reaction of the dog. It is nice to give you a moment to catch up with a ranging dog if they'll do it consistently.
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: wildweeds on October 18, 2011, 05:40:31 PM: pointers are not TRAINED TO POINT
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 18, 2011, 05:57:36 PM: Quote from: wildweeds on October 18, 2011, 05:40:31 PM
pointers are not TRAINED TO POINT

speaking on "some" dogs which do not have a natural point such as many labs.
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 18, 2011, 06:00:14 PM: Quote from: wildweeds on October 18, 2011, 05:40:31 PM
pointers are not TRAINED TO POINT

also, labs are not pointers. They are retrievers obviously which falls into a flushing breed. You know that...just like i know pointers aren't trained to point. Everything else is trained around the point.
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: NW-GSP on October 18, 2011, 06:03:07 PM: Quote from: wildweeds on October 18, 2011, 05:40:31 PM
pointers are not TRAINED TO POINT

It is instinct but it also takes training, not all pointing breeds will point and even the ones that do require training.

I guarantee that this guys lab could be whoa trained and it would consistently point just the same as a pointing breed
Title: Re: My Black Lab points!?!
Post by: 87Ford on October 18, 2011, 06:04:59 PM: Thank you for the info Happy. What you say makes sense to me. This is the fourth Labrador I've had over the years, but the first one to demonstrate this hesitation. I like it and it does give a chance to catch up a little. This dog does like to range. There were a few times that he pointed or hesitated, but there was no bird. It must have been very strong scent in those instances because after the hesitation he continued on hunting and eventually flushed the bird. I hope he continues this pointing or "hesitation". It's really fun to watch and hunt behind.