Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 03:22:43 PM
Post by: deadwoodbuck on October 24, 2011, 03:26:27 PM
Post by: smitty8202 on October 24, 2011, 03:29:57 PM
Post by: Thwack on October 24, 2011, 03:30:17 PM
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 03:34:16 PM
Post by: wastickflinger on October 24, 2011, 03:36:19 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on October 24, 2011, 03:44:19 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2011, 03:47:22 PM
looks like a muley that ended up on the wrong side of the crest trail. Hope he took pics of the tail if it is a legit blacktail, it would be unreal!
Right. That thing is about a mile from being a mule deer where it was killed I bet. Someone else just posted that pic in the 2011 Bucks thread. Said it was his buddy's buck if I recall. It's a beautiful buck and I don't care where it was killed, I'd love to kill a buck like that. Congrats huige to the hunter, whoever you are.
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 03:48:45 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 24, 2011, 03:50:37 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2011, 03:52:34 PM
Its a blacktail
Says who?
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 03:54:58 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2011, 03:58:14 PM
Agreed Jakelope Its a beautiful buck Muley or blacktail, but its a blacktail
Oh ok.
I think that that buck could turn west and be a blacktail or turn east and be a muley from where he was. It's a blacktail because of where it was killed I guess, right? So we'll call it a blacktail geographically? But if he turned the other way then someone would have killed a smoker muley buck?
Whats the B/C boundary?
Whats to stop a mule deer from leaving the high country to the west instead of to the east? Thats my question. I'm open to logical explanations. Are they like salmon?
P.S. I'm trying to have a logical discussion about why this particular buck is a blacktail and not a mule deer. I'm not trying to start a pissing match at all.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 24, 2011, 03:59:24 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 24, 2011, 04:01:59 PM
Again, great buck. Congrats to the hunter.
Post by: Helix on October 24, 2011, 04:03:46 PM
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 04:06:52 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2011, 04:12:02 PM
It only matters for the BOOK. I don't think anyone on this site would not take this buck if it where 1 inch over the line to the east :yeah:
Thats not at all what we're saying.
As far as the BOOK goes, is it a blacktail by Boone and Crockett standards? There's no cascade blacktails in B/C or P/Y. There is for the NW Big Game Records book but thats it.
Boone and
Crockett...
Quote
Mule Deer, Columbia and Sitka Blacktail Deer
Columbia and Sitka blacktail deer range
The problem of properly defining the boundary between the large antlered mule deer, which ranges widely over most of the western third of the United States and western Canada, and its smaller relatives, the Columbia and Sitka blacktails of the West Coast, has been difficult from the beginning of the records keeping. The three varieties belong to the same species and thus are able to interbreed readily where their ranges meet. The intent of the Club in drawing suitable boundary lines is to exclude intergrades from each of the three categories. These boundaries have been redrawn as necessary, as more details have become known about the precise ranges of these animals.
The current boundary for mule and Columbia blacktail deer is as follows:
British Columbia — Starting at the Washington-British Columbia border, blacktail deer range runs west of the height of land between the Skagit and the Chilliwack Ranges, intersecting the Fraser River opposite the mouth of Ruby Creek, then west to and up Harrison Lake to and up Tipella Creek to the height of land in Garibaldi Park and northwesterly along this divide past Alta Lake, Mt. Dalgleish and Mt. Waddington, thence north to Bella Coola. From Bella Coola, the boundary continues north to the head of Dean Channel, Gardner Canal and Douglas Channel to the town of Anyox, then due west to the Alaska-British Columbia border, which is then followed south to open water. This boundary excludes the area west of the Klesilkwa River and the west side of the Lillooet River.
Washington — Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascades National Park to the range line between R10E and R11E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the township line between T18N and T17N, which is then followed westward until it connects with the north border of Mt. Rainier National Park, then along the north, west and south park boundaries until it intersects with the range line between R9E and R10E, Willamette Meridian, which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook.
Oregon — Beginning at Multnomah Falls on the Columbia River, the boundary runs south along the western boundary of the National Forest to Tiller in Douglas County, then south along Highway 227 to Highway 62 at Trail, then south following Highway 62 to Medford, from which the boundary follows the range line between R1W and R2W, Willamette Meridian, to the California border.
If anyone can clarify WTF all that means... I'm all ears.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
It looks nothing like a blacktail. Other than the horn color. But as far as I know if he was shot on the west side of the Pacific Crest trail he is technically a cascade blacktail... if I'm correct
Again, great buck. Congrats to the hunter.
Antler color looks like a mountain deer to me, blackie or muley. Same color as my muley buck from last year.
:dunno:
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 04:16:02 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 24, 2011, 04:32:20 PM
It looks nothing like a blacktail. Other than the horn color. But as far as I know if he was shot on the west side of the Pacific Crest trail he is technically a cascade blacktail... if I'm correct
Again, great buck. Congrats to the hunter.
Antler color looks like a mountain deer to me, blackie or muley. Same color as my muley buck from last year.
:dunno:
I totally agree I have 2 mulies on the wall with chocolate brown antlers
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 04:40:18 PM
Post by: Armadillo on October 24, 2011, 04:42:07 PM
ok more info taken near Index if that helps,getting a map out now
wow, if thats the case :drool: I honestly dont care, thats an amazing buck!
Id love to see the tail on it, it'd be awsome if thats pure blacky
Post by: DeKuma on October 24, 2011, 04:45:52 PM
[smg id=8484]
Post by: Stilly bay on October 24, 2011, 04:49:17 PM
Post by: monster on October 24, 2011, 04:50:02 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on October 24, 2011, 04:56:40 PM
Post by: Shed Stud on October 24, 2011, 05:01:59 PM
Post by: Hyde on October 24, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
Post by: shorthair15 on October 24, 2011, 05:08:26 PM
Post by: firedog on October 24, 2011, 05:10:33 PM
Post by: TheFewTheProud on October 24, 2011, 05:11:19 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 24, 2011, 05:11:59 PM
Great Buck! No matter what you call it. I'd put my money on when it snows, that buck would head east. Mule deer, just one that strayed a little to far.
:yeah:
Post by: TheHunt on October 24, 2011, 05:14:06 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on October 24, 2011, 05:38:49 PM
congrats to the hunter!
Post by: rosscrazyelk on October 24, 2011, 05:49:49 PM
Post by: BowBender87 on October 24, 2011, 05:54:10 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on October 24, 2011, 06:31:45 PM
Post by: Ripper on October 24, 2011, 06:43:16 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on October 24, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Post by: 1buckdown on October 24, 2011, 06:56:21 PM
Post by: Griz231 on October 24, 2011, 07:09:50 PM
Post by: blacktailer on October 24, 2011, 07:22:38 PM
Post by: jrebel on October 24, 2011, 07:23:03 PM
FACT OF THE MATTTER IS IT IS A GREAT BUCK!!!!!!! CONGRATS TO THE HUNTER.
Post by: longknife on October 24, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
It might be a muledeer/blackie cross. reguardless its a completely legit blackie from the game dept specs!
Post by: Huntbear on October 24, 2011, 07:38:14 PM
Columbia Whitetail????? :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on October 24, 2011, 07:45:44 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on October 24, 2011, 09:39:08 PM
Post by: pope on October 24, 2011, 09:50:01 PM
Post by: Wazukie on October 24, 2011, 09:53:31 PM
State regs say if its west of the crest trail its a blacktail to them. Heck of a great buck, it definately has that muley look though, I'd about fall over of a heart attack if I saw a buck like that on the westside though, he's a PIG!
This is true except for the west klickitat, its east of the trail but still considered westside blacktail, go figure :dunno:. Very nice buck!
Post by: the1rod on October 24, 2011, 09:54:07 PM
Post by: Furee65 on October 24, 2011, 09:55:57 PM
Post by: tatatumpi on October 24, 2011, 11:23:06 PM
Post by: PolarBear on October 24, 2011, 11:46:30 PM
Post by: jnevs23 on October 25, 2011, 12:47:52 AM
Post by: spin05 on October 25, 2011, 01:10:49 AM
State regs say if its west of the crest trail its a blacktail to them. Heck of a great buck, it definately has that muley look though, I'd about fall over of a heart attack if I saw a buck like that on the westside though, he's a PIG!
This is true except for the west klickitat, its east of the trail but still considered westside blacktail, go figure :dunno:. Very nice buck!
not anymore. They changed that a few years ago. They consider them mule deer now. Or atleast manage them that way
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on October 25, 2011, 01:35:30 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on October 25, 2011, 05:06:25 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 25, 2011, 05:45:00 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 25, 2011, 05:47:10 AM
Great buck. Correct me if I'm wrong but you won't see that in the record book because blacktail east of I-5 aren't eligible. Isn't that the rule?
Great buck but unfortunately it will not be scored as a blackie. Luv the color!
I-5 is not the border. I posted the border on page 1 although I don't know where it is.
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2011, 05:59:30 AM
Post by: bobcat on October 25, 2011, 06:08:08 AM
Great buck. Correct me if I'm wrong but you won't see that in the record book because blacktail east of I-5 aren't eligible. Isn't that the rule?Great buck but unfortunately it will not be scored as a blackie. Luv the color!
I-5 is not the border. I posted the border on page 1 although I don't know where it is.
The border basically runs down the crest of the Cascades. Much of the border is the Pacific Crest trail.
Post by: bullcanyon on October 25, 2011, 06:32:21 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 25, 2011, 06:43:02 AM
1-It's an awesome buck regardless of where it was killed. I'd give my left ___ for one like it.
2-Geographically it's a blacktail.
3-Biologically and/or genetically it's not a blacktail(I'm definitely no expert here).
Thank you Boneaddict. I was not trying to stir the pot although I should know by now that this thread was bound to turn into not the type of discussion I was getting at.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 25, 2011, 06:47:02 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2011, 06:50:24 AM
I have no idea where Index is. I thought it said Stevens. :dunno:
Post by: DeKuma on October 25, 2011, 06:51:04 AM
Would I shoot it and call it a Blacktail? No, but that is just me. I would say it was a west side muley. Just my opinion from hunting them both for a lot of years.
Great Buck and I congratulate the hunter. Index is a thick, nasty area to hunt and the buck is a true trophy and hard earned in that area.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 25, 2011, 06:54:37 AM
Post by: Goomsba on October 25, 2011, 07:00:29 AM
Lets hear from the guy who shot it as Index is a long way from Stevens Pass
This buck ended up in my email box from that guys father last week. I've sent the guy who shot a link to this tread, Well see if he chimes in or not!!
Post by: jackelope on October 25, 2011, 07:39:19 AM
Was that your left leg, nut, or shoe? :chuckle:
Shoe.
I'll be in your neighborhood this weekend.
Post by: singleshot12 on October 25, 2011, 07:50:57 AM
Would I shoot it and call it a Blacktail? No, but that is just me. I would say it was a west side muley. Just my opinion from hunting them both for a lot of years.
:yeah: I agree with most said and with one glance that buck is definitely worlds apart from being a true blacktail...Now time to change the subject heading to (MONSTER MULE DEER)
Post by: DuckDr.Duke on October 25, 2011, 07:54:57 AM
Post by: Mike450r on October 25, 2011, 08:11:07 AM
Post by: bucklucky on October 25, 2011, 08:11:44 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on October 25, 2011, 08:57:02 AM
Like a lot of you, I spent a lot of time on the crest, 20-30 miles west to 20-30 miles east of it. I've seen "true" blacktails 30 miles east, I've seen true mulies..oh..maybe 10-15 miles west. Sure, there are mulies further west. Geesh, just because a buck wanders a few miles over the line either way, doesn't change WHAT HE IS. That buck is not a "Blacktail"...not genetically. Nope. But, like said many times over, it dont make a CHIT of difference...I'd kill him anywhere, unless I was in the Henry Mountains in Utah or somesuch...
Nice BUCK! Congrats to the hunter!
Post by: Mulieman on October 25, 2011, 08:59:32 AM
As far as the ear thing goes, lots of people will tell you to pull the ears back in a frontal picture to make the rack look larger. It is a method of "trophy picture taking".
Someday I will take a buck of this caliber. Congrats
Post by: Armadillo on October 25, 2011, 09:22:03 AM
Post by: Armadillo on October 25, 2011, 09:22:44 AM
Post by: gutsnthegrass on October 25, 2011, 09:27:26 AM
Post by: jmx369 on October 25, 2011, 09:53:36 AM
Post by: stewcamp on October 25, 2011, 10:33:30 AM
Post by: longstevo on October 25, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
That's why THIS guy is classified as a mule deer according to B&C. I felt like I was being interrogated by the horn scorers at the Sportman's show when they asked me where it was shot. If I had got him ten miles to the west, he'd have gone B&C blacktail.
Washington and Oregon both recognize the 'Benchleg bucks,' or Cascade Blacktail, but not the official record books.
Post by: Huntboy on October 25, 2011, 11:06:46 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on October 25, 2011, 03:21:40 PM
Post by: npaull on October 25, 2011, 05:57:54 PM
Also, I have seen absolutely huge deer (in this same size class) in that corridor on the west side. Very few numbers-wise, but big bucks are there.
Post by: PickNbone on October 25, 2011, 08:26:00 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on October 25, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
Post by: Arteman on October 25, 2011, 08:46:47 PM
Post by: dirty24d on October 25, 2011, 09:20:04 PM
WOOOOOWWWWW!!!
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 25, 2011, 09:21:34 PM
Post by: longstevo on October 26, 2011, 08:50:28 AM
As some guys have said, its for sure possible that mule deer and blacktails cross our 'human-imposed boundary' that splits our state in half. The fact is, and we all know it, that the entire Cascade mountain range the hybrid zone, so to speak, and you'll find muleys, blackies, or benchlegs all over that area.
Post by: backyard bucks on October 26, 2011, 09:38:39 AM
can't wait to read that thread.. :P
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 26, 2011, 09:50:46 AM
That bucks face screams Blacktail, antlers on the other hand??? How many of you guys ever watch the dvd blacktail fever? It looks like a southern Oregon, northern California blacktail. Had anybody post the pic of that huge pure blacktail killed in Tillamook Oregon yet? Now that is a pure monster blacktail!!!Post the site or pics if you have them.
Post by: PolarBear on October 26, 2011, 09:55:28 AM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 26, 2011, 10:05:52 AM
This is just one more reason that out State Record Book is a pile of crap. I wonder how many muleys that are registered as "cascade blacktails"? We have seen several on this site alone throughout the past couple of years that have entered very questionable bucks into the book. I can think of one "blacktail" in particular that had a big white rump, a short/stubby tail and huge ears. I guess that it is an act of desperation to have the "biggest" blacktail in the book wether it is factual or not. :dunno: These are awesome bucks in their own right but why diminish their greatness by stretching the truth about their origin or species?
Yup. I know bucks that have been taken and lied about their location so they can make it in the book. Even road kill elk that were entered as an archery kill and ranks way up there. The book is full of a bunch of BS, which is too bad.
Post by: link on October 26, 2011, 01:10:58 PM
...And guys who pull down blacktail racks from the sixties out of an old mans barn rafters, and entering it as a buck shot by their 12 year old son. Pitiful. I just shake my head looking through that joke of a book. You can't trust most anything in there.This is just one more reason that out State Record Book is a pile of crap. I wonder how many muleys that are registered as "cascade blacktails"? We have seen several on this site alone throughout the past couple of years that have entered very questionable bucks into the book. I can think of one "blacktail" in particular that had a big white rump, a short/stubby tail and huge ears. I guess that it is an act of desperation to have the "biggest" blacktail in the book wether it is factual or not. :dunno: These are awesome bucks in their own right but why diminish their greatness by stretching the truth about their origin or species?
Yup. I know bucks that have been taken and lied about their location so they can make it in the book. Even road kill elk that were entered as an archery kill and ranks way up there. The book is full of a bunch of BS, which is too bad.
Post by: jamesjett on October 26, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Post by: BigFoot02 on October 26, 2011, 07:40:52 PM
Post by: Lowedog on October 26, 2011, 07:43:02 PM
Post by: BigFoot02 on October 26, 2011, 07:46:21 PM
Post by: deerslyr on October 26, 2011, 07:55:23 PM
Post by: Romulus on October 26, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2011, 08:12:33 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2011, 08:14:01 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on October 26, 2011, 08:14:52 PM
Now that Mulie season is over you give us all something for motivation!!
Granted that HOG is not pure bred Blacktail! But hell I would much rather shoot a wayward Mule Deer (That big) over a Blacktail.
Post by: Ridgerunner on October 26, 2011, 08:20:54 PM
Post by: 7mag. on October 26, 2011, 08:26:23 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 26, 2011, 09:26:25 PM
Post by: PolarBear on October 27, 2011, 01:11:34 AM
Clearly a gorgeous buck. Clearly a trophy. Mostly if not all Muledeer :sry: Score is about perfect. CONGRATULATIONS Thanks for chiming in and posting more photos.:yeah:
Post by: Guy on October 27, 2011, 04:16:23 AM
Cute kids too - and it looks like they fully support your hunting habit! :tup:
Post by: Timber_Hunter on October 27, 2011, 07:45:58 AM
Post by: DeKuma on October 27, 2011, 08:09:24 AM
Congratulations again!
Post by: Holg3107 on October 27, 2011, 08:24:03 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 27, 2011, 08:46:42 AM
Thanks for the story and the pics.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on October 27, 2011, 08:52:58 AM
Post by: bobcat on October 27, 2011, 08:54:56 AM
If there's anything we've learned over the year's, we know that all three species can move well outside of the line in the sand for where they are supposed to be. Great majestic looking buck, I'd have buck fever for shure, you did good just to get a shot off. :)
He probably didn't have buck fever, because when he shot it, he thought it was a 2 point. :chuckle:
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on October 27, 2011, 09:10:11 AM
:chuckle:If there's anything we've learned over the year's, we know that all three species can move well outside of the line in the sand for where they are supposed to be. Great majestic looking buck, I'd have buck fever for shure, you did good just to get a shot off. :)
He probably didn't have buck fever, because when he shot it, he thought it was a 2 point. :chuckle:
Post by: nachesboys35 on October 27, 2011, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: Huntboy on October 27, 2011, 11:02:00 AM