Post by: Hornseeker on December 26, 2011, 04:00:02 PM
Anyhow, I shoot an old Mauser 71E...its a great gun, but I"m sure I"ll need to upgrade someday...or if not upgrade...at least just get a new gun.
What do you want???
Post by: wildweeds on December 26, 2011, 04:19:18 PM
I started using the citori 20 about 20 years ago for phez over my springers.Iv'e got setters now,and really don't need any more gun than that over pointed birds,in fact you need to wait and let them get out a ways to keep from shooting them up to bad,The silver pigeon sees limited use at clay targets,the 20/28 is a clay buster as well,I use the .410 to help sharpen my shooting and keep my wallet from being totally empty,I get twice as many shells for clays with the same amount of lead from the reloader.
Post by: C-Money on December 26, 2011, 05:01:33 PM
Post by: Camp David on December 26, 2011, 05:47:52 PM
Post by: RadSav on December 26, 2011, 05:54:44 PM
The other nice thing about the Beretta is the chokes will also fit my Beretta and Franchi semi-autos.
I have no more 12 guages having switched everything over to 20s. Even on turkey and geese it gets the job done very nicely. Though I do shoot Heavy Shot or Remington HD on turkey and waterfowl.
Post by: Wacenturion on December 26, 2011, 05:56:53 PM
I personally prefer the 28, as not only are the guns light and fast swinging, but the ammo is also not an issue, weight wise, while covering terrain. I also prefer open chokes...skeet or improved, improved/ modified, which are all very forgiving at close ranges, as in under 25 yards.
My favorite....don't really have one other than perhaps the Remington 11-48 28 gauge bored skeet, which accounted for lots of birds and few missed shots over my Red Setters years ago. More of a memory favorite...just didn't ever miss with that gun.
Just personal preference.....20's are also nice, if light. Any gauge above that are not upland guns in my opinion, and your just packing extra weight in both gun and shells ....but again....just my opinion.
Post by: Hornseeker on December 26, 2011, 06:57:30 PM
A month ago, I would not have considered anything but a 12... but some recent discussions with friends have prompted me... as for the 12... at my age, strength...etc... I dont mind the 8 pound gun and the recoil is not felt... shells are cheaper too and frankly, cmon...range and effectiveness is going to be at least as good if not better than any other gauge...
But... being an open minded sort, I am all ears... 20 is sounding better all the time... 28????
Post by: Stilly bay on December 26, 2011, 07:48:07 PM
I have spent most of my hunting career with a SxS ugartechea, AYA, or fox - if steel shot is called for then I usually just used one of my duck guns.
but lately I have been dreaming about a perfect for me, steel shot friendly, upland bird gun... and it happens to be an O/U
Im going to start with a beretta 686, 20 gauge with 30 inch barrels. Im going swap the factory stock out for one with some cast and purty swirls. and then for the coup de grace I will have it converted to TWO triggers. two triggers and interchangeable choke tubes makes for the swiss army knife of guns IMO.
at least thats what I have been dreaming/obsessing about lately.
Post by: Hornseeker on December 26, 2011, 08:10:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 26, 2011, 08:19:54 PM
That way I can easily switch to the full choke for my first shot if a bird jumps up a little too far out. I like to use 1 1/4 ounce of 5's or 6's in both barrels.
Post by: Stilly bay on December 26, 2011, 08:52:52 PM
but what makes an SXS any better than an O/U...and if so, why would your new dream gun be an O/U???
absolutely nothing, its all personal preference.
Im going with the O/U because I believe that two mechanical triggers are far superior to one inertia trigger and a barrel selector. thats the main reason why I haven't plunked down the money for an O/U seems like you can only get double triggers on really cheap O/U or super expensive ones.
when I heard that you can get double trigger conversions done for the beretta 680 series I was back in the game.
Post by: AWS on December 26, 2011, 08:58:32 PM
Like Stillybay I'm looking at a new steel shot shotgun 20ga SXS choke tubes and double triggers again 6 lbs to replace my 20ga auto for all my waterfowl hunting.
Post by: MR5x5 on December 26, 2011, 09:26:55 PM
Post by: Stilly bay on December 26, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
Like Stillybay I'm looking at a new steel shot shotgun 20ga SXS choke tubes and double triggers again 6 lbs to replace my 20ga auto for all my waterfowl hunting.
im sure you have looked at the CZ bobwhite by now. it can handle steel and it doesn't have a mushy action like alot of the affordable doubles have these days.
I almost bought a 28gauge bobwhite, but they don't make them with 28" or 30" barrels, which is a deal breaker for me on small gauged guns.
Im not sure what the weight is though.
Post by: Miles on December 26, 2011, 10:00:57 PM
With that said, it really depends how the gun fits YOU. I would look around though and find a 101 to shoulder/shoot, I think you'll be impressed. I've got one that has had thousands of rounds through it (skeet/trap leagues) and it's still going strong. I always keep my eyes open in gun shops and places I go for another one that is of good quality and for a decent price. When I find another one that is well taken care of, it will be going home with me.
Cabelas in Post Falls had one that was listed for around $1,300 when I was there in October. It was in decent condition and in their gun library on the right as you walked in.
Post by: Stilly bay on December 26, 2011, 10:07:39 PM
Post by: Miles on December 26, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
I'm not sure if they changed anything with the newer ones, but the older model 101's are very nice handling guns. I'm keeping an open spot in the safe for another one...
Post by: Wacenturion on December 26, 2011, 10:14:26 PM
How does a 28 compare to a 20???
A month ago, I would not have considered anything but a 12... but some recent discussions with friends have prompted me... as for the 12... at my age, strength...etc... I dont mind the 8 pound gun and the recoil is not felt... shells are cheaper too and frankly, cmon...range and effectiveness is going to be at least as good if not better than any other gauge...
But... being an open minded sort, I am all ears... 20 is sounding better all the time... 28????
Here's a couple interesting reads on 28's.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/longgun_reviews_28gauge_073106/
Also.............From the Firing Line.......someone's opinion
Why a 28 gauge?
My buddy Fjolnirsson asked.
Yes I know we have threads on the 28 gauge, then again, can one really have too many threads on the 28 gauge? NO
-As most know the Game of Skeet there are four gauges allowed and used; 12, 20, 28 gauge and the .410. Many Folks, such as myself shot all 4 events.
I might as well again mention Bob Brister's book - Shotgunning : The Art & Science Yes it is an older publication, still chocked full of most questions we see on gun forums today. Try www.abebooks.com
-Shotguns really are Art & Science, and truism is "The .28 gauge is better than it is supposed to be".
There exists a wonderful and unique ratio of the 28 ga and its 3/4 oz payload to its .540 bore. One can look at any Tote Board at any Skeet Range and the highest scores are in 28 gauge.
The 28 gauge "hits harder" simply because of this unique ratio of payload to bore, the shot string is short.
Allow me to clarify for newer folks. Shotgun pellets do not all arrive at the same time to a target. Take a garden hose with a trigger sprayer and "shoot a shot of water". Notice how the water does not all arrive at the target at the same time? Same principle applies to pellet loadings from a shotgun.
Flying targets , be they clays or birds can literally "fly thru" and load of pellets, in part due to "long shot stringing". There are other factors such as pattern density and all, I will get into that aspect.
The gist is - with a long shot string, by the time all the shot finally arrives, a bird can be missed.
- There is a Rule of 96, basic premise is the Weight of Gun in ounces to weight of payload in ounces and the RECOIL.
96 ounces equal 6 pounds. So the English came up with a 6 pound gun shooting a 1 oz load was "correct and mangagable". Actually the 11/16 oz load used in 12 bore was "proper". This is a great load, and we Silly Americans are just now realizing how good this load is - even though we use a 7/8 oz load in 12 ga. 11/16 - 7/8 real darn close. The English felt a 1 1/8 oz load was "heavy" and 1 1/4 oz loading was "magnum".
- 28 gauge- Skeet shooters in competition shoot 4 boxes of 25 shells, 100 rds in each event. Less Recoil for 100 rds, with a short string, heavy hitting payload - translates into higher scores.
Also translates into building confidence, self esteem and this enables a shooter to focus on correct basic fundamentals, focus on target and the cycle repeats.
Getting whacked with a ill fitting gun , with heavy payloads with improper mounting gun to face is going to cause flinching, getting fatigue, missing targets, getting frustrated, missing more targets...
We will speak of this again later.
Hence one the reason Competition guns in 12 ga , especially tube sets, weigh ~ 8#s. Rule of 96.
[8* 16ozs = 128...well you can figure the target load to gun weight and how this works for less felt recoil, multiplied X 100 rds per event ,and if shooting all 4 events plus any special event such as doubles or pump gun events]
- Hunting where there is a lot of walking and less shooting, the 28 ga is easy to tote, and still / most often the most effective Gauge to use for quail and other game birds. Small game such as rabbit and squirrel too.
Toting a 7.5# gun gets mighty heavy , especially for a new shooter, a lady, a kid, elderly person...
Again I will touch on this more later.
- Dove hunting.
Well some of you folks not only believe - also support the idea Shot Shell Mfgs invented Dove Season to sell more shells
Them gray missles with afterburners on, dipping, diving, shucking and jiving...
just like shooting a competititon of 4 boxes of skeet ...that heavy load , recoil, gun that does not fit...frustrates the living daylights out of you.
YOU "know" you "hit it"....umm remember them long shot strings? Gray Missle shot thru the "hole" in long shot string.
With a More Effecient loading of [short shot string] 28 ga , in a less recoil gun, you can continue to correctly mount gun to face, focus on the Dove, and that hard hitting short shot string will fell them.
-Learning to shoot.
Most kids get a .410 single shot to learn on. Granted some kids are small.
The .410 is the most inefficient load to bore ratio - go check out any tote board and scores.
Kids, ladies, small framed shooters, elderly, those with Physcial Limits...etc are being done a disservice learning on a .410.
Kids : "I got this wimpy kids gun and I cannot hit nothing".
Ditto for Ladies and other new shooters. These folks get turned off shooting.
New shooters need to make hits. One reason for little kids and ladies I use Popcorn Kernals instead of lead pellets in reloads so less recoil and they break balloons, even in .410.
Confidence.
Explain to a kid, they are not quite big enough, still you really really want them to learn and doing the best can with a .410. That kid, will respect the honesty, sincerity, and understand and learn. They will continue to shoot a .22 rifle and understand "they want me to, just I gotta get bigger before I can do shotguns better".
- Now get that kid a H&R Topper in 28 gauge, and they have "big person's gun". They will dust that stationary clay, blow a soda can to smithereens! The first targets from a clay target, or low 7 with break with authority! That first quail,dove rabbit, or squirrel - will "fell hard".
Remember this for later as well.
-1100 in 28 ga is what I prefer to start a new shooter with, teenager, and up no matter if a 6'4 adult male. I want to instill correct basic fundamentals and not worry about recoil or anything taking away from correct basic fundamenatals - while they powder targets
Once instilled, easy to transition to a 870 pump gun, or SxS or O/U in 28 ga.
Easy to transition to MY next favorite teaching shotgun - a Semi-Auto in 20 ga. I believe in working up as the student can to always maintain the correct basics, instill confidence and breaking targets.
-Age & Injuries.
I have worked with, know folks that detached Retinas , shoulder , neck , back surgeries. Doctors orders they Cannot shoot for some time, maybe never again. In some cases, with time and Dr's approval they can again shoot lighter recoil guns. Some are restricted to .22 lr, or .410. Quite a few can and are allowed to shoot the 28 ga. The 1100 again works real well.
In fact there is 28 gauge only Trap, and 5 stand ( other disciplines) set up by Detached Retina shooters first - then other physical limited shooter joined in.
These are fun! Challenging and allows shooters to once again shoot competition in something other than skeet. The 28 ga allows them to hunt again -within limits.
Elderly, arthritis can again tote that 28 ga, and take a grandson hunting, or shoot at a club.
- But the 28 gauge is too expenzive to shoot unless you shoot skeet
NO!! I beg to differ and my take:
How much is kid worth? How much is a Grandparent worth? How much is a person with a Physical Limit worth?
A heck of a lot IMO, in fact one cannot put a monetary value on these persons. You cannot put a value on a kid, learning and turning out to be OUR Future on Responsible Firearm Ownership. You cannot put a value on Grandparents getting to take that last hunt with grandkids, kids, family and friends.
$100 for a MEC single stage to reload 28 ga shells is a great investment in kids, family, friends, and passing forward Responsible Firearm Ownership.
I'm going to hit below the belt with one example, and I have others-
On a shelf in a den there is a Dove in a glass box a taxidermist did.
That was the first shot a little girl took on her first ever hunt, a dove hunt. That was the last hunt her Grandpa , her only surviving grandparent ever went on again. The little puppy grew old, and finally passed on that attended that hunt.
Little girl is a lady now, she still has that H&R Topper in 28 ga, and MEC reloader her and grandpa spent quality time on - and mom, daddy passed away when she was two.
I was there that day, and no amount of money would I take for having assisted that little girl learning on a 28 ga, being there when she felled that first dove, and outrunning the puppy to retrieve it.
Why a 28 gauge?
I believe in it for a whole lot of reasons - proven.
Post by: Stilly bay on December 26, 2011, 10:35:19 PM
another down side is unless you reload your steel shot options are very limited. but if you do reload there are some very fine 1oz lead reload recipes available that are good grouse/pheasant medicine.
in the hands of an experienced shooter with pointing dogs a 28 is a great tool as long as one can show some restraint.
Post by: wildweeds on December 26, 2011, 11:04:16 PM
Post by: AWS on December 26, 2011, 11:57:07 PM
The 101 was one of the few O/U that had mechanical triggers so if the first barrel failed to fire(cheap asian shotshells) all you had to do was pull the trigger again to get the second barrel to fire, no shifting the barrel selector or bumping the butt.
The 101 was a joint venture with Olin and Kendosha Manufacturing and are marked Olin-Kendosha on the bottom of the reciever they also made Nikko shotguns. The early ones were exactly the same shotgun right down to the engraving the only difference was the labeling one had Winchester over the makers mark and the other Nikko and the Nikko clones were only marketed in the far east and europe I still have one of each.
Miruko only produced Charles Dalys and Brownings unless that changed in the late 80's. The Miruko Charles Dalys were great handling O/U and are very under rated I would put them very close in quality to the Browning Superpose.
Yes the Bobwhite is the one I'm looking at, nice enough to feel like a good shotgun yet not so expensive that I have to worry about a salt spray on it.
Post by: AWS on December 27, 2011, 02:19:04 PM
AWS
Post by: fethrduster on December 27, 2011, 05:01:22 PM
Obviously, the O/U is sorta the traditional and desired upland gun..
What do you want???
I've never heard an o/u described as "traditional" before. Interesting how times change.
Post by: wildweeds on December 27, 2011, 05:10:17 PM
Parker,Fox,L.C.Smith would be traditional and all SXS
quote author=fethrduster link=topic=89410.msg1131649#msg1131649 date=1325034082]
Obviously, the O/U is sorta the traditional and desired upland gun..
What do you want???
I've never heard an o/u described as "traditional" before. Interesting how times change.
[/quote]
Post by: Stilly bay on December 27, 2011, 05:21:49 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 28, 2011, 01:00:21 AM
Post by: fethrduster on December 28, 2011, 08:36:30 AM
I guess it all depends on how far your tradition goes back. if it weren't for finding a moldy box of burton spiller, george bird evans, and charlie waterman books when I was a kid I wouldn't have any upland tradition and probably no idea what upland bird hunting tradition is.
I'm in my late 40's, so I guess if you live long enough, you're exposed to upland tradition sooner or later. I used to shoot an 8lb 12ga Weatherby Orion o/u when I was younger and didn't know any different, and then I picked up a slim, svelte 6lb 16ga belgian sxs at a gun shop, and I couldn't believe how much livelier it felt. I could wrap my whole hand around the shallow receiver, a big change from the o/u I was used to. After I bought it, my shooting improved dramatically. Scored my first triple on chukars with that gun, and I've never looked back. I only have four guns now, but they're all sxs's (two are hammer guns), all from the 1880's to the 1930's, the golden era of gun making.
Post by: predatorpro on December 28, 2011, 08:51:52 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on December 28, 2011, 09:46:48 PM
And yeah, believe it or not, an O/U is considered a traditional upland gun now... when I think SXS...I think of grouse hunting in Hew Hampshire or something like that! But I love SXS's too... will carry my old 20 sxs some next year for sure.
Post by: Miles on December 28, 2011, 09:52:01 PM
I handled a 20 gauge superposed today that I flat out loved the feel of...
And yeah, believe it or not, an O/U is considered a traditional upland gun now... when I think SXS...I think of grouse hunting in Hew Hampshire or something like that! But I love SXS's too... will carry my old 20 sxs some next year for sure.
C'mon Hornseeker, give a guy some credit.... I used my O/U for grouse hunting in New Hampshire. Sure it's not "Hew" Hampshire, but it's close enough. :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on December 28, 2011, 11:11:53 PM
Post by: Miles on December 28, 2011, 11:33:22 PM
I have a 12ga in a win 101, a 20ga in a ruger red label and a 28ga in a ruger red label. The 12 is my least favorite. It is just so big and bulky.
The 101 is a thicker gun, but that is also what I like about it. This is where it comes down to personal preference and fit with O/U shotguns. I am just the opposite of Bigshooter, I can't stand the narrow skinny feel of the Ruger. I find it to be "jumpy" when swinging on targets. I like the smooth swing of the bigger 101 (if that makes any sense).
Post by: Stilly bay on December 28, 2011, 11:45:55 PM
I have a 12ga in a win 101, a 20ga in a ruger red label and a 28ga in a ruger red label. The 12 is my least favorite. It is just so big and bulky.
The 101 is a thicker gun, but that is also what I like about it. This is where it comes down to personal preference and fit with O/U shotguns. I am just the opposite of Bigshooter, I can't stand the narrow skinny feel of the Ruger. I find it to be "jumpy" when swinging on targets. I like the smooth swing of the bigger 101 (if that makes any sense).
I agree, maybe its because Im a bigger dude, but if a 28 gauge doesn't have 30" or longer Bbls it just doesn't feel right to me. there are many 28's built on 20 gauge frames and those are a lot less whippy and more forgiving when standard shorter bbls are involved. but like I stated earlier in this thread : if your going to get a 28gauge built on a 20 gauge frame why not just save yourself some money (if you already own a 20gauge ) and get some gauge reducers.
Post by: 101521 on December 29, 2011, 06:51:24 AM
It's all personal preference though and what feels good to you when you shoulder/swing the gun.
Post by: ing on December 29, 2011, 07:14:11 AM
Post by: 509 on January 05, 2012, 07:05:41 PM
Not sure what the fuss is all about. It is a Russian gun a Baikal. It shoots. So much for over/under.
My heart still belongs to a 20 side by side by SKB. Technically, I gifted it to my daughter, but she is currently going through her "Seattle phase" in life" so I get to shoot it for the time being.
Why would anybody shoot anything, but a side by side? Oh, fads they come and go.
Post by: follow maggie on January 05, 2012, 08:43:42 PM
Post by: fethrduster on January 06, 2012, 07:51:51 AM
Post by: Johnb317 on January 06, 2012, 08:11:16 AM
If I didn't go for a Ruger I'd look at something like my brother carries... 20 guage Fiacci (sp?) a pound or more lighter, so nice for those long days in the field, and when you have to be quicker than your younger brother.
Dollar for dollar I think you're best with the Ruger. imho
Post by: ing on January 06, 2012, 08:27:56 AM
I hunt with a Ruger Red label 20 guage.... made in the USA need I say more! No external screws etc either... check it out.I agree. The Redlabel is my favorite shotgun. Too bad they discontinued them this year....
If I didn't go for a Ruger I'd look at something like my brother carries... 20 guage Fiacci (sp?) a pound or more lighter, so nice for those long days in the field, and when you have to be quicker than your younger brother.
Dollar for dollar I think you're best with the Ruger. imho
Post by: Johnb317 on January 06, 2012, 08:42:48 AM
If I had the money I'd pick up a spare!!
Wrong move by Sturm Ruger!
Post by: trippledigitss on January 06, 2012, 09:10:28 AM
Post by: ing on January 06, 2012, 09:17:46 AM
Agreed :bdid:
Wrong move by Sturm Ruger!
Post by: Stilly bay on January 06, 2012, 10:33:30 AM
Post by: ing on January 06, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
I havnt read any statements about it, but the Redlabel definitely isnt on their website anymore..Agreed :bdid:
Wrong move by Sturm Ruger!
Hadn't heard this yet. Did they make a statement saying this? I know they quit making the sxs a few years back. I may have to grab another too. Got a 12 have been wanting a 20.
Post by: Ellensburg on January 06, 2012, 04:19:51 PM
I just liked the classic looking gun more than the normal model.
I love the gun. I'll probably never use another upland gun in my life and I will hand it down to my children.
Post by: quacksmoker on January 06, 2012, 07:18:35 PM
Post by: CP on January 08, 2012, 09:26:20 AM
I've got a 1983, 12 guage Citori o/u. I take it out every now and then, but just don't like the feel. Looking to sell it and move into the SxS. Lately, I have been using my Urika 2 for waterfowl.
Interested in trading the Citori for a Sterlingworth Fox 12g?
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on January 08, 2012, 09:38:59 PM
2nd O/U purchased is a Franchi Alcoine LF in 20 GA with 26 inch barrels, 3 inch chambers and choke tubes. Picked this up after one of my hunting partners started hunting with an Ithaca (SKB) O/U in 20 GA. Franchi is light and fast and fun to hunt with for all upland birds. Was able to get my first double on Sharptail Grouse with this gun.
Latest purchase was an Uggie (Ugartechea) Grade 1 Boxllock SxS in 12 GA with 28 inch barrels, 2 3/4 inch chambers, double triggers and straight english stock. Chokes are fixed modified/full. Gun is a little less than 7 lbs and has a very good feel to it. Have hunted with it once and was able to harvest my first two chukars. Still trying to get used to the double triggers. This is my first SxS so the jury is still out. Planning on using spreader loads for ruffed grouse and tight holding birds over GSPs/GWPs.
Next purchase (hopefully) will be a 6 lb. - 20 or 28 gauge Sidelock SxS with 26 inch barrels, double triggers and straight stock. Would appreciate any recommendations on affordable, lively, small gauge sidelocks to consider.
Post by: Stilly bay on January 08, 2012, 11:28:28 PM
What I was told when I started out on this double gun obsession was: "don't shop for a specific brand of gun, shop for the gun that fits you best" IMO words to live by once you start dealing with "sidelock" money.
a good "inexpensive" honest sidelock to look for is an AYA .112 -not a whole lot of them around but you can sometimes find them in great condition for less than $1500. plus they have that nifty thumb screw so you can take it apart and show your buddies.
either that or get yourself a new or used sidelock uggie from LCS, they have plenty of steals going on in the used gun dept right now.
pay attention to DAC, DAH, cast on or off and LOP makes sure its something you can live with or don't mind altering. if you buy the gun sight unseen and have a return option measure all the dimensions yourself. if they don't have a return policy DON'T BUY IT.
:twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
hopefully others will chime in too.
Post by: C-Money on January 09, 2012, 06:39:48 AM
Post by: whitey on January 09, 2012, 06:44:08 AM
Post by: 10Key on January 09, 2012, 08:00:12 AM
Post by: fethrduster on January 09, 2012, 03:31:40 PM
First O/U I started with, is a 60's Browning Citori 12 GA (Miroku) with 28 inch barrels, 3 in. chambers that I had fitted with Colonial Arms Thin Wall Choke Tubes. I have used this gun for everything from Geese to Pheasants to Grouse, Huns and Quail.
2nd O/U purchased is a Franchi Alcoine LF in 20 GA with 26 inch barrels, 3 inch chambers and choke tubes. Picked this up after one of my hunting partners started hunting with an Ithaca (SKB) O/U in 20 GA. Franchi is light and fast and fun to hunt with for all upland birds. Was able to get my first double on Sharptail Grouse with this gun.
Latest purchase was an Uggie (Ugartechea) Grade 1 Boxllock SxS in 12 GA with 28 inch barrels, 2 3/4 inch chambers, double triggers and straight english stock. Chokes are fixed modified/full. Gun is a little less than 7 lbs and has a very good feel to it. Have hunted with it once and was able to harvest my first two chukars. Still trying to get used to the double triggers. This is my first SxS so the jury is still out. Planning on using spreader loads for ruffed grouse and tight holding birds over GSPs/GWPs.
Next purchase (hopefully) will be a 6 lb. - 20 or 28 gauge Sidelock SxS with 26 inch barrels, double triggers and straight stock. Would appreciate any recommendations on affordable, lively, small gauge sidelocks to consider.
Find yourself a 6lb or less 16ga straight stocked sidelock, and you'll never want to shoot anything else. Weighs the same or less as most 20's, and outperforms them too. "Hits like a 12, carries like a 20", is an apt addage.
Post by: trippledigitss on January 10, 2012, 09:31:36 AM
trippledigitss, I was looking at the Optima Silver Select the other day. Is the mossberg that you have a turkish built shotgun? The Silver Select is, and has a nice walnut stock. They look well made, I kinda want to pick one up!
Yes I am pretty sure it is. I remember reading something in the info that came with it about the Turkish Co. that makes them but I cant remember who. I'd have to look it up. For the price I have been really happy with it. Even with 28" barrels, overall its a lot shorter than the 'big name' guns, but its light & easy to swing. I just wish I could get up into the 20's with it..... Never heard of the Optima?
Post by: AWS on January 10, 2012, 09:32:11 AM
This past season I hunted with a 6 lb 12ga SxS with DT and very light 28" barrels, it is a dream to carry and quick handelling.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FshotgunsSKBDarne016.jpg&hash=e5dbb6dbec977697f2cf07c042dc318228f99d4b)
Post by: trippledigitss on January 10, 2012, 09:34:26 AM
trippledigitss, I was looking at the Optima Silver Select the other day. Is the mossberg that you have a turkish built shotgun? The Silver Select is, and has a nice walnut stock. They look well made, I kinda want to pick one up!
Oh I see that Optima is made by Hatsan - the same people that make the Escort auto loaders I have that are imported by Legacy Sports. I have been really happy with those guns as well. They make another O/U that looks similar to that Optima but it had another name - cant remember though
Post by: C-Money on January 10, 2012, 10:22:08 AM
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on January 11, 2012, 06:36:29 PM
First O/U I started with, is a 60's Browning Citori 12 GA (Miroku) with 28 inch barrels, 3 in. chambers that I had fitted with Colonial Arms Thin Wall Choke Tubes. I have used this gun for everything from Geese to Pheasants to Grouse, Huns and Quail.
2nd O/U purchased is a Franchi Alcoine LF in 20 GA with 26 inch barrels, 3 inch chambers and choke tubes. Picked this up after one of my hunting partners started hunting with an Ithaca (SKB) O/U in 20 GA. Franchi is light and fast and fun to hunt with for all upland birds. Was able to get my first double on Sharptail Grouse with this gun.
Latest purchase was an Uggie (Ugartechea) Grade 1 Boxllock SxS in 12 GA with 28 inch barrels, 2 3/4 inch chambers, double triggers and straight english stock. Chokes are fixed modified/full. Gun is a little less than 7 lbs and has a very good feel to it. Have hunted with it once and was able to harvest my first two chukars. Still trying to get used to the double triggers. This is my first SxS so the jury is still out. Planning on using spreader loads for ruffed grouse and tight holding birds over GSPs/GWPs.
Next purchase (hopefully) will be a 6 lb. - 20 or 28 gauge Sidelock SxS with 26 inch barrels, double triggers and straight stock. Would appreciate any recommendations on affordable, lively, small gauge sidelocks to consider.
Find yourself a 6lb or less 16ga straight stocked sidelock, and you'll never want to shoot anything else. Weighs the same or less as most 20's, and outperforms them too. "Hits like a 12, carries like a 20", is an apt addage.
Duster, PM me if you run into a reasonable 6 lb. sidelock in 16 GA or smaller!
Post by: fethrduster on January 26, 2012, 02:06:40 PM
First O/U I started with, is a 60's Browning Citori 12 GA (Miroku) with 28 inch barrels, 3 in. chambers that I had fitted with Colonial Arms Thin Wall Choke Tubes. I have used this gun for everything from Geese to Pheasants to Grouse, Huns and Quail.
2nd O/U purchased is a Franchi Alcoine LF in 20 GA with 26 inch barrels, 3 inch chambers and choke tubes. Picked this up after one of my hunting partners started hunting with an Ithaca (SKB) O/U in 20 GA. Franchi is light and fast and fun to hunt with for all upland birds. Was able to get my first double on Sharptail Grouse with this gun.
Latest purchase was an Uggie (Ugartechea) Grade 1 Boxllock SxS in 12 GA with 28 inch barrels, 2 3/4 inch chambers, double triggers and straight english stock. Chokes are fixed modified/full. Gun is a little less than 7 lbs and has a very good feel to it. Have hunted with it once and was able to harvest my first two chukars. Still trying to get used to the double triggers. This is my first SxS so the jury is still out. Planning on using spreader loads for ruffed grouse and tight holding birds over GSPs/GWPs.
Next purchase (hopefully) will be a 6 lb. - 20 or 28 gauge Sidelock SxS with 26 inch barrels, double triggers and straight stock. Would appreciate any recommendations on affordable, lively, small gauge sidelocks to consider.
Find yourself a 6lb or less 16ga straight stocked sidelock, and you'll never want to shoot anything else. Weighs the same or less as most 20's, and outperforms them too. "Hits like a 12, carries like a 20", is an apt addage.
Duster, PM me if you run into a reasonable 6 lb. sidelock in 16 GA or smaller!
I'll keep my eyes open! I'm currently customizing a 5 3/4lb 16ga sidelock beautifully engraved hammer gun that is going to be my skeet/grouse gun. It was 6 lbs even, but I shaved off the pistol grip and cheek piece, hollowed out the stock a bit, and converted it to a straight grip. It has 30" open choked steel barrels, is lightning quick, and points like a wand. They are out there, and they're not all expensive either. If you would consider a hammer gun, drop me a pm. I think I know where I can find you one.
Post by: Stilly bay on January 26, 2012, 05:04:31 PM
[/quote]
I'm currently customizing a 5 3/4lb 16ga sidelock beautifully engraved hammer gun that is going to be my skeet/grouse gun. It was 6 lbs even, but I shaved off the pistol grip and cheek piece, hollowed out the stock a bit, and converted it to a straight grip. It has 30" open choked steel barrels, is lightning quick, and points like a wand. They are out there, and they're not all expensive either. If you would consider a hammer gun, drop me a pm. I think I know where I can find you one.
[/quote]
how bout some pics
Post by: quadrafire on January 26, 2012, 05:14:29 PM
how bout some pics
:yeah:
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on January 26, 2012, 05:29:17 PM
Post by: fethrduster on January 27, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
how bout some pics
:yeah:
I'd be happy to, but I may be submitting it in an article to the Double Gun Journal, so I'd rather not post pics online just yet. Feel free to pm me for some. I'm lengthening the trigger guard tang and having it engraved to match, I still have to blue the barrels, and I'm adding intricately painted leaves, vines, birds/dog over a silver leaf base on the upper third of the comb and through the wrist, to mimic the deep relief leaf engraving on the side plates. I've never seen this done before, and if it turns out well, it's going to be my show piece (I do this for a living). You can see some of my other before/after pics at www.marklarsongunart.com. (http://www.marklarsongunart.com.) Thanks!
Post by: CP on January 27, 2012, 06:50:47 AM
1914 Sterlingworth Fox – 12g. The forearm wood isn’t original, I might replace that with something slimmer. But it’s a fine handling gun and I’ve cooked up some bismuth loads for it. Shoots great and can really reach out on touch them.
Post by: Stilly bay on January 27, 2012, 12:04:26 PM
how bout some pics
:yeah:
I'd be happy to, but I may be submitting it in an article to the Double Gun Journal, so I'd rather not post pics online just yet. Feel free to pm me for some. I'm lengthening the trigger guard tang and having it engraved to match, I still have to blue the barrels, and I'm adding intricately painted leaves, vines, birds/dog over a silver leaf base on the upper third of the comb and through the wrist, to mimic the deep relief leaf engraving on the side plates. I've never seen this done before, and if it turns out well, it's going to be my show piece (I do this for a living). You can see some of my other before/after pics at www.marklarsongunart.com. (http://www.marklarsongunart.com.) Thanks!
I have looked through your website numerous times! you are truly an artist, absolutely amazing work .
Post by: fethrduster on January 27, 2012, 05:59:39 PM
how bout some pics
:yeah:
I'd be happy to, but I may be submitting it in an article to the Double Gun Journal, so I'd rather not post pics online just yet. Feel free to pm me for some. I'm lengthening the trigger guard tang and having it engraved to match, I still have to blue the barrels, and I'm adding intricately painted leaves, vines, birds/dog over a silver leaf base on the upper third of the comb and through the wrist, to mimic the deep relief leaf engraving on the side plates. I've never seen this done before, and if it turns out well, it's going to be my show piece (I do this for a living). You can see some of my other before/after pics at www.marklarsongunart.com. (http://www.marklarsongunart.com.) Thanks!
I have looked through your website numerous times! you are truly an artist, absolutely amazing work .
Thank you!
Post by: fethrduster on January 27, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
This will be my upland gun next season, at least sometimes.
1914 Sterlingworth Fox – 12g. The forearm wood isn’t original, I might replace that with something slimmer. But it’s a fine handling gun and I’ve cooked up some bismuth loads for it. Shoots great and can really reach out on touch them.
Lovely! You could order a replacement splinter forearm from several stock duplicators online (probably about $30) and have it refinished and re-checkered. Pretty simple.
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on January 28, 2012, 09:41:06 PM
Thanks for the PM and lead on the spanish boxlock in 16 GA! Just couldn't swing it right now but I am going to stay in the game for both a new pointer and a small gauge double.
One of my hunting partners is looking for a 16 GA double but he prefers a single trigger.
Duster, I think I will stay away from a hammer gun ... thanks for the consideration! :yeah:
Post by: Goshawk on February 14, 2012, 08:20:30 PM
back in the early 80's I saw a RRL that had custom barrels fitted in 308 Winchester. I figured if the action was that strong it would last.
20,000+ mixed shotgun rounds later the action still locks up as tight as when I bought it.
Post by: jetjockey on February 22, 2012, 05:45:39 PM
Now, with that said, I love O/U's. My go to gun is a Beretta 686 White Onyx 20 gauge with 28 inch barrels. Its been great on wild quail, planted quail, planted pheasants, and late season December South Dakota roosters. I prefer a 20 guage just because its so much lighter then a 12 gauge, and IMO there isn't enough difference in killing power to pack around a 12 gauge all day. Ive also found that for me, the third shot from a pump or semi doesn't mean too much. I tend to quick shoot the first shot from my 870 12 gauge before I settle down on the last two shots, essentialy wasting a shot. There has been one or two times hunting pheasants in SD that I was glad I was carrying my 870 that I grew up with, but there has been a lot more times I was glad I was carrying my much lighter 686. My 686 with 1 oz of 4 shot at about 1300 FPS through a mod choke is pure death on late season wild pheasants.. You simply don't need anything more then that......
If you really want a classic gun, it has to by a SxS. There is a reason the American classic Elsie's, Parkers, Fox's, etc are so expensive. But, a lot of guys can't get the sight picture down on a SxS, and they prefer a single barrel sighting plane. I don't shoot SxS's as well as my O/U, but my next gun will most likely be a SxS AYA 453 from Cabelas in 20 gauge with 29 inch barrels. Or possibly an AYA #2 Round Body in 20 gauge with 28 or 29 inch barrels. I absolutely LOVE the #2 RB, and IMO its the best bang for the buck for a really nice sidelock that steps up a lot in quality. However, at a starting price of about $5500 new, I won't have a #2 in my hands anytime soon.
As far as double's go, everyone has their favorites, but I really like Berettas. IMO Ruger Red Labels are WAY to heavy and not nearly the quality of a Beretta or Browning. Brownings IMO are a little bigger and heavier then the Berettas, and the just don't feel right in my hands. But they are a quality gun. IMO the best value in O/U's is probably Mirokus. They built guns for Charles Dailys, Brownings, and they also sold guns with just the Miroku name. They can often be found for under $1000 and they are built with the same quality, or better, then guns that are twice as expensive. I would say they are easily equal to the Beretta 686 line of guns, just not as pretty.... My all time favorite O/U though is Conneticut Shotgun Manufacturing's new A-10. My Father in Law bought one in 20 gauge with a English stock and double triggers. Im not a fan of the stock or double triggers on an O/U, but besides that... WOW!!!! What an absolutely gorgeous and wonderfully swinging gun.
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on February 22, 2012, 07:05:56 PM
A friend of ours inherited two LC Smiths (12 and 20 Gauges) from his grandfather and they are beauts!! His GF was frugal in most things, but he sure had eye for quality doubles. One of the guns was retrofitted with Westley Richards Barrels! :drool:
Post by: Stilly bay on February 22, 2012, 10:31:43 PM
I've lived just outside Atlanta now for almost 5 years, but my heart and my home will always be in the Northwest. With that said, if you want a traditional double gun it won't be an O/U. Traditional shotguns in the U.S. for hunting upland birds are classic American SxS's like the LC Smiths, Parkers, Ithaca's, Fox's, etc. It could easily be argued that traditional upland hunting began down here in the south hunting quail on family farms off horseback with a mule drawn carriage with an American SxS in your hand. Simply put, there is nothing more classic then an American SxS in American upland hunting... O/U's aren't really classic shotguns IMO.
Now, with that said, I love O/U's. My go to gun is a Beretta 686 White Onyx 20 gauge with 28 inch barrels. Its been great on wild quail, planted quail, planted pheasants, and late season December South Dakota roosters. I prefer a 20 guage just because its so much lighter then a 12 gauge, and IMO there isn't enough difference in killing power to pack around a 12 gauge all day. Ive also found that for me, the third shot from a pump or semi doesn't mean too much. I tend to quick shoot the first shot from my 870 12 gauge before I settle down on the last two shots, essentialy wasting a shot. There has been one or two times hunting pheasants in SD that I was glad I was carrying my 870 that I grew up with, but there has been a lot more times I was glad I was carrying my much lighter 686. My 686 with 1 oz of 4 shot at about 1300 FPS through a mod choke is pure death on late season wild pheasants.. You simply don't need anything more then that......
If you really want a classic gun, it has to by a SxS. There is a reason the American classic Elsie's, Parkers, Fox's, etc are so expensive. But, a lot of guys can't get the sight picture down on a SxS, and they prefer a single barrel sighting plane. I don't shoot SxS's as well as my O/U, but my next gun will most likely be a SxS AYA 453 from Cabelas in 20 gauge with 29 inch barrels. Or possibly an AYA #2 Round Body in 20 gauge with 28 or 29 inch barrels. I absolutely LOVE the #2 RB, and IMO its the best bang for the buck for a really nice sidelock that steps up a lot in quality. However, at a starting price of about $5500 new, I won't have a #2 in my hands anytime soon.
As far as double's go, everyone has their favorites, but I really like Berettas. IMO Ruger Red Labels are WAY to heavy and not nearly the quality of a Beretta or Browning. Brownings IMO are a little bigger and heavier then the Berettas, and the just don't feel right in my hands. But they are a quality gun. IMO the best value in O/U's is probably Mirokus. They built guns for Charles Dailys, Brownings, and they also sold guns with just the Miroku name. They can often be found for under $1000 and they are built with the same quality, or better, then guns that are twice as expensive. I would say they are easily equal to the Beretta 686 line of guns, just not as pretty.... My all time favorite O/U though is Conneticut Shotgun Manufacturing's new A-10. My Father in Law bought one in 20 gauge with a English stock and double triggers. Im not a fan of the stock or double triggers on an O/U, but besides that... WOW!!!! What an absolutely gorgeous and wonderfully swinging gun.
well played sir... I like your style. :tup:
someday an AYA #2 RB 20 gauge with 30" bbls will find its way into my gun safe. sure they are spendy but you only go around once. they are sure as heck a lot more obtainable than a purdey of similar build.