Post by: deerhunter_98520 on January 14, 2012, 08:41:22 PM
220'' deer is $21,800...this is rediculous! :yike:...they turn them loose around june or july...i guess i will never understand these
they say its a "fair chase" enviroment :chuckle:
http://www.silvertine.ca/dates--rates-2012.html
Post by: Hunterman on January 14, 2012, 08:54:04 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on January 14, 2012, 08:58:05 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 09:06:03 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 14, 2012, 09:28:36 PM
Post by: lokidog on January 14, 2012, 09:29:25 PM
That sounds just about the right cost for a day hunt in Washington next year :tup:
Hunterman(Tony)
Yeah and that's only for the state fees on "public" ground...... :chuckle:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 09:34:08 PM
I beg to differ. There are NO high fence hunts that are are by any means, "very much fair chase hunts".
You can beg to differ all you like. If you want to say a 20,000 acre preserve is not a very much fair chase hunt you have no idea :tup:
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2012, 09:37:00 PM
Post by: lokidog on January 14, 2012, 09:41:25 PM
IMHO, 640 or 320 acres, not much of a hunt, as mentioned by Carp, 20,000 acres is a big difference. Not sure I would do one either way though, personally.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 14, 2012, 09:47:18 PM
I don't care so much if it's non-native big game species that are being "hunted" inside a fence, but I'm 100% against any kind of high fence hunting for native species of deer and elk in this country. Which I guess would mainly be Rocky Mountain elk and whitetail deer. Wildlife is supposed to belong to the public, not fenced in and used for the profit of landowners.:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: That about sums it up perfect!
Post by: MtnMuley on January 14, 2012, 09:56:47 PM
Good luck convincing anybody with any common sense on that statement. There's no such thing as high fences in fair chase hunting. With your wealth of information, I'd have figured you knew that. :tup:I beg to differ. There are NO high fence hunts that are are by any means, "very much fair chase hunts".
You can beg to differ all you like. If you want to say a 20,000 acre preserve is not a very much fair chase hunt you have no idea :tup:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 14, 2012, 10:07:09 PM
I don't care so much if it's non-native big game species that are being "hunted" inside a fence, but I'm 100% against any kind of high fence hunting for native species of deer and elk in this country. Which I guess would mainly be Rocky Mountain elk and whitetail deer. Wildlife is supposed to belong to the public, not fenced in and used for the profit of landowners.So, are you suggesting that WDFW or some agency should remove all the native wildlife on a highfence operation? (Not trying to be an azz here, just curious) If it is private property I see no reason why the owners shouldn't be allowed to fence it, then manage what resources they have. Is the issue that the animals can no longer leave to be hunted on adjacent public property? I don't see why the owners shouldn't benefit if they are assuming the responsibility of the animals (food, range, security). Since it is private property, the land and animals on it are not able to be hunted without owner approval, so I don't see the issue if it is a herd of 5 animals or 5,000 in the fence used for a commercial hunting operation. Since it's private, I just assume it is a housing development or a military base or something.
But, it is kind of difficult to define how public property (animals) in this case are landlocked by private ownership. Should there be a reimbursement to the WDFW for the original animals that are taken out of circulation by the fence? My opinion is that animals should be viewed as a resource similar to trees or rocks or oil...whoever owns the land owns the resource on it--if an animal moves to a different area then it changes ownership.
Post by: MtnMuley on January 14, 2012, 10:09:56 PM
Post by: deerslyr on January 14, 2012, 10:14:41 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 10:15:25 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 14, 2012, 10:16:06 PM
I agree with carp. It varies by operation. Animals have home ranges that in many cases are smaller than the operation. So the animal isn't really confined at all. Some places, whitetails will spend their entire life within an area about 1/2 square mile. An animal like that will likely not be affected by the fence if the land is large enough. One place an old neighbor would go to was only like 120 acres, but had about 100 deer on it (most bucks were extremely large). They would have all kinds of guys go there with their bows talking about how many deer they've killed elsewhere, but those guys rarely even saw any of the deer. What are thoughts regarding hunting on an island? The animals are basically fenced there too.Good luck convincing anybody with any common sense on that statement. There's no such thing as high fences in fair chase hunting. With your wealth of information, I'd have figured you knew that. :tup:I beg to differ. There are NO high fence hunts that are are by any means, "very much fair chase hunts".
You can beg to differ all you like. If you want to say a 20,000 acre preserve is not a very much fair chase hunt you have no idea :tup:
Post by: lokidog on January 14, 2012, 10:21:13 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 10:31:12 PM
Lokidog its o.k your swamp rats are still great animals :tup: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2012, 10:35:45 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 14, 2012, 10:38:12 PM
Post by: lokidog on January 14, 2012, 10:43:23 PM
:jacked:
You can own the land, but you CANNOT own the wildlife that uses it.
How does that work with fencing an area preventing state "owned" wildlife from leaving? Bobcat, how is it prevented from happening here? Zoning doesn't allow for a deer/elk proof fence unless the animals are cleared out first? Or is it just hunting inside one? And how could that be legal preventing you from hunting your own land if that's the case? :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 10:46:07 PM
Another thing that I would point out, South Africa has gone to more wildlife ranching and less livestock and it has been good for the wildlife and the country. Texas will most likely have hunting on private ranches long after hunting has been banned on public lands in other states. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying high fenced hunting is the only way to go, I am saying it doesn't hurt for it to happen for the folks who want to hunt that way. We used to call this a free country. :twocents:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 10:51:28 PM
I simply do not agree with the private ownership of big game animals, and that's basically what you're doing if you're fencing them in. It doesn't happen in this state because it's illegal (at least there's one good thing about living here). It's the commercialization of hunting that I don't like. It's bad for the image of hunters and hunting all the way around, no matter how you want to look at it. Like I said, I couldn't care less if people want to pay to hunt non-native animals like hogs, goats, or whatever. But I just don't like seeing our native deer and elk turned into nothing but livestock.
I understand that point 100%. There is many ways people look at that as well. There is good and bad and I understand both sides of it. Like the buffalo I am no expert on the subject, but I know if it was not for breeding programs and a lot of work to get them back. There would not be any left. There is bad that comes from farming wildlife as well. To me I really don't mind either way. It is not legal to enclose wild animals and own them, but if the animals are stock and raised from stock then its legal. So as long as it is legal it does not bother me if people raise them or own them. Wild animals are wild and not owned by any person. That's the way that it should be and I agree with that.
Words well wrote Dale :tup:
Post by: PolarBear on January 14, 2012, 10:55:17 PM
I don't care so much if it's non-native big game species that are being "hunted" inside a fence, but I'm 100% against any kind of high fence hunting for native species of deer and elk in this country. Which I guess would mainly be Rocky Mountain elk and whitetail deer. Wildlife is supposed to belong to the public, not fenced in and used for the profit of landowners.:yeah:
I was watching RFDTV and they had an elk auction at some ranch in Oregon. The were selling live bulls and sheds for huge prices. My hunting buddy ran into one of the guys from this ranch at a livestock sale in Hermiston and he said that you wouldn't believe how many guys pay tens of thousands of dollars for huge bulls just to have them trucked to their ranch, released and immediately "hunted" down in in a round pen or fenced in pasture. I can see buying top notched bulls to enhance a herd but to shoot it right out of a trailer with an ear tag still in it is about as sick as it gets in the "hunting" world. Kinda like Troy Gentry shooting a bear in a pen. :bash:
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2012, 11:00:49 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 11:05:47 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 11:08:24 PM
I wasn't saying building a fence is illegal here. What's illegal is game farms. However I do know certain counties do regulate the types of fences people put up, so that in migratory areas the animals cannot be kept from getting to their winter range. I know this is the case in Okanogan County (Methow Valley in particular) but not sure about anywhere else.
I didn't know that about migration routes, makes sense for that reason.
There are game farms, you have to get a game farm license. There are game farms with and without high fence. Depends on the animals you have if you need high fence. There are hunting areas in Washington which hunt native species in season and hunt feral species at other times of the year. WDFW has a list of what you can and cannot own and release or introduce within a fence. I know because I have looked into it, you can find the list on their website if you dig.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 11:12:38 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on January 14, 2012, 11:13:23 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 11:14:57 PM
_________________________
Carp, they can't actually own wild animals, they may control access, but they don't own them. They can own the animals that are not wild animals.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 11:20:19 PM
There is a few game farms that have brought in animals. I thought that in that case they would own them like livestock. Just like bison.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 14, 2012, 11:21:51 PM
let me ask you guys this...with these elk that they raise to ''trophy'' size and charge $20k+ to kill one...how wild are this things...if their raised in pens and let go around june or july when there 8 yrs old and mature animals...are dinner bells part of their hunting gear?...ding ding ding....get ready here he comes! hurry shoot him before he gets to close i dont have any feed!It doesn't have to be in a pen/fence for this to happen. I've seen plenty of wild deer that wait for a feeder to go off. Or the deer/elk that wait around in someone's yard for the apple pile to be refilled. Or even the elk that chase the trailer when the rancher goes to hay the cattle.
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 11:22:01 PM
let me ask you guys this...with these elk that they raise to ''trophy'' size and charge $20k+ to kill one...how wild are this things...if their raised in pens and let go around june or july when there 8 yrs old and mature animals...are dinner bells part of their hunting gear?...ding ding ding....get ready here he comes! hurry shoot him before he gets to close i dont have any feed!
They only get $20,000 for extemely large bulls, like over 450. You can hunt a 350 class bull cheaper on a high fence ranch than with most outfitters.
I'm not at all saying pen raised bulls are the same as wild bulls. But if the owners are keeping their records and immunizing as required by the states where they operate, it's none of my business if a guy wants to go shoot one. No different than shooting a domesticly raised buffalo or pheasant, or fishing for hatchery raised fish. Yes, I know, some guys don't beleive in any of that either.
That's when I suggest people read the bottom of my signature.
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 11:25:29 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 14, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on January 14, 2012, 11:38:49 PM
I hunted a place in Australia that is over 200,000 acres, all high fenced, we had as much fun there as I've ever had anywhere. I will argue with anyone that many of those animals were wilder than animals on the outside that weren't hunted as much.
atleast with that much land the animals have a chance to survive and roam...i just didnt like that fact that they let the animals go a month or 2 before the hunt...they should be all wild runnin around...but thats just me...everyone has their own style of hunting and thats fine...if they want to spend 10-20grand to hunt thats their choice
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2012, 11:51:57 PM
I once took an older gentleman to shoot a big bull on a preserve, he was a decorated veteran, had written for numerous magazines, he was a past olympic shooter, a past state legislator, hunted all over north america, a very accomplished man. He had never killed a big bull and it was something he wanted to before he died after he was diagnosed with cancer. That was one of the most rewarding hunts I have ever done. The taxidermist got it done within 2 months and the guy had it in his home for a month before he passed away. It's hanging on my wall now and it reminds me of a special time.
One thing that does iritate me a little is when a guy kills a 450 class bull and tries to pass it off as a free range hunt. If that was really a wild hunt he would be featured in every major magazine. :chuckle:
South Africa made it against the law to "release and shoot", I saw the law once but can't remember exactly how it reads. I think at least some animals have to be raised freely on the property to hunt them now. That might be lions....
Post by: MtnMuley on January 14, 2012, 11:58:33 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 15, 2012, 12:03:17 AM
High fences :pee: The American way these days. All about the dollar. Hell with ethics. Bet Teddy Roosevelt would be impressed.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as the next guy. :hello:
Post by: Arteman on January 15, 2012, 12:16:00 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 15, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 15, 2012, 12:23:30 AM
If they are such big ranches that the elk would never leave anyway, then why not pull the fences???
It's not legal to release privately owned elk into the wild in any state that I know of. :twocents:
Post by: MtnMuley on January 15, 2012, 12:36:18 AM
Post by: Camp David on January 15, 2012, 04:48:04 AM