Post by: Swatson on February 13, 2012, 06:31:39 AM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 13, 2012, 06:41:11 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 13, 2012, 06:42:09 AM
Post by: Swatson on February 13, 2012, 06:52:31 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 13, 2012, 07:26:33 AM
Post by: dreamunelk on February 13, 2012, 07:28:22 AM
So many post about the archery season being changed but I bet there's not many letters being sent. Everyone bitches and nobody acts. I'm not saying everyone but most of us wont send letters.
:yeah:
Post by: canyelk48 on February 13, 2012, 08:17:42 AM
Post by: NoBark on February 13, 2012, 08:37:29 AM
Having said that, I don't like it and would love to have it back on the 8th every year, or later. And, if you feel that way, write!
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 13, 2012, 08:58:24 AM
the only real difference is their seasons ARE LONGER, if they reduced the "Antlerless' permits and extended the "general" season....
Post by: Swatson on February 13, 2012, 09:15:25 AM
When I look at other states, their seasons begin either in late August and Sept 1st, do you think that nobody hunts the first couple weeks of season ?
the only real difference is their seasons ARE LONGER, if they reduced the "Antlerless' permits and extended the "general" season....
The other states also go longer into the rut! Thats the problem here, they're ending our season right when the rut gets going! I get how they're trying to work this holiday thing in but its screwing up the archery season bad!
Post by: Swatson on February 13, 2012, 09:16:13 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 13, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Post by: Fullabull on February 13, 2012, 09:21:19 AM
Post by: lokidog on February 13, 2012, 09:23:54 AM
Mr. Ware and Fish and Wildlife Commission, 2-13-12
In the most recent proposal for changes to the Washington early archery elk season, it appears that the start of the season is earlier and earlier each year. I do understand floating dates for shorter seasons in order to maximize weekend hunting opportunities. But, we do not need to have a floating start date for this season any more than we need a floating start date for turkey season.
If the goal of the Department is to further reduce the harvest success of archers, then they will undoubtedly get their way. Our season has already been shortened substantially in the last decade or so. It is puzzling to me to see this as there seems to be little reason for it from a biological/scientific perspective, while there seems to be reasons to go back to the pre-2009 season dates.
Many years, the risk of fire causes private timber companies and the State DNR to close access to their properties. The majority of hunters , especially Western Washington ones, follow their dreams of pursuing and harvesting a nice bull, or even any elk, on these properties. By moving the beginning of the archery season to a later date, the risk of fires and other land closures is greatly reduced. For those hunters that choose a more limited access location to pursue their dreams, a later start to the season will help them to responsibly ensure that the animal they might harvest returns to their home in the best condition possible as they may not have as hot of temperatures to deal with while taking care of their precious meat.
Please take this into consideration when finalizing the future early archery elk season dates.
Thank you for your time,
Ed Fisher
Decatur Island, WA
Post by: Houndhunter on February 13, 2012, 10:02:57 AM
Post by: Fullabull on February 13, 2012, 10:45:25 AM
Hello,
I moved here to WA eight years ago. I have archery hunted for elk all but one year and cannot understand why the commission keeps moving the season back for archery as well as the removal of one day from the length of the season during that time. WA is the only western state that does not allow the archery season to go until later into September when archery hunters actually might have a chance to hunt during some prime rutting time. Archery hunters have the most difficult hunt (even if it's during the rut) then either MF or ML as their weapons can reach out well beyond that of a bow.
The MF hunters are getting more days and now have permit hunts during the prime late September rut period.
ML hunters are now getting their season moved further back INTO the prime rutting period of early October.
There is absolutely no reason why the Archery season could not start on the 8th or 10th even and run until the 21st or 23rd (preferably). It would not increase the harvest of elk anywhere near what the changes to the ML and MF seasons will !!!
These changes obviously have nothing to do with the amount of elk harvested.
Can you please explain what the reasons are for moving the archery seasons?
Can you explain the reasons why we are the only state that does not allow archery season to go later into September (like all the other states)?
Please show me the data to support your answers.
Thanks and best regards,
Fred Talbot
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 10:49:20 AM
Quote
ML hunters are now getting their season moved further back INTO the prime rutting period of early October.
Not true.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 13, 2012, 10:52:28 AM
Muzzy is also rotating... 2012 is Oct 6-12, 2013 is Oct 5-11 and 2013 is Oct 4-10th
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 10:55:21 AM
Post by: sakoshooter on February 13, 2012, 11:01:15 AM
Pretty simple ... they do not want us killing the bigger bulls .... they want your money and then maker harder to harvst anything ...basically buy your sheet ,take your money and sit on the porch and drink coffee !!! all believe me all the sheet I have been putting up with lately I am about ready to give it up in Washington... They are maggots !!! seriously ...not joking ....100% speakin the truth :o
Pretty much covers my feelings.
Post by: Fullabull on February 13, 2012, 11:05:47 AM
Post by: Fullabull on February 13, 2012, 11:06:40 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 11:09:52 AM
Bobcat, my appoligies ML did get moved forward but is still in prime rut time. Over all there is no reason for what they are doing to the archery season...
I wouldn't say it's prime, at least I have not had any luck finding rutting elk during muzzleloader season. But admittedly, I don't try that hard.
There actually is a reason for them having the archery elk season early, before the rut. It's just like Bowhunter45 said, it's to keep archery hunters from killing too many of the mature bulls. I'm not saying I like it, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but that is the reason for it. Maybe if they did away with the general season and went to permit only elk hunting, they could allow archery hunting during the rut. :dunno:
Post by: lokidog on February 13, 2012, 11:19:00 AM
It's actually due to our artificial placement of a holiday. It is actually earlier in the month as the holiday falls earlier in the month. :dunno:
They don't move the turkey opener around based on a holiday, they leave it in place, theoretically, because it fits with the biology/management of turkey hunting. Why should this season bounce around? Other, somewhat shorter, seasons bounce a bit to open on a weekend and end on a weekend to maximize hunter-in-the-woods time. If this is the goal, then set a date, say the 7th, and start it on the first saturday after or including the seventh, or something like that. Personally, I like it when it does not open on a weekend as I can get the time off mid week and I think it keeps some hunters out of the woods so there is less competition. :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 11:24:41 AM
Quote
Personally, I like it when it does not open on a weekend as I can get the time off mid week and I think it keeps some hunters out of the woods so there is less competition. :chuckle:
I agree with that! I wish they would change all seasons to open on a Wednesday. (Can you imagine the complaints they'd get?)
I actually have often heard the complaint that early archery elk season does not open on a Saturday. No matter what they do, they can't please everybody.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 13, 2012, 11:25:48 AM
Also, Elk dont look at calendars, they dont care whether it is the 5th. 6th, 7th, etc.. they only care about photoperiod, weather, estrous cycle, etc...
anybody else notice this is a "leap year", so we get an extra day in the calendar year, so the 2 days it has been "moved forward" is actually only 1...
Post by: popeshawnpaul on February 13, 2012, 12:29:41 PM
The reality is, until allocation is determined based on these new dates we might be out of luck. Having some data to show the WDFW that these changes had drastic or no effect on the archery season will help. In the meantime, we will keep pushing them to make the change.
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 12:35:57 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 13, 2012, 12:45:14 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 13, 2012, 12:52:22 PM
This subject just adds more wood to the fire to BOYCOT buying fishing and huntin licenses and hit the state in the pocket book! :tup:
Please do! I'll be the only hunter in the woods! :IBCOOL:
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 13, 2012, 12:59:06 PM
Post by: flinger on February 13, 2012, 12:59:42 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 13, 2012, 02:33:51 PM
Post by: GEARHEAD on February 13, 2012, 03:04:21 PM
lets not forget, its these same folks, who were never fired btw who attempted to close a forest by placing lynx hair from a captive wdfw lynx that was available, on a tree, and falsified data on the murlet. i never heard the names of those responsible for the lynx hair episod, but would sure like to find out to see how high up they are now.
Post by: dylanb on February 13, 2012, 04:24:09 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 13, 2012, 04:38:14 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 13, 2012, 04:39:17 PM
man I wish i could turn back time to early in my bowhunting career EARLY Archery Deer Sept.1 -30 Elk Sept.15 - 30 :drool: :drool: :drool:I been hunting Archery since 1987, closest to that for me was Deer, Sept 15-October 15, Elk, October 1-15th, either sex, no antler restrictions.
Post by: huntndad on February 13, 2012, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on February 13, 2012, 06:12:43 PM
Post by: sled on February 13, 2012, 06:20:54 PM
I do agree the dates suck. Hell i dont think there has been more than a dusting of snow in rifle season for the last three years.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 13, 2012, 06:23:12 PM
Post by: huntndad on February 13, 2012, 07:34:13 PM
Sled, I agree that we all have the choice to hunt whatever weapon we want. Obvioously, we're all going to be a little biased about our preferred weapon. Every year I consider changing things up and switching weapons, but I just love being able to hunt right around my house during the early season. If they ever changed which units I could hunt, I'd definitely switch.
Post by: MAVsled on February 13, 2012, 09:18:17 PM
Today, I submitted my AZ archery bull application. You get 5 hunt choices but the first two choices listed are your best chance of draw success. At least now you can submit online, but you need to have the $151* hunting license to apply. That's the *non-resident rate. Now if you get drawn, it's another $595* for the elk tag in addition to the hunt license. And the non-resident tag availability is capped off at 10% of the permit tag allotment. So in an area with 25 archery tags, in prime rut from mid Sept to Sept 27th for 2012, only 2.5-3 permits can be drawn by non-residents. But the quality of 320-370+ class bulls, numbers and success rates are very high due to permit hunting only in the prime game units.
but if you don't draw an elk permit, you don't hunt.
Although there are a few public OTC elk hunts open to all with long 3-4 month seasons, these are in less than prime elk habitat and lessor elk populated units and generally not worth that much ($714 total for non resident). more of a control elk hunt to keep elk from establishing herd populations in these OTC areas. Most residents don't bother with these hunts either.
However you can buy the indian reservation permits issued by the tribal authorities, but that can range upwards from $7000 to $10,000 for a tag and only so many tags are sold; first come, first buy. There the tribes hunt on their reservations and guide on them too.
my 4th year of applying DIY-public land AZ; 4 bonus points, 4 years of upfront, nonrefundable hunting license & application fees....and still waiting to draw!
Maybe for 2012, if my non-resident status can get by my odds of 2-3%, now with points about a 5% chance of drawing my #1 or #2 choice!!
gotta hope.
Post by: canyelk48 on February 14, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
Thank you for taking the time to email your comments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission. Each commissioner will receive a copy.
Opinions and comments such as yours provide the Commission with valuable insight into fish and wildlife issues of concern to communities throughout our state. The Commission relies on public testimony, email, and correspondence to help determine what is working well and what requires more concentrated efforts.
Thank you for your interest in the conservation and management of the state’s precious fish and wildlife resources.
Sincerely,
Erin Gariépy, Administrative Assistant
Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
Mail: 600 Capitol Way N, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
Phone: (360) 902-2267 ; Fax : (360) 902-2448
Email: commission@wdfw.wa.gov
From: canyelk48@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:58 AM
To: Ware, David A (DFW); Nelson, Jerry P (DFW); Commission (DFW)
Subject: Elk Archery Seasons for 2012 thru 2014
I am writing to voice my concerns over the proposed archery elk hunting seasons (2012 Sept 4th-16th; 2013 Sept 3rd-15th; and 2014 Sept 2nd-14th). As an archery hunter on the Eastside, I would like to see the seasons start on the 8th of September EVERY YEAR. The earlier the season starts in September, the hotter and dryer the weather is, resulting in possible forest fires, closures due to forest fires, and possible loss/wastage of game meat due to the warm weather and the time it takes to pack a harvested elk out of the woods and get it to a game processer. The earlier starting dates also moves the season further away from the rut (perhaps this is by intent), which makes it even more difficult to harvest a bull elk if drawn for a tag.
Almost every archery hunter I've spoken to has these same concerns, so please reconsider the proposed start dates and return the archery seasons to start on the 8th of September every year.
Post by: Wildsau on February 14, 2012, 10:46:07 AM
In this thread, I read a lot about how we Archery Hunters - me being a novice - are not getting as much of the Elk Rut as the ML and MR Hunters are. In my search to understand my prey more, I found a site, http://www.trmichels.com/ElkActivityGraphs.htm and in there I read that the rut is well into the Archery Hunting Dates. At this site, charts were offered and explainations were given to help understand the rut, the times and why the bugeling occures, etc.
Now, unless the author of this site, "T. R. Michels", is out there without a bow, and doesn't even know how to spell elk, what he is saying makes a lot of sense and, rather than getting 'shafted' on the hunt, we are getting the best time for the hunt.
In order to ensure that I don't join those out there without a bow, I would like someone, on this thread, to explain to me why the information on the furnished site is wrong, if it is. I am not interested in any ranting and raving about this, that, or something else, I am one who needs to know the facts to understand the rating ant raving. Once I have all the, accurate, information, I will digest it and, may, if I find it is warrented, join those doing the ranting and raving.
If there is a problem (only determinable after gathering all of the facts and digesting them), there are only two ways one can proceed; 1) One can rant and rave, without providing a solution, and be a part of the problem; or 2) One can identify the problem and a, viable, solution, and present it to those who make the decisions. I have always believed you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I, for one, would rather be part of the solution.
Just my :twocents: woth.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 14, 2012, 10:46:34 AM
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 10:59:21 AM
I have been doing a lot of reading, in the many, many threads in this site; most especially subjects dealing with Archery Hunting of Bear, Deer, and Elk. I have been picking up a lot of information from all of you more experienced hunters out there and I thank you ALL very much. As I become more learned and experienced, I, too, may feel knowledgable enough to offer my :twocents: worth. For now, I will just continue to read.
In this thread, I read a lot about how we Archery Hunters - me being a novice - are not getting as much of the Elk Rut as the ML and MR Hunters are. In my search to understand my prey more, I found a site, http://www.trmichels.com/ElkActivityGraphs.htm and in there I read that the rut is well into the Archery Hunting Dates. At this site, charts were offered and explainations were given to help understand the rut, the times and why the bugeling occures, etc.
Now, unless the author of this site, "T. R. Michels", is out there without a bow, and doesn't even know how to spell elk, what he is saying makes a lot of sense and, rather than getting 'shafted' on the hunt, we are getting the best time for the hunt.
In order to ensure that I don't join those out there without a bow, I would like someone, on this thread, to explain to me why the information on the furnished site is wrong, if it is. I am not interested in any ranting and raving about this, that, or something else, I am one who needs to know the facts to understand the rating ant raving. Once I have all the, accurate, information, I will digest it and, may, if I find it is warrented, join those doing the ranting and raving.
If there is a problem (only determinable after gathering all of the facts and digesting them), there are only two ways one can proceed; 1) One can rant and rave, without providing a solution, and be a part of the problem; or 2) One can identify the problem and a, viable, solution, and present it to those who make the decisions. I have always believed you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. I, for one, would rather be part of the solution.
Just my :twocents: woth.
Good on you for trying to learn as much as you can! You will usually find in most cases the ruting season to begin the first of September to the first part of October, generally speaking when either talking to people or reading books. In Washington St I've bugled in Bulls as early as late August and as late as mid October. However, generally, you will find that the rut doesn't really kick into gear until mid Sept and beyond. That being said, I've had elk bugling off the hook on opening day and I've had years where I could hardly find an elk to talk by the last day of the season. Every year is different but the later the season starts the better your chances are getting to hunt the rut. Thats why it is so concerning to all of us bowhunters, they are essentially taking these valuable days away from us where the elk are more likely to be vocal and putting them on the front end of our hunt where we have less odds of getting to effectively hunt elk in the rut. The weather is also a concern as most have mentioned as well. The later in the month the season is the less chance we have of getting the hot weather!
Post by: Wildsau on February 14, 2012, 11:20:32 AM
Perhaps, with the fire danger, the FS might be able to allow Archery Hunters in, on foot, to the closed areas. Another possible solution.
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 11:25:19 AM
From what I've heard, it's actually better to hunt before the rut, if you want to bugle in the mature bulls. Once the rut starts and they get a harem of cows, they are more likely to run from a bugle than to go to it. :twocents:
Post by: JLS on February 14, 2012, 11:37:35 AM
I understand the weather concerns, but, if I am understanding the information I have gathered, thus far, the rut depends a grat deal on the weather. The cows need the food for their young and if the rut starts too early, there may not be enough grass to produce enough milk after the calves are born. If the rut starts too late, the cow may not find enough food to giver her the strength required to gt her and her unborn calf through the winter. I know this is a balance only mother nature can do, but the changes in the opening date won't be able to work as accurate as Mother Nature's clock. From what I am seeing, the trend is good for archers and not as good for ML and MR. I will, however, continue to gather more information. Who know, one day, I may be able to spell elk. ;)
Perhaps, with the fire danger, the FS might be able to allow Archery Hunters in, on foot, to the closed areas. Another possible solution.
Actually, the rut is dependent upon photoperiod. When a specific cow comes into estrous is dependent upon when she calved. The timing of the rut will not vary by any appreciable amount from year to year.
Weather plays a significant role in how observeable the rut behavior is, ie. if it's hot the elk won't typically be out in the middle of the day. I've witnessed cold and snowy days in the middle of September where the elk bugled all day long. I've also seen days where the elk would bugle all night long, but during the day you'd swear there wasn't one in the county.
If it's warm out, and elk are hard to find, you'd best be rolling out of the sack at around 0300 and getting into the woods :twocents:
Post by: PolarBear on February 14, 2012, 11:40:54 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 14, 2012, 11:44:25 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on February 14, 2012, 11:48:59 AM
As far as the rut goes its a mystery to me and tho I learn more each season, I am constantly humbled and baffled and always come away with more questions than answers. The only consistency I have found is that cooler weather leads to increased daytime elk ACTIVITY. It also doesnt help me one bit to have scouted a bunch of bulls only to have the area locked up the day before the opener. With that said.... My observations in the past is that we will often get some type of weather around the middle of september loosening up restrictions, and increasing that daytime elk activity. With a start date of the 8th you are more likely to be able to take advantage of that window.
You will get no argument from me in regards to the new start dates coinciding with at the very least pre rut action in the areas I hunt. My point is that in order to capitalize on it you need some weather to increase elk activity and loosen fire restrictions. This is more likley to happen deeper in September.
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 11:50:38 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 11:54:56 AM
The bottom line here is that the majority of archery elk hunters would rather hunt later in Sept than earlier in Sept for the above mentioned reasons! Yes you have a better chance at hooking up with a bigger bull earlier in the season but I'll take my chances later in the season when the rut really gets into the swing of things! I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that thought process!
That's a totally true statement! And to go along with that, the majority of modern firearm deer hunters would prefer that the deer season be from November 1-15. (I wonder if we can talk the WDFW into changing it to what we would prefer?)
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Post by: PolarBear on February 14, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 12:21:11 PM
Bobcat, you are clearly not an archery hunter and are missing the point! Sure if we are now talking about picking our seasons, lets make it Sept 18th through October 2nd! It wasn't like the 8-21st was just this amazing season where we got to hunt the prime of the rut! The problem is they are making it a less desirable season than what we had. Thats it! get it?
Not sure why it's so clear that I'm not an archery hunter? I may hunt elk with a bow this year, or I may not. I'll let you know in a couple months what I decide to do. The archery tag gives you the best seasons and units to hunt. I just think it's funny that so many want to complain about the timing of it. As someone else pointed out, in a couple years it will start on the 8th again.
I'm no expert on the elk rut because I haven't hunted elk in the rut very often. But I do know many experts prefer to hunt before the bulls get their harems together. Have you not heard that theory? Apparently the bulls are much more likely to respond, and to come in to a call, earlier in September than they are later. So the funny thing is, if they were to start the season later, they'd get complaints that the season isn't early enough.
This reminds me of a phrase that my wife always says to my kids- "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit!" And that's the way I feel about this. If you think the muzzleloader season has better timing, then do that instead of archery. Or go modern firearm if you want to hunt in November. There are lots of choices, people aren't forced into buying an archery tag every year. You can change from one year to the next like I do.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 14, 2012, 12:28:52 PM
Post by: JLS on February 14, 2012, 12:30:33 PM
Very well stated Bobcat. Or blow out of this state and archery hunt in a state where the season is the whole month of september! :twocents:
Or, do two states.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 14, 2012, 12:32:17 PM
Post by: lokidog on February 14, 2012, 12:34:36 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 12:36:50 PM
Very well stated Bobcat. Or blow out of this state and archery hunt in a state where the season is the whole month of september! :twocents:
Or, do two states.
Good idea. You could get 10 days of hunting in Oregon's archery elk season before you come back to Washington for the opener here!
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 14, 2012, 12:39:16 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 14, 2012, 12:39:40 PM
Post by: bowhunterty on February 14, 2012, 12:43:22 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 14, 2012, 01:05:57 PM
If you notice in reading the link you provided, yes the bugling may start in August during what is called the pre rut which will last into September. During that time bulls are finding out who is living in their house and will start to determine a pecking order. But this is not the prime rut or when they actually start collecting cows and start breeding. That does not start until mid to late September with the heavy rut not kicking in until the later part of the month and lasting until early to mid October due to cows not being bread during their first cycle. If a cow does not get bread she will have a second cycle 20 days later which usually happens in early to mid October.
This is why most western states have their archery seasons last until later into September so that archers have a better chance of harvesting a bull or cow. Archery hunting for elk even during the prime rut is not an easy task and takes many years to learn elk behavior and hunt them.
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 01:15:27 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 14, 2012, 01:29:04 PM
We are not against MF or ML hunters we just can't figure out why WDFW keeps messing so much with the archery group when it is the most difficult of the three hunting styles.
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
Bobcat, the best way for you to undertand our plight is for you to take up achery like you have been talking about. Many of us have seen what the hunting is like when the dates are later in the month and it make a huge difference!!! I use to hunt elk with a rifle but it was just not as much of a challange shooting one at 200 yards. Archery is a little different and much more challanging. I have had multiple elk as close as 10 yards and come away with nothing because of no shot opportunity. Now that is exciting :drool:
We are not against MF or ML hunters we just can't figure out why WDFW keeps messing so much with the archery group when it is the most difficult of the three hunting styles.
90% chance I will be archery hunting for elk this year. The only reason I'm having a hard time deciding is that if I archery hunt, I'll be hunting alone. But I like having the opportunity to take a cow or a bull, and I can hunt close enough to home that it's easy for me to scout year around.
The timing of the archery season is intentional, I believe, in order to decrease the number of bulls taken by archery hunters. This has been explained by the WDFW. This is why I don't think there's a chance they're going to change the proposed seasons. Also they do have a moratorium on rule making right now so I'm not sure it's something they would even consider.
They're supposed to be pretty much sticking with the status quo for this three year package.
Post by: Curly on February 14, 2012, 01:50:39 PM
Very well stated Bobcat. Or blow out of this state and archery hunt in a state where the season is the whole month of september! :twocents::yeah:
You guys are a bunch of whiners. :cryriver:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 14, 2012, 01:52:24 PM
Bobcat, the best way for you to undertand our plight is for you to take up achery like you have been talking about. Many of us have seen what the hunting is like when the dates are later in the month and it make a huge difference!!! I use to hunt elk with a rifle but it was just not as much of a challange shooting one at 200 yards. Archery is a little different and much more challanging. I have had multiple elk as close as 10 yards and come away with nothing because of no shot opportunity. Now that is exciting :drool:
We are not against MF or ML hunters we just can't figure out why WDFW keeps messing so much with the archery group when it is the most difficult of the three hunting styles.
90% chance I will be archery hunting for elk this year. The only reason I'm having a hard time deciding is that if I archery hunt, I'll be hunting alone. But I like having the opportunity to take a cow or a bull, and I can hunt close enough to home that it's easy for me to scout year around.
The timing of the archery season is intentional, I believe, in order to decrease the number of bulls taken by archery hunters. This has been explained by the WDFW. This is why I don't think there's a chance they're going to change the proposed seasons. Also they do have a moratorium on rule making right now so I'm not sure it's something they would even consider.
They're supposed to be pretty much sticking with the status quo for this three year package.
Shortening the season was also done because archers were taking a higher percentage of bulls. It's starting to become total BS. Will they eventually close the archery season altogether because archers take too many bulls?
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 01:52:54 PM
Bobcat, the best way for you to undertand our plight is for you to take up achery like you have been talking about. Many of us have seen what the hunting is like when the dates are later in the month and it make a huge difference!!! I use to hunt elk with a rifle but it was just not as much of a challange shooting one at 200 yards. Archery is a little different and much more challanging. I have had multiple elk as close as 10 yards and come away with nothing because of no shot opportunity. Now that is exciting :drool:
We are not against MF or ML hunters we just can't figure out why WDFW keeps messing so much with the archery group when it is the most difficult of the three hunting styles.
90% chance I will be archery hunting for elk this year. The only reason I'm having a hard time deciding is that if I archery hunt, I'll be hunting alone. But I like having the opportunity to take a cow or a bull, and I can hunt close enough to home that it's easy for me to scout year around.
The timing of the archery season is intentional, I believe, in order to decrease the number of bulls taken by archery hunters. This has been explained by the WDFW. This is why I don't think there's a chance they're going to change the proposed seasons. Also they do have a moratorium on rule making right now so I'm not sure it's something they would even consider.
They're supposed to be pretty much sticking with the status quo for this three year package.
Knowing this then you should see why were upset with the state! Then WTH are they going back to the 8th in 4 years then? So is it a holiday thing, weekend thing, elk harvesting thing...... I know your new to the archery elk thing but ask any serious archery elk hunter what week in September he'd hunt if he had only one week to hunt? You'll find that the overwhelming majority will take the last week of September.
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2012, 01:55:53 PM
Quote
Shortening the season was also done because archers were taking a higher percentage of bulls. It's starting to become total BS. Will they eventually close the archery season altogether because archers take too many bulls?
Yes, possibly. If lumenocks are allowed, the bull harvest by archers will drastically increase. :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 01:56:47 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 14, 2012, 01:56:58 PM
QuoteShortening the season was also done because archers were taking a higher percentage of bulls. It's starting to become total BS. Will they eventually close the archery season altogether because archers take too many bulls?
Yes, possibly. If lumenocks are allowed, the bull harvest by archers will drastically increase. :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Trouble maker! You'll stir that pot and sit back and enjoy...and then decide to hunt modern!
Post by: JLS on February 14, 2012, 02:07:17 PM
I know your new to the archery elk thing but ask any serious archery elk hunter what week in September he'd hunt if he had only one week to hunt? You'll find that the overwhelming majority will take the last week of September.
Not me, 14-21 every time. I consider myself pretty serious.
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 02:15:20 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 14, 2012, 02:15:34 PM
From what I saw the plan shows the following for Quality and Bull elk permits:
MF: 974 total
Archery: 580 total
ML: 205 total
For antlerless: (get this)
MF: 3765 total
Archery: 418 total (granted many archery units allow for antlerless or 3 points or better) (most archers are happy to take a cow)
ML: 2129 total
Post by: Echomules on February 14, 2012, 03:09:54 PM
Commission Members,
Proposed Dates for General Archery Elk Seasons:
Why start the first Tuesday after Labor Day, Why not a firm date like the 8th, 10th or 15th of September every year? Like turkey starts April 15th no matter the day of week.
Hot Game Meat
A single week or most of one in early September can make a big difference in weather. The extreme heat of summer is often still with us for a few more days in September. This makes the ethical caring for meat a daunting challenge. The weather changes that come quickly in September can make this task much easier and lets a successful hunter avoid meat spoilage. This is not only the law, but is the ethical way to participate in this pursuit. Please help us avoid how quickly meat can spoil in the heat.
In the most recent proposal for changes to the Washington early archery elk season, it appears that the start of the season is earlier and earlier each year. We do not need to have a floating start date for this season any more than we need a floating start date for turkey season. The archery seasons seem to be further and further out of the season of the elk rut. Is there some scientific harvest gain or more likely reduction in harvest that is desired by this? I’m guessing that is has nothing to do with harvest, just a random starting date.
Thanks for your consideration,
Post by: BowBender87 on February 14, 2012, 05:29:31 PM
I know your new to the archery elk thing but ask any serious archery elk hunter what week in September he'd hunt if he had only one week to hunt? You'll find that the overwhelming majority will take the last week of September.
Not me, 14-21 every time. I consider myself pretty serious.
i understand the later week thing...but id take the 1st every year if i had to choose...i just like gettin to the elk before other people do :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: Swatson on February 14, 2012, 05:47:40 PM
I know your new to the archery elk thing but ask any serious archery elk hunter what week in September he'd hunt if he had only one week to hunt? You'll find that the overwhelming majority will take the last week of September.
Not me, 14-21 every time. I consider myself pretty serious.
i understand the later week thing...but id take the 1st every year if i had to choose...i just like gettin to the elk before other people do :twocents: :twocents:
Lets not dig too deep! I guess I need to rephrase it again...Theres only a one week season for everyone, what week would you want??? Thats the simple point I was trying to make.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 14, 2012, 06:06:56 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 14, 2012, 06:19:37 PM
You can please some of the people....
It does not matter, whatever they do, someone is going to complain.
Sure, the last week of september, and the first week of October, you hear more bugling...
But I can call in a Bull from the end of August until the middle of October...
I like it better when there are not a bunch of "bunny Huggers" out in the woods, because they actually hike in the woods, most Elk hunters I meet rarely get further away from their vehicle than a mile, and they wont leave the road still, thank god for gates ( :o ) I actually talked to a guy that called them "trails" :chuckle:.
I have been told EVERY YEAR that "they just are not talking", yet I hear them, call them, see them (damnit, need to work on killing them)
The reason they start the season when they do, is because of all the complaining in past years, no wonder they turn a deaf ear to our complaints now. :twocents:
Seems we will never be happy, until they let us use infra-red, heat seeking, arrows, allow all ORV access, and mix the Elk with Northwest Trek animals (so they stand next to road)
Do a search, see how many Elk are harvested in the first week of season, compaired to the last week...
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 14, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 14, 2012, 06:47:35 PM
I have to give you that, but still, I am happy to have multiple encounters on a regular basis, than that one heart stopping one.
But then again, when they went to Spike only on the East-side, that only was cause for further frustration, unless drawn....
Have not "been back" on the West side long enough to know the difference, been 20 years......
Post by: huntndad on February 14, 2012, 08:39:07 PM
Yes, believe it or not, rifle hunters kill bulls at a higher percentage rate than archers or muzzleloaders, not just more bulls due to the higher number of hunters.
Post by: jstone on February 15, 2012, 08:21:52 AM
Post by: Snapshot on February 15, 2012, 09:00:45 AM
1) It wasn't total number of bulls killed that caught the attention of the MF'er (read that either way) who started the process that got our early elk season dates changed; it was the average number of points on the bulls.
2) Those who will wait to decide which type of weapon they will hunt with may never understand why this "whining" is important to unconditional archery hunters, those of us who would prefer to not hunt at all than to not hunt with a bow.
Post by: dreamingbig on February 15, 2012, 09:04:06 AM
huntndad, :tup: Its only common sense. some people just cant figure it out..Another :tup:
I haven't even drawn a branch antlered tag yet in 9 years! Gum 356 being spike only is also a joke!
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 15, 2012, 06:06:46 PM
Quote
unconditional archery hunters, those of us who would prefer to not hunt at all than to not hunt with a bow.While I might hunt with any weapon rather than not hunt at all, I have been Archery ONLY since 1987, and Traditional ONLY since 1992...
ALL SEASONS, ALL GAME, turkey, bear, dear, elk, grouse, rabbit, etc...
I just hear constant whining, it does not matter what changes they make, someone still whines...
the change of season, from October to September, was due to whining, the change to not open on Labor Day weekend, was due to whining, seems like they have tried to accommodate us (Archers), but no matter what they do, there is still whining...
No matter what, they will never let us hunt the last week of September, forget it, it is not going to happen.
As has been stated here plenty, if you attend meetings, send letters, join clubs, make your voice heard, then you have every right to complain, yet go to a meeting, and you will see far more modern firearm and Muzzle-loader hunters than Archery, :dunno:
I wish that the season was longer, yet, I see few hunters during the week, and half as many during second week as first, the only complaint I see that the WDFW might take serious is to utilize weekends, yet they cannot do that and still keep us out of the last week of September, AGAIN, SOMETHING THEY WILL NEVER LET US HAVE !
No matter what the WDFW will not allow Archery to be after the 23rd of September.
So, you can complain all you want, it will fall on deaf ears.
Make the best of the seasons they do offer, and play the cards you are dealt, hunt other states if you want the last weekend, because unless we get an Archery hunter to become governor, we are the "Red-Headed Stepchild" of a "Blond Game Department"
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 15, 2012, 06:13:59 PM
Post by: huntndad on February 15, 2012, 08:25:49 PM
In all seriousness, I don't care what changes are made, as long as the goal is to improve the overall hunting in this state. Let's at least have good reasons for making changes, and please, don't send out bogus surveys with generic questions and then use our answers to justify whatever agenda you wanted in the first place.
Post by: Swatson on February 17, 2012, 08:15:34 AM
Post by: FSTaxidermy on February 17, 2012, 08:36:49 AM
:yeah:Quoteunconditional archery hunters, those of us who would prefer to not hunt at all than to not hunt with a bow.While I might hunt with any weapon rather than not hunt at all, I have been Archery ONLY since 1987, and Traditional ONLY since 1992...
ALL SEASONS, ALL GAME, turkey, bear, dear, elk, grouse, rabbit, etc...
I just hear constant whining, it does not matter what changes they make, someone still whines...
the change of season, from October to September, was due to whining, the change to not open on Labor Day weekend, was due to whining, seems like they have tried to accommodate us (Archers), but no matter what they do, there is still whining...
No matter what, they will never let us hunt the last week of September, forget it, it is not going to happen.
As has been stated here plenty, if you attend meetings, send letters, join clubs, make your voice heard, then you have every right to complain, yet go to a meeting, and you will see far more modern firearm and Muzzle-loader hunters than Archery, :dunno:
I wish that the season was longer, yet, I see few hunters during the week, and half as many during second week as first, the only complaint I see that the WDFW might take serious is to utilize weekends, yet they cannot do that and still keep us out of the last week of September, AGAIN, SOMETHING THEY WILL NEVER LET US HAVE !
No matter what the WDFW will not allow Archery to be after the 23rd of September.
So, you can complain all you want, it will fall on deaf ears.
Make the best of the seasons they do offer, and play the cards you are dealt, hunt other states if you want the last weekend, because unless we get an Archery hunter to become governor, we are the "Red-Headed Stepchild" of a "Blond Game Department"
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 17, 2012, 09:21:01 AM
Post by: highside74 on February 17, 2012, 09:26:15 AM
There should be no rut hunts at all for deer or elk. :twocents: :peep:
:mgun: :mgun2: :stirthepot:
Post by: bullfisher on February 17, 2012, 10:31:55 AM
I was headed to the NE a few years back and decided to call the Colville gamies and ask them about the recent winter kill on whitetail as id heard it was bad. He said "yeah the local herd seems to be down a little" I said oh, you don't have any study or biology results yet? " Study"? He asked. " We haven't had a study out here since the late 70's".
Post by: jstone on February 17, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 17, 2012, 12:06:40 PM
Ok i dont get it why the modern and the muzzy hunters get to draw for cows in the CLOCKUM this year but not ARCHERY. I e-mailed and asked the DFW lastnight??? That gets me :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
They gave us a.late season cow hunt in there...
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on February 17, 2012, 04:58:41 PM
Quote
But biologists and REAL studies cost money, money the state won't get back. The same areas get the same amount of attention every year from the state.In several conversations with a few different biologist employed by the WDFW, I was informed that they were not "game Biologists, but "forest Practices" biologists, this was region 5 and 6, contact numbers from the WDFW website, they monitor Trees, and agricultural interests, on primarily PRIVATE timber company land... :bash:
I was headed to the NE a few years back and decided to call the Colville gamies and ask them about the recent winter kill on whitetail as id heard it was bad. He said "yeah the local herd seems to be down a little" I said oh, you don't have any study or biology results yet? " Study"? He asked. " We haven't had a study out here since the late 70's".
Why are they on the State payroll ?, monetary compensation from PRIVATE timber companies !!!
The WDFW is counting budget dollars, not game numbers.. :twocents:
Post by: FSTaxidermy on February 18, 2012, 08:27:58 AM
QuoteBut biologists and REAL studies cost money, money the state won't get back. The same areas get the same amount of attention every year from the state.In several conversations with a few different biologist employed by the WDFW, I was informed that they were not "game Biologists, but "forest Practices" biologists, this was region 5 and 6, contact numbers from the WDFW website, they monitor Trees, and agricultural interests, on primarily PRIVATE timber company land... :bash:
I was headed to the NE a few years back and decided to call the Colville gamies and ask them about the recent winter kill on whitetail as id heard it was bad. He said "yeah the local herd seems to be down a little" I said oh, you don't have any study or biology results yet? " Study"? He asked. " We haven't had a study out here since the late 70's".
Why are they on the State payroll ?, monetary compensation from PRIVATE timber companies !!!
The WDFW is counting budget dollars, not game numbers.. :twocents:
soon to be counting wolves :bash:
Post by: jstone on February 19, 2012, 11:47:30 AM
Post by: huntnnw on February 19, 2012, 10:47:35 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 19, 2012, 11:06:10 PM
almost every western state allows a 30 day elk archery season, but us :chuckle:
We do get pretty close to 30 days when you add up the early and late seasons.
Post by: Swatson on February 20, 2012, 05:41:53 AM
Post by: windygorge on February 20, 2012, 06:03:22 AM
love it. all in favor say "I" !!! :tup:
here's a link to new proposal comments. http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/feb0712a/
Post by: windygorge on February 20, 2012, 06:09:54 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 20, 2012, 10:23:16 AM
almost every western state allows a 30 day elk archery season, but us :chuckle:
We do get pretty close to 30 days when you add up the early and late seasons.
Other western states get late seasons as well by being able to hunt with other weapons.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 20, 2012, 10:28:45 AM
I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!
You've got my vote. :tup:
Post by: PolarBear on February 21, 2012, 08:52:15 AM
I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!Not me, I prefer the late season whether it is elk or deer.
Post by: buckfvr on February 21, 2012, 09:17:05 AM
Post by: bullfisher on February 21, 2012, 05:32:17 PM
I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!Not me, I prefer the late season whether it is elk or deer.
You prefer the archery November/December elk season over the mid September season? Do tell...
Post by: big wood on February 21, 2012, 08:12:29 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on February 21, 2012, 08:40:37 PM
Will the dates change in a couple years due to calender? Yes :tup:. But I'm sure that is part of there management plan.
Doesn't the rifle seasons always start around the same time? It's been so long since I rifle hunted I can't remember. Look at it at the other end. If they opened rifle sooner based on calender, they will have the possibility of having the end of the rut during rifle season. :bdid:
Look at late deer season in Eastern Washington. Another day later. Why is that? There hasn't been a set day of the week. Matter of fact it use to open 2 days after late rifle.
Rick Landers wrote a piece last year in the Spokesman Review about the Whitetail rut. He reported the peak of the rut is November 21-23. Low and behold the days they shut down. He made reference to it in the article. It gave the bucks a better chance due to there vulnerability. :bs:
The other thing that comes into play is new Quality tag right in the primes time dates in most Eastern Washington units. I believe September 21-26. With weapon of choice. This created more money as another Once in a lifetime hunt.
Post by: PolarBear on February 22, 2012, 03:05:24 AM
There are fewer people in the woods, the temperatures are nice and cold, the better animals have been pushed into isolated pockets where most "hunters" are too lazy or afraid to venture, it is easier to get time off of work, etc. Hell, I don't even start hunting elk until around Thanksgiving and deer a week later.I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!Not me, I prefer the late season whether it is elk or deer.
You prefer the archery November/December elk season over the mid September season? Do tell...
Post by: FSTaxidermy on February 22, 2012, 07:43:01 AM
I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!Not me, I prefer the late season whether it is elk or deer.
:yeah: most of my success has been in the late season :twocents:
Post by: PolarBear on February 22, 2012, 10:16:14 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 22, 2012, 10:56:13 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 22, 2012, 11:01:57 AM
Doesn't the rifle seasons always start around the same time? It's been so long since I rifle hunted I can't remember. Look at it at the other end. If they opened rifle sooner based on calender, they will have the possibility of having the end of the rut during rifle season.
They won't mess with the modern season because that would tick off too many hunters at the same time. Many of their decisions are based on the path of least resistance (as opposed to science), as we saw with the past weapons restrictions added for cougar during bow and ML.
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2012, 11:07:49 AM
I'm not sure why they don't schedule archery season to open on a Saturday as well. Early muzzleloader deer and elk seasons both start on Saturday.
I'm not sure what most people would prefer, but I would think Saturday would make the majority happy. Myself, I would prefer a mid-week opening day, so I can hunt with less people. (yes I'm selfish) :chuckle:
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 22, 2012, 11:12:53 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 22, 2012, 11:15:09 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 22, 2012, 11:50:53 AM
Post by: Swatson on February 22, 2012, 11:51:17 AM
There are fewer people in the woods, the temperatures are nice and cold, the better animals have been pushed into isolated pockets where most "hunters" are too lazy or afraid to venture, it is easier to get time off of work, etc. Hell, I don't even start hunting elk until around Thanksgiving and deer a week later.I think most of us would gladly give up the late season for a month of early season!Not me, I prefer the late season whether it is elk or deer.
You prefer the archery November/December elk season over the mid September season? Do tell...
The late hunt is fun and still hunting at least but unfortunately most the units are closed and your stuck to hunting the flat lands for cow only. If thats your cup of tea then thats fine but I prefer the high country when the bulls are screaming! Thats archery elk hunting to me! Don't know many places in the lowlands where people are too lazy and afraid to get too? I see a lot less people up in the high country in Sept than I do in Ryderwood, Winston, Skookumchuck etc in late season.
Post by: dreamingbig on February 22, 2012, 01:08:03 PM
Post by: bullfisher on February 22, 2012, 01:44:54 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 22, 2012, 02:01:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2012, 02:03:10 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 22, 2012, 02:12:31 PM
Only if the letter requests September 1st to the 30th for the early archery season and you are allowed to hunt 5 days of the modern firearm season. What do you think?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 22, 2012, 02:20:48 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 22, 2012, 02:27:42 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 22, 2012, 02:29:31 PM
Post by: bigbeamhunter on February 22, 2012, 02:36:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2012, 02:39:30 PM
Quote
it may be our equipment has evolved so much that just about anyone can buy a bow and within a month with a range finder can shoot 60 yards
I'd agree with that if you cut the distance in half. For me anyway, it was a challenge getting tight groups at 40 yards. But I could see just about anyone, with a little help, being proficient to 30 yards in a month.
Post by: Bob33 on February 22, 2012, 02:40:31 PM
He did say "shoot 60 yards", not "hit at 60 yards". :chuckle:Quoteit may be our equipment has evolved so much that just about anyone can buy a bow and within a month with a range finder can shoot 60 yards
I'd agree with that if you cut the distance in half. For me anyway, it was a challenge getting tight groups at 40 yards. But I could see just about anyone, with a little help, being proficient to 30 yards in a month.
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2012, 02:41:52 PM
He did say "shoot 60 yards", not "hit at 60 yards". :chuckle:Quoteit may be our equipment has evolved so much that just about anyone can buy a bow and within a month with a range finder can shoot 60 yards
I'd agree with that if you cut the distance in half. For me anyway, it was a challenge getting tight groups at 40 yards. But I could see just about anyone, with a little help, being proficient to 30 yards in a month.
That's true. Yes, I CAN shoot to 60 yards, no problem. I guess I mis-read his statement! The issue would be how long would it take for me to run out of arrows and have nothing to show for it?
Post by: bigbeamhunter on February 22, 2012, 03:21:01 PM
Post by: Fullabull on February 22, 2012, 04:34:52 PM
Post by: Slow-1 on February 29, 2012, 10:38:19 AM
Or am I going to have to change my vacation.
Post by: dreamingbig on February 29, 2012, 12:35:40 PM
Commission Meetings:
•March 9-10, 2012 (public input accepted)
Moses Lake City Hall
321 S. Balsam
Moses Lake, WA 98837
•April 13-14, 2012 (Fish and Wildlife Commission decides on and adopts rule proposals)
Natural Resources Building
1111 Washington Street SE
Olympia, WA 98501
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 29, 2012, 12:54:32 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on February 29, 2012, 12:59:19 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on March 01, 2012, 09:52:37 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 01, 2012, 10:40:40 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on March 01, 2012, 11:15:47 AM
I can handle the heat too, that is not my main motivation for the change. I have taken three animals in past 6 years and temps were in 80s all three times and we were 5+ miles in. No meat was lost.
Post by: et1702 on March 01, 2012, 01:26:57 PM
ET
Dear DFW,
I have been an archery hunter for over 33 years and had the privilege of hunting in many of our western states. I have been a WA resident since 1992. I do not understand why the DFW has moved the early archery elk season around so much in the past few years (i.e., shortened the season and moved it up). There is no evidence that Archers have a higher success rate or take more bulls than Modern Rifle or Muzzleloader seasons. In fact, the evidence is contrary to this unfounded assumption, as the Modern and ML success rates have been much higher that the Archery season success rates. Additionally, as a group, the Modern and ML seasons have significantly more Quality bull tags available. To add insult to injury, Early Archery Elk seasons have been getting shorter and moving earlier in the month of September. Can someone please explain the scientific reasons for this?
If it is a matter of the start date being the Tuesday following Labor Day, please fix the annual start date to occur on the 8th of September thru the 23rd of September. I have proposed the season to include a total 16 days, as I would like to recover the three days we lost when DFW changed from the Saturday before Labor day to the Tuesday after Labor day. I also understand that in the year 2015 that these will be the approximate hunt dates. However, for the next three years, the date will continue to move forward.
Alternatively, the DFW could fix the start date as the second Saturday of the month in September, which would be my preferred alternative. This would avoid any use conflicts that occur due to Labor Day and allow early archery hunters to hunt when the weather is cooler and more conducive to meat preservation. It would also allow Archers to hunt closer to the rutting season and would be an equitable trade-off (i.e., presumably the success rates would also go up and down each year). Assuming a 16-day season, the dates would move forward and backward (i.e., in and out of the rut) between the 8th thru the 23rd and the 14th thru the 29th of September. Most of the other western states allow three to four weeks for their early archery seasons (i.e., typically the entire month of September) without any detiment to the Elk herd or other users (i.e., Modern & ML groups) quality or quantity of opportunities.
Unless the DFW can provide a scientific reason why we shouldn't extend the archery season and move it later in the month, I respectfully request that the proposed changes identified above be incoroporated into the 2012 thru 2014 three year plan currently being considered.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on March 01, 2012, 01:41:38 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 01, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Send lettersto the Commission regarding why is the public input on a workday, is it so they do not get much public input, since most people have to work???
Doesn't matter anyway, because by now they're done listening to public input and already have their minds made up. (IMO)
Post by: dreamingbig on March 01, 2012, 03:09:52 PM
Yes it is a low probability but we aren't going to throw in the towel and quit fighting. They may want us to go away quietly but they are going to keep hearing from us!
Post by: washelkhunter on March 01, 2012, 10:16:21 PM