Post by: jaymark6655 on January 18, 2012, 09:33:58 AM
I already have a Glock 23 and a 26 for my carry guns.
My thoughts:
The American Classic is made in PI, but it only cost $489.53. I am not sure I like the front slide serrations. I think the the grips are plastic, but can replace those easy enough. It seems to have a lot of features at a the lowest price and is blued (the picture is crappy sorry).
The Mil-spec is the second cheapest at $596.06, but is American made. It has to extra features except the lowered ejection port which they all have. It doesn't have the front serrations :), but the rear ones look weird :(. All the extras I can buy and install over time as I want them. It doesn't have the left side safety, which I didn't want on the gun.
The Loaded is expensive, $765.40. It pretty much has everything I want, but I am not sure about those front serrations. I could get the mil-spec, install an aftermarket trigger, hammer, beavertail safety and Novak sights for about $50 less. It has that retard left side safety (ambi).
Wait why do I need a 1911, I have two glocks. I could take that money and buy my first black powder rifle or save it towards a .338 lapua or another upper for my AR or set up a trust, get my tax stamp and put silencer on that AR.
Post by: hillbilli on January 18, 2012, 09:42:21 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 18, 2012, 09:49:41 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 18, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
Post by: FC on January 18, 2012, 11:03:08 AM
Post by: JohnVH on January 18, 2012, 11:12:05 AM
Post by: fillthefreezer on January 18, 2012, 11:42:10 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 18, 2012, 12:22:55 PM
Aftermarket parts don't always fit the cheaper clones. If you want a real 1911, then go with the Springer or a Colt.
-Steve
Post by: ing on January 18, 2012, 12:52:51 PM
Post by: Swiftkid on January 18, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Post by: superdown on January 18, 2012, 01:18:21 PM
Save a little longer, buy a Kimber and be done with it. If you need to be talked into it, then spend the money on the muzzy if you don't have one.:yeah:
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 18, 2012, 01:21:12 PM
Pretty sure the Metro Arms is out, unless I see one for $300 range.
Post by: uplandhunter870 on January 18, 2012, 01:27:46 PM
Also for 750 odd dollars I'd save a bit longer and pick up something like a kimber custom 2. I got a kimber c2 and love it
Post by: superdown on January 18, 2012, 01:29:28 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 18, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
If it were me I would go with either of the beaver tail grip safeties. I find the narrow grip safety highly uncomfortable. As said above the front serrations are great for racking a round in or cycling the slide after you oil itThis.
Also for 750 odd dollars I'd save a bit longer and pick up something like a kimber custom 2. I got a kimber c2 and love it
Those Springers you're looking at are Imbel forgings with some assembly in the US.
I talked a friend into buying a Springfield Loaded and it is the roughest 1911 I've ever seen, even after a trip back to Illinois.
How about an STI Spartan?
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 18, 2012, 01:54:35 PM
Post by: fillthefreezer on January 18, 2012, 02:12:33 PM
Save a little longer, buy a Kimber and be done with it.i dont get the fascination with kimbers, dollar for dollar i would pick a springfield trp or any of their higher end guns over a kimber or even get a para with a doublestack and save some $$$.
problem with all this talk is it much more than the OP was planning to spend...
Post by: CementFinisher on January 18, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 18, 2012, 04:15:39 PM
Assembled and finished in Texas(possibly a foreign country, depending on who you ask)
Very good fit and finish, function and accuracy in an STI.
Sights are way way better than a Springer GI or Milspec.
Beavertail safety and much better trigger.
If one thinks Kimber is overrated, which they may be, Colt has been gliding on reputation and Koolaid for many years.
Discriminating 1911 buyers know Colts all rattle out of the box.
Post by: FC on January 18, 2012, 04:24:01 PM
Kimbers are far overrated
Agreed.
Discriminating 1911 buyers know Colts all rattle out of the box.
What rattles on a Colt?
I've shot a few 1911's recently, having been on the search for the one I like best. Kimbers are extremely tight fit guns, so tight that I wonder how well they run when dirty. I shot one alongside a Rock Island and actually ended up liking the RI better in every way, pretty sad IMO. Having a shot a few Kimbers now and even repairing a friends that had issues with fmj bullets pushing up the slide release...I wouldn't buy a Kimber at half price, I would sooner own a RI or Springfield.
Post by: thinkingman on January 18, 2012, 04:30:19 PM
Try modern Dan Wesson for THE TIGHTEST fit I've ever seen.Kimbers are far overrated
Agreed.Discriminating 1911 buyers know Colts all rattle out of the box.
What rattles on a Colt?
I've shot a few 1911's recently, having been on the search for the one I like best. Kimbers are extremely tight fit guns, so tight that I wonder how well they run when dirty. I shot one alongside a Rock Island and actually ended up liking the RI better in every way, pretty sad IMO. Having a shot a few Kimbers now and even repairing a friends that had issues with fmj bullets pushing up the slide release...I wouldn't buy a Kimber at half price, I would sooner own a RI or Springfield.
Slide to frame was unbelievable.
It's hard to rack the slide or release the slide when brand new.
Colt.....they just rattle...probably the slide, possibly the grip safety.
They just do....and the guys in the shop just smile and roll their eyes.
People just love The Pony.
Post by: CementFinisher on January 18, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 18, 2012, 07:43:02 PM
Oh and... Uh, building a worthy 1911 when you know nothing about them should be left to gunsmiths that know better. For what you spend on the parts then the tools to assemble it correctly, you'll never be able to sell it for half of what you spent building it.
-Steve
Post by: Bofire on January 18, 2012, 08:03:27 PM
my 2
Carl
Post by: Gutpile on January 18, 2012, 10:59:12 PM
Just a thought.
Post by: thinkingman on January 20, 2012, 09:23:46 AM
As mentioned before, Colts come with loose tolerances from the factory and just like the GI-issued 1911's they resemble, are more likely to receive parts that don't require fine fitting.
If you want a higher-end fit and finish, you pay.
Post by: Swiftkid on January 20, 2012, 06:15:05 PM
.The wiley clapp colt i have doesn't have any "loose tolenrances" the gun is probaly the best pistol i own. I actually have the kimber in the above picture it's an Eclipse Custom II which they don't make anymore in .45, but you can find them in 10mm anyways i would choose my colt any day of the week over the Kimber, Kimbers are very nice but they are also mass produced. The Colt i have gets its specs from TALO so i guess that could be the difference to in the "loose tolerances".
As mentioned before, Colts come with loose tolerances from the factory .
Post by: Harp444 on January 20, 2012, 06:36:54 PM
Post by: Gutpile on January 20, 2012, 08:28:26 PM
Thats what I love about the internet. Ive got two that run perfect but all other Kimbers suck? Kimbers are awesome along with so many others. I can find just as many negative (rumors) because thats what they are, rumors, about springfields. All I have to do is a quick google.
Post by: Redstar on January 20, 2012, 08:54:50 PM
Post by: addicted on January 20, 2012, 09:46:27 PM
COLT Government commander
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 21, 2012, 06:42:10 PM
The coating on the R1 looked strange. It felt weird in my hands and some of the pieces had milling marks on them (not a smooth finished part) and you could tell the grips where cheap wood. On the plus side that thing had a stainless steel barrel and the bushing fit was tight.
The Metro Arms gun, just felt cheap compared to the other two. I can't pick out anything that made it seem like that. Maybe it was the plastic feeling grips (I thought they were suppose to be wood on this model) or maybe it was the blued surface versus the parkerized or maybe it was just in my head because I knew it was cast and only cost less.
As far as Kimbers, maybe some day I might get one. Right now I kind of view them as a snob gun (don't take it personal if you own one, I have read several other forums and post and that's just the way they read) and am convinced I would rather die than ever carry one. I have never seen one in a store for less than the mil-spec. Cheapest I could find started in the $800 range and it does seem that your just paying for the name. Like the difference between buying a lexus or a fully loaded Toyota.
So I will be going with the Springfield. Not sure what I want to do with it. I might try conceal carry, but I doubt it will replace my Glock. I think the only reason I want one is because its 2011 and I have always wanted one. Plus I like the single action trigger pull. There is a Anniversary Edition R1, but its like $2000+ price range, so that's out. I am going to shoot it a lot before I decide what parts I should change on it.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 21, 2012, 10:41:07 PM
Love my Colts. Love my Kimber. But I wouldn't kick a Springer out of bed either!
-Steve
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 21, 2012, 11:08:34 PM
Post by: FC on January 21, 2012, 11:42:48 PM
Post by: JJB11B on January 21, 2012, 11:52:16 PM
Went to the store and got to handle all three. The Springfield felt and looked the best (my personal opinion).I absolutley Love my Springfield 1911-A1 Loaded. That firearm is set up perfect from the factory. Night sights, Good trigger, extended beavertail with a good sized palm swell on the grip safety. Ambidextrous thumb safety :tup:
The coating on the R1 looked strange. It felt weird in my hands and some of the pieces had milling marks on them (not a smooth finished part) and you could tell the grips where cheap wood. On the plus side that thing had a stainless steel barrel and the bushing fit was tight.
The Metro Arms gun, just felt cheap compared to the other two. I can't pick out anything that made it seem like that. Maybe it was the plastic feeling grips (I thought they were suppose to be wood on this model) or maybe it was the blued surface versus the parkerized or maybe it was just in my head because I knew it was cast and only cost less.
As far as Kimbers, maybe some day I might get one. Right now I kind of view them as a snob gun (don't take it personal if you own one, I have read several other forums and post and that's just the way they read) and am convinced I would rather die than ever carry one. I have never seen one in a store for less than the mil-spec. Cheapest I could find started in the $800 range and it does seem that your just paying for the name. Like the difference between buying a lexus or a fully loaded Toyota.
So I will be going with the Springfield. Not sure what I want to do with it. I might try conceal carry, but I doubt it will replace my Glock. I think the only reason I want one is because its 2011 and I have always wanted one. Plus I like the single action trigger pull. There is a Anniversary Edition R1, but its like $2000+ price range, so that's out. I am going to shoot it a lot before I decide what parts I should change on it.
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 25, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
This thing is freaking tight, I have trouble getting the slide on during assembly and nothing rattles.
It has a Stainless steel barrel and bushing. The picture I posted at the start of this thread showed a non stainless bushing so I was a bit suprised.
The frame does not say made in Brazil. From what I could find, Springfield did make some 1911s in Brazil. It seems like the ones that where actually say Brazil on the frame. I was told that Springfield has stopped having 1911s made there. I have one picture below, but have seen others.
I haven't shot it yet, but I expect I will be replacing the cheap holster, getting a beaver tail grip safety and commander hammer and some more magazines.
The 3rd pic shows how tight the slide to frame is. The 4th is a pic of a Brazil pistol. It has a few scratches (I don't have to worry about putting the first scratch on it), but it was $60 cheaper than any new price and most of the places I looked didn't have them in stock, I found only two.
Post by: Seabeckian on January 25, 2012, 10:15:26 PM
Post by: FC on January 26, 2012, 08:46:22 PM
But their 1911's, come on. Don't down play the quality gun it is based on the price.
I base my opinion on my experience, having to fix things that never should have made it out of the factory on a gun that costs that much is ridiculous. Their warranty is a sad joke, they can keep their junk.
Post by: Seabeckian on January 26, 2012, 09:19:19 PM
Sounds like you got yourself a good gun Jaymark! It's always good to see someone make a highly informed decision when purchasing a firearm. And to respond to your comment; I would definetly buy a Infiniti over a fully loaded Toyota (not a Lexus fan) :tup: No matter how much you polish something up, sometimes there's still no substitute for the real deal. Look at the new Kia's haha.
Post by: fillthefreezer on January 27, 2012, 10:47:05 AM
And to respond to your comment; I would definetly buy a Infiniti over a fully loaded Toyota (not a Lexus fan) :tup: No matter how much you polish something up, sometimes there's still no substitute for the real deal. Look at the new Kia's haha.so would you buy a nissan over a toyota because thats all an infinity is...
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 10:54:26 AM
so would you buy a nissan over a toyota because thats all an infinity is...
Some people's kids huh?
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 27, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 10:59:39 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 27, 2012, 11:12:56 AM
:yike: I screwed that up was suppose to say: "Would you buy a Infiniti over a fully loaded Nissan". :sry:
Wait I said Lexus vs Toyota in my first post, what the hell am I appologizing for? :dunno: Was just suppose to draw a comparison of getting a 1911 from a certain manufacturer to buying a the exact same car from Lexus and paying more than you would at Toyota dealership. Of course some prefer Nissan, but its no longer the same car.
I guess a better comparison might be do you get the Toyota 4 Runner or the Nissan Xterra. Problem is I don't know anything about 4 Runner, except they probably cost more.
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 11:46:30 AM
I don't know anything about 4 Runner, except they probably cost more.
For good reason too!
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
That reminds me....I finally got my Tacoma suspension working!I don't know anything about 4 Runner, except they probably cost more.
For good reason too!
It only cost $600 and about 8hrs of my labor.
A 3 yr old 'truck' needs new suspension?
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 01:03:37 PM
That reminds me....I finally got my Tacoma suspension working!
It only cost $600 and about 8hrs of my labor.
A 3 yr old 'truck' needs new suspension?
EIGHT hours! What did you do, replace the entire back end of the truck?
I know that you have had some weird issues with your truck but it's far from the norm, Toyota is well known for quality and longevity.
With the kind of issues you have described to me in the past it makes me wonder why you would ever buy your Tacoma after taking it for a test drive. :twocents:
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 01:46:40 PM
I had to find out if the reputation was deserved or not.That reminds me....I finally got my Tacoma suspension working!
It only cost $600 and about 8hrs of my labor.
A 3 yr old 'truck' needs new suspension?
EIGHT hours! What did you do, replace the entire back end of the truck?
I know that you have had some weird issues with your truck but it's far from the norm, Toyota is well known for quality and longevity.
With the kind of issues you have described to me in the past it makes me wonder why you would ever buy your Tacoma after taking it for a test drive. :twocents:
Test drive did not have the topper on it or my wife, kid and dog in the bed which apparently, the springs think is too much for such a burly 'truck'.
Also, I did not know about the long list of TSB's that Toyota will only recognize if you're under warranty.
Mainly for the resale...it's some powerful Koolaid.
I learned.
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 02:15:12 PM
NO manufacturer does repairs on TSB's unless the vehicle is under warranty, if you want to see an impressive list of bulletins you ought to have a look at pretty much any model Ford, GM, Chrysler, Jeep or VW (probably the worst in all cases is VW).
How you managed to get a new vehicle out of warranty in 3 years is beyond me, I know very few ways to do that.
Post by: h20hunter on January 27, 2012, 02:30:18 PM
Kidding of course. I do own a Kimber and it is a great gun. I also have an XD, great gun. I also have a Springfield 1911, damn fine gun.
I have a Lexus, 2012......and still also drive my 1996 Ford Ranger 2x manual tranny little truck.
Take any product of any reputation and someobody will have a problem with the one they own. Doesn't mean anything about the overall quality.
It looks like to me you got a sweet pistol that will handle your every needs. Good looking gun, gonna shoot nice, fits you......what more can you want.
Thanks for sharing the pics....now get that thing out and shoot!
Post by: Seabeckian on January 27, 2012, 02:38:22 PM
so would you buy a nissan over a toyota because thats all an infinity is...
Some people's kids huh?
Kinda funny you make this personal over my opinion on what I prefer in life.
Fillthefreezer: In hopes of keeping this thread as on track as we have been. Yes I would :). Although I do feel that's like saying an Acura is a Honda. Yes it is. But a completely different level of Honda. I work hard and a lot so I can spend my money in a manner that makes me happy. If that makes me a snobby "kid" (as interrpretred from FC's comment) so be it. I'm happy and that's what matters. Have fun being a grouchy tight fisted old man if that makes you happy FC haha.
Post by: Seabeckian on January 27, 2012, 02:40:47 PM
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 27, 2012, 02:47:06 PM
I don't know anything about 4 Runner, except they probably cost more.
For good reason too!
Xterra Pro-4X $30,170 4 Runner SR5 $32,830
Haven't check everything, but it looks like 4 Runner can seat 7 which is cool, but they don't have a manual transmission.
Xterra can only seat 5, but it does have a manual. Gas mileage, engine hp and torque, towing cap and skid plates all seem to be close to the same.
Manual transmission is big for me so I choose the Xterra.
H2O, will be shooting today or tomorrow actually leaving school now. :) Thinking about doing a glock vs 1911 video that should :stirthepot:
Post by: h20hunter on January 27, 2012, 02:52:31 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 03:13:20 PM
You are hopeless to argue with on this one, you obviously don't know much about autos in general as I have garnered from previous discussion on this topic. I'm not sure what gave you the idea that a Tacoma was a heavy-duty truck, perhaps you should consider a 3/4 ton or larger?Never thought a Tacoma was heavy-duty, not sure where you made that assumption.
NO manufacturer does repairs on TSB's unless the vehicle is under warranty, if you want to see an impressive list of bulletins you ought to have a look at pretty much any model Ford, GM, Chrysler, Jeep or VW (probably the worst in all cases is VW).
How you managed to get a new vehicle out of warranty in 3 years is beyond me, I know very few ways to do that.
A 'truck' should be able to carry 500lbs of people and dog without riding on the bumpstops.
Apparently leaf springs should only work until the 60k warranty expires.
My Kimber 4" and 5" have run perfectly.
Nice fit and finish.
They are nice guns.
Post by: h20hunter on January 27, 2012, 03:16:55 PM
Post by: h20hunter on January 27, 2012, 03:17:14 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 04:06:55 PM
You are hopeless to argue with on this one, you obviously don't know much about autos in general as I have garnered from previous discussion on this topic. I'm not sure what gave you the idea that a Tacoma was a heavy-duty truck, perhaps you should consider a 3/4 ton or larger?Since the thread is jacked, I'll address the statement 'You obviously don't know much about autos in general'...
NO manufacturer does repairs on TSB's unless the vehicle is under warranty, if you want to see an impressive list of bulletins you ought to have a look at pretty much any model Ford, GM, Chrysler, Jeep or VW (probably the worst in all cases is VW).
How you managed to get a new vehicle out of warranty in 3 years is beyond me, I know very few ways to do that.
In 1988, I installed a Jackson Racing suspension kit on my 87 Integra and ran SCCA Solo 1 autocross for two years.
From 1989 to 1995, I actively participated in the SCCA CenDiv chapter....ususally coordinating the F&C (courseworkers) at various road racing venues throughout the Midwest including the nationals at IRP and the runoffs at Nelson Ledges.
During that period, I also graduated from Jim Hall Racing Go-Kart school and thought about campaiging a kart in enduro class, but for lack of space (lived in a condo) didn't pull the trigger.
During the same time I worked for Skip Barber Racing running F&C at their midwest venues to get discount credits for their Formula Ford racing school...My two cousins were racing the the FF series and sponsored a car in the Skip Barber Saab ProSeries (Lifesavers/Planters Peanuts car with various drivers).
In 1996, I bought a 1972 Datsun 240Z with the hopes of running F prod in the NW SCCA chapter.
As I went throught the car and made it ready for road racing, Nissan announced a buyback program for the 26th anniversary of the US Fairlady/Z car and I left it stock as the dashboard, door panels, and engine bay were unmolested.....sold it for twice what I paid in 1998.
The only thing I didn't refresh myself were the twin SU carbs...way outta my league and most 'mechanics' you find in the area.
In the past 11 years, I successfully modded two VW Passats.
Crazy how dead reliable those cars are.
Amazing, really.
In the mean time I put 108k miles on a 1995 Jeep Gr Cherokee that needed NOTHING but basic maintenance and wear items.
My Dodge Durango siezed a front caliper while I owned it...I guess that would qualify as a letdown. $60 and an hour in my garage and it was gtg.
Over that time I kinda got a sense of what what should and shouldn't work on a car.
Post by: Holg3107 on January 27, 2012, 04:21:08 PM
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 04:28:53 PM
so would you buy a nissan over a toyota because thats all an infinity is...
Some people's kids huh?
Kinda funny you make this personal over my opinion on what I prefer in life.
You are reading way too much into that one dude, it was more of a backhanded crack at fillthefreezer than you! I sensed a thread jack in the works and went with it, you may now take your panties off, untwist them and then put them back on :P
Post by: FC on January 27, 2012, 04:38:29 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Thinkingman were you working on the front or rear suspension? I know from first hand experience replacing the front struts can be an absolute nightmare. But in my tacoma I replaced the rear shocks and put on an add a leaf to the leaf springs in around 1.5 hours (Im far from a mechanic). 8.5 hours for the front suspension could be possible if many things went wrong and you didnt have a coil spring compressor.I roll commando.
The rear involved replacing an airbag I had installed to get off the bumpstops....It developed a leak and while replacing that, I decided to replace the shocks with Bilstein 5100's.
The stock shock shaft was rusty and the nut was frozen....Kroil and visegrips got me to the top of the shaft where It would spin as I tried to back off the nut....another hour of cussing....enter the cutting wheel...that was 3 hours on top of the 2 hours I spent installing the airbags to begin with.
The fronts were supposed to drop out if I undid the ball joint bolts and loosened the lower control arm with a floor jack under the LCA to release the spring slowly.....Fail.
Took out the struts and used a wall mount strut compressor to get them done.
That was 3 hrs, mostly wasted time.
The Bilstein 5100's are a major improvement in ride quality.
Much better shock than the OE spec shock on the TRD Tacoma.
I highly recommend them.
Suspension works now.
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 27, 2012, 04:44:03 PM
Post by: thinkingman on January 27, 2012, 04:55:51 PM
Maybe the best 1911 in the $600 category.
Post by: JJB11B on January 31, 2012, 11:56:10 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 01, 2012, 12:29:03 AM
Post by: GEARHEAD on February 01, 2012, 09:14:45 AM