Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 01:13:08 PM
When I was a kid I never trained for hunting but I was an athelete and a kid and didn't really need it at the time. Now that I am in my late 30's I have to earn my fitness. My job is sedentary and outside of hunting and training I don't get what I call accidental excercise.
I have been crossfitting for the last 2 years and following the Train to Hunt website for the last year as well. It appears that most if not all "easy access" to good hunting ground is disappearing quickly. I used to complain about it but now I kind of get excited when I see a new gate at one of my old spots. In fact I am going back to some areas I abandoned years ago now that they are locked up to motorized vehicles.
What do you guys do in the off seaason to stay in shape?
Post by: sebek556 on January 24, 2012, 01:17:27 PM
Post by: 400out on January 24, 2012, 01:21:45 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 24, 2012, 01:46:21 PM
I wouldn't consider myself a "fitness freak" as I hate being in the gym longer than 30-45 minutes a few times a week. For this reason I ensure every work out I do is high intensity and outside the gym as often as possible.
I also try to not be lazy, I run stairs instead of going up an elevator, walk fast or even run places if possible when I am at work, etc.
Most importantly what I don't do is over eat. I don't worry as much about what exactly I eat as I do about not eating too much.
My experience with "easy access" has been different. The top Elk, Mule Deer, Moose and whitetail I have seen during hunting season in this state have all been within one mile of motorized roads.
Post by: shanevg on January 24, 2012, 02:05:34 PM
Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 02:25:28 PM
I CrossFit. No better workout to get in shape for hunting!Agreed! Outside of practice when I was playing sports I never enjoyed working out. In fact I hated it and hated gyms. I still hate the traditional gym but I can't imagine life without crossfit. In addition to getting you into phenomenal shape, the community of people is second to none. I have made life long friends through crossfit and when you meet a fellow crossfitter you instantly understand one another.
Post by: 101521 on January 24, 2012, 02:41:22 PM
Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 03:14:52 PM
I'd agree Crossfit is a good workout cardiovascular wise. I've competed in their "games" and it's the typical go go go. If you're looking lose fat and get "cut" it's not the workout for you. I competed in college athletics and just like being in shape so I've done tons of different stuff and like DB said being in the gym longer than 45 mins is a waste...you're not working hard enough if you're there longer unless you're doing cardio with the lifting. Then I could see being in there longer. What are you looking to do physique wise?I respectfully disagree with some of what you said. Did you see the crossfit games on ESPN? Those dudes were "cut". I was 205 when I started and had about 16% body fat. I now weigh 200 and fluctuate between 8-10% body fat.
Most of the workouts are short by workout standards.I would say on average 15-20 minutes and occasionally longer but not often. Crossfit is also rooted in traditional weight lifting. By traditional I mean Olympic.
I don't think the motivation to workout should stem from appearance although most make it that. I also believe that is why most fail to stick with it. My only motivation to workout is performance driven. How much work can you get done in a given amount of time. How much meat can you pack for how long? How much ground can you cover in how much time?
I don't want to have to consider whether I can get on a bull that just bugled because it sounds a long way away. The fact that I have a six pack and fill out a t-shirt is coincidental.
Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 03:25:42 PM
Post by: EDT on January 24, 2012, 06:34:33 PM
I'd agree Crossfit is a good workout cardiovascular wise. I've competed in their "games" and it's the typical go go go. If you're looking lose fat and get "cut" it's not the workout for you. I competed in college athletics and just like being in shape so I've done tons of different stuff and like DB said being in the gym longer than 45 mins is a waste...you're not working hard enough if you're there longer unless you're doing cardio with the lifting. Then I could see being in there longer. What are you looking to do physique wise?I respectfully disagree with some of what you said. Did you see the crossfit games on ESPN? Those dudes were "cut". I was 205 when I started and had about 16% body fat. I now weigh 200 and fluctuate between 8-10% body fat.
Most of the workouts are short by workout standards.I would say on average 15-20 minutes and occasionally longer but not often. Crossfit is also rooted in traditional weight lifting. By traditional I mean Olympic.
I don't think the motivation to workout should stem from appearance although most make it that. I also believe that is why most fail to stick with it. My only motivation to workout is performance driven. How much work can you get done in a given amount of time. How much meat can you pack for how long? How much ground can you cover in how much time?
I don't want to have to consider whether I can get on a bull that just bugled because it sounds a long way away. The fact that I have a six pack and fill out a t-shirt is coincidental.
I have to agree with Seabass. Im a physical therapist and, clinically and scientifically, if you want to lose weight and get "cut," crossfit is great if you follow it.
Post by: shanevg on January 24, 2012, 08:40:37 PM
I'd agree Crossfit is a good workout cardiovascular wise. I've competed in their "games" and it's the typical go go go. If you're looking lose fat and get "cut" it's not the workout for you. I competed in college athletics and just like being in shape so I've done tons of different stuff and like DB said being in the gym longer than 45 mins is a waste...you're not working hard enough if you're there longer unless you're doing cardio with the lifting. Then I could see being in there longer. What are you looking to do physique wise?I respectfully disagree with some of what you said. Did you see the crossfit games on ESPN? Those dudes were "cut". I was 205 when I started and had about 16% body fat. I now weigh 200 and fluctuate between 8-10% body fat.
Most of the workouts are short by workout standards.I would say on average 15-20 minutes and occasionally longer but not often. Crossfit is also rooted in traditional weight lifting. By traditional I mean Olympic.
I don't think the motivation to workout should stem from appearance although most make it that. I also believe that is why most fail to stick with it. My only motivation to workout is performance driven. How much work can you get done in a given amount of time. How much meat can you pack for how long? How much ground can you cover in how much time?
I don't want to have to consider whether I can get on a bull that just bugled because it sounds a long way away. The fact that I have a six pack and fill out a t-shirt is coincidental.
:yeah:
I also agree with Seabass. The whole point of CrossFit is total body fitness. Every single day you do fundamental, Olympic style lifting in addition to a 4-30 minute cardio workout (definitely keeping to the 15 minutes or less more often than not.) I can't think of any other workout you can do for an hour a day and reach the same total body fitness that CrossFit provides.
Most the people at my CrossFit gym have lost anywhere from 40-120 pounds from CrossFit alone. In my book it has proven a great way to stay fit in all aspect of the fitness game.
Post by: FarBeyondDriven on January 24, 2012, 09:13:08 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 24, 2012, 09:27:30 PM
I think there is no better way to train for the mountains than to train "in" the mountains. I prefer doing that as much as possible and limit my time in a gym. I might not be able to do as many burpee's as a hardcore crossfit guy but I can't say that I have been found lacking at the activities I enjoy.
Post by: 44 Flattop on January 24, 2012, 09:41:22 PM
The extra strength gained from iron makes a huge difference in handling a big quarter of an elk or an entire deer. Almost 53 years old and I can still pack out an elk from a nice deep canyon :)
Oh, and lots and lots of hiking.
44
Post by: Bearhunter on January 24, 2012, 09:46:05 PM
Post by: EDT on January 24, 2012, 09:48:22 PM
Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
:yeah:I don't think there is a one of us that wouldn't prefer to train in the mountains every day but not that many of us have that option 4-5 days per week. When I was a kid and boxing we sparred and trained in 4 minute rounds even though a fight was 3 minute rounds. The point was to create an environment more difficult than the actual event. Not every day in the field is going to test your abilities but at some point it will happen. I like to train for that day. Obviously you don't have to take that approach to be successful. I have never been disappointed by being over prepared.
I think there is no better way to train for the mountains than to train "in" the mountains. I prefer doing that as much as possible and limit my time in a gym. I might not be able to do as many burpee's as a hardcore crossfit guy but I can't say that I have been found lacking at the activities I enjoy.
Post by: Wtrfowlr62 on January 24, 2012, 10:05:15 PM
Post by: Seabass on January 24, 2012, 10:13:05 PM
I don't know if it qualifies me as a 'Fitness Freak', but I haven't missed a session with the iron for about 22 years now, and that is 4 times per week........! Squat, bench, dead, militaries, chins, etc.
The extra strength gained from iron makes a huge difference in handling a big quarter of an elk or an entire deer. Almost 53 years old and I can still pack out an elk from a nice deep canyon :)
Oh, and lots and lots of hiking.
44
That's awesome! 53 and still *censored*.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 24, 2012, 10:19:25 PM
:yeah:I don't think there is a one of us that wouldn't prefer to train in the mountains every day but not that many of us have that option 4-5 days per week. When I was a kid and boxing we sparred and trained in 4 minute rounds even though a fight was 3 minute rounds. The point was to create an environment more difficult than the actual event. Not every day in the field is going to test your abilities but at some point it will happen. I like to train for that day. Obviously you don't have to take that approach to be successful. I have never been disappointed by being over prepared.
I think there is no better way to train for the mountains than to train "in" the mountains. I prefer doing that as much as possible and limit my time in a gym. I might not be able to do as many burpee's as a hardcore crossfit guy but I can't say that I have been found lacking at the activities I enjoy.
:tup: Training in the mountains often is definitely a luxury that we can't all have. The next best thing I have found for the mountains is training and running trail ultra's....When I lived in TX I would do those and adventure races but for some reason the Northwest doesn't have a lot of adventure races. I think the Ultra's and Expedition length adventure races are great for this because they can truly test your limits and you really learn what pushing you body to the limit truly means. You learn how to effectively utilize energy and make good decisions under stress.
I did crossfit hard for one year and I felt great but I can't say that I was at my peak performance in the mountains....but I wasn't hurting either....doing crossfit I was certainly more well rounded than I am today.... I agree that one should train for an event that is more difficult than you are going to regularly experience... but that is also why I put an equal focus on woodsmanship/survival skill sets.....of course the bonus is that my career as Survival Instructor allows me to practice these often.
Post by: 44 Flattop on January 24, 2012, 10:24:24 PM
For the 'most part', age is all in your head.
44
Post by: FarBeyondDriven on January 25, 2012, 08:33:34 AM
Bottom line, we don't get to play in the woods 4-5x a week, but it would be sweet if we could. Cross-Training and gravitating towards the areas of your athletic profile that you suck it is the tried and true way to Tame The Mountain. If we all just go do the workouts that we want to because we're good at them and excel at them; if we're honest, we probably just working on our strengths and continuing to ignore our weaknesses.
Post by: Seabass on January 25, 2012, 09:42:13 AM
I played college basketball and I have always been able to run and jump but I would crumble under a load. Everybody likes to be succesful so it is easy to understand why we gravitate towards our strenghts. My hope is to one day be just as confident at the heavy stuff as I am the endurance/speed stuff.
I'm still hoping to hear from a swimmer and how swimming has helped in their training.
Post by: h20hunter on January 25, 2012, 09:50:07 AM
If you can get some pool time it will greatly increase your stamina and endurance. It is very much a full body work out and will bring your cardio up a level. Like hunting, swimming involves traveling a set distance at a certain pace. If you blow yourself out you are done. You can't leave the truck at a sprint and expect to get to your stand in any kind of hunting shape. You will learn that if you have rythem (sp?) with your breathing and efforts your speed, stamina, and over all performance will increase.
Another aspect of swimming that can't be over looked is that it is simply easier on the body than the stair climber. Being almost a no impact sport it is easy on the knees.
Lap after lap can get a bit mundane. Mix it up. Get out. Do some crunches, pushups, jump some rope ( maybe wear a speedo under those shorts for this one), do some push ups from in the water using the pool edge.
Post by: runamuk on January 25, 2012, 09:52:31 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 25, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
I do want to address the weakenesses/strengths. I will always have weaknesses and I will certainly focus on those weaknesses with cross-training. However, I also believe in fostering and developing strengths that are a primary part of my pursuits. When I was only doing crossfit I found that while I was strong in the mountains I wasn't at my peak performance (for what I wanted to do) compared to when I was doing expedition length adventure races/ultra's (combined with some cross-training of course).
If my goal is to be a total body fitness crossfit jedi master then it would make sense to do primarily crossfit. However, since my goals are specific I have found that mixing in cross-training while developing/fostering specific strengths has helped me more in the mountains than only doing crossfit in and of itself..... That being said I think anyone taking crossfit seriously should be more than prepared for most anything they will face in the mountains.....but i think there are strengths that you can develop/foster along with that cross-training that will assist you even more.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 25, 2012, 10:02:12 AM
I can give you a bit of perspective on swimming. I trained and competed from age 6 or so up until I graduated college. I've done everything from open water 5k's to the opening leg in a triathalon to national level competitions two steps below Olympic trials.
If you can get some pool time it will greatly increase your stamina and endurance. It is very much a full body work out and will bring your cardio up a level. Like hunting, swimming involves traveling a set distance at a certain pace. If you blow yourself out you are done. You can't leave the truck at a sprint and expect to get to your stand in any kind of hunting shape. You will learn that if you have rythem (sp?) with your breathing and efforts your speed, stamina, and over all performance will increase.
Another aspect of swimming that can't be over looked is that it is simply easier on the body than the stair climber. Being almost a no impact sport it is easy on the knees.
Lap after lap can get a bit mundane. Mix it up. Get out. Do some crunches, pushups, jump some rope ( maybe wear a speedo under those shorts for this one), do some push ups from in the water using the pool edge.
The low imapact/high fitness aspect of swimming (which I am not great at) is what I believe makes it such a beneficial activity.
Post by: JLS on January 25, 2012, 10:13:17 AM
There is a great run in Hell's Canyon in March. Look up Seaport Striders webpage and it will be on there. You can do a 15 or a 28 mile version.
One thought on running vs. low impact. Impact exercise is necessary to build higher bone density. There is a lot of research on this, but bottom line is that the impact from running will develop and maintain stronger bones than if you don't run.
Post by: buglin4bulls on January 25, 2012, 10:15:53 AM
I don't know if it qualifies me as a 'Fitness Freak', but I haven't missed a session with the iron for about 22 years now, and that is 4 times per week........! Squat, bench, dead, militaries, chins, etc.
The extra strength gained from iron makes a huge difference in handling a big quarter of an elk or an entire deer. Almost 53 years old and I can still pack out an elk from a nice deep canyon :)
Oh, and lots and lots of hiking.
44
When I first started reading your post I was laughing :chuckle: until I read the squat, bench etc... I thought you were really good at ironing clothes lol.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 25, 2012, 10:29:28 AM
DB,
There is a great run in Hell's Canyon in March. Look up Seaport Striders webpage and it will be on there. You can do a 15 or a 28 mile version.
One thought on running vs. low impact. Impact exercise is necessary to build higher bone density. There is a lot of research on this, but bottom line is that the impact from running will develop and maintain stronger bones than if you don't run.
Thanks for letting me know about that run. I went and checked it out. It looks awesome!
Good points on the benefits of impact excercise.
Post by: wadu1 on January 25, 2012, 10:46:39 AM
Post by: h20hunter on January 25, 2012, 10:50:07 AM
Post by: kglacken on January 25, 2012, 11:35:31 AM
Post by: Wtrfowlr62 on January 25, 2012, 10:56:45 PM
I'm sure Jim appreciates it....he gets lonely.
LOL
Post by: 44 Flattop on January 26, 2012, 06:52:18 AM
When I first started reading your post I was laughing :chuckle: until I read the squat, bench etc... I thought you were really good at ironing clothes lol.Heh, I guess I can see how you were thinking that! :chuckle:
Powerlifters consider weights 'iron' and that is what we battle in the big compound movements.. :tup:
44
Post by: rebal69972 on January 26, 2012, 07:23:28 AM
Post by: bwhntr2819 on January 26, 2012, 07:27:57 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 26, 2012, 07:31:08 AM
Post by: ashersdad on January 26, 2012, 07:56:24 AM
Post by: Seabass on January 26, 2012, 10:03:51 AM
Post by: Seabass on January 26, 2012, 10:12:19 AM
Post by: Cuda on January 26, 2012, 10:13:37 AM
"Fitness Magazine states that a 150-lb. person will burn 551 calories per hour while snowshoeing. Snowshoeing burns about 45 percent more calories than walking or running when done at the same pace and on the same type of terrain."
I dont know about you all but I'm not 150 so probably more calories than that. If I had a choice I would rather snowshoe than run.....being outdoors in the terrain and maybe finding a horn or two. Great workout and lots of fun (especially with my 40lb kid in the backpack!)
Post by: h20hunter on January 26, 2012, 10:16:48 AM
Post by: deerslyr on January 26, 2012, 10:26:08 AM
This is a workout I got from one of the Train To Hunt guys. It is what I would call a measuring stick type workout. I haven't done it yet but I'm hoping to do it this weekend. Wearing a 40# pack do 1000 step ups on a 20 in. box. I believe the goal is to complete it in 50 min. or less. It is the equivalent of 1666 vertical feet.
This is something I must add to my arsenal! Thats some thing everyone can do with minimal space and minimal equipment
Post by: Seabass on January 26, 2012, 10:45:36 AM
Let us know how it went after you complete it. I will do the same.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 26, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
This is a workout I got from one of the Train To Hunt guys. It is what I would call a measuring stick type workout. I haven't done it yet but I'm hoping to do it this weekend. Wearing a 40# pack do 1000 step ups on a 20 in. box. I believe the goal is to complete it in 50 min. or less. It is the equivalent of 1666 vertical feet.
This is something I must add to my arsenal! Thats some thing everyone can do with minimal space and minimal equipment
It's a great workout.
Post by: Cascade_fisher on January 26, 2012, 01:38:01 PM
Rotating sports is really helpful mentally as well as not overusing any particular muscle group but make sure you get PLENTY of rest/recovery and eat healthy. Make sure you use "periodization" so that you build and allow your body to catch up.
Cheers,
C_F
Ironman triathlete and 52 minute swimmer/ 2.4 miles before riding 112 on a bike before running 26.2
Make sure you look forward to your workouts and keep a journal of your morning heart rate which is a good and free indicator of overtraining.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 26, 2012, 01:40:33 PM
Post by: wraithen on January 26, 2012, 02:08:54 PM
Rhythm is crucial for swimming but you can train yourself. Most pools have little floats you put between your thighs to practice sculling. You only use your hands and arms. Follow the path of most resistance and you will get a good stroke. Never breathe on the same side twice in a row. Learn flip turns, they will increase your lung efficiency quickly. Don't forget to isolate your legs by using the kickboards at the pool. Again, the most difficult way (not bending your knees more than absolutely necessary, you'll feel it when you get it right,) will also be the fastest propulsion, but that type of kick won't work when you're actually swimming. Rotate your hips with your arms, the arm that is reaching out should have the hip on that side lower in the water. Don't be afraid of breathing near water, once you're moving at a good pace then only half your mouth need be out of the water. (Sounds crazy but it's true.) Don't look down when swimming, the water should be at the top of your forehead, (think proper pushup form) These are the few bits of advice off the top of my head. :chuckle:
Post by: Clancy on January 26, 2012, 02:38:35 PM
Post by: Vek on January 26, 2012, 06:05:02 PM
Crossfit is interesting, but be real careful about doing some of the movements. I tore a pec pretty good doing knee-to-elbow at a high rate of speed. I'm convinced that crossfit is primarily a waste of time unless you've done some work to achieve a strength state where you don't have to scale back any of the loads. Even then, mainpage programming skips too far all over the map to do anyone any real good. GPP can be trained without making yourself sore all of the time, or sacrificing significant strength as happened to me.
Post by: JLS on January 26, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
This is a workout I got from one of the Train To Hunt guys. It is what I would call a measuring stick type workout. I haven't done it yet but I'm hoping to do it this weekend. Wearing a 40# pack do 1000 step ups on a 20 in. box. I believe the goal is to complete it in 50 min. or less. It is the equivalent of 1666 vertical feet.
This is something I must add to my arsenal! Thats some thing everyone can do with minimal space and minimal equipment
It's a great workout.
I did it in 52 minutes with a 50 lb back of rock salt on my pack. It's mind numbing to count to 1000.
Post by: SniperDanWA on January 26, 2012, 10:38:48 PM
Post by: JLS on January 27, 2012, 06:41:52 AM
Ice your shin splints and look at getting some new shoes.
Post by: wraithen on January 27, 2012, 07:18:30 AM
Post by: Seabass on January 27, 2012, 08:46:06 AM
Post by: archery288 on January 27, 2012, 09:04:44 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 27, 2012, 09:26:09 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 27, 2012, 09:38:30 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 27, 2012, 09:43:20 AM
Post by: Seabass on January 27, 2012, 12:12:36 PM
Nice work! I am scheduled for this one tomorrow and will post my time.This is a workout I got from one of the Train To Hunt guys. It is what I would call a measuring stick type workout. I haven't done it yet but I'm hoping to do it this weekend. Wearing a 40# pack do 1000 step ups on a 20 in. box. I believe the goal is to complete it in 50 min. or less. It is the equivalent of 1666 vertical feet.
This is something I must add to my arsenal! Thats some thing everyone can do with minimal space and minimal equipment
It's a great workout.
I did it in 52 minutes with a 50 lb back of rock salt on my pack. It's mind numbing to count to 1000.
Post by: JLS on January 27, 2012, 12:34:19 PM
I walked on our treadmill (on full incline) with a heavy pack when I was getting in shape for Mt. Adams a couple of years ago. I think this is a better workout.
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 27, 2012, 03:53:48 PM
Being in shape to do the style of hunting you plan doing is surely important, but I feel being mentally strong enough to go the extra few miles/days is just as important. I see a lot of people that get mentally tired and call it quits. :twocents:
:yeah: I wasn't in the best shape of my life this fall and because I was the recipient of some good ole Marine Corps training that prepared me for a lot of mental abuse I was able to overcome my tiredness and keep on pushing otherwise I was dead physically packing out my bull.
The walk-in was easy but when you're packing out that's when it got tiresome. In and out, in and out until I was done and my legs were numb but it was worth it. I'm getting started earlier this year and so far january is looking very good for me physically.
Just get out and do it.
Post by: Seabass on January 27, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
Good luck. Seriously, it's difficult to keep an accurate count. I probably did some extra steps along the way because I'd zone out and completely lose track of where I was at.My plan is to do 250 per side of the box. There is no way I could count to 1,000 otherwise. I'm way too ADD.
I walked on our treadmill (on full incline) with a heavy pack when I was getting in shape for Mt. Adams a couple of years ago. I think this is a better workout.
Post by: deerslyr on January 27, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
Good luck. Seriously, it's difficult to keep an accurate count. I probably did some extra steps along the way because I'd zone out and completely lose track of where I was at.My plan is to do 250 per side of the box. There is no way I could count to 1,000 otherwise. I'm way too ADD.
I walked on our treadmill (on full incline) with a heavy pack when I was getting in shape for Mt. Adams a couple of years ago. I think this is a better workout.
Yah I may have to recruit some one to count for me :chuckle:
Im going snowboarding tomorrow so I think ill wait until monday to try it out. Ill let you guys know how it goes.
Post by: AKBowman on January 28, 2012, 12:08:05 AM
Sometimes I'll change it up for three weeks and not touch a weight but change to all plyometrics/self body weight lifting type exercices.
Legs
Bi's/Chest/abs
Cardio
Tri's/ Back/abs
Cardio
Shoulders
Cardio
Protein shakes for breakfast every day.
I'm getting pretty ripped and cant wait to hit the trails this summer.
Post by: AKBowman on January 28, 2012, 12:18:07 AM
By doing two muscle groups a day at the gym and minimal rest between sets I have really noticed a difference in my cardio level. Its easy for me to get bulked up and I like the feeling of being strong that comes with it but dont like the lack of agility.
I also forgot to add that I go through a complete body stretcing routine in between ab sets.
I'll try P90X or crossedfit when I stop seeing results...I like to be in control of my workouts and dont really like depending on other people when it comes to working out.
The 1000box step ups sounds like one hell of a full leg work out to me.
Post by: FarBeyondDriven on January 28, 2012, 08:46:41 AM
Post by: wraithen on January 28, 2012, 08:57:28 AM
Post by: Seabass on January 28, 2012, 09:13:05 AM
I may have to give something like crossfit a go. I've tried the whole back/bi chest/tri's workouts for 9 months at a time with almost zero improvement. My body loves to be at a pretty heavy weight so I should have been ripped after doing it for 9 months and eating extremely healthy (including adjusting my macro nutrients, couldn't do much with the micros) I just need to get this darn shoulder cut up and put together first. Stupid army surgeons.
Wraithen,
I feel your shoulder pain. I hurt myself pretty good in 2010 and felt like I had been given a temporary death sentence. My trainers helped me a ton and I also found some awesome rehab/prehab stuff that helped me as well. Take a look at this site that is totally dedicated to rehab stuff. Most of it is directed towards shoulders. It is all free information by a dude that is on the cutting edge of injury rehab and prevention. Www.mobilitywod.com.
Post by: archery288 on January 28, 2012, 09:15:33 AM
Being in shape to do the style of hunting you plan doing is surely important, but I feel being mentally strong enough to go the extra few miles/days is just as important. I see a lot of people that get mentally tired and call it quits. :twocents:
That's the truth right there! Being mentally tough is probably as important if not MORE important than being in extreme shape. If you can't take the pain that goes along with hunting deep, you're not going to make it.
Post by: Seabass on January 28, 2012, 10:34:57 AM
Quickest way to looking ripped without doing something unhealthy is to eat like a cave man. The more refined term is paleo but caveman sounds less lame. Try eating nothing but lean meat, fruit, vegetables, and nuts for 4 weeks and you will be absolutely shocked. I tried it a couple of years ago and lost 23 pounds of pure fat in 6 weeks. I didn't even look overweight when I started. I simply wanted more energy and decided to try eating healthy. The simple rule of thumb (with the exception of nuts and fruit) if you dont have to refrigerate it you can't eat it.
Post by: Seabass on January 28, 2012, 11:01:01 AM
Post by: AKBowman on January 28, 2012, 11:02:18 AM
For all the guys that are wanting to look "ripped", you will most likely achieve this through nutrition quicker than adjusting your workout. I'm not advocating training for aesthetics but we all like to look good. Certainly adjusting both would get you there quicker but you will get more bang for your buck with your nutrition. All muscle looks the same from the outside once uncovered and we all have a six pack. Most people just can't see it because the depressions in our abs have been filled in with fat.
Quickest way to looking ripped without doing something unhealthy is to eat like a cave man. The more refined term is paleo but caveman sounds less lame. Try eating nothing but lean meat, fruit, vegetables, and nuts for 4 weeks and you will be absolutely shocked. I tried it a couple of years ago and lost 23 pounds of pure fat in 6 weeks. I didn't even look overweight when I started. I simply wanted more energy and decided to try eating healthy. The simple rule of thumb (with the exception of nuts and fruit) if you dont have to refrigerate it you can't eat it.
Thats the truth right there. I can work out for months and not see (or more importantly not "feel") a big difference. Coupling the weight/cardio/plyometric training with nutrition is right on. I think you are correct the most important and probably the easiest thing to do is eat correctly. I like the "caveman" diet as well.
As far as having "big biceps" not helping in the mtns I agree whole heartedly. A few yrs ago I was lifting weights 5-6 days/wk doing one muscle group per day. Resting longer between 4 sets of 8 reps of 4 exercices per muscle group. Definitely bulked up but muscle is heavy and although the brute strength was nice I was getting pounded into the ground on the mtn by my buddy who was ~40lbs lighter than me and significantly skinnier. He was flexible and in good cardio shape.
I still highly prefer the specifics of targeting muscle groups in isolation type workouts but doing two muscle groups in a workout with very minimal rest between sets and upping he reps to 15 has made a great difference. I cannot wait to couple the in gym workouts with the field work of busting 4 miles back in the Olympic and Cascade ranges this summer. Nothing can replace the training needed to carry a load up and down a 4K foot elevation gain in less than 4 miles of trail other than getting out on the mtn and doing it!
Way to go guys I'm glad this thread came up and its interesting to hear everyone elses routine. I feel like I can take a lot of good ideas and apply them to my workouts now.
Post by: Seabass on January 28, 2012, 03:26:06 PM
Think about it this way...when you go to raise your pack are you using 1,2, or even 3 muscle groups in isolation. Outside of the gym I would challenge anyone to come up with any functional facet of life where a single muscle group is used in isolation.
Just in the simple act of putting your pack on (when loaded) you are using most of your body. So why would you train those muscles in isolation. None of the top atheletes in the world use any isolation lifts. Why would we?
Post by: bone head on January 28, 2012, 05:43:15 PM
Post by: AKBowman on January 28, 2012, 06:42:49 PM
It is a great misconception that bulk equals strength or that in order to get stronger you have to gain weight. That is a 1980's methodology and been proven wrong many moons ago. That is why isolation training is not that effective in gaining overall strength. It will make that muscle group stronger but it is completely non-functional and can actually lead to severe injury.
Think about it this way...when you go to raise your pack are you using 1,2, or even 3 muscle groups in isolation. Outside of the gym I would challenge anyone to come up with any functional facet of life where a single muscle group is used in isolation.
Just in the simple act of putting your pack on (when loaded) you are using most of your body. So why would you train those muscles in isolation. None of the top atheletes in the world use any isolation lifts. Why would we?
That's where the plyometrics and the aerobics come into play. And you are not correct when you say that athletes dont do iso training, almost ALL of the highest level athletes do isolation lifting (Professional basketball, football, hockey, golf even olympic sprinters etc, etc) You think Michael Johnson got those arms and back from Crossfit? I dont think so. What would you call it when they test BENCH PRESS at the NFL combine? I would call that an isolation lift and those guys are the top athletes in the world. Weight lifting is definitely a must if you want to have rounded out form and overall strength also definitely a must to mix in aerobics, plyo type exercises, stretching and Crossfit type exercises.
I think we all respect the way the Crossfit guys choose to work out, theres no doubt its intense and great for rounding out your strength and stability but I know how to get in to great shape and isolation weight lifting is a big part of it.
Good luck this year!
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 28, 2012, 06:54:49 PM
It is a great misconception that bulk equals strength or that in order to get stronger you have to gain weight. That is a 1980's methodology and been proven wrong many moons ago. That is why isolation training is not that effective in gaining overall strength. It will make that muscle group stronger but it is completely non-functional and can actually lead to severe injury.
Think about it this way...when you go to raise your pack are you using 1,2, or even 3 muscle groups in isolation. Outside of the gym I would challenge anyone to come up with any functional facet of life where a single muscle group is used in isolation.
Just in the simple act of putting your pack on (when loaded) you are using most of your body. So why would you train those muscles in isolation. None of the top atheletes in the world use any isolation lifts. Why would we?
That's where the plyometrics and the aerobics come into play. And you are not correct when you say that athletes dont do iso training, almost ALL of the highest level athletes do isolation lifting (Professional basketball, football, hockey, golf even olympic sprinters etc, etc) You think Michael Johnson got those arms and back from Crossfit? I dont think so. What would you call it when they test BENCH PRESS at the NFL combine? I would call that an isolation lift and those guys are the top athletes in the world. Weight lifting is definitely a must if you want to have rounded out form and overall strength also definitely a must to mix in aerobics, plyo type exercises, stretching and Crossfit type exercises.
I think we all respect the way the Crossfit guys choose to work out, theres no doubt its intense and great for rounding out your strength and stability but I know how to get in to great shape and isolation weight lifting is a big part of it.
Good luck this year!
Seabass,
Muscle isolation has it's benefits, really a balance of both is necessary for athletes to achieve optimum performance. If you really want to improve, a balance of "traditional" exercises plus the use of "functional strength" exercises are necessary. Because of the nature of some functional exercises, major muscle groups can't perform to their max b/c the small (supportive) muscle groups are limited in what they can handle. Of course all of this is relative to the individual and their goals.
Crossfit has numerous benefits, but it's not complete. Honestly the only professional trainers that think crossfit is a complete system, in all aspects, are those specifically trained by/for Cross Fit.
This thread would be appropriately titled "Any Cross Fit Freaks Out There?" :chuckle:
Post by: AKBowman on January 28, 2012, 07:04:25 PM
"Crossfit has numerous benefits, but it's not complete. Honestly the only professional trainers that think crossfit is a complete system, in all aspects, are those specifically trained by/for Cross Fit."
I didnt want to be the one to say it :chuckle:
Too much of one thing cant be good...unless its this Dryers Limited Edition Samoa Girl Scout Cookie ice cream the Fiance just brought home!! :yike:
Post by: Seabass on January 28, 2012, 07:31:07 PM
We may be misunderstanding each other. When I think of iso lifts I think bicep curl, shoulder shrug, weighted calf raises, fore arm curls and a host of other lifts that have no other use other than aesthetics. Training has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years and Michael Johnson could very well have built those biceps through curls but is there a more vein athlete than a sprinter?
Post by: wraithen on January 28, 2012, 08:04:32 PM
Post by: 44 Flattop on January 28, 2012, 09:41:35 PM
What would you call it when they test BENCH PRESS at the NFL combine? I would call that an isolation lift and those guys are the top athletes in the world.Actually, performed correctly a bench press is a very large COMPOUND movement. Something like a curl, commonly referred to as an isolation movement is also a compound movement.
A bench press uses just about every muscle group in your body if performed correctly, from triceps, back, shoulders, forearms, chest, abs, quads, even hamstrings. Ever had a cramp in your hips or hammie when benching? I sure have. And even the lowly curls use not just biceps, but also forearms, traps, triceps, abs and thighs when performed heavily enough. Try curling 200lbs using only biceps..... :chuckle:
A deadlift and squats are a whole-body movement. They utilize every muscle group from your ears to your toes and everyone who plans on carrying a heavy pack will benefit more from them than any other sort of work. You want cardio work with weight? Try squatting 405 for 20 reps taking 5 minutes to complete it and then check your heart rate :yike:
I've done just about everything you can think of in the past 3 decades of work in the gym, from HIT to Tabata to Crossfit to Dragondoor Kettlebells to Olympic lifting to powerlifting. When push comes to shove I feel best on the trail and seriously seldom even tire, when powerlifting. Not performing just singles, but using the powerlifts using medium to higher reps. I consider everything outside of powerlifting to be just a fad............ :IBCOOL:
But again seriously, imagine how trails feel when you can squat 2X bodyweight for over 20 reps, 2 1/2 times BW deadlifts for over 20 reps, bench press 1 1/2 times your BW for 10 reps and chin with 100lbs around your waist for 10 reps. You just don't get tired.
44
Post by: AKBowman on January 29, 2012, 06:37:04 AM
What would you call it when they test BENCH PRESS at the NFL combine? I would call that an isolation lift and those guys are the top athletes in the world.Actually, performed correctly a bench press is a very large COMPOUND movement. Something like a curl, commonly referred to as an isolation movement is also a compound movement.
A bench press uses just about every muscle group in your body if performed correctly, from triceps, back, shoulders, forearms, chest, abs, quads, even hamstrings. Ever had a cramp in your hips or hammie when benching? I sure have. And even the lowly curls use not just biceps, but also forearms, traps, triceps, abs and thighs when performed heavily enough. Try curling 200lbs using only biceps..... :chuckle:
A deadlift and squats are a whole-body movement. They utilize every muscle group from your ears to your toes and everyone who plans on carrying a heavy pack will benefit more from them than any other sort of work. You want cardio work with weight? Try squatting 405 for 20 reps taking 5 minutes to complete it and then check your heart rate :yike:
I've done just about everything you can think of in the past 3 decades of work in the gym, from HIT to Tabata to Crossfit to Dragondoor Kettlebells to Olympic lifting to powerlifting. When push comes to shove I feel best on the trail and seriously seldom even tire, when powerlifting. Not performing just singles, but using the powerlifts using medium to higher reps. I consider everything outside of powerlifting to be just a fad............ :IBCOOL:
But again seriously, imagine how trails feel when you can squat 2X bodyweight for over 20 reps, 2 1/2 times BW deadlifts for over 20 reps, bench press 1 1/2 times your BW for 10 reps and chin with 100lbs around your waist for 10 reps. You just don't get tired.
44
Dang! I would love to get to that point. Would save a lot of ammo by just running them down and snapping their necks with yhour bare hands!!
Totally agree though, I feel GREAT when lifting and mentally I feel I can do anything I need to do to "get it done"!
Post by: CoryTDF on January 29, 2012, 07:18:42 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 29, 2012, 10:25:14 AM
Thanks...oh and by reading this, it solidifies the fact that I have a lot of work to do.
:yike:
Post by: JLS on January 29, 2012, 12:23:37 PM
Pace really varies by the terrain involved. If it's a pretty flat and non tecnnical course, somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 minute mile. If it's technical with some tough uphills that require walking/powerhiking, then it'll be around 12-15 minutes per mile.
And of course heat and altitude play a huge role too.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 29, 2012, 12:39:10 PM
Let me preface this with the fact that I'm no gazelle. As a comparison to the following paces, I'll usually do Bloomsday in 53-55 minutes.
Pace really varies by the terrain involved. If it's a pretty flat and non tecnnical course, somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 minute mile. If it's technical with some tough uphills that require walking/powerhiking, then it'll be around 12-15 minutes per mile.
And of course heat and altitude play a huge role too.
:yeah:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 29, 2012, 04:23:19 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 29, 2012, 04:40:58 PM
Post by: sebek556 on January 29, 2012, 06:55:22 PM
Post by: FarBeyondDriven on January 29, 2012, 07:31:50 PM
I just read some hunting-washington guy's opinions that CrossFit coaches only know CrossFit (I own a CrossFit gym by the way), that Carl Lewis and other Olympic track athletes do isolation lifts, that bicep curls are not an isolation lift, CrossFit will hurt you, and that this thread is about CrossFit... sigh.
For those that are reading these posts... please go find out for yourself what works for you and run with it. There are many paths, but the framework needs Variety, Continuity, Functional Organic Movements, and of course the CrossFit in me says Executed at High Intensity. Make it somewhat uncomfortable so you can make yourself physically & mentally stronger.
Also, anyone in the Spokane area, look me up and I'll do your workout with you, but then you have to do workout with me.
Post by: 400out on January 29, 2012, 07:37:23 PM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 29, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
A good weekend saw me on the road bike pedaling up to Snoqualmie Pass from North Bend one day or the Mt. bike going up some old logging road and speed walking Mt. Si the next. A flat 65 mile ride after work or a couple hours of local hills.
Couldn't not do it. After L5-S1 went pop in several spots at once it's been had to re-light the furnace.
Post by: 400out on January 29, 2012, 08:02:23 PM
I used to be... :rolleyes:I am recovering from the same thing! had surgery end of nov. I hope I get good again :'( To damn young for being in pain every day :bash:
A good weekend saw me on the road bike pedaling up to Snoqualmie Pass from North Bend one day or the Mt. bike going up some old logging road and speed walking Mt. Si the next. A flat 65 mile ride after work or a couple hours of local hills.
Couldn't not do it. After L5-S1 went pop in several spots at once it's been had to re-light the furnace.
Post by: MikeWalking on January 29, 2012, 08:14:14 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 29, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
Cutting Wood & Drinking Beer... sign me up! (LOL).
I just read some hunting-washington guy's opinions that CrossFit coaches only know CrossFit (I own a CrossFit gym by the way), that Carl Lewis and other Olympic track athletes do isolation lifts, that bicep curls are not an isolation lift, CrossFit will hurt you, and that this thread is about CrossFit... sigh.
For those that are reading these posts... please go find out for yourself what works for you and run with it. There are many paths, but the framework needs Variety, Continuity, Functional Organic Movements, and of course the CrossFit in me says Executed at High Intensity. Make it somewhat uncomfortable so you can make yourself physically & mentally stronger.
Also, anyone in the Spokane area, look me up and I'll do your workout with you, but then you have to do workout with me.
I think it would be inaccurate to say CrossFit coaches only know CrossFit but CrossFit professionals are the only ones I have heard say that CrossFit is a complete system (and I have heard some CrossFit coaches admit that it isn't)
"For those that are reading these posts... please go find out for yourself what works for you and run with it. There are many paths, but the framework needs Variety, Continuity, Functional Organic Movements, and of course the CrossFit in me says Executed at High Intensity. Make it somewhat uncomfortable so you can make yourself physically & mentally stronger."
:yeah:
CrossFit or not I hope people understand the massive benefits gained by high intensity exercise.
Post by: 44 Flattop on January 30, 2012, 01:26:09 PM
CrossFit or not I hope people understand the massive benefits gained by high intensity exercise.Well.......yes. HIT does allow for massive benefits but not true strength potential. I realize that few are looking for the most strength gains genetically allowed however, as I personally have been driven toward for the past 3 decades of lifting. When I was younger, mostly in my 30's I enjoyed the occasional cycle of HIT but if I, as a true blue iron head can be burned out from HIT, the neophyte wannabe lifter who dreams of strength gains but has a hard time following through is going to give up the gym long before he is able to be hooked by the exercise bug.
For beginners I always like to start them with 2X weekly working at something very simple like the 5 basic movements, squat, bench, dead, military and chins. Only once some basic foundational strength is built and the weight lifting hook is firmly set in our young neophyte should he/she be allowed or encouraged to start the mentally and physically brutal work of high intensity training.
44
Post by: AKBowman on January 30, 2012, 02:29:49 PM
:tup: Well said!
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 30, 2012, 03:47:03 PM
Post by: head hunter on January 30, 2012, 04:24:21 PM
Post by: firedog on January 31, 2012, 12:44:29 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 31, 2012, 08:48:04 PM
Post by: wraithen on January 31, 2012, 09:30:31 PM
Post by: MikeWalking on January 31, 2012, 10:41:42 PM
Went to the surgeon today and he told me that I'm just a loose jointed person. One of the worst he's seen. Told me flat out that my shoulders are way too loose and no surgeon would risk trying to tighten them up because they wouldn't be able to do anything but make it worse. Any good workouts for a shoulder that basically dislocates with 20 lbs of weight at the wrist?
Swimming.
Post by: wraithen on February 01, 2012, 07:59:16 AM
Post by: MikeWalking on February 01, 2012, 09:19:55 AM
I'm on the borderline of having double jointed shoulders, at least it looked that way after one dirt bike wreck :chuckle: I hope yours aren't my future..
Post by: h20hunter on February 01, 2012, 09:47:21 AM
Like anything and everything in this thread....don't over do it.
Post by: firedog on February 01, 2012, 12:13:28 PM
Went to the surgeon today and he told me that I'm just a loose jointed person. One of the worst he's seen. Told me flat out that my shoulders are way too loose and no surgeon would risk trying to tighten them up because they wouldn't be able to do anything but make it worse. Any good workouts for a shoulder that basically dislocates with 20 lbs of weight at the wrist?
Like mentioned above, try and strengthen the rotator and other supporting muscles. I use one of these to isolate my rotator cuff muscles. Helped a lot with shoulder issues I was having. Use very light weight to start, I lift every day and don't use over 15lb dumbells when I do this. Good Luck
http://www.shoulderhorn.com/
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 01, 2012, 12:45:44 PM