Post by: JODakota on January 06, 2012, 10:28:36 AM
Post by: Holg3107 on January 06, 2012, 10:33:03 AM
Post by: JODakota on January 06, 2012, 11:22:25 AM
Post by: JODakota on January 06, 2012, 11:40:06 AM
Post by: teal101 on January 06, 2012, 04:38:54 PM
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 06, 2012, 04:45:05 PM
Teal101 try using a 12lb mono in a ultra green or clear color and depending on the size of the river and the color of the water you may want to lengthen up your leaders to 3ft or more! I like using 4 1/2ft leaders when fishing the clearwater or snake but when the river is super clear I will lengthen them up to around 5 1/2ft.
B_C
Post by: Huntbear on January 06, 2012, 05:05:07 PM
Murky/dark water = shorter normal diameter leaders 10-15 lbs. test for drift rods
Post by: RadSav on January 06, 2012, 05:09:23 PM
Bigger slow water for Kings and Tyees we will lengthen leaders even more and go lighter #test. Doesn't make that much of a difference in presentation, but definately helps in flossing those bigger fish that aren't on the strike.
Casting Clattertads in this water can sometimes wake them up too. Late summer fish can't resist 'em.
Post by: BigGoonTuna on January 06, 2012, 06:39:20 PM
i never use more than 2 feet of leader, and usually less. if you want a freer drift, use less lead. longer leaders hang up more, and with bait it's harder to make good casts with.
Post by: RadSav on January 06, 2012, 07:06:49 PM
to all the guys who are so concerned with a "natural" drift, what part of a glob of cured eggs, or jig, or spinner is natural? :chuckle:
i never use more than 2 feet of leader, and usually less. if you want a freer drift, use less lead. longer leaders hang up more, and with bait it's harder to make good casts with.
Using less lead is a good idea. Most definately use too much.
Fish the Vedder River some day when the water is clear. I say the Vedder because you might see 500 big slabs a day in there. Watch how each fish reacts to a presentation. Bait or jigs that do not naturally tumble toward them get a definate negative reaction. I had a BIG Tyee in a hole that I was trying to entice with my favorite peach ball. That bugger would swim eight to ten feet left or right to avoid it. My partner shows up using the same peach ball, but with a longer, lighter leader and less weight. That dang fish stuck to his spot and just sucked it up as it went by. What's natural about a ball of yarn? Alot when it's presented correctly.
Post by: huntnnw on January 06, 2012, 07:28:20 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 07, 2012, 11:40:55 PM
I've never really gone over 3ft leaders, but plan on mixing it up fairly soon. Always wondered how a longer leader would work on skinnier water, typically just downsize the leader. Usually only throw 8lb while drifting. And slinkies all the way. Like the drift much more, just not as easy to get as precise a weight as it would be with pencil lead. Have to mix and match all the different gauges and have a lot on hand.
Post by: bwhntr350 on January 08, 2012, 06:45:51 AM
Post by: JODakota on January 08, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 08, 2012, 12:57:28 PM
Dark and or deep water I like a shorter leader 1.5-2 feet.
How big of bait you are fishing and how fast the current is should determine how much lead you use.
This is how I fish steelhead.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on January 08, 2012, 03:18:09 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 08, 2012, 09:34:47 PM
Yea I haven't either and that's why I asked. I was reading about all these guys using such long leader lengths but I was use any where from a foot and half to two feet. I have to say eggs all the way for me. I haven't tried out yarn balls but I should. I hear it help set the hook because the yarn gets stuck in their teeth. Has that been the truth for you?
Nahh, at least not that I could tell. All corner sets, never seen yarn teeth. Just like the drift and action. Like I said, I'm just horrible with eggs - don't have a good cure, and even the good ones I bum eggs from I just don't have confidence in. I like to be able to mix up several 3-4 color combos with the yarn balls and add scent. Just like any other type of fishing for me, all confidence. JO - maybe we should meet up sometime. Have yet to hit the T since I moved to WW. Usually fish the GR, going to make a trip here again soon.
Post by: huntnnw on January 08, 2012, 10:47:23 PM
Post by: JODakota on January 09, 2012, 11:06:44 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 09, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 09, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
How ever if you use too short of leader in low clear water the fish will be spooked away from your offering because it will be presented in an unnatural drift.
B_C
Post by: huntnnw on January 09, 2012, 10:17:10 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 09, 2012, 10:21:32 PM
Sorry to disagree with you about the leaders Fords07 but I use thousands of leaders a year and they are all between 4.5 to 5.5ft long I have seen flossing leaders and they tend to be on the 7 to 10 foot side! The leaders are that are 4.5 to 5.5 tend to create a more natural drift with the baits be it roe yarn or something else. Shorter leaders have their place ie murky water or small shallow streams. With murky water the fish tend to be in closer to the shore and if you have to long of a leader your bait will never make it down to where the fish are holding or traveling. The same also holds true for small shallow creeks and streams if your leaders are to long your presentation will never make it down to where the fish are, instead it will just pass over the top of the fish.
How ever if you use too short of leader in low clear water the fish will be spooked away from your offering because it will be presented in an unnatural drift.
B_C
That is spot on with what my thoughts are. I have seen guys run a lot of shot leaders and have crappy luck. Most of mine are around 4 ft :tup:
Post by: huntnnw on January 09, 2012, 10:24:44 PM
People use 4' leaders or longer for one reason, to floss fish. :bdid:
nope! I use 36-42" leaders almost all the time and I do not floss fish EVER!
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 10, 2012, 09:46:02 AM
People use 4' leaders or longer for one reason, to floss fish. :bdid:
nope! I use 36-42" leaders almost all the time and I do not floss fish EVER!
4'=48" :dunno:
Post by: TommyH on January 10, 2012, 08:17:02 PM
People use 4' leaders or longer for one reason, to floss fish. :bdid:
nope! I use 36-42" leaders almost all the time and I do not floss fish EVER!
4'=48" :dunno:
:chuckle: diffrent rivers/diffrent flow/diffrent conditions/diffrent fish/...............diffrent liter lengths!! 4 foot is not uncommon. or imho not flossing, I dont live on that side of the Mtns.! :chuckle:
Post by: 6x6in6 on January 10, 2012, 08:24:04 PM
If the water gets less than 24" visibility then I will shorten it up a bit but not really less than 20.
If I feel like I have to go less than that because of visibility, I go home and try again another day.
Post by: huntnnw on January 10, 2012, 10:39:09 PM
People use 4' leaders or longer for one reason, to floss fish. :bdid:
nope! I use 36-42" leaders almost all the time and I do not floss fish EVER!
4'=48" :dunno:
really..thanks I didnt know :rolleyes:
Post by: BigGoonTuna on January 11, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
not a chance I would ever use 24" leader in a clear river bouncing for metalheads...8lb maxima and sometimes 6lbyou're giving those fish more credit than they deserve. about the most deadly summer run setup out there is a sand shrimp tail with a split shot about 8" above the hook.
Post by: huntnnw on January 11, 2012, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: JODakota on January 12, 2012, 10:19:34 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 12, 2012, 10:24:27 PM
not a chance I would ever use 24" in a clear river bouncing for metalheads...8lb maxima and sometimes 6lbyou're giving those fish more credit than they deserve. about the most deadly summer run setup out there is a sand shrimp tail with a split shot about 8" above the hook.
No credit needed for a summer fish crushing the dryside. Sand shrimp is shiiit here. Worms dude. :)
Post by: TheHunt on January 13, 2012, 09:01:10 AM
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 13, 2012, 09:24:59 AM
How does that fluorocarbon work after its had a fish on it? And which kind are you using? I have never had any luck with that stuff as far as it holding up to being abrasion resistant to anything on the bottom.
B_C
Post by: huntnnw on January 13, 2012, 09:48:26 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 13, 2012, 01:31:41 PM
But recently, especially the last couple of days, I've noticed that my fluoro line is freezing more than usual. Does anyone else have this problem? I've fished colder days and don't remember my mono freezing up like it was.
For what it's worth I use P-Line's products. Not a huge fan of the copolymers but I'm sure they have their place.
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 13, 2012, 01:45:46 PM
How often are you changing your lines on your reels with the fluoro's?
B_C
Post by: KopperBuck on January 13, 2012, 02:41:20 PM
I can tell you that I did have issues with a couple of different lines, so it may very well be that you're getting bad stuff. I'm not necessarily sold on it for steelhead yet, just thought I'd try it out this year. But if it keeps freezing up it has this week I'm not going to use it anymore. I've always wondered how it would hold up in colder water since I've heard people complaining it's strength.
It has it's pros and cons for sure. It's more expensive for one. But for my bass fishing I swear by it. Most of what I'm throwing is 20lb and 12-15lb, and 8lb on drop rigs. The 20lb stuff sees a lot of work since I'm pitching to, in, and around lots of cover.
Kind of why I mentioned the knot issue. I try to tie a palomar any chance I get. Obviously with leaders it makes it a little more difficult, but it is possible. I'm also going to try tying from mono to fluoro for split shot rigs, see where that gets me.
What brands have you tried?
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 13, 2012, 06:04:38 PM
B_C
Post by: huntnnw on January 13, 2012, 10:51:01 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 13, 2012, 11:03:35 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 13, 2012, 11:48:54 PM
I am with you shane. I tried the fluro and missed to many fish with it. To much stretch for me :bash: I run maxima 90% of the time. Good stuff :tup:
What do you run the other 10%? Always up for new stuff.
P-line 12 lb fluoro cant hold a candle to 8 lb maxima...after a dozen cast with 12 lb fluoro I d be hard pressed if it was as strong as 6lb maxima..I was snapping leaders last year like u couldnt imagine..tossed it all and back to maxima
Where they breaking at? What kind of knot you running?
Man I wish there was more guys talking fish on here, love this convo.
Not going to lie, LOVE maxima, but I have a hard time shaking the fluoro bug b/c of my warm water background.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 13, 2012, 11:53:22 PM
I am with you shane. I tried the fluro and missed to many fish with it. To much stretch for me :bash: I run maxima 90% of the time. Good stuff :tup:
What do you run the other 10%? Always up for new stuff.
I play with a lot of stuff as well. stren/berkley/pline etc
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 14, 2012, 06:51:10 AM
B_C
Post by: RadSav on January 14, 2012, 10:30:40 AM
In the early eighties Berkley sent us a sample spool of a mono line called Hombre' to test on the Charter boat. My goodness was that good stuff. Strongest knots and most abrasion resistant stuff I have ever used to this day. Don't think it ever made it to market which was a shame.
Post by: TommyH on January 15, 2012, 08:39:13 AM
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2012, 09:20:20 AM
Few people use flouro as a main line because it usually has too much memory.
Post by: Huntbear on January 15, 2012, 09:23:50 AM
I put some flouro on my pole and used it one trip for steelhead, my last eyelet has grooves in it all from the 6 oclock to the 9 oclock, i was bank fishing and it just destroyed the tip :bash: :bash: any one else had that problem? it was an ugly stick lite 8foot6, now i will not even use it cause i no that i will be putting nicks in my line and the big one will get away! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
You sure you did not get braid on there? I am agreeing with above post. Flourocarbon line does not cut into guides like that.
Post by: TommyH on January 15, 2012, 09:37:50 AM
I put some flouro on my pole and used it one trip for steelhead, my last eyelet has grooves in it all from the 6 oclock to the 9 oclock, i was bank fishing and it just destroyed the tip :bash: :bash: any one else had that problem? it was an ugly stick lite 8foot6, now i will not even use it cause i no that i will be putting nicks in my line and the big one will get away! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
You sure you did not get braid on there? I am agreeing with above post. Flourocarbon line does not cut into guides like that.
No i am sure, i have never put a braid on that pole or any pole, I used mono and flouro, i noticed the grooves after the flouro was on it for one weekend, maybe it was just a bad tip? :dunno:
Post by: Huntbear on January 15, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
That is weird, had to be a bad guide. I used to bass fish and used a lot of flourocarbon line, NEVER did it ruin a guide... :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: RadSav on January 15, 2012, 10:14:52 AM
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 15, 2012, 01:55:17 PM
B_C
Post by: TheHunt on January 15, 2012, 04:17:15 PM
With Fluorocarbon you have to spit on your knots before you tighten the knot and also the slower you should pull the knot tight or it will cut/burn into the line and make a weak knot. For jig and bobber it is the ticket in my opinion with clear water as I use 30lb main line braid high vis. I also use a med lite rod with not too much backbone so it is really almost a noodle rod to help those big jolts a steelhead will do to the line. Fluorocorbon does not stretch. So if you have braid for main line to your float than fluoro on your float leader you best have a lots of play with your rod. As said before it is brittle line. But that line is invisable in the water.
But without a dought it is great in gin clear water.
Here is the picture of Seaguar Fluorocarbon. You have to be very careful with the line but for gin clear water it is the ticket in my book.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi157.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft73%2FTheHuntPic%2Fseaguar.jpg&hash=0a05bfd57c58a2baf87d32319d78d45ba275e017)
Here is the fish that came from the Grande Ronde in January when I took my son back to WSU. I was using fluorocarbon to a wad of eggs.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi157.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft73%2FTheHuntPic%2FSDC12048.jpg&hash=d4fe1a2038bd7fa3641a4b9183976cbf899bf63b)
Post by: KopperBuck on January 15, 2012, 07:26:38 PM
With Fluorocarbon you have to spit on your knots before you tighten the knot and also the slower you should pull the knot tight or it will cut/burn into the line and make a weak knot. For jig and bobber it is the ticket in my opinion with clear water as I use 30lb main line braid high vis. I also use a med lite rod with not too much backbone so it is really almost a noodle rod to help those big jolts a steelhead will do to the line. Fluorocorbon does not stretch. So if you have braid for main line to your float than fluoro on your float leader you best have a lots of play with your rod. As said before it is brittle line. But that line is invisable in the water.
But without a dought it is great in gin clear water.
Here is the picture of Seaguar Fluorocarbon. You have to be very careful with the line but for gin clear water it is the ticket in my book.
Very true, on all accounts. Especially the knot care. I wet every knot before it's drawn down, but especially so with FL. If I get a line wrap that's not proper, it's cut and retie. Great pic by the way, why I go with it as much as I can, and the sink rate is exceptional.
Post by: huntnnw on January 15, 2012, 09:47:53 PM
Post by: TheHunt on January 16, 2012, 07:53:19 AM
my knots were not breaking...any nick on the line it would break there..just overall when u use a certain line for so many years you get use to its breaking point..the P-line was nothing...just yanking real hard on a snag I could snap any leader...not with maxima could I do that unless it was a leader with some wear or an a rockYep, you are right on target. With the Fluoro gain stealth/invisablility but at the same time you loose that toughness. That is why I like using it for float fishing. Using it for drift fishing and it is going to be a gamble.
Post by: teal101 on January 16, 2012, 09:30:52 AM
I put some flouro on my pole and used it one trip for steelhead, my last eyelet has grooves in it all from the 6 oclock to the 9 oclock, i was bank fishing and it just destroyed the tip :bash: :bash: any one else had that problem? it was an ugly stick lite 8foot6, now i will not even use it cause i no that i will be putting nicks in my line and the big one will get away! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Any line can groove guides, even mono. It's not the line itself that grooves the guides, it's the sediments in the water on the line that does it. Braid is notorious for this because it is porous and absorbs water and the sediments in the water. So long as your line gets wet, it can groove your guides. If it is just the tip and the tip is not wrapped and epoxied you should be able to take a lighter to the tip. This will melt the glue in the tip and you can pop it off. Get a guide replacement kit which will have the glue and guide tops and re-apply. Tip tops are pretty easy. That or take it to your local rod builder :IBCOOL:
Post by: teal101 on January 16, 2012, 09:34:50 AM
my knots were not breaking...any nick on the line it would break there..just overall when u use a certain line for so many years you get use to its breaking point..the P-line was nothing...just yanking real hard on a snag I could snap any leader...not with maxima could I do that unless it was a leader with some wear or an a rock
Fluoro has NO STRETCH. There is no shock absorption there at all. It's akin to braid in this quality. Applying a quick yank can and generally will cause fluoro to snap if there is no give. You need to re-learn how to set the hook and release snags with fluoro and braid alike. I generally use a copolymer instead of straight fluoro on my rigs. I may switch to copoly on my leaders this year as I went from a MH rod to a H rod with a stiffer backbone and I fear I might snap my 15lb fluoro leader since I use a braid mainline. With copoly it is near invisible in the water, more abrasion resistant than fluoro, and so far has had less memory than mono for me. I use either Yo-Zuri copoly or P-line fluoroclear.
Post by: huntnnw on January 16, 2012, 09:40:14 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 16, 2012, 09:57:54 PM
People use 4' leaders or longer for one reason, to floss fish. :bdid:
Respectfully I disagree as well. I use a 4-6' leaders as well and not for flossing but to get a more natual drift. If you study hydro or "fluid Dynamics" you will understand where river fish sit in order to conserve energy. Often times this is directly behind structure that a short leader will not allow the bait to get to. With a longer leader, the line is able to naturally bend with the flow of the current, around the rocks and closer to the fish. With a short leader, the bait will not have the length required to move in behind your typical river size rocks as well as a longer leader will. Of course there is a whole lot more to it, river depth, weight used, river speed etc, but you get the idea. :twocents:
Post by: TheHunt on January 17, 2012, 08:36:19 AM
Post by: Stickerbush on January 17, 2012, 08:43:08 AM
btw I dont really know what "flossing" is. Is it basically snagging? Last fish I saw caught was by a guy who had probably a 5ft leader driftin it into a small hole on a SMALL river. Hard to know its unethical to do somethin without there bieng a fisher ed class like hunters ed. haha :dunno:
Post by: TheHunt on January 17, 2012, 08:46:11 AM
Post by: teal101 on January 17, 2012, 10:37:46 AM
THe verdict is that if you are fishing in gin clear water and the fish are line shy (the fish see your leader and stay away) you best put on some fluoro. If the fish are not line shy use mono or braid.
Or get a co-poly line. It's basically mono with a fluoro coating to make it more invisible in the water. I find the P-Line floroclear has less memory than mono and aslightly more stretch than pure fluoro. Perfect for my every day fishing needs.
Post by: TheHunt on January 17, 2012, 11:03:54 AM
Post by: Huntbear on January 17, 2012, 11:25:00 AM
Post by: JODakota on January 17, 2012, 11:46:34 AM
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2012, 12:00:44 PM
Post by: TheHunt on January 17, 2012, 12:01:44 PM
I have seen fish scoot away from line.
Heck I even seen them run from me. While I was wearing a nice white T-Shirt and a white hat on a bright day. So use what you need. Dirty water who cares. If it is clear you might want to have something in your box to throw on.
Post by: RadSav on January 17, 2012, 12:06:59 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 17, 2012, 12:51:08 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on January 17, 2012, 01:01:04 PM
:twocents:
Post by: tmike on January 17, 2012, 01:06:14 PM
Post by: JODakota on January 17, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
My theory is use what will catch fish. If they run from your line you best have a solution to make the line invisible. If copoly will work then go for it.
I have seen fish scoot away from line.
Heck I even seen them run from me. While I was wearing a nice white T-Shirt and a white hat on a bright day. So use what you need. Dirty water who cares. If it is clear you might want to have something in your box to throw on.
I have as well, But were talking specifically steelhead, who don't seem to be line shy, trout can be a different story.
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 17, 2012, 01:12:43 PM
Post by: 87Ford on January 17, 2012, 01:16:31 PM
Steelhead aren't line shy. I use 10# maxima in the winter even for Nates. They are also good biters. It's more about reading the water and presentation. Don't over think it.
I couldn't agree more. I also use 10# Maxima mainline with 8# leaders at 24-30 inches. Bump to 10# leaders if there are nates around and rock on... Imo, varying the size of your bait in relation to water clarity is more important than leader length.
Post by: tmike on January 17, 2012, 01:18:05 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on January 17, 2012, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: tmike on January 17, 2012, 02:01:24 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 17, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
Post by: Bone_Collector on January 18, 2012, 07:05:15 AM
B_C
Post by: teal101 on January 18, 2012, 09:00:05 AM
Imo flourocarbon is pointless for salmon/ steelhead. If the water is drity they're not going to see your mono, why use flourocarbon? If the water is gin clear your heavy flouro, although "invisible" is not going to give you a natural presentation, your better off with 6lb or 8lb.
:twocents:
Why are you using heavier fluoro? You can use 6 or 8lb fluoro too.
:twocents:
Post by: TheHunt on January 20, 2012, 03:33:29 PM
Dirty water the fish do not know the difference. So use mono or braid as leader. Heck, I have even used green braid directly to the jig and used that twitching method. 20 lb braid directly to the jig I didn't loose too many of my jigs. :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Button Nubbs on January 20, 2012, 04:20:28 PM
Post by: teal101 on January 23, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
I thought the benefit of flouro was the invisibility? :dunno: why would you wanna use a brittle 6-8lb line, when it won't make a difference.
Because 6lb mono isnt invisible like 6lb fluoro is. And Fluoro isnt "brittle", it has zero stretch. It has the same breaking strain as comparable mono ignoring line differences by brand. The mono stretches to absorb shock, while fluoro doesnt. If it's being used as a leader with a mono mainline hook sets wont be a big deal. If you use it with a braid mainline you have a zero stretch setup and need to use a lighter hook set to get the same hooking power as mono.
Post by: TheHunt on January 23, 2012, 05:42:27 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 23, 2012, 06:05:22 PM
I thought the benefit of flouro was the invisibility? :dunno: why would you wanna use a brittle 6-8lb line, when it won't make a difference.
Because 6lb mono isnt invisible like 6lb fluoro is. And Fluoro isnt "brittle", it has zero stretch. It has the same breaking strain as comparable mono ignoring line differences by brand. The mono stretches to absorb shock, while fluoro doesnt. If it's being used as a leader with a mono mainline hook sets wont be a big deal. If you use it with a braid mainline you have a zero stretch setup and need to use a lighter hook set to get the same hooking power as mono.
Well explained. Also, don't forget it sinks much faster than any of the other lines.