Post by: 3boys on July 23, 2008, 09:29:49 PM
Post by: robodad on July 23, 2008, 09:35:15 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 23, 2008, 09:36:12 PM
Post by: 1arrowfromhotstreak on July 23, 2008, 09:41:47 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on July 23, 2008, 10:04:40 PM
i worry that a .308, as versitile as it is,and it really is a tried a proven round, may pack abit of a punchrecoil. With that 7mm-08, ya can watch the bullet smack the target, with that gentle recoil.
Post by: bobcat on July 23, 2008, 10:13:20 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on July 23, 2008, 10:37:41 PM
those kids dont stay small for long
Post by: cohoho on July 23, 2008, 11:42:14 PM
Post by: Gutpile on July 24, 2008, 05:34:51 AM
I think a kid should get a low recoiling rifle to start with and the 7mm-08 would be a great choice. I bought my daughter a .260 only because I thought it'd kick less than a 7mm-08. Thats a great cartridge too but ammo selection is poor.
Frankly I'm a little surprised at the negativity about the 7mm-08 on this thread. It'd be a great choice. Flat, fast, powerfull, with a modest recoil.
Post by: shag on July 24, 2008, 05:55:20 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on July 24, 2008, 08:07:38 AM
Post by: Vek on July 24, 2008, 09:33:14 AM
Some rounds aren't too comfortable to touch off in a sub-6.5lb rifle. My 6.25-lb 30-06 is right at the limit.
Choosing an adequate deer/elk chambering (270/280/260/7-08/7x57/30-06/308) that you can practice with for cheap (narrows down to 308 or 30-06, if you don't handload) is substantially more important than buying a 300WSM/300RUM/300WM/7mmRM/loudenboomers but not being able to afford practice ammo...
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2008, 10:17:11 AM
i wouldnt say a 7'08 is a bad round.. but it cannot shoot 180 or heavier bullets.
These days a guy doesn't have to go with 180 gr or heavier bullets, even for elk. I wouldn't be afraid to hunt elk, moose, or black bear with a 7-08. I'd just load it up with 140 gr Barnes TSX. Lets say you use a 180gr Nosler PT or similar and you can get 70% weight retention; .7 x 180 = 126........at 95% or so retention of the 140gr TSX you're looking at more retention of the 140gr vs. the 180gr. And a 140gr bullet will kick you less than a 180gr, therefore a guy could use lighter bullet if he's wanted less recoil as long as he uses some of the newer bullets that retain their weight.
Post by: MountainWalk on July 24, 2008, 10:24:33 AM
true, he doesnt have to shoot 180's. but the 308 bore is infinitly more adaptable-125's,150's,165's,168's,180's and 200's. and im afraid i would take a nosler partition anyday over the barnes. dont think the barnes is a bad bullet.
Post by: cabin308 on July 24, 2008, 10:51:07 AM
IMHO I agree with bobcat, I'd get a 308 Win and start with lower recoil loads like Remington makes or handload if it's an option.
That's a great cartridge but if it were me I'd get either a 243 or a 308. Ammo is just more available and much cheaper. That's about the only real reason, but the 7/08 has no advantage over either the 243 or 308 when it comes to deer. If you think your son may ever use that same rifle for bigger game like elk then go with the 308. The 308 just can't be beat for versatility and the availability of a good variety of low priced ammo.I shot my first deer at 12y.o. with my Dad's handloaded 150gr 308 at 30-30 velocity and a recoil pad. Still shoot 308 to this day with full house loads, even got my first elk with it. Plus you can find the ammo at almost every small town gun shop. That's a big factor for me is availability to find the load should you forget to pack it. :(
It is a personal preference for the caliber but think about adding a good recoil pad, helps big time.
:twocents: Sims makes a great one, I use it on a very lite weight 300WSM. It gives very little felt recoil for the amount of BOOM that thing makes. No I'm not a Sims dealer, just think they make a great product. :tup:
Post by: Intruder on July 24, 2008, 10:55:58 AM
Post by: GEARHEAD on July 24, 2008, 10:58:31 AM
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2008, 11:40:30 AM
All that said, I do think that a .308 would also be a great cartridge in a youth gun. You couldn't go wrong with a .308 or 7-08 IMO.......or .260 for that matter. Of course the 7-08 and 260 would be better suited to someone that reloads since ammo availability is not anywhere near as good as what you can get in a .308.
I really want to get a .260 or 7-08 for myself when I want to go light and for the occasion when my wife wants to go deer or elk hunting. .308 based cartridges really seem to fit the bill for an ultr light rifle.
Post by: MountainWalk on July 24, 2008, 12:00:59 PM
it maybe too much kick. i dont know... my first real deer rifle was a 30-06. i never seemed to notice the kick.. my g/f is a little kick shy, but she shoots the rem 125's all day long.
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2008, 12:07:40 PM
Post by: jdb on July 24, 2008, 05:02:59 PM
i will prolly git kicked in the ribs for this, but i dont see a pressing need for buying a youth style rifle. thats a helluva lot of money for something he will outgrow. them kids dont stay small for long. i wouldnt buy my kids a 200 dollar coat.I normally agree with most of what you have to say but will have to part company here. I think it impairitive that a kids first shooting experience's be positive, you give a kid a gun that t kicks and they'll develope a flinch GARUNTEED! they flinch and they'll miss or worse wound. You want your kids first hunting memory to be shooting some poor deer in the guts and haveing to chase it all overt hell before finishing it? I think not I started both my boys at 10 with a h&r ultra lite youth .243 they both have killed deer with it the youngest shout a 4 point buck last fall at a ranger 125 yards. bullet placement? right throught the heart!
it maybe too much kick. i dont know... my first real deer rifle was a 30-06. i never seemed to notice the kick.. my g/f is a little kick shy, but she shoots the rem 125's all day long.
Post by: shag on July 24, 2008, 06:08:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 24, 2008, 07:06:19 PM
Quote
Remington Managed-Recoil Cartridges
By Chuck Hawks
Illustration courtesy of Remington Arms Co., Inc.
In 2004 Remington announced a new line of centerfire rifle cartridges. They called these "Managed-Recoil," and trademarked the name. Managed-Recoil cartridges come in green boxes that closely resemble Remington's famous Express loads, but these loads are special.
Managed-Recoil is desirable because it allows a quicker recovery of the sight picture, better shot placement, and less anticipation of recoil. Lower recoil is precisely the reason that cartridges along the lines of the 6.5x55 and 7x57 have earned such a deadly reputation in game fields all around the world. It also allows recoil sensitive shooters, which includes nearly all beginning hunters as well as many women and youth, to use (or borrow) existing "all-around" rifles, often without the necessity for scope adjustment. And it allows more practice shooting at the range without discomfort. As the Remington literature points out, "Practice Makes Perfect."
Managed-Recoil cartridges were introduced in calibers .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. In 2005 the .308 Winchester and .300 Winchester Magnum were added to the Managed Recoil loading list. Managed-Recoil cartridges are designed to reduce the actual recoil energy of these cartridges by about 50%.
This is achieved in two ways: 1) a lighter bullet, and 2) a lighter powder charge for reduced velocity. Most reasonably experienced reloaders have realized that they could reduce the recoil of any cartridge by doing the same thing, and I have written articles including reduced recoil cartridges for Guns and Shooting Online.
However, reduced recoil reloads can have problems such as erratic ignition and degraded accuracy if the normal powder charge is reduced the too much. (I assure you that I have been there and done that.) There is also the factor of reduced bullet expansion to consider when velocity is reduced, which degrades terminal performance. It is important to select a bullet designed for the velocity at which it will be launched. Reduced recoil reloads are a viable alternative for any experienced reloader, but the development of safe, accurate and reliable reduced recoil loads is not as simple and straightforward as it might seem.
As a major arms and ammunition maker, Remington has the capability to develop special bullets and select powders (including non-canister powders) specifically for reduced recoil cartridges, and they have done just that. The Managed-Recoil bullets are lighter than the "standard" weight bullets normally used in these cartridges, and they are loaded to lower velocity.
All of the new Managed-Recoil bullets are of Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (PSP) design. Here are their ballistic coefficients: .270/115 = .295, 7mm/140 = .388, .30/125 = .267, .300/150 = .314.
The Remington technicians also took other factors into account. They wanted the Managed-Recoil loads to shoot flat enough and retain enough killing power to be effective out to at least 200 yards. The goal for the new bullets was 2x expansion at 200 yards and 75% weight retention at 50 yards.
These goals were achieved. The Managed-Recoil loads all retain at least 1100 ft. lbs. of energy at 200 yards, and the new bullets expand beautifully at that energy level.
Another goal was for the Managed-Recoil loads to shoot to essentially the same point of impact at 100 yards as full velocity Express loads. In Remington tests the new loads achieved a nearly identical point of impact to that of full velocity loads.
As experienced shooters know, the individual rifle has a big effect on the point of impact of different loads, and the same load may shoot to wildly different places from two different rifles. Never the less, Remington claims that a rifle zeroed for full velocity loads need not be adjusted to hunt with Reduced-Recoil loads. My advice, without exception, is to check the point of impact at the rifle range before venturing into the field with any new load.
Managed-Recoil cartridges are not grizzly bear loads; they were designed specifically for hunting light framed (CXP2) game. As Remington puts it, these are loads for deer size game out to 200 yards. That is not a severe limitation for most hunters. Deer size (CXP2) animals are by far the most commonly hunted big game all over the world, and far more game is killed within 200 yards (or 200 meters, if you prefer) than beyond. If elk and moose are on your agenda, stick with standard power cartridges.
Here is a summary of the published ballistics of the .270 Win., 7mm Rem. Mag., .308 Win., .30-06, and .300 Win. Mag. Managed-Recoil cartridges (velocity in feet per second and energy in foot pounds):
.270/115 - MV 2710, V @ 200 yds 2133; ME 1875, E @ 200 yds 1161.
7mm Mag/140 - MV 2710, V @ 200 yds 2265; ME 2283, E @ 200 yds 1595.
.308/125 - MV 2660, V @ 200 yds 2034; ME 1964, E @ 200 yds 1148.
.30-06/125 - MV 2660, V @ 200 yds 2034; ME 1964, E @ 200 yds 1148.
.300 Mag/150 - 2650, V @ 200 yds 2113; ME 2339, E @ 200 yds 1486.
Here are the trajectories for the Managed-Recoil loads, based on a 150 yard zero with a scoped rifle:
.270/115 - +1" @ 100 yds, 0 @ 150 yds, -2.7" @ 200 yds, -7.4" @ 250 yds.
7mm Mag/140 - +1" @ 100 yds, 0 @ 150 yds, -2.5" @ 200 yds, -6.7" @ 250 yds.
.308/125 - +1.1" @ 100 yds, 0 @ 150 yds, -3" @ 200 yds, -8" @ 250 yds.
.30-06/125 - +1.1" @ 100 yds, 0 @ 150 yds, -3" @ 200 yds, -8" @ 250 yds.
.300 Mag/150 - +1.0" @ 100 yds, 0 @ 150 yds, -2.7" @ 200 yds, -7.4" @ 250 yds.
One could actually stretch the trajectory of a scoped rifle shooting any of these loads considerably by zeroing to take advantage of their maximum point blank range (+/- 3"). Zero the .308 or .30-06 loads to hit 2.8" high at 100 yards and the maximum point blank range (MPBR) is 247 yards. Zero a .270 to hit 2.8" high at 100 yards with the Managed-Recoil load and the MPBR is 255 yards. Zero the .300 Mag. load to hit 2.8" high at 100 yards and the MPBR becomes 252 yards.
Remember, though, that the bullets are designed for best expansion at ranges within 200 yards. Given the relatively low sectional density (SD) and moderate downrange velocity of the .270 and .30 caliber bullets it may not be practical to take full advantage of their MPBR.
On the other hand, the sleeker and longer 7mm bullet (SD .248) would seem to have more potential. If it were zeroed at 225 yards, it would hit 2.8" high at 100 yards, 3" high at 125 yards, and fall 3" below the line of sight at 264 yards. This would significantly extend the MPBR of the cartridge. At 300 yards that bullet would still be traveling 2067 fps, and most conventional 139-140 grain 7mm bullets will expand satisfactorily at that terminal velocity. Note that 2067 fps is faster than the .308 and .30-06 Managad-Recoil bullets are traveling at 200 yards, and very close to the 200 yard velocity of the .300 Mag bullet. Food for thought.
Remington has published a graph showing the dramatic recoil reduction achieved by the Managed-Recoil cartridges. Judging by the Remington recoil graph the 115 grain bullet in the Managed-Recoil .270 Winchester load delivers about 9.5 ft. lbs. of recoil energy, compared to about 21 ft. lbs. of recoil from the standard 130 grain Express Load. The 140 grain Managed-Recoil load in 7mm Remington Magnum generates about 17 ft. lbs. of recoil energy, compared to 32.5 ft. lbs. for the standard 150 grain load. And the 125 grain Managed-Recoil load in .30-06 kicks the shooter with barely over 10 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy, instead of the 22.5 ft. lb. kick of the standard 150 grain factory load.
The weight of the test rifle was not stated, but the amount of recoil reduction is clear from the above figures. For comparison, Remington points out that the recoil of their Managed-Recoil .270, .308, and .30-06 loads is actually less than the recoil of their .243 Winchester 100 grain PSP Core-Lokt factory load.
One aspect of the Managed-Recoil loads that I have not heard mentioned elsewhere is that they are perfect for use in today's popular ultra-light rifles. Reducing rifle weight dramatically increases recoil. Using Managed-Recoil cartridges in such rifles would go a long way toward taming the ultra-light beasts.
The nice folks at Remington were kind enough to send me, upon request, a box of their Managed-Recoil 7mm Remington Magnum cartridges. These were test fired in a Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe rifle by G&S Online Technical Assistants Jim Fleck, Bob Fleck, and myself.
The accuracy of the Managed-Recoil ammunition was comparable to the reference factory load (Winchester Supreme with 140 grain Ballistic Silvertip bullet, MV 3100 fps) and full power handload (140 grain Hornady Interlock SP bullet at a MV of 3100 fps) with which it was compared. I would have no qualms about going deer hunting with this ammunition.
All of us agreed that the recoil and muzzle blast of the Managed-Recoil load was attenuated by a worthwhile amount. Bob Fleck was especially impressed by the difference, as he has had the least experience with this particular rifle and a full power 7mm Magnum tends to get one's attention.
My only quibble is with the assertion that the Managed Recoil loads will shoot to the same point of aim at 100 yards as full power ammunition. This may be true in some cases, but all rifles are individuals and may respond differently to different loads.
In our test rifle, at 100 yards the Managed-Recoil ammunition hit about 4.5" lower, but directly beneath, the handloaded ammunition for which the test rifle is actually zeroed. The 140 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertip factory loaded ammunition hit 3" higher and 2" to the right of the handload, or about 7.5" above and 2" to the right of the Managed-Recoil load. All of these loads delivered good groups from the test rifle, they just have different points of impact.
This is consistent with my personal experience with a large number of hunting rifles over the last 40 years, which has taught me that it is always a pious idea to carefully check the point of impact of any new load at the range. Sadly, in most cases it is necessary to re-zero the rifle when changing loads, even when the bullet weight remains the same.
For most hunting purposes, the use of Managed-Recoil cartridges has real advantages. First and foremost, everyone shoots better with loads that kick less. And bullet placement, not cartridge power, is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills. Although many will not admit it, most hunters find cartridges on the order of the .270, 7mm Magnum, .308, and .30-06 somewhat intimidating to shoot. And very few shooters are really comfortable shooting a .300 Magnum.
The use of Managed-Recoil cartridges in these calibers when deer size game is the quarry will undoubtedly result in more quick kills and fewer wounded animals. Save the full power loads for when you really need them and you will very likely become a better shot and a deadlier hunter.
Post by: Curly on July 24, 2008, 08:01:26 PM
Why not buy a kid an "adult" rifle like a 270 or 30/06, or even a 308, and if you don't handload your own ammo, then used Remington's "reduced recoil" loads?
As long as the kid is big enough for the rifle to fit him/her well enough and the rifle is not too heavy for them to carry all day. Typically your short action cartridges based on the 308 are going to weigh a little less than the 30-06 based cartridges; or at least they would be a little shorter and better balanced than the long action rifle. Thats why I think the perfect kid rifle is one in 260, 7-08 or 308. And you could still use the reduced recoil loads.........at least in the 308, I'm not sure they offer them in the other cartridges.
Post by: ICEMAN on July 24, 2008, 08:03:17 PM
Post by: shag on July 24, 2008, 08:16:41 PM
I seen or killed with the 270,7mm mag, 30-06, 300wsm, 300wm,. The 7-08 has more dead intrack shots than any I've hunted with. Great blood trails and outa 15 deer never once recovered a bullet. It is one very effective round. Why shoot a managed recoil round when the 7-08 is right on with the 270 and -06 out to 400yds. And already has less recoil. Prolly a 3 inch difference out to 400 yds. Dead even in trajectory with the -06 out to 500yds. Who's even shooting that far? Not many. Yea Yea yea. 180 gr vs 140 gr. 140 tops the 180 when the 180 is in reduced loads. A 7-08 with a 120 TSX can't be beat by the 270 with 130's. A once again has less recoil. Better yet take a 260 with a 130 gr swift Scroccio at 3000fps and a higher B.C. and the 270 will be chasin it. Yet again full strengh and less recoil than even the 7-08. Had a 260 that placed both 125 and 140 partitions at 3" high at 100yds. Nice when a gun dose that . 140's for elk or deer and 125's for deer The 260 and the 7-08 aren't just for women and children. But with lighter weight packages and user friendly recoil they really shine when one dislikes recoil. Don't knock it till you try it.
Post by: runningboard on July 24, 2008, 08:31:54 PM
Quote
Why not buy a kid an "adult" rifle like a 270 or 30/06, or even a 308, and if you don't handload your own ammo, then used Remington's "reduced recoil" loads?Why not buy a youth model and when he/she grows up buy a stock for it that fits an adult? some come with both.
My wife has a youth model REM 700 that I replaced the barrel with a factory take-off 7-08 so I could get a 24" bbl with the youth length stock, it already has the limbsaver recoil pad from the factory, new mark-X trigger tuned to 3 lbs, 2x7 leupold, fits her perfect and she won't be growing any time soon, she loves it. If I wanted to use it or fit to one of my kids who are bigger than their mom I could just get a stock from a number of sources. Did own a couple of different youth model 7's before we settled on this one and got our money back on 'em 'cause the demand is there if you're in the market to trade/sell.
Post by: bobcat on July 24, 2008, 09:26:05 PM
Post by: Curly on July 25, 2008, 09:02:41 AM
Why shoot a managed recoil round when the 7-08 is right on with the 270 and -06 out to 400yds. And already has less recoil. Prolly a 3 inch difference out to 400 yds. Dead even in trajectory with the -06 out to 500yds. Who's even shooting that far? Not many. Yea Yea yea. 180 gr vs 140 gr. 140 tops the 180 when the 180 is in reduced loads. A 7-08 with a 120 TSX can't be beat by the 270 with 130's. A once again has less recoil. Better yet take a 260 with a 130 gr swift Scroccio at 3000fps and a higher B.C. and the 270 will be chasin it. Yet again full strengh and less recoil than even the 7-08. Had a 260 that placed both 125 and 140 partitions at 3" high at 100yds. Nice when a gun dose that . 140's for elk or deer and 125's for deer The 260 and the 7-08 aren't just for women and children. But with lighter weight packages and user friendly recoil they really shine when one dislikes recoil. Don't knock it till you try it.
Well said. :yeah: That is what I was trying to get at.
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 04:55:52 PM
I don't know, but I'm real partial to the -08. Nothing flashy or fancy about the cartridge. It just flat out dose a great job of killing. I've got over 20 yrs of killing with .30 cals of all sorts including the 30-30 and wsm's. So far there isn't anything that they do better as far as putting meat in the freezer than the -08. My youngest son will be hunting next year and I'll buy him a 7-08. I also plan on a Kimber Montana in 7-08 for me... My oldest son already has a Rem mtn rifle in 7-08. Next year I'll have 3!!!! When the boys are outa the house I'll hate recoil even more than I do now and I'll get another 260 Rem!!! I'm waiting as I don't want me or the boys trying to shoot a 260 round in a 7-08 or visa versa. Exactly why the 308 isn't in the stable. But in all honestly why own a 308 when you got a 7-08!!! Federal now offer's the 140 TSX, Accubond, Partition in factory ammo. Hope they notice what handloaders are doing with the 120 TSX!!! But if they do that than why would anyone own a 270 when they could do the same with the -08.
Here's an Elk load for anyone that doubts the 7-08.. How about a 150 gr Nosler E-Tip at 2700fps outa the -08!!! Like I said with 120's at 3000fps and 150's at 2700fps plus I really have no need for either a 270 or a 308. Sorry bout the rant :)
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2008, 06:12:52 PM
Quote
i will prolly git kicked in the ribs for this, but i dont see a pressing need for buying a youth style rifle. thats a helluva lot of money for something he will outgrow. them kids dont stay small for long. i wouldnt buy my kids a 200 dollar coat.
You do realize the 7mm-08 can be had in a full sized rifle, don't you?
Post by: MountainWalk on July 25, 2008, 06:13:56 PM
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2008, 06:22:39 PM
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 06:24:36 PM
Might just get the nod over the Kimber? The Riflemans Rifle!! 7-08 easy choice!
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=102&cat=001C
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 06:28:46 PM
yes, but why would you want one?
God it would suck packing this heavy weight around the hills all day. :rolleyes:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/84m/84m_montana/
Post by: MountainWalk on July 25, 2008, 06:29:29 PM
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 06:46:12 PM
He'll tell ya why.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm254%2FMarshaShagool%2FChuck%2F4x4.jpg&hash=e4d89f7b7b4cb4a5d8e9312b387345ba1e5f8d65)(http://)
257yd shot 140 Partition. One shot sent this Balcktail end over end for 300yds!!
But I guess the -08 can't kill big bodied bucks.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm254%2FMarshaShagool%2FChuck%2Ffatty.jpg&hash=844966df7bb2fbf82ea0056f51d0113f75150a86)(http://)
A week later I used the kids gun. One shot dumped a decent 3x3 at 319yds. But hell that's a chip shot.
Post by: MountainWalk on July 25, 2008, 06:47:49 PM
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 06:49:54 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on July 25, 2008, 06:53:12 PM
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 06:59:04 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on July 25, 2008, 07:01:36 PM
Post by: shag on July 25, 2008, 07:09:03 PM
The -08 is my god of thunder! Wonder why I bought a 300wsm? :bdid:
I will keep the Fat Boy for my Imaginary trip to AK for Grizz. But what was I thinking/ :dunno:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 26, 2008, 02:27:39 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on July 26, 2008, 02:34:26 AM
Post by: GEARHEAD on July 26, 2008, 10:12:51 AM
Post by: PA BEN on July 26, 2008, 05:39:50 PM
7mm-08
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F1013070718.jpg&hash=fe3c8e0cc66bf5b53b5f01d0d089bda267d6c350)
243 8 yr old
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2F100_1538.jpg&hash=7b7bad92b35e59d8edb42977a0e8c03fa5f7d731)
243 10 yr old
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FImg_0147.jpg&hash=aa35bf5c9fcf535b057b797a2f1dd24e0e94e3ac)
243 230 yd shot 15 yr old
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT1128.jpg&hash=c8e5271a25274e614880a6d2aea5c0a05b45a7a8)
7mm-08 13 yr old
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT1029.jpg&hash=43856d511386cfdc479cfd50618ac57816fedf92)
7mm-08 head shot 17 yr old
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT1050.jpg&hash=168a9ebcfc74df0220b2d450481817de3020f255)
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 26, 2008, 09:59:28 PM
Post by: Tony 270WSM on July 26, 2008, 10:11:39 PM
Post by: FOsteology on July 26, 2008, 11:05:17 PM