Post by: fitzwell22 on November 21, 2011, 12:27:29 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 21, 2011, 12:55:14 PM
To answer your question fitz, the Yakamas don't need permits or permission for anybody to harvest elk since the rimrock unit is within our Ceded Area and the Mucks need permits issued by their Tribe in order to hunt this area which as everybody knows me not something I endorse or support and until the powers that be do something about it all they are going to hear from me is complaining.
Oh and welcome, since I noticed this is your first post.
Post by: Austrian Hunter on November 21, 2011, 01:00:05 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 21, 2011, 01:19:52 PM
Post by: backyard bucks on November 21, 2011, 01:23:08 PM
Post by: rackattack on November 21, 2011, 01:28:56 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 21, 2011, 01:33:36 PM
Post by: 400out on November 21, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
Post by: GoPlayOutside on November 21, 2011, 10:30:41 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on November 21, 2011, 10:47:58 PM
It is really ridiculous how everybody makes such a big deal about the indians shooting "our" elk and deer. For god's sake get over it. A few, and I mean a very small perctage of tribal hunters abuse their rights and shoot more elk than they should. But you guys seem to think every single one of them goes up and shoots 4 or 5 bulls every year off of the reservation. I do think the tribe should make a permit system to limit the number of bulls that can be taken by the members, but it probably wouldnt make a whole lot of difference.
I don't know maybe I'm just sick of seeing these stupid threads but I dont even hunt elk so I guess I dont really care. All I know is I'm sure glad we have a reservation because I sure spend a lot of time (and money) bird hunting over there. :hello:
Post by: beau6hunter on November 21, 2011, 10:51:46 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on November 22, 2011, 07:18:46 AM
« on: Yesterday at 06:36:20 PM » Insert Quote
I will add! I'M PRETTY SURE THE WHITE MAN was the one to bring elk into the area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not native! the time is over! build a bridge and get over it!
yeah 400out you should do some research before you spout off. Elk were transplanted back by the whites because you wiped them out with unregulated hunting. A very great elk biologist wrote what i have put below. its in WDFW elk management plan. you should read it.
Historic Distribution: Elk have been present in the Columbia Basin and adjacent areas for
at least 10,000 years, and were an important source of food for Native Americans
(McCorquodale 1985). Unregulated subsistence and market hunting by Euro-American
immigrants, along with habitat changes resulting from livestock grazing and land cultivation,
nearly extirpated elk from the Blue Mountains by the late 1880's (McCorquodale 1985,
ODFW 1992).
Post by: coachcw on November 22, 2011, 07:56:04 AM
Post by: wt on November 22, 2011, 08:14:51 AM
to me. What are the guide lines? Do you hunt upland birds also or just water fowl? Thanks, I can pretty much echo your take on the tribal hunting,
except I do hunt elk, but it is very frustrating for all involved I think, and people put in a lot of effort to find a good place to hunt and anything that
decimates their chances is a big downer, i.e unregulated hunting, land development, hazing animals before the opener. Some additional cooperation
and disclosure would go along way, but that is over simplifying it I'm sure.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 22, 2011, 09:14:30 AM
270 thanks for your contributions towards bird hunting and I hope you've had a good season and WT, if you have any questions about the program I'm sure he or myself can assist you with locating any information. If you plan on the Yakama Reservation you can go to our website at http://www.ynwildlife.org/ and this will give you more information.
Post by: 270Shooter on November 22, 2011, 09:36:05 AM
Post by: beau6hunter on November 22, 2011, 11:00:01 AM
Post by: wonder on November 22, 2011, 11:34:35 AM
The earth isn't getting any bigger but our human population certainly is so we have to find ways to effectively maintain and manage our resources or they might just go away?
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2011, 12:03:44 PM
Posted by: 400out
« on: Yesterday at 06:36:20 PM » Insert Quote
I will add! I'M PRETTY SURE THE WHITE MAN was the one to bring elk into the area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not native! the time is over! build a bridge and get over it!
yeah 400out you should do some research before you spout off. Elk were transplanted back by the whites because you wiped them out with unregulated hunting. A very great elk biologist wrote what i have put below. its in WDFW elk management plan. you should read it.
Historic Distribution: Elk have been present in the Columbia Basin and adjacent areas for
at least 10,000 years, and were an important source of food for Native Americans
(McCorquodale 1985). Unregulated subsistence and market hunting by Euro-American
immigrants, along with habitat changes resulting from livestock grazing and land cultivation,
nearly extirpated elk from the Blue Mountains by the late 1880's (McCorquodale 1985
ODFW 1992).
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 22, 2011, 12:53:07 PM
I would be inclined to believe what you copy and pasted here but elk were originally plains animals and I highly doubt a lot of these tribes historically hunted deer and elk before the Spanish came about with horses in America. They more than likely subsisted off all the salmon in the rivers. I also doubt that many elk even were in eastern Washington, the channeled scablands isn't exactly ideal habitat.Posted by: 400out
« on: Yesterday at 06:36:20 PM » Insert Quote
I will add! I'M PRETTY SURE THE WHITE MAN was the one to bring elk into the area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not native! the time is over! build a bridge and get over it!
yeah 400out you should do some research before you spout off. Elk were transplanted back by the whites because you wiped them out with unregulated hunting. A very great elk biologist wrote what i have put below. its in WDFW elk management plan. you should read it.
Historic Distribution: Elk have been present in the Columbia Basin and adjacent areas for
at least 10,000 years, and were an important source of food for Native Americans
(McCorquodale 1985). Unregulated subsistence and market hunting by Euro-American
immigrants, along with habitat changes resulting from livestock grazing and land cultivation,
nearly extirpated elk from the Blue Mountains by the late 1880's (McCorquodale 1985
ODFW 1992).
Wow?!?! I'd like to see the documentation you have to justify your comments hughjorgan? Unless you're a biologist, historian or have done extenive research in this subject to make such a claim I wouldn't go as far as to post such a comment here without the facts proving so.
Post by: colockumelk on November 22, 2011, 01:01:32 PM
I don't think the Yaks and Mucks harvested 150 elk in the Rimrock and Cowiche just prior to the season. First of all the Mucks don't come over here to hunt until the winter hits and they are in their winter range. Also that is ALOT of elk to have just been harvested in one unit. Also that is an EXTREMELY remote and hard area to hunt. There's like 3,000 people that hunt that unit during the general season and they don't kill close to 150 elk in that unit. So I doubt a handfull of Indians (even if they were super hunters) could harvest 150 elk. They could do it in the wide open Umptanum in the winter but in a wilderness area without snow where its rugged, remote, no roads and extremely thick.. Not possible.
People I have noticed want to blame the lack of success and/or seeing animals on everything and anything other than their lack of effort.
Post by: Huntboy on November 22, 2011, 01:09:49 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 22, 2011, 01:22:06 PM
I just recently heard a rumor that the Yakamas had a huge tent city up in the Nile Bethel area last December and killed 600 elk. I also recently heard that the Rocky Mountain Elk foundation hired 7 camera men to follow the hunting camp next year and do a documentary. And no before anyone jumps on me I do not believe a word of this rumor.
I don't think the Yaks and Mucks harvested 150 elk in the Rimrock and Cowiche just prior to the season. First of all the Mucks don't come over here to hunt until the winter hits and they are in their winter range. Also that is ALOT of elk to have just been harvested in one unit. Also that is an EXTREMELY remote and hard area to hunt. There's like 3,000 people that hunt that unit during the general season and they don't kill close to 150 elk in that unit. So I doubt a handfull of Indians (even if they were super hunters) could harvest 150 elk. They could do it in the wide open Umptanum in the winter but in a wilderness area without snow where its rugged, remote, no roads and extremely thick.. Not possible.
People I have noticed want to blame the lack of success and/or seeing animals on everything and anything other than their lack of effort.
:yeah: Well said Colock. I'm not saying all the Natives do road hunt but majority of the ones I know do and if that's how they choose to do it then so be it. I don't and the Bethel, Nile and Bumping Units are some of my favorite areas due to the very low amount of people I run into. As far as this year I have yet to run into a fellow native in those areas since I started scouting earlier this year and all the way up to late October.
I'm not saying they don't hunt the area but I've yet to run into any while up there. I've ran into more natives in the observatory area then the other listed areas except the Rimrock Area. I know some natives that do frequent this area and pretty much stay within this area.
It just comes down to knowing the area from scouting and gathering as much information as possible on the area. I love getting out and putting ground underneath my boots and hiking in because I love getting away from people.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 22, 2011, 01:26:58 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on November 22, 2011, 01:29:36 PM
« on: Today at 11:03:44 AM » Insert Quote
I would be inclined to believe what you copy and pasted here but elk were originally plains animals and I highly doubt a lot of these tribes historically hunted deer and elk before the Spanish came about with horses in America. They more than likely subsisted off all the salmon in the rivers. I also doubt that many elk even were in eastern Washington, the channeled scablands isn't exactly ideal habitat.
your argument is full of your own guessing. words and phrases such as-"be inclined","highly doubt","more than likely", "doubt".
Sounds like your well informed. If you dont know what your talking about just dont post something to stir the pot, its not needed.
Post by: 270Shooter on November 22, 2011, 02:01:19 PM
I have seen this tent city first hand it looked like the modern day seen from dances with wolves but instead of Buffalo it was elk. Savages all of them.:chuckle: yep im sure, if it was real we'd have heard of it already.
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 22, 2011, 02:04:54 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2011, 02:07:02 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on November 22, 2011, 02:18:09 PM
« on: Today at 01:07:02 PM » Insert Quote
Oh come on it is a fact that there weren't any horses in america until the Spaniards brought them to America. Also it is a fact that elk were a plains animal originally. Your ancestors probably did hunt but not much all the tribal history I have ever seen in the PNW has shown many pictures of Indians fishing. Do you even have evidence that there were elk in the yakima area
this is from the WDFW Yakima Elk Herd
Historic Distribution
The Yakima Elk Herd is a reintroduced herd resulting from an initial transplant of 50 Rocky
Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) from Gardiner, Montana in January 1913 and an
additional 6 elk from Montana purchased from Manitou Park in Spokane, Washington in 1913.
These animals were released on the Stevens Ranch on the Naches River (Pautzke et al.1939).
They noted that, “There were no elk native to Yakima County at the time of these plantings, nor
is there definite evidence that elk ever occupied that area in recent times.” Based on recent
archeological records from the Columbia Basin the evidence suggests that elk were present and
utilized by the early inhabitants (Dixon et al. 1996 and McCorquodale 1985). Elk were possibly
extirpated from the region by the late 1880's (McCorquodale 1985).
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 22, 2011, 02:22:24 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 22, 2011, 02:25:07 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 22, 2011, 02:42:16 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on November 22, 2011, 02:50:46 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 22, 2011, 03:46:41 PM
agreed:yeah:
Post by: coachcw on November 22, 2011, 04:35:30 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2011, 04:58:50 PM
Posted by: hughjorgan
« on: Today at 01:07:02 PM » Insert Quote
Oh come on it is a fact that there weren't any horses in america until the Spaniards brought them to America. Also it is a fact that elk were a plains animal originally. Your ancestors probably did hunt but not much all the tribal history I have ever seen in the PNW has shown many pictures of Indians fishing. Do you even have evidence that there were elk in the yakima area
this is from the WDFW Yakima Elk Herd
Historic Distribution
The Yakima Elk Herd is a reintroduced herd resulting from an initial transplant of 50 Rocky
Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) from Gardiner, Montana in January 1913 and an
additional 6 elk from Montana purchased from Manitou Park in Spokane, Washington in 1913.
These animals were released on the Stevens Ranch on the Naches River (Pautzke et al.1939).
They noted that, “There were no elk native to Yakima County at the time of these plantings, nor
is there definite evidence that elk ever occupied that area in recent times.” Based on recent
archeological records from the Columbia Basin the evidence suggests that elk were present and
utilized by the early inhabitants (Dixon et al. 1996 and McCorquodale 1985). Elk were possibly
extirpated from the region by the late 1880's (McCorquodale 1985).
Historically. North American elk, were thought to have been absent from the arid steppe habitats of the Columbia Basin of Eastern Washington. Mccorquodale ( 1985.) used zoo archaeological data to show elk had been present there during the Holocene. Presently available zoo archeological data indicate elk were present during each 1000 yr increment during of the last 5000 years, but those data are not sufficiently robust to allow detection of changes in the range or abundance of elk. Limited data suggest that the introduction of Euroamerican technologies and horses to Native American peoples may have initiated local extirpation of late prehistoric early-pre historic elk.
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 22, 2011, 05:02:20 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2011, 05:33:18 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on November 22, 2011, 05:42:18 PM
You can read the study that I pulled the quotes from yourself Igotbigbulls and PlateauNDN...
It is interesting to note that there is no data available in there chart for frequency of dated assemblages producing elk remains per county for Yakima or Kittitas Counties, the
very area that is so controversial about tribal elk harvest... is there no data because there was no elk, until some sportsman introduced them to these areas? Elk seem to be well
documented in other counties in Eastern Washington by carbon dating and fossils.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 22, 2011, 06:48:39 PM
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/org_NWS/NWSci%20journal%20articles/1996%20files/Issue%203/v70%20p262%20Dixon%20and%20Lyman.PDF
You can read the study that I pulled the quotes from yourself Igotbigbulls and PlateauNDN...
It is interesting to note that there is no data available in there chart for frequency of dated assemblages producing elk remains per county for Yakima or Kittitas Counties, the
very area that is so controversial about tribal elk harvest... is there no data because there was no elk, until some sportsman introduced them to these areas? Elk seem to be well
documented in other counties in Eastern Washington by carbon dating and fossils.
You couldve saved a lot of time by just saying what was already known that elk were not inhabiting the desert areas of Yakima Co. That's not the area in question, rimrock is which is in the cascade mountain range where elk inhabit and the Yakamas migrated with the seasons to hunt and gather with the changing of the seasons. We also traveled east to. Other states to hunt a
nd gather so our Ceded area was mainly established as the areas of encampments where most of the time was spent..
Post by: colockumelk on November 22, 2011, 07:08:34 PM
Post by: Willis McGee on November 23, 2011, 10:14:22 AM
Quote
the Yakamas don't need permits or permission for anybody to harvest elk since the rimrock unit is within our Ceded Area
If the Yaks can hunt off reservation, is it OK for me to hunt the head waters of the Klickitat? How bout Petros Sidehill? I can call it my seeded area? I know several Yakima Indians some are OK with it some are not? :dunno: Will I need a tag or can I just go in there and get me one? :dunno:
Post by: bullcanyon on November 23, 2011, 10:38:18 AM
Post by: Willis McGee on November 23, 2011, 11:00:13 AM
Bet they didn't hunt out of pickup trucks with .300 ultra mags though... Wasnt rimrock the unit where the tribal killers were herding a bull with their truck last season? What ever came of that?
Must have been the Muks the Yaks are too ethical for a stunt like that.