Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Shed Hunting => Topic started by: Maverick on January 09, 2012, 06:01:17 PM

Title: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2012, 06:01:17 PM: Is it the weather? How cold or warm it is? Why are they dropping I'm some units but not in others? I'm so confused!
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2012, 06:06:29 PM: Consensus in the science world is light.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2012, 06:07:29 PM: that being said...........health has something to do with it.

Some say larger animals shed first

Some say animals shed their antlers within the day of every given year
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: oldleclercrd on January 09, 2012, 06:11:28 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2012, 06:07:29 PM
that being said...........health has something to do with it.

Some say larger animals shed first

Some say animals shed their antlers within the day of every given year

That would be interesting to know if that were true...
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: elkboy on January 09, 2012, 06:22:48 PM: A quick search took me to a study on red deer in Europe (Moyes et al., 2011, Global Change Biology). Among other things, they found that larger bulls did shed earlier, that bulls that shed earlier grew larger antlers in the following growing season, and that warm temperatures during the previous summer and the current winter moved the dates forward. So, have a warmer winter (like the one we're having now), and deer might shed a bit earlier. I'll have to poke around- it's an interesting question.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Elkslayer on January 09, 2012, 06:55:57 PM: Well in my neck of the woods they are about 2-3 weeks later than they were last year. I started finding them at food plots on the 9th of Dec last year. The earliest that I saw any shed this year was the 20th of Dec and at least half if not more are still packing.
They also dont shed the same time every year. I have one buck that shed on the 7th of Jan in 2009, Dec 14th in 2010 and this year he shed on Dec 20th.
I have also heard that it has alot to do with the level of testosterone in them.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: stickbuck on January 09, 2012, 07:13:47 PM: Bucks will typically drop their antlers about the same time of the year, but the weather and the rut can play a part in all of the shedding process. If the weather for instance in Eastern Washington is severely cold and tough on the bucks especially during the rut, it can put alot of stress on a buck. This added stress can play a large part in why some of the larger, more dominant bucks may shed earlier in a year versus year's past. Sometimes, the weather may not be too terribly bad, but a buck's body might get really wound down during the rut and that stress alone can expedite the shedding process. I hope that made sense.

http://www.growingdeer.tv/view/2011/12/30/why-bucks-shed-antlers-early/
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2012, 07:19:46 PM: So if they drop late it could mean they had a crappy rut? What to feed them that boosts there testosterone? :chuckle:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: HornHoarder on January 09, 2012, 07:38:07 PM: Another thing to mention is bucks that are injured often shed early. The early sheds I found were from a buck that had his eye gouged out during the rut. Last year another buck that was wounded during muzzleloader season was the first to shed.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: steen on January 09, 2012, 08:20:57 PM: The new year's antlers pushing the old ones out.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: huntnnw on January 09, 2012, 09:34:38 PM: I think some of it is hereditary... Mica area for example has a lot of bucks losing antlers in late Novemeber on a consistent basis for 20 + years I have witnessed...then you go to other areas such as Ferry co where bucks dropping in late Nov and early Dec is more of a rarity and seem to generally drop by late January.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: simondude on January 09, 2012, 09:40:29 PM: Nothing does, they don't have horns.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: sled on January 09, 2012, 09:43:34 PM: I have seen some big bulls in manastash, and teanaway with horns in mid to late april.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: JJB11B on January 09, 2012, 09:44:58 PM: Thats the way God made them :chuckle: :bash: Moms answer to everything
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: jnevs23 on January 09, 2012, 11:17:19 PM: Whats the latest you guys have seen? Ive seen deer in April on 2 different occasions still sporting racks. One was by Spokane falls cc, he had a full rack. Then a couple years ago on beacon hill I saw one with a halfer still hanging on. It was strange.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2012, 11:42:21 PM: So really no one has a clue! :yike:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: huntnnw on January 09, 2012, 11:44:32 PM: Quote from: jnevs23 on January 09, 2012, 11:17:19 PM
Whats the latest you guys have seen? Ive seen deer in April on 2 different occasions still sporting racks. One was by Spokane falls cc, he had a full rack. Then a couple years ago on beacon hill I saw one with a halfer still hanging on. It was strange.

was it a muley? not uncommon for them. I saw a 4 pt near Clayton,WA in Early april one year.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: buck man on January 10, 2012, 12:29:05 AM: Quote from: Elkslayer on January 09, 2012, 06:55:57 PM
Well in my neck of the woods they are about 2-3 weeks later than they were last year. I started finding them at food plots on the 9th of Dec last year. The earliest that I saw any shed this year was the 20th of Dec and at least half if not more are still packing.
They also dont shed the same time every year. I have one buck that shed on the 7th of Jan in 2009, Dec 14th in 2010 and this year he shed on Dec 20th.
I have also heard that it has alot to do with the level of testosterone in them.
1
:yeah:
They are later this year than last
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: NWBREW on January 10, 2012, 01:52:10 AM: I saw a whitetail down at the river off maraski that still had antlers in april. I wanted to follow him till they fell off. :chuckle:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: billythekidrock on January 10, 2012, 05:40:16 AM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 09, 2012, 06:06:29 PM
Consensus in the science world is light.

:yeah:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 10, 2012, 05:44:58 AM: Quote
So really no one has a clue

I told you the answer.

The amount of light is what influences hormones and chemicals which triggers when the antlers will fall off(its also responsible for the rut). If you think about it, light is probably influenced by the weather. I through health in there because it can make an animal shed earlier or later. I have seen both deer and elk still packing in May. Course I have also seen a bull in full velvet in February that never shed his velvet, so stranger things happen.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: billythekidrock on January 10, 2012, 05:59:33 AM: Quote from: boneaddict on January 10, 2012, 05:44:58 AM
Quote
So really no one has a clue

I told you the answer.

The amount of light is what influences hormones and chemicals which triggers when the antlers will fall off(its also responsible for the rut). If you think about it, light is probably influenced by the weather. I through health in there because it can make an animal shed earlier or later. I have seen both deer and elk still packing in May. Course I have also seen a bull in full velvet in February that never shed his velvet, so stranger things happen.

:tup:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: huntnnw on January 10, 2012, 06:10:07 AM: if it was light than all deer would shed in the same time period year after year... I know one factor is if the buck to doe ratio is way off..lotta unbred does in a given area the rut will last longer and the testosterone keeps flowing once the testosterone stops producing in a buck a thin membrane begins to form over pedicle and the antler falls off
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: trophyhunt on January 10, 2012, 07:02:24 AM: Quote from: steen on January 09, 2012, 08:20:57 PM
The new year's antlers pushing the old ones out.
:yeah:jThat's what I've always thought.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 10, 2012, 07:08:02 AM: Many would argue that the rut happens at the same time everyyear as well, though anecdotally I might disagree. It is also driven by light thus might also be affected by weather as mentioned about the antlers. Kinda makes biological sense. Imagine how out of wack things would get from year to year if deer reacted due to soley the weather. Nature is designed so that a majority of babes are born roughly at the same time.

Again, anecdotally, I can make observations either way. It seems like the peek breeding season is roughly the same time every year though, whether we perceive it that way or not. Essentially does have two cycles to get hit otherwise you see things like spotted calves at the feeding station(yes thats a cow not a doe). In other words, things do happen outside the norm, but generally we go by the norm.

Every animal is going to have slight variations. Kind of like comparing woman and how they handle hormones, men how they react. Compare me to the student I have right now. I'm 6 5 275pounds, my student is 5 foot, 85 pounds. We have different diets, etc. Try to lump us into one category.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 10, 2012, 07:14:34 AM: Search youtube for lowlandmulies and theres a video of steve alderman from muledeercountry.com explaining it very well.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: groundhog on January 10, 2012, 07:23:43 AM: Light definitly has an huge effect. Scientist have taken bucks and by changing the amount of light they were able to alter when the buck dropped.
I agree with Huntnnw, I think Testosterone plays a bigger roll in the difference from one year to the next. The more an animal participates in the rut the earlier he drops. Usually the older mature animals will shed first but there is always the exception of a big buck or bull that holds on to them for what seems like forever. He wasn't as active during the rut. It is also not that unusual to see a young animal shed early. This animal was active.
Bucks and Bulls do not always shed on the same day each year. I have seen animals drop early one year and then 17 days later the next year. You really never know from one year to the next. Maybe the reason the animals seem to shed early in some areas and not in others has to do with doe to buck ratios.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: C-Money on January 10, 2012, 08:03:51 AM: I have saw a spike bull still packing antler in mid April, during turkey season. I looked at a BUNCH of elk last weekend and only saw 4 small bulls. I hope the big boys were some where els, or already dropped.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Elkslayer on January 10, 2012, 09:13:01 AM: Quote from: C-Money on January 10, 2012, 08:03:51 AM
I have saw a spike bull still packing antler in mid April, during turkey season. I looked at a BUNCH of elk last weekend and only saw 4 small bulls. I hope the big boys were some where els, or already dropped.

The big boys, "Elk" aren't even close to dropping yet.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 10, 2012, 01:36:57 PM: moose...whitetail.....muledeer.......elk

I assume blacktail are somewhere near muledeer.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Hilltop123 on January 10, 2012, 02:22:16 PM: This answer is as good as others..............GRAVITY :chuckle:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 10, 2012, 03:29:38 PM: Love it.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Rainier10 on January 10, 2012, 03:36:41 PM: Quote from: Hilltop123 on January 10, 2012, 02:22:16 PM
This answer is as good as others..............GRAVITY :chuckle:
Nailed it, I think that is the funniest answer. Bones multiple descriptions are probably closer but yours is funnier.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 10, 2012, 04:11:48 PM: Bone Addict nailed it. Hormonal changes brought on by the length of the day. Antler shedding is linked to decreasing testosterone levels. As testosterone levels decrease, special cells called osteoclasts form at the juncture of the skull and antler. Osteoclasts reabsorb calcium from the antler, weakening the joint between the skull and antler until the antler drops. As with anything hormonal, individual animals may release the hormone earlier or later than others. That's why you see some early on in the year that have lost their antlers and some very late in the winter that still have them.

Some species hang on to them longer than others also. Part of it could be when the breeding season is, or if a "second rut" kicks in. Or even how far north the animal lives. Biologically there are reasons that packing a round a large set of antlers could be bad. Carrying that extra weight on a moose or an elk would mean that much extra energy would be expended during the winter when calories are harder to come by. Not to mention the males have already spent most of their fat reserves fighting for mates. The farther north you go and snow increases it becomes even more critical. The only use the antlers are after the rut is possibly as a weapon to fight off predation. But there could be a trade off there as far as the animal getting back into good shape.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Hilltop123 on January 10, 2012, 04:15:42 PM: Quote from: Sitka_Blacktail on January 10, 2012, 04:11:48 PM
Bone Addict nailed it. Hormonal changes brought on by the length of the day. Antler shedding is linked to decreasing testosterone levels. As testosterone levels decrease, special cells called osteoclasts form at the juncture of the skull and antler. Osteoclasts reabsorb calcium from the antler, weakening the joint between the skull and antler until the antler drops. As with anything hormonal, individual animals may release the hormone earlier or later than others. That's why you see some early on in the year that have lost their antlers and some very late in the winter that still have them.

Some species hang on to them longer than others also. Part of it could be when the breeding season is, or if a "second rut" kicks in. Or even how far north the animal lives. Biologically there are reasons that packing a round a large set of antlers could be bad. Carrying that extra weight on a moose or an elk would mean that much extra energy would be expended during the winter when calories are harder to come by. Not to mention the males have already spent most of their fat reserves fighting for mates. The farther north you go and snow increases it becomes even more critical. The only use the antlers are after the rut is possibly as a weapon to fight off predation. But there could be a trade off there as far as the animal getting back into good shape.
Your answer is correct, for why they become dissconnected from the skull.........But my answer covers, why they drop.......... :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: huntandjeep on January 10, 2012, 06:44:13 PM: I always thought that deer and elk dropped there antlers because of jackwagons chasing them with there quadrunners. :chuckle:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Elk77 on January 11, 2012, 07:42:55 AM: ..lotta unbred does in a given area the rut will last longer and the testosterone keeps flowing once the testosterone stops producing in a buck a thin membrane begins to form over pedicle and the antler falls off :tup:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: lokidog on January 11, 2012, 09:20:21 AM: Quote from: trophyhunt on January 10, 2012, 07:02:24 AM
Quote from: steen on January 09, 2012, 08:20:57 PM
The new year's antlers pushing the old ones out.
:yeah:jThat's what I've always thought.

Ummmmm...... No! :chuckle: It is hormonal as mentioned. Many stimuli have an impact on hormone production including light, weather, diet, genetics, and behaviour/activity.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: jdurham on January 12, 2012, 05:40:55 AM: My game camers are out year round. I too have seen them packing as late as april. I feel much has to do with health and age. The big set of sheds I found this year were dropped Jan. 6th. Last year the same buck dropped them Dec. 24th. Both years he lost both antlers within 2 feet of each other. Can't wait to see what he is next year.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 12, 2012, 07:11:00 AM: We need a live pic of that beast.
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: Maverick on January 12, 2012, 10:57:13 AM: :yeah:
Title: Re: what makes a buck drop his horns?
Post by: boneaddict on January 12, 2012, 10:58:33 AM: He posted them in the original thread. DAMN fine deer. DAMN FINE!