Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 08:18:28 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on October 24, 2011, 08:22:06 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 24, 2011, 08:34:47 AM
Post by: Huntbear on October 24, 2011, 08:40:40 AM
However, once in a while a bonded bullet will separate from the core.. nature of the beast. I love my partitions, however, we are slowly switching over to accubonds for everything. They fly better, and still perform fantastically.
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 09:03:56 AM
Here is a top view showing the separation.
Post by: Yak-NDN on October 24, 2011, 09:07:59 AM
That is not normally what I have seen out of partitions. Normally you get a very nice mushroom folding back over the base of the bullet. Even after going through an elk shoulder.
However, once in a while a bonded bullet will separate from the core.. nature of the beast. I love my partitions, however, we are slowly switching over to accubonds for everything. They fly better, and still perform fantastically.
accubond all the way.
Post by: whacker1 on October 24, 2011, 09:09:30 AM
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 09:18:18 AM
Some folks like partitions, but I don't. I prefer the Accubond if the gun likes it. My .270 loves the accubond, my 300 rum does not. The accubond would have retained much more of its weight. Where are the pics of the buck?
I like the accubond too. I shoot the 140 Accubond with my .270win. I have never found a bullet as they have all exited cleanly. Guess I will get some Accubonds for my wifes rifle, and give them a try! Buck pictures and stories are coming. So far, the immediate family has 5 out of 6 bucks tagged. Firefighter4607's Dad is still looking for "the one". I will get a hold of FF4607 and try to get a story started soon. We had an outstanding year even with deer sighting numbers down for us. 3 of 5 hunters harvested their biggest bucks to date.
Post by: whacker1 on October 24, 2011, 09:21:10 AM
Some folks like partitions, but I don't. I prefer the Accubond if the gun likes it. My .270 loves the accubond, my 300 rum does not. The accubond would have retained much more of its weight. Where are the pics of the buck?
I like the accubond too. I shoot the 140 Accubond with my .270win. I have never found a bullet as they have all exited cleanly. Guess I will get some Accubonds for my wifes rifle, and give them a try! Buck pictures and stories are coming. So far, the immediate family has 5 out of 6 bucks tagged. Firefighter4607's Dad is still looking for "the one". I will get a hold of FF4607 and try to get a story started soon. We had an outstanding year even with deer sighting numbers down for us. 3 of 5 hunters harvested their biggest bucks to date.
I recovered an accubond that I shot in a mule deer in 2007. Texas Heart shot. It retained somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of its weight. I wrote it down, but can't recall off hand right now.
Post by: PA BEN on October 24, 2011, 09:56:39 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F100_3922.jpg&hash=28e022dd3c8be4ab9819ed6a03663481767ea439)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F100_3923.jpg&hash=df394b4c3e30ac7d1dae244dbfc8352835d944e8)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F100_3925.jpg&hash=d49b35a76daf6a44eefc67845115c6a498dd7645)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F100_3926.jpg&hash=ffc127036b68051e870056d1634d1fd28b0a1758)
Post by: thinkingman on October 24, 2011, 12:28:03 PM
I can't tell from the second pic, but those look like empty jackets.
Did you weigh the recovered bullets?
They don't look like the Nosler marketing materials.
I like Swift A-Frames and Barnes TSX's.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 24, 2011, 12:50:33 PM
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 12:54:43 PM
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 12:59:09 PM
Post by: Curly on October 24, 2011, 01:17:55 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 24, 2011, 01:22:22 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 24, 2011, 02:38:50 PM
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 02:56:00 PM
Read the intro to the nosler reloading manual. You aren't the first to question a bullets performance with the critter in the freezer ; )
:yeah: Point taken, meat is in the freezer x2. When you advertise "Introduced in 1948, the Nosler Partition Bullet is the standard by which all others are measured.", and put a bunch of nice mushroom pics at various velocities, I expect better. My family has used Partitions a bunch through out the years on deer and elk, and they have always worked well. These two bullets have me scratching my head.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 24, 2011, 03:53:19 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 24, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
Post by: C-Money on October 24, 2011, 05:03:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 24, 2011, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: Rick on October 24, 2011, 05:47:03 PM
accubond all the way.
Wrong answer. I used a 165gr Accubond from my '06 to kill a cow last season. The bullet looked EXACTLY like the lower Partition in the first pic. No mushroom at all,and it looked like the bullet was cut in half.
She only went about 40yds and piled up with shredded lungs,but the Accubond performance certainly didn't fill me with confidence.
Post by: Atroxus on October 24, 2011, 06:07:23 PM
Post by: wadu1 on October 24, 2011, 06:24:57 PM
id say those failed I've had good luck with accubonds. an grand slams an trophy. bonded bear claws also sirrocos in my 7mm an the barnes x are terribleI have had 4 neat little holes on both sides of a blacktail with Noslers in .30 and .270 (same deer). Then switched to Grand Slams but did not get the groupings I wanted, but they took down game. Four years ago I tryed Barns TSX, my groups closed up and every animal droped like a tone of bricks; all were through and throughs all .30's 06 & 308.
:twocents:
Post by: demontang on October 25, 2011, 07:49:19 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw131%2Fdemontang%2F100_2113.jpg&hash=0e59f52a4ff36c268af47ba238102225c8608756)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw131%2Fdemontang%2F100_2112.jpg&hash=4265249147af3e62fb276fc6c35108fb246c0124)
Both bullets are .338 200gr bullets and put in to deer at around 150yds both traveled quartering away through the ribs/vitals and hit the of side leg bones. And they where load up to about 2980mv. i have a 225gr accubond from by bear also that looks the same and a few mor bt too.
Post by: whacker1 on October 25, 2011, 11:02:48 AM
Post by: C-Money on October 25, 2011, 11:20:05 AM
Post by: demontang on October 25, 2011, 12:03:35 PM
Post by: Curly on October 25, 2011, 12:30:35 PM
Trust me, I hear all your words about the buck being dead. The 140gr partition from the 7mm-08 droped him in his tracks, Dead as dead can get. I wish they held together is all. MRS C-Money will be elk hunting with the same load, and sure want the bullet to mushroom , hold together and drive deep. I hope you folks understand what I am getting at, two bucks are dead, they both dropped like a sack of potatoes, and we are very excited people to have harvested two bucks. I am just not sold that the extra money is well spent to buy a box of 50 Nosler Partitions vs buying a box of 100 Hornanday interlocks for the same money. I found my 150 Interlock from my 30-06 in my spike bull a few years back, it held together, mushroomed fine, bull went a few more steps before I watched him fall over.
I've never understood the Nosler Partition lovefest....... I always read where they are designed to come apart, so I don't think the bullets failed; they probably performed just like Nosler had envisioned.
I agree with you that the Interlock is a better bullet. I also think the Speer Grand Slam is equally as good as the partition. :peep:
Post by: huntnphool on October 25, 2011, 01:12:09 PM
My brother and I are using the partions next month in Montana as well, our typically go through but if we can get them I'll post them for you too.
Post by: C-Money on October 25, 2011, 01:57:54 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 25, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Thanks Phool, that will be interesting to compare. I my wife get a shot at a spike, I guess I will not worry about it, I still thik the Partition will work. Hope we find out! :)
No problem, I'm shooting a 7mm and have yet to not pop a hole all the way through but my brother is shooting a 100gr. .243 partition while my daughters is a light load 7mm-08, my brother regularly gets his bullet back and I'm better my dauhgter will too if she is fortunate enough to tag something.
I have never had to hit an animal twice with one so to this point I am pretty happy with them, as several others have said, dead is dead. :dunno:
Post by: Atroxus on October 25, 2011, 02:36:12 PM
Trust me, I hear all your words about the buck being dead. The 140gr partition from the 7mm-08 droped him in his tracks, Dead as dead can get. I wish they held together is all. MRS C-Money will be elk hunting with the same load, and sure want the bullet to mushroom , hold together and drive deep. I hope you folks understand what I am getting at, two bucks are dead, they both dropped like a sack of potatoes, and we are very excited people to have harvested two bucks. I am just not sold that the extra money is well spent to buy a box of 50 Nosler Partitions vs buying a box of 100 Hornanday interlocks for the same money. I found my 150 Interlock from my 30-06 in my spike bull a few years back, it held together, mushroomed fine, bull went a few more steps before I watched him fall over.
So the partition killed the animals faster, but you want a bullet that looks better when recovered and allows the animal to stagger a few more steps before it dies? This is what confuses me.
Post by: C-Money on October 25, 2011, 03:51:04 PM
Post by: Atroxus on October 25, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
Atroxus, I do not think I can make it any more clearer than in my last post. Sorry I failed to make what I am getting at understandable. I think I am gonna drop the subject as I dont see why to continue. :hello:
Oh my bad, I think I missed your latest post when I clicked reply.
Post by: Curly on October 25, 2011, 04:12:44 PM
Here is a quote from the article:
Quote
whilst the Nosler Partition bullet, especially when encountering heavy resistance within the animal, will be found with only the rear section of the partition remaining.
Logically speaking the question should be asked how soon the expanded front section of the bullet is lost. Ideally one would expect the bullet to keep its expanded front section for most of its path through the animal, thus delivering a large wound channel.
The website in the link has quite a few pics of recovered bullets.
Post by: C-Money on October 25, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
Post by: C-Money on October 25, 2011, 04:43:55 PM
Post by: Guy on October 25, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
The rear portion usually hangs together nicely, like yours did. The front tends to either expand nicely into a classic mushroom, or quite often expands, then comes apart inside the animal inflicting a lot of damage while doing so. The front of the Nosler Partition is normally pretty "soft" and expands very rapidly in most cases.
Interestingly, Nosler changes the location of the Partition depending on the anticipated use of the bullet. Bullets designed for deer hunting typically have the partition fairly well back, with a lot of "front" section avail to expand. Heavier Partitions designed for bigger game have the partition farther forward in the bullet, for less expansion and a longer/heavier rear section for deep penetration.
I like the way they work, and am impressed with their accuracy as well. Have also started using the Accubond, last year, and it too delivered impressive performance - although again - I failed to recover it as it went right on through the bear I shot.
I'm happy with most of the bullets on the market now. We're living and hunting in a time of tremendous availability of various different bullets for hunting. Many, many good choices exist. I am though, a pretty well confirmed user of Noslers in most cases, though I've tried quite a few different bullets over the years.
Regards, Guy
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on October 25, 2011, 08:32:15 PM
Post by: Guy on October 25, 2011, 08:59:59 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi87.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk129%2FGuyMiner%2FLoading%2FIMG_4783.jpg&hash=7700d9fbe064cfbfe3521fd2ca9e3fe51fcf793d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi87.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk129%2FGuyMiner%2FLoading%2FIMG_4787.jpg&hash=26d117c189de5a248deea093b7128952d0d55df2)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi87.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk129%2FGuyMiner%2FLoading%2FIMG_4786.jpg&hash=61168326d79c42918f264584c74bc831d3e07e1f)
Post by: C-Money on October 27, 2011, 08:33:53 AM
Post by: ducksoup on December 12, 2011, 10:03:27 PM
Post by: hillbilli on December 13, 2011, 07:02:38 AM
Post by: Encore 280 on December 13, 2011, 08:27:06 AM
Post by: Guy on December 14, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
Guy
Post by: C-Money on December 14, 2011, 11:06:19 AM
Post by: Gutpile on December 30, 2011, 12:48:41 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 05:43:15 AM
Recovered from a Eastern WA Mulie, just under the hide on the off side. 150gr Accubond/ .300 WSM 71gr of H4350. A little over 370 yards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FDSC02242.jpg&hash=a6d25e12a2a898dc1d645487a96fd860ac1108ed)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FDSC02243.jpg&hash=4e44ae63af6d2137c121c159f470a1e89b190438)
Recovered from a Eastern WA Mulie, down hill head on shot. Hit the center of the chest and it was recovered just under the hide on the under side just ahead of the pelvic bone. 260gr Accubond, .375 Ultra Magnum, 102gr IMR 7828, 560 yards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FDSC01103.jpg&hash=48e3cfae75dcafbd4c28ce144d4e456c4a7cc391)
Post by: Gutpile on December 30, 2011, 09:04:21 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on December 30, 2011, 09:34:59 AM
id say those failed I've had good luck with accubonds. an grand slams an trophy. bonded bear claws also sirrocos in my 7mm an the barnes x are terribleFour years ago I tryed Barns TSX, my groups closed up and every animal droped like a tone of bricks; all were through and throughs all .30's 06 & 308.
:twocents:
I've had the same experience. Not sure how anyone could say barnes x are terrible... unless they just don't shoot well out of their rifle which happens. I have never shot an animal that didn't die with a well placed rifle shot, no matter what bullet. I recovered 3 barnes bullets last year 2 from a bull elk, both were right under the hide on the opposite shoulder, and one from a deer that was quartering strong towards me went in at the brisket and was found against the hide behind the opposite shoulder (this was a long shot otherwise it would have easily passed through), all 3 bullets were perfect mushrooms besides one from the elk that had a broken pedal. I just like to pick a manufacturer and stick with it, I've had great customer support through barnes and I believe in their products, plus they usually cause a lot of devastation which I like :tup:
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 10:49:32 AM
I love the Barnes bullets. near 100% weight retention and seemingly perfect expansion on every bullet I have recovered-even those recovered embedded in the spine.
As much as I love Barnes, I am moving away from them and going with the Cutting edge bullets. They are amazing. Fantastic straight line penetration. In the smaller bore rifles like .308 and .338 they make a cool bullet called the ESP Raptor. It is a bullet system. The Bullet is reversible. you can load it one way, and it is a solid. Reverse the bullet and it is hollow point. if you want to improve the BC for a longer range shot, snap in the ballistic tip.
These are solid brass bullets, and ironically, they are designed to "fail" by coming apart. at 2-3 inches of penetration, the hollow point petals shear off. This frees up the solid core to penetrate in a straight line, while the petals continue out in a star like pattern causing massive trauma. Folks in the Midwest are taking white tails with 223 WSSM versions of this bullet. The are falling DRT with complete penetration from a 55 grain bullet and a 1.5 inch wide wound channel. pretty amazing.
Here are some test results I stole (with permission) from another site. Shooting into wet newpaper. (add about 30-50% to the penetration depth for live tissue).
Note that the Barnes bullet is heavier, and faster, but had the same penetration depth as the .223 Remington (800 fps slower and 7 grains lighter)
Also note the star pattern the petals make in the paper.
I have had excellent experiences with these bullets on the range and in the field.
Post by: Curly on December 30, 2011, 11:57:58 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 12:54:36 PM
I've been shooting the CEB BBW#13 Non Conventional hollow points with the high BC polymer tips in my big bores. They are the only bullet out there that has a higher BC and a bullet weight choice in .458 diameter, from 285gr-500gr. I can really get some speed on a 285gr polymer tipped hollow point for deer and elk and distance or I can shoot down alien air ships with the 500's
In my 450 Ultra Magnum I settled on the 370gr BBW#13 Non Con tipped. It is not uncommon to print 1" groups with them at 200 yards. I currently have some custom work being done to my 450 Ultra. At Kampfeld Custom. As soon as I get it back I have a bunch of the .458 tipped 285gr BBW13 non cons to test, I will use that load untill the 300gr Raptors finish being tested.
Here are some pics of the 370gr CEB BBW13 non cons during testing and zeroing of my wildcat 450 Ultra Magnum this last fall.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-35.jpg&hash=a77c8a984b2eb3cb9382240032ec266d1a49ee49)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto1-14.jpg&hash=25528925d9b7ca0357c8a6597d94dae35c083fcc)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_3937.jpg&hash=bb9462eb997374947b97256fa9554fc3d5658de6)
Left: 450 Ultra Mag w/ CEB BBW13 Tipped Non Con. RIGHT: 500 Jeffery for comparison.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-34.jpg&hash=c556c69889aee456ba9dc489740cdc9064c33946)
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 01:39:20 PM
They have 4 medium bore bullets in the ESP Raptor for sale right now. I have 3 of these in my cabinet ready for loading. They have .243, .308, .338, .375.
I talked to Dan from CEB back in September and talked him into sending me some of the .224 BBW#13's. My 22.250 hated them due to the slow 1:14 twist and the 55 grain bullet. However my 223 WSSM loved them.
I plan to use the .458 BBW#13 Solid/NonCon combo for Buff in Zim this coming October. Can't wait to see how they perform!
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 01:42:57 PM
But Rob, the Barnes makes a much prettier picture. :)
Depends on what you are taking a photo of I guess!
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 01:48:11 PM
We need to get together sometime and shoot some big bores!
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
Bighammer:
We need to get together sometime and shoot some big bores!
Sounds like a good time, I'm going to build me a 9.3 B&M before this next fall if I can fit it in. I have 3 other reamers that need to be spun first. What twist did they suggest for the .224's?
Post by: Curly on December 30, 2011, 01:58:29 PM
But Rob, the Barnes makes a much prettier picture. :)
Depends on what you are taking a photo of I guess!
:tup:
So that hole must be from the CED bullet out of your .223? Pretty cool. 8)
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
But Rob, the Barnes makes a much prettier picture. :)
Depends on what you are taking a photo of I guess!
:tup:
So that hole must be from the CED bullet out of your .223? Pretty cool. 8)
No, he said the .224's wouldn't shoot out of his 14 twist.
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 03:50:03 PM
little bit bigger than a 223, but an exit hole that is 8x the diameter of the bullet is not to shabby!
They would not shoot out of my 22.250 due to the twist, but shot really well out of my 223WSSM. Thats OK, .243 is the legal minimum in WY for pronghorn anyway.
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 04:20:50 PM
Thats a 3 inch hole after neck a pass through from a little over 100 yards with a 375 HH CEB BBW#13.
little bit bigger than a 223, but an exit hole that is 8x the diameter of the bullet is not to shabby!
They would not shoot out of my 22.250 due to the twist, but shot really well out of my 223WSSM. Thats OK, .243 is the legal minimum in WY for pronghorn anyway.
How have the other Raptors shot for you?
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2011, 07:25:18 PM
As soon as I get some time I plan to load up some 338 WM, and 375 HH Raptors. Ironically I don't really have much in 30 cal. so I am not sure what I will load up with the 308 raptors. I suppose I could do a load 30/30-according to the guys on AR, the Raptors turn the 30/30 into a whole new rifle.
(again, photos are from Michael458 on the Accurate reolading forum)
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 30, 2011, 08:39:24 PM