Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: MDGrand on February 27, 2012, 10:29:54 AM

Title: Long Range Shooting Schools - What is your take on these two systems?
Post by: MDGrand on February 27, 2012, 10:29:54 AM: So, I am intersted in taking some long range shooting classes. I have done a lot of research on BOTH courses. Talked to past students of both and they are equally comming with high recommendations. However, given all my research it has also caused me to have my doubts about certain things, despite what I have heard or read.

These are the two I am interested in so far:

http://thompsonlongrange.com/

- This system works exlusively with the Weatherby 300-378 Accumark and a custom Leupold scope with their proprietary reticle with hold points out to 1000K yards. They litterally hand the rifle new to you, teach and have you mount the scope and have it fitted to your feel and specifications on site.

Then, they teach you load teqniques and gather the data at their private range. ONLY changing the amount of charge to get a specific velocity that matches their fixed aiming points. ALL other aspects stay the same.. the brass, the bullet (they use ONLY a Nosler 180 Accubond) primer and Hodgon Powder. NO other substitions or bullet options are allowed.

Once the charge is obtained as well as MOA accuracy, you zero the rifle at 300 yards.

Day two, they teach how to gather air density readings and shoot at each aiming point. Finally ending you up at 1000K yards, which they GUARANTEE you will hit with thier system.

Interesting points:

They teach that overpower of scope can work against you - 14x is their max reticle

Windage is NOT something they push on. Estimation is important but knowing your size of your animal and waiting for wind lower than 20mph is what they push.

Elevation - changing elevation is compensated with dialing the scope. "air density" is emphasized MORE so than elevation as the owner told me that their are days that at 500 feet elevation the densitry can be similar to 4K feet
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The other school is the "Best of the West" class in TX. I think we ALL know about this one if you turn on the outdoor channel and watch. So, I will not go too much into it. It is pretty basic stuff you have heard... Huskemaw scopes, turrets, KNOW your wind, Practice, Use Berger Bullets, etc.

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Where my questions come in:

1. Wind adjustments from EVERY book I have read or show I have seen on TV on sniping to long range shooting is HUGE out to 1K yards... there is no minimizing this variable.

2. Sucks that you MUST only commit to one bullet period. Not that I do not think the Accubond is fantastic do everything bullet, because I believe it can be. But, I like to have a few different loads.

3. I already have a 300 RUM custom with a Huskemaw 5-20 Blue Diamond Scope that shoots 210 Grain Bergers at under MOA. If I went to the Thompson course, I wold most likely sell it as I do not need a 300 RUM and a 300-378 Roy Weatherby.

4. That being all said, the simplicity of the system and the people I have talked too are all believers. There is also something really nice about have a fixed reticle scope and NOT having to dial up all the time.

Thoughts??? I know there are some HARDCORE long range guys here who can weigh in on both. Let me know your thoughts. Love to hear them!

So far, I am leaning towards the Thompson school, even though it is restrictive and sounds a little bit too good to be true on some aspects. If I do, I will be selling my 300 RUM custom which has the following: (If anyone is interested, please PM me)

*HS Precision Pro Series 2000 M24 Tactical Stock - Olive Drab with Pachmeyer Recoil Pad
*26" Hart #5 Stainless Steel Barrel with a Douglas Contour
*Badger Ordnance oversized Bolt Knob - OD Green
*Huskemaw 5-20 Blue Diamond Scope with Warn Rings and Bases w/Butler Creek Scope Covers
*Barrel Duracoated Matt Black
*Remington 700 Action Trued, Squared and fitted by Dan Cown Rifle Smith with Trinyte Finish
*RCBS Reloading and sizing dies
Title: Re: Long Range Shooting Schools - What is your take on these two systems?
Post by: Biggerhammer on February 27, 2012, 10:43:56 AM: Seams as if your half way there and you wouldnt really benifits from a long range school. With today's equipment the key to extended range first round hits is the math. Range, drift, drop etc. if you want to be consistent in the long range game then your going to need to " Turn Knobs" hold over reticles aren't going to cut it , especially for wind drift. Build your custom rifle, invest the money you would spend on the course in brass, bullets, powder and primers and get some real world trigger time behind the rifle. Things come quick when your actually sending rounds down range, you learn what works for YOU.

Choose your optics system you prefer, MIL or MOA and learn it well. The hold is no different at 100 than it is at a 1000 yards. The only difference is the math that has to be done to dial the " Dope " for the given range. True wind reading with come with trigger time.
Title: Re: Long Range Shooting Schools - What is your take on these two systems?
Post by: sebek556 on February 27, 2012, 10:54:15 AM: :yeah: I went to U.S. Army sniper school, not a private course. To me its math,math and math. Sight picture does not change, your going to school to learn how to do the math and hold on a proper sight picture, not kentucky windage. load your loads do test fires and write out your cheat sheet. :tup:
Title: Re: Long Range Shooting Schools - What is your take on these two systems?
Post by: high country on February 27, 2012, 11:49:36 AM: the only structured class I have taken is at front sight. I would run away from anyone that is dedicated to teaching you only how to shoot their rifle. learn to do the calculations and corrections, keep a log and shoot a couple barrels out for the money it will cost you for a class. you want to know how to shoot a high horsepower rig as well as a middle range rig, there will be a day that you are hurt, forget ammo, break a gun....etc. you are gonig to want the fundamentals nailed down.

I would also say that if you ever get a chance to shoot with maicej szerbiak that you take it....I became friends with him after working together and let me say that he is flat bad axe on any gun.
Title: Re: Long Range Shooting Schools - What is your take on these two systems?
Post by: rbros on February 27, 2012, 02:31:23 PM: Neither class is really setup for a guy to truly learn how to read wind. In most of Texas the wind is consistent. Meaning, if its blowing 10mph at you, its probably 10mph all the way out to the target. Good for determining wind speed, but not for long range hunting here in the mountains. The other class is on their private range from what I have been told. Its fairly protected, and again, pretty flat. They pretty much use it to sell their rifles and show how "easy" it can be. If you already know how to shoot your rifle, invest in a good rangefinder, pda, ballistic program, and a Kestrel. It will be far less than a class. Go shoot in the hills under real hunting conditions and keep a log book. It won't take to long to figure out if you keep good notes on what the different conditions will do. There is not a fast path in this sport, it takes LOTS of rounds down range. A class can teach you the basics, such as MOA, and beginning reading wind, but there is no substitution for real world practice. Defensive Edge puts on a good class that is practical for hunters. Its mostly all in the mountains, and gives you definite real world situations.