Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM

Title: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM: I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers. What can I expect in accuracy for each? Im guessing the rifle chambered ones will go farther and flatter, but out to what distances with factory ammo? Same Q for the pistol cartridge ones.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 29, 2011, 01:24:09 PM: I like old-timey levers, but you can get modern levers like the BLR that can handle .270/.30-06 and type crtridges. Just as fast and flat as the bolt guns, and some will say the accuracy matches too. The savage 99 hosts a few moderately fast rifle loads. But most lever guns have a rainbow trajectories, some of which is being eliminated using Leverevolution(?) ammo. The pistol ones have some good hunting potential with chamberings like .500 S&W or .454 casull. But I feel the .45 colt and .44 mag ones are more range queens or rabbit shooters than big game blasters. Personally I like big bore levers like .45-70 and up. I kind of feel it you are going to shoot close range, might as well not hold back on the lead.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 01:38:14 PM: That's why I'm asking. I'm trying to justify a lever action as my big game rifle. All I'm really looking for is something that I can shoot a solid softball sized group out to 200-250. If I need to go farther I'll have a bolt gun for that. The big bores and the pistol cartridges are just a completely unfamiliar category to me.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 29, 2011, 01:44:41 PM: The range you are asking for softball groups would likely be tough for a .45-70, but a .45-90 or .50-110, maybe the .450 marlin might. But when you chunk that much lead out there the drop from 200 to 210 yards is noticeable. A buddy lets me shoot his .45-70 carbine and the recoil is not bad like I expected. It was accurate enough for me, but I just don't know that I'd go to 200 or 250 yds with it. I guess if you got comfortable with it you could do it. Heck, old timers could shoot deer in the head on the run at 800 yds with a .30-30. I would look into find a cartridge to your liking and then seeing if there is a lever alternative.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jyerxa on November 29, 2011, 01:54:37 PM: I think it is all in the shooter. I had my 44 mag six shooter and was out shooting some guys one time who had an old 357 lever action at 100 yards. I've always wanted a 44 mag lever. :dunno:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 01:55:51 PM: Thanks a lot jimmy. I think you validated my suspicion that I really want a savage 99 in .308 win or a blr in the same. I'm a huge fan of cheaper trigger time due to milsurp anyway. Now that I've made up my mind I gotta start drooling over various furniture options for each. Those are big amounts of lead flying out and I'm not worrying about recoil much, ever seen a lever with a muzzle brake? Mwahahahahahaha. On a serious note though thanks for weighing in mr hoffa.

I may have to get two though. One for close and one for farther. I've got a full fledged gun addiction now. My wife's fault for telling me she wants venison in the freezer next year.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 29, 2011, 02:06:45 PM: I've seen BLRs with BOSS on them and even brakes installed afterwards. Also seen some ported big bores like guide guns.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jackmaster on November 29, 2011, 02:07:24 PM: good ole 30-30 in marlin or winchester is tough to beat and plenty capable out to 200yrds, or the 300 savage in lever action is also a fine gun, are you wanting to stay with open sights or are you mounting a scope on it as well. i used a 30-30 marlin with open sights until i got back from the military and my wife and dad bought me a ruger #1 in 30-06, its also a lever gun but its a single shot falling block, most accurate pure shootn gun i have ever shot
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: grundy53 on November 29, 2011, 02:11:46 PM: Check out either the .308 marlin express or the .338 marlin express. I have a model 1895 chambered in .338 marlin express and I love it.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Glockster on November 29, 2011, 02:12:59 PM: Hornady is making some great extended range ammo for 45/70, 450 Marlin, 30/30 called Leverevolution or something like that.

You should look into the .338 Marlin and 308 Marlin rounds and rifles. Those are supposed to approximate the ballistics of 308 and 30/06 rounds at 200yds-300yds.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: gotshot on November 29, 2011, 02:30:28 PM: Model 94 30-30 with open sights is the best brush gun I have.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 12:49:11 AM: I'm not planning on putting a scope on it at all. I'm more accurate out to 300 with iron sights than I am with a 3-9x scope for some reason. I figured since I was an ok shot in the army I'd be a sniper with a scope. Now I'm a bit more humble about it :chuckle: What's BOSS? Leverevolution isn't very cheap. I wanna have thousands of fun booms a year with this gun and if I gotta pay over .50 a round then I won't wanna pay to play. I actually thought about the .308 marlin until I realized that it's an attempt at the .308 win and won't work with milsurp. and if I was a reloader I would def be getting a .338
30-30 appeals to me a lot actually, but I need to study the cartridge a little more. Haven't even priced it out yet. Never knew so many ppl had lever guns. If it weren't for the fact that cabelas was selling them I woulda bought a 99 this past sunday. I know that for every penny they bought it for though they're prolly selling it for 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 01:02:14 AM: Model 94 is probably the best gun you could ever have. Just the historical part of it is enough to make a person want to own one. Its not rocket science, its whether or not you can shoot. Its like going grass roots.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 01:09:21 AM: Are the newer 94's just as good as the old ones? You guys are KILLING me! So many new ideas!
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Miles on November 30, 2011, 01:17:21 AM: Quote from: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 01:02:14 AM
Model 94 is probably the best gun you could ever have. Just the historical part of it is enough to make a person want to own one. Its not rocket science, its whether or not you can shoot. Its like going grass roots.

:yeah:

Although for a modern gun the BLR is nice. I've got one in .243 and have taken quite a few bucks with it prior to ever mounting a scope on it (growing up I wasn't allowed to have a scope mounted on any rifle till I shot a few bucks with open sights). I hated it then, but looking back...it wasn't such a bad idea. I actually was thinking about taking it out here in the near future and giving it a go with open sights again. There's no easier way to shoot a buck thats moving fast in timber, than with a lever action and open sights (IMO).
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Miles on November 30, 2011, 01:19:30 AM: The other thing I like about the BLR's is that at half-cock if you bump the hammer it has a "safe mode" and will not hit the firing pin. Not sure if the newer 94's are doing that now or not. You want to be damn careful with some of the older 94's.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 01:22:42 AM: Not sure the 94's fit the bill anyway. Not a fan of tube mags. I watched a belt of ammo fall 3 feet and when they hit the ground one of them went off and lodged itself in our blackhawk. I knew blowing a tube up is a rarity esp if you don't use pointed bullets, but it's more than I'm willing to risk. Funny that 2 ppl just posted good things about the blr's. Heard a lot of crap about the guys not being durable. It WAS internet crap though.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Miles on November 30, 2011, 01:38:20 AM: I haven't had any durability problems with mine. I did wear some of the bluing off from carrying it around in my hand for several years. It still doesn't rust there (you can see the outline of 4 fingers on the one side). The metal magazine is nice instead of having the tube. Just pop it in and go.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 02:01:50 AM: Judging by the difficulty in finding a used one I think they're probably a fine weapon. One day I may own some pretty safe queens but at this point I want something that works well that I can beat the everlivin outta. Seems like the BLR fits the bill.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 02:11:35 AM: THis gun is older than you, me and miles put together and its still kicking ass.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2F32Daze1st.jpg&hash=999a4cba13b99a4802887618660603dc91ad399e)
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 02:16:21 AM: Yes it is. I'd love to own it. I'd hate to smack it around in the woods though. I'd just keep oiling it and cleaning it and showing it off. Maybe shooting it at the range a few times a year. I think that's a sad life for a gun. I also know the cost of that bit of history can be pretty steep!

That girl looks excited and a bit wary of getting punched in the shoulder. I think its awesome seeing the little ones learning the old ways. Saw a girl at the range last weekend shooting a 22. She was as tall as the rifle was long.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 02:33:50 AM: It was her first time firing a big game rifle.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 02:59:40 AM: I'm shocked nobody said anything about the 88.... I may be in love!
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 03:42:19 AM: Are you talking Marlin 88?

Honestly when someone says lever action I think Winchester or Henry, thats about it. RARE occasion Savage or .444 pops into mind.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: winshooter88 on November 30, 2011, 03:56:33 AM: I think he is talking about the Winchester model 88 lever action rifle. It has a detachable magazine and is available in 243, 308, 358 and 284 winchester calibers. They are not produced any longer, but can still be found used. I have been shooting one for years and it is very accurate. I have taken elk out to 325 yards with no problems.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2011, 04:04:14 AM: Cool.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: high country on November 30, 2011, 07:02:41 AM: Just a little heads up, I will be building a takedown lever gun here reasonably soon. If there is interest, I will post a pictorial.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: arees on November 30, 2011, 07:20:07 AM: Count me as interested. I have lever guns running from my grandfathers that spend so much time in the smoke house that it only shoots oblong holes to the one my wife got last year.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: ANDERWAGON on November 30, 2011, 07:51:29 AM: I like the BLR 81 as it has a rack and pinion, locking bolt and a metal magazine. Its available in lots of different calibers and two different grips. Also there is a
new break down model for packing.

This one's a 358 Win, this bull doesn’t like it.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: 44 Flattop on November 30, 2011, 07:58:31 AM: I've always been a levergun fan. From my first rifle 38 years ago to today.

This year alone I took an antelope in Wyoming with a Marlin Cowboy in .38-55. Then I came home and took a blacktail with my .44 Marlin Cowboy. Then back to Wyoming and I took a dandy mulie with the same 38-55. Then yesterday I took a calf elk with my 444 Marlin.

Over the past 10 years I've taken 10 blacktails with leverguns, mostly with a Marlin Cowboy in .44 mag. Every single one of them with a cast bullet I cast myself. If I remember correctly the last 4 or 5 elk I've taken, maybe more, have taken have been with a levergun, mostly the .38-55 and the .44 mag.

Its pretty basic. Leverguns put the hunting back into hunting. If you want to take a critter at 250 yards or more, take your magnumwhizbang. If you are worried about seeing a buck or bull and not be able to get close enough, take your magnumwhizbang. While the ranged can be stretched a bit, like the antelope I took at 230 yards this year, it takes a LOT of overall shooting, lots of reloading and a lot of target practice. A levergun isn't a long range rifle and shouldn't be stretched beyond its ability nor the shooters ability.

But if you want to really hunt, not just spot and then shoot, use a levergun. I can't overstate the fun and the satisfaction that can and will be gained from using one. If an old feller like me can put the sneak on a Wyoming mule deer and move from a 1/2 mile away to within 75 yards in that desert country and make the kill, you young bucks can to. Its just whether you are willing to do what it takes to be successful with a levergun.

44
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: high country on November 30, 2011, 08:04:42 AM: The blr is a sweetie, but the take down has typically quite poor accuracy.

I am going to build on 1936/guides and 1892 wins for something different. It is a bit intimidating to cut a perfectly good rifle in half, but I think I have it all penciled out. God knows wild west can't be the only ones handy on a mill.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Miles on November 30, 2011, 08:34:34 AM: Quote from: ANDERWAGON on November 30, 2011, 07:51:29 AM
I like the BLR 81 as it has a rack and pinion, locking bolt and a metal magazine. Its available in lots of different calibers and two different grips. Also there is a
new break down model for packing.

This one's a 358 Win, this bull doesn’t like it.

That's the same style as my .243. I like it.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Huntbear on November 30, 2011, 08:45:26 AM: You can not beat the Browning BLR for accuracy or reliability. My Pre 81 .308 has out shot many off the rack bolt guns and won me some beer money along the way.

They are fast handling, and easy to shoot. They ARE NOT however, easy to disassemble for the untrained person, without the proper tools. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: MikeWalking on November 30, 2011, 09:04:14 AM: Quote from: Glockster on November 29, 2011, 02:12:59 PM
Hornady is making some great extended range ammo for 45/70, 450 Marlin, 30/30 called Leverevolution or something like that.

You should look into the .338 Marlin and 308 Marlin rounds and rifles. Those are supposed to approximate the ballistics of 308 and 30/06 rounds at 200yds-300yds.

Been shooting the Leverevolution from my 1895 45-70 with good groups off the bench at 100-Scope. Shooting Buffalo Bores hothothot 430gr off hand I can hit saucer size targets pretty well at 75-100-Open sight. I don't ask much more.

If you do go for a Marlin (and I haven't handled one of the XLR's yet) I'd look real hard at Wild West Guns in Anchorage. Happy Trigger kit (if you can do a tune up you can install it) Best trigger I've touched $95? Heavy 1 piece Bear Proof ejector $24 I added a heavy mag spring and anodized follower to mine too. All the best for my only friend in the Brooks Range :chuckle:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Snookmonster on November 30, 2011, 09:58:19 AM: Quote from: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 02:59:40 AM
I'm shocked nobody said anything about the 88.... I may be in love!
:yeah:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jyerxa on November 30, 2011, 10:17:51 AM: It seems I totally missed the point of this thread. There are lever actions in 375 and 44mag. I thought this was about handgun/lever combo's. I thought that was the nature of the question. Did I miss something? :dunno:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: MikeWalking on November 30, 2011, 10:23:01 AM: Quote from: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers. What can I expect in accuracy for each? Im guessing the rifle chambered ones will go farther and flatter, but out to what distances with factory ammo? Same Q for the pistol cartridge ones.

It seems I totally missed the point of this thread. There are lever actions in 375 and 44mag. I thought this was about handgun/lever combo's. I thought that was the nature of the question. Did I miss something?

yep... 375?
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jyerxa on November 30, 2011, 10:38:36 AM: Quote from: MikeWalking on November 30, 2011, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers. What can I expect in accuracy for each? Im guessing the rifle chambered ones will go farther and flatter, but out to what distances with factory ammo? Same Q for the pistol cartridge ones.

It seems I totally missed the point of this thread. There are lever actions in 375 and 44mag. I thought this was about handgun/lever combo's. I thought that was the nature of the question. Did I miss something?

yep... 375?
:DOH:

357.

My trigger finger is a little faster. ;)
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jyerxa on November 30, 2011, 10:45:36 AM: Quote from: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers.

This was the opening question.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: dawei on November 30, 2011, 10:47:10 AM: Quote from: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers. What can I expect in accuracy for each? Im guessing the rifle chambered ones will go farther and flatter, but out to what distances with factory ammo? Same Q for the pistol cartridge ones.
I have three Marlin®s and one Winchester® as follows.....................
• 1976 Marlin® Mdl 336 in 30/30 WCF
• 1966 Marlin® Mdl 444 444Marlin®
• 1988 Marlin® Mdl 444SS 444Marlin®
• 1992 Winchester® Mdl 94 in 7-30 Waters

I will not hesitate taking a 250yd shot with any of them with two caveats.....
• 250yds is my absolute limit.
• To achieve consistent, accurate, and lethal hits with the 30/30 beyond 200yds however; I use the Hornady® LEVERevolution® ammunition.

The 30/30 & 7-30 are used for hunting Blacktail Deer, the 444's are my Bear & Elk rifles. If you want extensive knowledge about anything Marlin® go to.....
• Marlin® Lever Guns (http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/)

The bottom line choice for me as a do it all lever gun is the 444 Marlin®; see here.....
• 444 Marlin Forum (http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/444-marlin/)
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on November 30, 2011, 10:47:19 AM: I had a Winchester 92 that was rebored and chambered for .357. Super accurate. At 50 feet, out of a handgun, a .38 bullet bounced off of a 55-gallon drum. Out of my rifle, it would go right through!
These days, the only lever gun I have is the Winchester 94 .30-30 that I hunted with in Vermont. Just for the sentimental value of it.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: MikeWalking on November 30, 2011, 10:52:12 AM: Quote from: jyerxa on November 30, 2011, 10:38:36 AM
Quote from: MikeWalking on November 30, 2011, 10:23:01 AM
Quote from: wraithen on November 29, 2011, 12:47:36 PM
I really like em and wanted to know people's experiences with accuracy of pistol and rifle cartridge levers. What can I expect in accuracy for each? Im guessing the rifle chambered ones will go farther and flatter, but out to what distances with factory ammo? Same Q for the pistol cartridge ones.

It seems I totally missed the point of this thread. There are lever actions in 375 and 44mag. I thought this was about handgun/lever combo's. I thought that was the nature of the question. Did I miss something?

yep... 375?
:DOH:

357.

My trigger finger is a little faster. ;)

Damn. Thought there was an H&H in a lever gun... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: krism83 on November 30, 2011, 11:06:11 AM: I have a Model 88 Winchester in .308 and absolutely love it! The only problem I have been having with it though is since they are no longer in production all of the parts for them are attempts at remakes and the few magazines I have gotten over the years seem to have problems with the magazine followers getting stuck in the bottom of the well .
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: rtspring on November 30, 2011, 11:07:42 AM: I found a 32 Winchester Special Model 94 about three years ago. Dang near stole it for the price I paid for it. It is in great condition. I had been searching for one for years before I came upon this rifle.

I took an elk with it two years ago and it performed perfectly.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: wraithen on November 30, 2011, 11:11:54 AM: Yes I was talking the Winchester 88. Something about it's lines... Anyway, what I'm taking away from this so far are 2 things.
1. Lever guns are freakin sweet!
and 2. The pistol cartridges are just as good as the rifle cartridges up to 100 - 150 yards?

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: krism83 on November 30, 2011, 01:19:52 PM: the other thing you should take away from this is that any iron site lever action in 30-30 is an absolute blast to go and plink some iron with. I go through about 4 boxes every time i take mine out.
Title: Re: Lever guns
Post by: jrebel on November 30, 2011, 02:33:21 PM: I own a Marlin 45/70 XLR and it is a 300 yard gun all day. I shoot the Hornady Leverevolution (spelling) and it is one of my most accurate rifles. I do have a 3/9 leupold mounted on it. It is zeroed at 200 yards.. and can clover leaf three shots off a rest.....all day long. I love it. Killed two deer with it and it flat levels them. It's like throwing a bowling ball down range. :chuckle: :chuckle: