Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 11, 2011, 10:09:04 AM
Post by: colockumelk on December 12, 2011, 06:55:18 AM
Post by: hunter-4-life on December 12, 2011, 07:12:18 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 12, 2011, 07:41:45 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 12, 2011, 08:37:49 AM
This is awesome. Not only is it good for hunters but it will also be really good for the elk herd. That herd could stand to lose about 1,000 cows. This will do wonders for the health of this herd. I am glad to hear they have decided to do this. This is a huge step in the right direction IMHO. Now if they couple this with some smart road closures they can do away with True Spike only, go back to Spike only and start handing out more Bull Permits. If they close enough roads it is completely feasible that one day they can hand out as many permits as they do in the Observatory. :tup:
But there's no elk in the Observatory. :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: So yes, please send them to the Colockum. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry my big fingers hit enter before I was done. I think this sounds like a very good plan to assist with building this herd at a reasonable and cost effective way. Win-Win for everybody. :tup:
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 12, 2011, 08:42:30 AM
That is because they handed out all those Cow permits :bash:If they close enough roads it is completely feasible that one day they can hand out as many permits as they do in the Observatory. :tup:
But there's no elk in the Observatory. :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: So yes, please send them to the Colockum. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
There is still Elk there, lots of Branched Bulls, but harvest numbers are still pretty shotty
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 12, 2011, 08:49:10 AM
That is because they handed out all those Cow permits :bash:If they close enough roads it is completely feasible that one day they can hand out as many permits as they do in the Observatory. :tup:
But there's no elk in the Observatory. :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: So yes, please send them to the Colockum. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
There is still Elk there, lots of Branched Bulls, but harvest numbers are still pretty shotty
I know because the Observatory is one of my favorite areas for elk and deer and it's been kind of a small scale joke between Clock and myself about the Observatory, kind of like the BMM and Colockum. No elk here or there but everywhere else. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: colockumelk on December 12, 2011, 03:48:17 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 12, 2011, 06:48:13 PM
The amount of elk has nothing to do with the success rates in the Observatory. In fact that PMU (Primary Management Unit) has more elk than tje Colockum, and the other two PMUs in the Yakima herd.I am just saying, when I first started hunting there in 1987, anything with hooves was legal, spikes were in groups of yearlings, some times a dozen in a group, other bulls ran around, there were 3-4 year old spikes with cows, branched bulls were few and far between, with 5pts being the norm, and elk all over the place.
Spike only regs came along, spikes dissapeared, but age class of branched bulls rocketed, 5 pts were plentiful, but more 6s, and 7s than before, Elk were still all over the place.
Then the WDFW figured out that 13,500 was too many, and issued 500+ ADDITIONAL antlerless permits, until the herd was estimated at 9,000, a reduction of almost 30%.
Now the Elk are still in the "good" spots, but nowhere near in the numbers they used to be, success rate went from 7.9% down to 2.9% you honestly think it is not in direct correlation to a the herd reduction ?
Access has not changed (well maybe last season), success rate has dropped, are you saying the hunting is worse because of LESS pressure ? :dunno: because hunter numbers are down,
It might have more Elk than other areas, but still less than it had.
Post by: colockumelk on December 12, 2011, 07:21:30 PM
Again please people do not take this as a road hunting bash. It is not my intent. I don't judge or care how people hunt. Just as long as they are getting out and enjoying time in the outdoors. My point is that I see alot more people up there driving the roads instead of walking. Road hunting has a very low success rate especially with a bow. That was my only point. I don't care if you hike 50miles or ride 500miles in a season. Just get out continue our sport and have fun. :tup:
Post by: colockumelk on December 12, 2011, 07:27:00 PM
But I know they are not going to do that. I know the WDFW will want to keep the Colockum elk herd at its objective level of 4,500 elk. Because this is the only thing that makes them look good since True Spike and the decrease of branch bull permits and their bull:cow ratio makes them look like :crap: The elk herd numbers is the only thing they can point to and make themselves look good in the public eye. Of course we all know they are :liar: because there is more to do with herd health than simply overall numbers. Anyways moving on. Here is how many cow permits I think that they will give out in the next three years. Over the next three years they will want to take the herd down from about 4,900 elk down to the objective level of 4,500. Also they have to account for about 500 female calves born every year. And figure that 5-10% of cows die every year. So that being said over the next three years they will want to harvest 400 surplus cows plus an additional 200 cows per year to keep the cow population stable. This means that the WDFW will want to harvest about 300-350 cows a year. So what does that mean for us in tags. Here is how I see the breakdown of tags occuring. The formula to decide this is first determine a total amount of animals you want to harvest. In this case we will say 300 total. Then divy up these 300 animals amongst the user groups. Rifle usually gets 60% of the harvest, Bow gets 25% and ML gets 15%. Then figure out a base line harvest success and you get a formula for how many tags each group gets. So lets see about how it would break down. These numbers would change based on actual success rates. And yes I guestimated these success rates and made them very liberal.
Archery: 225 tags for 75 cows at a 33% success rate
Muzzle Loader: 90 tags for 45 cows at a 50% success rate
Rifle: 230 tags for 180 cows at a 66% success rate
Post by: colockumelk on December 13, 2011, 10:34:48 AM
Post by: colockumelk on December 14, 2011, 08:30:48 AM
The Colockum Elk herd is currently at 4,900. The herd objective is 4,500. So we want to reduce the elk herd from 4,900 to 4,500 in 3 years. So we need to harvest 400 cows in 3 years. Every year 500 female calves become adults. But on the flip side of that coin due to natural mortality every year 300 cows die. So this means there is a "surplus" of 200 cows a year. So in order to reduce this herd by 400 cows, we will need to harvest about 350 cows a year. Once the elk herd is at its objective of 4,500 then we will want to harvest 200 cows a year to maintain a stable population. But remember as the bull:cow ratio climbs so does the calf:cow ratio. So as the number of calves being born each year increases so does the number of cow tags. :IBCOOL:
Okay so we know that for the next three years we want to harvest 350 cows a year. How does this break down into number of permits. Well first we need to get into that whole user group sharing thing. Typically rifle guys get 65% of the harvest, Bowhunters get 20% and Muzzle Loader guys get 15%. So rifle guys "own" 228 animals, bow hunters "own" 70 animals and the Muzzle Loader guys "own" 52 animals. Now that we have "shared" the animals and decided how much "pie" each group gets we have to look at what the success rates will be for each user group. Looking back through the records rifle hunters were very successfull when it comes to antlerless hunting. In fact they had on average a 85% success rate. Archers had about a 25% success rate and Muzzle Loader about 40% when it comes to cows. So the numbers would look like
Rifle: 228 animals x 85% success rate equals 270 permits
ML: 52 animals x 40% success rate equals permits 130 permits
Archery: 70 animals x 25% success rate equals 280 permits
Now just for fun lets say it was permit only for branch bulls. And you wanted to go harvest 200 bulls a year. It would look like this.
Rifle: 130 x 65% success rate equals 200 bull permits
ML: 30 animals x 40% success rate equals 75 bull permits
Arhcery: 40 animals x 20% success rate equals 200 bull permits.
Post by: rtspring on December 14, 2011, 08:35:28 AM
His name was Clyde Dameron.
Anyway, We seen tons of elk, I mean heards of 200 plus everyday. Sad to think that these elk are being killed off..
Keep it up colockum maybe some good will come out of it..
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 14, 2011, 08:54:44 AM
Post by: colockumelk on December 14, 2011, 05:35:50 PM
Post by: WenHunter on December 14, 2011, 05:53:34 PM
Post by: colockumelk on December 14, 2011, 07:26:29 PM
Post by: WenHunter on December 14, 2011, 07:31:08 PM