Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: bankwalker on February 29, 2012, 10:28:35 AM

Title: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: bankwalker on February 29, 2012, 10:28:35 AM: Well I have made the decision to switch back to archery deer and elk this year. And sense I've made this choice I figure I will go all out and archery hunt everything.

So I just went out and picked up a Kahr cw45 for my light weight, heavy hitting woods sidearm/every day carry gun. So this will of course be by my side on those archery bear hunts.

So, to my question. Which factory ammo should I have my gun loaded with for angry bear attacks?

And if it makes a difference. This gun imo has no felt recoil at all. So "hot" loads will not be an issue for me.

Thanks
Title: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: sleepingin on February 29, 2012, 10:33:15 AM: Doubletap.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: h20hunter on February 29, 2012, 10:35:25 AM: I prefer 230 gr round nose. IF you are in a position to fire you are going to be dumping rounds at close range. My thought is to carry a round that will penetrate and break bone. Of course....as the bear/cat/meth head is chewing on me it may be to late I could be wishing for a nice can of bear spray.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: bankwalker on February 29, 2012, 10:38:11 AM: I could not imagine the horrors of a meth head eating me alive :chuckle:
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Fowlweather25 on February 29, 2012, 10:39:55 AM: Hornady critical defense
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: coachcw on February 29, 2012, 12:10:04 PM: Quote from: Fowlweather25 on February 29, 2012, 10:39:55 AM
Hornady critical defense
that what I pack I think that you would get better penetration with the 185's
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: saylean on February 29, 2012, 12:24:29 PM: I carry a .45 glock with me archery hunting too. I stagger round nose and hollow points in the clip. I figure its gonna be a close encounter anyway....just hope it never happens.

Be safe, good luck!
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: muzzlebuck on February 29, 2012, 01:09:28 PM: ...
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: longstevo on February 29, 2012, 01:27:06 PM: Personally, I would go with Hornaday Zombie Max ammo. Just to sure...
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: bankwalker on February 29, 2012, 01:50:30 PM: Quote from: longstevo on February 29, 2012, 01:27:06 PM
Personally, I would go with Hornaday Zombie Max ammo. Just to sure...

I seen those in cabelas the other day. There were more kids checking them out then adults.

I just shot my first box of hornady 200gr xtp's through the Kahr. Wow every single f'n round failed to chamber. 20 rounds and not one functioned properly

BUT 200 rounds of herters 230gr fmj's functioned FLAWLESSLY.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 29, 2012, 01:53:14 PM: You really want a good solid bullet that will hit hard penetrate well and have a lot of knock down power behind it. I would look at the winchester PD1's. I have been running them for awhile and carry them in my auto's. I would have no problem shooting a bear with one and getting solid results. I have shot a lot of big game animals with a handgun and know what it takes to put them down clean. Another hard hitter is the gold dot. They do not expand well but they sure penetrate like crazy and will still open up nice.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: longstevo on March 01, 2012, 02:22:49 PM: Quote from: bankwalker on February 29, 2012, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: longstevo on February 29, 2012, 01:27:06 PM
Personally, I would go with Hornaday Zombie Max ammo. Just to sure...

I seen those in cabelas the other day. There were more kids checking them out then adults.

I just shot my first box of hornady 200gr xtp's through the Kahr. Wow every single f'n round failed to chamber. 20 rounds and not one functioned properly

BUT 200 rounds of herters 230gr fmj's functioned FLAWLESSLY.

Haha, thats funny. Even the cheap ammo still goes 'bang.'
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Swannytheswan on March 02, 2012, 04:04:47 PM: doubletap and buffalo bore have some deep penetrating hardcast bullets in the 255gr range they are +p's though so if you shoot many of them you will want a stronger recoil spring
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: fish vacuum on March 03, 2012, 12:31:32 PM: I've read some really interesting stuff from a guide who has seen a lot of bears shot with handguns and written about the results on other websites. He didn't have much good to say about the usual self defense calibers of 9mm, .40, and .45. His minimum in handguns for hound or bait hunting where there's time to make a well placed shot is .41mag and 10mm.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: h20hunter on March 03, 2012, 12:36:03 PM: Im quite the hipocrate on this topic....bear spray is really a vetter option...however....i know this and still lije my .45.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: fish vacuum on March 03, 2012, 11:30:20 PM: A .45 is still good medicine for the tweekers you can encounter anywhere. Running into meth heads when you return to your truck is more likely than being attacked by a bear.
And a .45 is still better than a sharp stick with bears.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Gutpile on March 04, 2012, 06:49:21 AM: Having actually killed a bear with a .45 I recomend selling it and buying 10mm with hot loads or packing a .41 or .44 revolver.

Ive done it and its not very effective. I used staggered 230 fmj and 230 xtps. The XTPs performed perfectly and the mushroom was perfect but the .45 auto simply doesnt have the power to stop a bear quickly.

Some may poopoo my post but Ive been there done that and wont be in bear country with anything other than a Glock 20 qith 16 rounds of maxed out xtp's
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Sideswipe on March 04, 2012, 02:27:02 PM: For what its worth :dunno:, Park Ranger policy for dealing w/bear is solids for their 40 cal or 10mm. Just look'in at the muzzle of a 45 will be enuf for most two legged predators-the rest will have to learn the hard way. Alaska Guard bear spray. I carry a 10 mm-hope I never get into a situation where I have to use it rather than my rifle though. Got it after I had to crawl thru a thicket after a wounded sow. Fortunately for me she had bled out by the time I found her. Glock 20 or Colt Delta Elite or CZ (latter 2 for the wealthy ones). At
$ .65/round it ain't no range gun.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: bankwalker on March 05, 2012, 10:14:10 AM: I had wanted a 10mm but couldn't find anything in my price range. I kinda figure 6 quick shots (yes I can stay on target) with a 45 acp would do the job

I'm really not to worried about a bear attacking. It's just more of a assurance when I'm stalking within 30 yards. and after the shot, not knowing if the bear is dead as I walk up on it

One thing i didn't know whag kahrs are +P rated. so I could get my buddies neighbor to load a little hotter rounds for me :dunno:
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: sirmissalot on March 09, 2012, 08:16:29 AM: Quote from: Gutpile on March 04, 2012, 06:49:21 AM
Having actually killed a bear with a .45 I recomend selling it and buying 10mm with hot loads or packing a .41 or .44 revolver.

Ive done it and its not very effective. I used staggered 230 fmj and 230 xtps. The XTPs performed perfectly and the mushroom was perfect but the .45 auto simply doesnt have the power to stop a bear quickly.

Some may poopoo my post but Ive been there done that and wont be in bear country with anything other than a Glock 20 qith 16 rounds of maxed out xtp's

Thats pretty interesting. Is the reason you would choose a 10mm over a revolver just because you get 16 rounds instead of 6? I pack a small 44 mag, but I have heard that arguement several times before and from some experienced guides in wyoming where they have to deal with Grizzlys, apparently making a good shot on a charging bear is kinda difficult... :chuckle: but I never can really decide on which side of the fence I stand, as I can understand both sides.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: h20hunter on March 09, 2012, 08:18:54 AM: I'd like to hear the story from bankwalker on how he came to close combat with a bear. Sounds like a hell of a story.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: LeeMajors on March 09, 2012, 08:28:04 AM: I also envision any encounter with a bear will probably not involve a good steady aim, so 17 rounds of gold dot bonded ammo is my pick.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 09, 2012, 08:29:51 AM: I have a friend that is colville Indian and he shot a bear on the reservation a few years back with his 45. It got the job done but took multiple shots.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: high country on March 09, 2012, 08:57:28 AM: Quote from: Gutpile on March 04, 2012, 06:49:21 AM
Having actually killed a bear with a .45 I recomend selling it and buying 10mm with hot loads or packing a .41 or .44 revolver.

Ive done it and its not very effective. I used staggered 230 fmj and 230 xtps. The XTPs performed perfectly and the mushroom was perfect but the .45 auto simply doesnt have the power to stop a bear quickly.

Some may poopoo my post but Ive been there done that and wont be in bear country with anything other than a Glock 20 qith 16 rounds of maxed out xtp's

Ever consider 45super with hardcast? That is what I roll when I grab my 1911. I sent a similar bullet at similar velocity the whole length of a whitetail.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Wazukie on March 09, 2012, 09:00:58 AM: Ask the guy in Soldotna Ak if he was happy he had 454 casull with him when the bear charged him. 5 shots center mass dropped that grizz dead.

a 45ACP throws a 200grn bullet about 1000fps, 10mm about 1200fps, 41mag about 1400fps. a 454 Casull throws a 300grn bullet about 1600fps. I know which one I would have if I could afford it.

That being said, I carry my .357 7-shot revolver loaded with 158grn XTP, shooting at 1400fps. I'm confident that it'd drop a black bear as long as I do my part, but I also carry bear spray with me. just my :twocents:
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 09, 2012, 09:08:20 AM: Well I carry my little. 357 sig. Don't know how it would do but I never plan to use it.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: h20hunter on March 09, 2012, 09:19:04 AM: Waz........intesting point that you carry both. Which will you go to first..the spray or the gun?
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Wazukie on March 09, 2012, 09:48:36 AM: Quote from: h20hunter on March 09, 2012, 09:19:04 AM
Waz........intesting point that you carry both. Which will you go to first..the spray or the gun?

Good question, probably my revolver, hard to shoot when you can't see. I am just a costumed to having the bear spray. Probably more comfortable drawing and firing the revolver than the bear spray.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: h20hunter on March 09, 2012, 09:51:07 AM: Didn't think about that. I suppose when you touch off the spray you could easily be affected by it as well. Sounds like either way you are well prepared.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: Button Nubbs on March 09, 2012, 09:53:14 AM: When u are being charged by a bear, shi+ goes south fast. From my experience it would be better to have something you are comfortable with rather than the biggest and baddest. That situation is more than a lot of people can even imagine. Scariest moment of my life for sure. And at a fresh 19 years old I thought "well this is it..."

That said I carry a g20. Not because its the highest cap and has great ballistic performance but because I am comfortable with it, can shoot it very well and can trust my life to it. :twocents:
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: sirmissalot on March 09, 2012, 10:04:06 AM: The majority of guides in wyoming carry bear spray and a sidearm. They carry the spray mostly because the forest service/game wardens frown upon shooting their beloved grizzlies, however everyone of them will tell you they are going to grab the gun before the spray, then spray the bear after he is dead so he can tell the officer it wasn't working so he had to use lethal force.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 09, 2012, 10:26:20 AM: I mainly carry while bear hunting jusr to have on the recovery westside can be think and close quarters.
Title: Re: 45 acp, archery backup?
Post by: cedarriver on March 11, 2012, 10:06:16 PM: I'm not much of a side arm guy but I am a taxidermist. I say bigger the better. Most animals I skin out that have been shot in the head as a insurance round the slug is usually sitting right under the skin, doesn't penetrate the skull. Not sure what caliber these were but just saying you need a heavy round to get through that thick skull.