Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: deadyote on November 21, 2011, 03:39:29 PM

Title: I'm worried!!
Post by: deadyote on November 21, 2011, 03:39:29 PM: So I went out today and shot my ML to sight in because I finally bought the Tru-Glo ghost ring sights. By the way I love them. I shot a couple then cleaned, shot a couple more, cleaned, then again with no problems. After that, I could not get the powder to fire. The cap went off, but no ignition with the 777 pellets. I am using #11 caps. I disassembled, ran 3 dry patches through it, made sure the nipple and breech plug are clear, add new powder, and once again nothing? I did this three times and still can't get the powder to ignite. I even opened a new box of pellets to see if that was the problem. Any ideas? I have a CVA Elkhorn Pro and have never had any problems with it. One thing I did forget to do was fire a cap before I loaded it, so would that cause a problem? I ran patches through everything to make sure it was dry. This is too close to opener for this. I shot this ML 3 weeks ago and had no problems.

I also noticed that after the cap going off, the saftey switch would stick until I opened the bolt. Any ideas on that one?
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Machias on November 21, 2011, 03:59:27 PM: You have to have a blockage or you've got moisture somewhere between ignition and powder.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: wazzu99 on November 21, 2011, 04:24:43 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 21, 2011, 04:30:25 PM: Your "cleaning probably packed a bunch of crud into the nipple. Why are you cleaning it so much? It's a charcoal-burner, not a benchrest rifle. Snapping caps on a freshly cleaned gun is a must. Also a must before loading a gun that hasn't been shot in a while. Point the gun down at some dust or fine stuff to make sure the fire from the cap is getting all the way through. If there is no movement of the dust in front of the muzzle, it's blocked.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 21, 2011, 04:41:24 PM: Pull your nipple out and puch a pick threw it and make sure you can see light threw it before you put it back in. It sounds like the fire is not getting threw to the powder. The paper inside of the caps can sometimes get stuck in the throat of the nipple and block the fire as well. I have seen that happen before. Also are you using the 11 mags? the 777 pellets can be harder to get to go off but should go off just like all your other shots. One of 2 things nipple is blocked by paper or crud on the inside or you left to much moisture in the barrel when you loaded it and the powder is wet and wont go off.

GLAD YOU LIKE THOSE SITES :tup: :IBCOOL: every one that has ever bought them has been happy with them! I love mine and thats why I speak so highly of them :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on November 21, 2011, 04:51:46 PM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on November 21, 2011, 04:41:24 PM
Pull your nipple out and puch a pick threw it and make sure you can see light threw it before you put it back in. It sounds like the fire is not getting threw to the powder. The paper inside of the caps can sometimes get stuck in the throat of the nipple and block the fire as well. I have seen that happen before. Also are you using the 11 mags? the 777 pellets can be harder to get to go off but should go off just like all your other shots. One of 2 things nipple is blocked by paper or crud on the inside or you left to much moisture in the barrel when you loaded it and the powder is wet and wont go off.

GLAD YOU LIKE THOSE SITES :tup: :IBCOOL: every one that has ever bought them has been happy with them! I love mine and thats why I speak so highly of them :IBCOOL:
:yeah:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 21, 2011, 06:35:52 PM: You might want to try to use granulated powder rather than pellets. Pellets are designed for a 209 primer which burns hotter to ignite the pellets. #11 primers are designed for granulated powder because it dosen't take as much fire to get it started. :twocents:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: colockumelk on November 21, 2011, 07:00:39 PM: Have you ever thought about using musket caps. The nipple is bigger and is far less likely to get clogged. Also it shoots out like 10x more flame.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Machias on November 21, 2011, 07:19:34 PM: :yeah: Both of those!
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: HornHoarder on November 21, 2011, 07:22:07 PM: Quote from: Heredoggydoggy on November 21, 2011, 04:30:25 PM
Your "cleaning probably packed a bunch of crud into the nipple. Why are you cleaning it so much? It's a charcoal-burner, not a benchrest rifle. Snapping caps on a freshly cleaned gun is a must. Also a must before loading a gun that hasn't been shot in a while. Point the gun down at some dust or fine stuff to make sure the fire from the cap is getting all the way through. If there is no movement of the dust in front of the muzzle, it's blocked.

I'm fairly new to muzzleloaders, why is snapping caps on a freshly cleaned gun nessesary?
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: dupedc on November 21, 2011, 08:11:05 PM: Quote from: colockumelk on November 21, 2011, 07:00:39 PM
Have you ever thought about using musket caps. The nipple is bigger and is far less likely to get clogged. Also it shoots out like 10x more flame.

I did that last year and it made all the difference with my Rem ML700. I also added the TruGlo ghost ring sight this year...AWESOME!
Good luck with late season!
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 21, 2011, 08:34:48 PM: Also I shoot a cva elkhorn as well. When you bought the gun, it should have come with the musket nipple you might try getting some of them and putting the musket cap nipple in and seeing if it will burn it out :tup:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 21, 2011, 10:20:18 PM: Quote from: HornHoarder on November 21, 2011, 07:22:07 PM
Quote from: Heredoggydoggy on November 21, 2011, 04:30:25 PM
Your "cleaning probably packed a bunch of crud into the nipple. Why are you cleaning it so much? It's a charcoal-burner, not a benchrest rifle. Snapping caps on a freshly cleaned gun is a must. Also a must before loading a gun that hasn't been shot in a while. Point the gun down at some dust or fine stuff to make sure the fire from the cap is getting all the way through. If there is no movement of the dust in front of the muzzle, it's blocked.

I'm fairly new to muzzleloaders, why is snapping caps on a freshly cleaned gun nessesary?
Because the bore butter you swab the barrel with after cleaning can clog the nipple and if you load your gun first without snapping a couple of caps your taking a unnessacery chance. Its easy and cheap to make sure the nipple is clear before loading and point the gun at a leaf or something that will move when the cap goes off to make sure the nipple is clear, if the leaf moves the nipple is clear.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 21, 2011, 10:41:05 PM: I changed to a musket cap nipple last year, and no doubt, they give out more fire. That being said, I just cleaned my .54 in anticipation of late muzzy deer hunting, and the flash hole in the musket nipple is still pretty small, and prone to plugging. Snapping caps makes sure no insect has chosen your nipple to hibernate in. If your gun is a traditional Sidelock Hawken type, use granular powder only. The pellet powders are made for the inline type rifles, where the priming charge is closer to the powder charge. The rule of thumb for powder size is FG=Cannon pwder, FFG=Rifle, FFFG=Pistol, FFFFG=Priming charge in Flintlock Pans. 3F will work in rifles, if 2F isn't available.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: deadyote on November 21, 2011, 10:49:04 PM: Thanks everyone. It sounds like I have moisture because the nipple and breach plug are clean enough to eat off of and I didn't fire a cap off before loading. I ran a brush through the nipple and made sure it was clear. My problem is the moisture. Here is another question, Heredoggydoggy, asked why am I cleaning so much? I cleaned it a ton this time because I was trying to figure out why it wouldnt fire and thought it might have something lodgede inside. When I shoot I clean the gun every 3 shots or so. That is what I was told by a few other ML hunters. Is that too much?
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 21, 2011, 11:12:11 PM: If you are using real black powder, which I doubt, more cleaning is needed becuse of the fouling. Even then, a few strokes with a DRY brush does the job. With the substitute powders, Pyrodex, American Pioneer, etc. less cleaning is needed due to less fouling. I have several cans of the "real" black powder, but I don't use it any more. After you shoot the real stuff, you smell like rotten eggs for a week, and people tend to shun you.

I try to do the wet cleaning at least a week before I'll need to load it for hunting, to give it time to thoroughly dry out. if I have to shoot it soon after cleaning, I'll fire a squib load, which is a small powder charge topped with a wad of patch material to make sure the bore is dry before the real load goes in. Moisture is the mortal enemy in muzzle loading.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: deadyote on November 22, 2011, 09:27:25 AM: Great info and thanks!! Being my first year doing this, I obviously have a lot to learn.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Wacenturion on November 22, 2011, 10:08:05 AM: Quote from: Machias on November 21, 2011, 07:19:34 PM
:yeah: Both of those!

Ditto
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: deadyote on November 23, 2011, 01:58:12 PM: Well, I went back out today and it did the same thing after shooting four caps off.....NOTHING!!! :bash:. Another ML hunter was there and I asked him what he thought and he said that he has had nothing but problems with the 777 pellets and them not firing. He suggested the Jim Shockey Gold loose powder and let me use some of his. Worked flawlessly. I got my groups to 2 inches at 100yards and 2" high. I went straight to the store and bought new powder. Thanks for the advise from everyone. Good luck!! I'll let you know if I get something.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: rasbo on November 23, 2011, 02:16:18 PM: stick with loose :tup:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 23, 2011, 02:32:22 PM: I have had problems with the pellets when I first started with a muzzleloader. I switched to loose the same year I got started and have never looked back :tup:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: deadyote on November 23, 2011, 05:18:56 PM: The Jim Shockey powder worked well, is there other powder that is worth trying next year and see if my gun likes them better?
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 23, 2011, 07:51:20 PM: Quote from: deadyote on November 23, 2011, 05:18:56 PM
The Jim Shockey powder worked well, is there other powder that is worth trying next year and see if my gun likes them better?
I don't know how much you paid for Jim's stuff but GOEX is about $14 per pound and it's real black powder.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: dawhunt on November 24, 2011, 06:42:56 AM: Also the proplem with real black powder other then dirty !!!! stinking !!!!!!!!!
is it can be really hard to find anymore !!!!!!!
Bob :chuckle:
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 24, 2011, 11:04:13 AM: I have a .54 lyman and use 100gr of powder and can shoot all day without cleaning. When I clean it I could drink the water afterwards. I guess my gun digests it pretty well and I dont need special cleaners. Maybe your just using too much powder and your gun isn't using it all which is why it's so dirty. I found in my gun that more powder dosen't mean more accurate, then again I'm shooting round ball and am comfortable with a 100yd shot.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 24, 2011, 11:06:44 AM: Quote from: dawhunt on November 24, 2011, 06:42:56 AM
Also the proplem with real black powder other then dirty !!!! stinking !!!!!!!!!
is it can be really hard to find anymore !!!!!!!
Bob :chuckle:
Theres a place in Puyallup called Muzzleloaders Supply and he has it for $20 per pound and you can also find it online.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 24, 2011, 06:29:53 PM: Quote from: deadyote on November 23, 2011, 05:18:56 PM
The Jim Shockey powder worked well, is there other powder that is worth trying next year and see if my gun likes them better?

I use American Pioneer powder, and the Jim Shockey Gold is made by American Pioneer. Never tried the Gold, so I can't say it's better. My buddy uses Pyrodex, and it seems to work good too. We both shoot conventional Sidelock Hawkens,so have not used the pellets. Good Luck, Good Hunting! We leave for 113 Late Muzzy hunting in the morning.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: bobcat on November 24, 2011, 06:41:02 PM: Try loose Triple 7. It's hotter than the others though so you have to use about 15% less.
Title: Re: I'm worried!!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 24, 2011, 06:59:27 PM: :yeah: I shoot FFFG loose and it has worked great. I switched from pyro rs about 3 years ago and it is much cleaner and has shot well for me.