Post by: Naches Sportsman on March 03, 2012, 06:30:38 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 03, 2012, 06:37:28 PM
Post by: passing-thru on March 03, 2012, 07:08:37 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on March 03, 2012, 07:47:42 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on March 03, 2012, 07:50:56 PM
During the early spring of 2006, WDFW received numerous reports of dead deer, especially fawns, in the Yakima area with hair loss. The geographical extent of reports received in 2006 had expanded greatly compared to previous years and included occurrences of the condition in mule deer. Aerial surveys and harvest statistics suggest that the deer population in Yakima and Kittitas counties has declined by about 50% since the arrival of the lice. It is unknown if Bovicola tibialis infestations are the sole reason for the drop in deer numbers, but they are suspected to be a factor.
Bovicola tibialis is also associated with hair loss in deer in Klickitat County. In Chelan County, the occurrence of Bovicola tibialis was documented in 2009, and by April 2010, deer affected by hair loss were observed throughout the county's mule deer winter range.
Neither species of the exotic lice described above affect humans or domestic animals.
In captive settings, deer have been successfully cleared of lice infestations with the use of medication. However, in free-ranging situations, there is no practical method for delivering effective doses of medication to large populations of wild deer.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on March 03, 2012, 08:06:58 PM
Post by: norsepeak on March 03, 2012, 08:33:08 PM
Post by: ribka on March 03, 2012, 08:47:32 PM
have not yet seen a deer with hair loss in 2011 and 2012.
hope it is a positive sign
Post by: coachcw on March 03, 2012, 09:41:01 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on March 03, 2012, 11:03:37 PM
I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile :dunno:According to what I heard years ago, when they allowed Archers to take antlerless again for all of September (after it was closed, then half season)..it was some private landowners that bought some (european Fallow Deer) , and native deer got infected so they increased the season to attempt to control the spread..
but you know how rumours go...
Post by: Wacenturion on March 03, 2012, 11:11:25 PM
I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile :dunno:
Heck, if that doesn't work, they can blame Bush. :chuckle:
Post by: colockumelk on March 04, 2012, 05:15:20 AM
Wow new born fawn. Isn't it a little early for fawns? :dunno:
This is what happens when you have an extremely low buck to doe ratio. Does that are not bred the first time will come into heat again a month later, if not need they will come into heat a month later.
But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything. :bash: The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.
Post by: biggdogg on March 04, 2012, 06:45:06 AM
Post by: coachcw on March 04, 2012, 09:54:27 AM
Post by: Dslayer on March 04, 2012, 06:35:15 PM
Post by: fish vacuum on March 05, 2012, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: jdurham on March 05, 2012, 03:45:39 AM
that small fawn must have been bread really late last year. I dont see why taking any doe's out will help rebound numbers , if the late fawns make it they make it .I read an article by Dr. Deer, James Kroll. He says that when there are too many does they do cycle for another 2 months. He says this is a huge factor in buck mortality, especially in regions with harsher winter climates. He claims the bucks actually wear themselves down to a point they can't recover from. One rut, all the does covered so the bucks have a better chance to recover the stress breeding puts on them. Makes sense to me.
Post by: coachcw on March 05, 2012, 06:39:03 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 05, 2012, 06:43:34 AM
It's close to the time when deer start shedding their winter coats. Could be hair slip, but hope it's spring shedding.
:yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on March 05, 2012, 07:27:19 AM
Quote
But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything. The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.
Instead of thinning out does they need to encourage recruitment of bucks. Shutting down or limiting antlered deer harvest...HOWEVER because of local tribal practices this won't work. I don't want this to be another tribal thread, however, when one group of folks think they are outside of wildlife management do to "religious" reasons or "tradition", then what can you do. It is their legal right eventhough it is contributing to the decline of the herd. Easy winter for game only means easy access. The deer would be better off if there was 4 feet of snow.
Post by: norsepeak on March 05, 2012, 07:52:02 AM
Quote
Instead of thinning out does they need to encourage recruitment of bucks. Shutting down or limiting antlered deer harvest...HOWEVER because of local tribal practices this won't work. I don't want this to be another tribal thread, however, when one group of folks think they are outside of wildlife management do to "religious" reasons or "tradition", then what can you do. It is their legal right eventhough it is contributing to the decline of the herd. Easy winter for game only means easy access. The deer would be better off if there was 4 feet of snow.
:yeah:
Post by: muleyguy on March 05, 2012, 09:45:29 PM
Quote
This is what happens when you have an extremely low buck to doe ratio. Does that are not bred the first time will come into heat again a month later, if not need they will come into heat a month later.
low buck to doe ratio is a problem, so is the age structure of the buck population........15 years of APR's in these units has decimated the age structure;
Quote
But good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything. The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.
as was stated above, the solution is not to thin out does to get the ratio better; the herds in these units are not even close to the carrying capacity of the habitat;
the solution is to recruit more bucks into the population and to recruit more mature bucks into the population; this will result in a healthier more balanced population with mature bucks doing the breeding; not 1.5 yr old bucks; that is the legacy of the 3pt or better rules in this unit for 15 yrs;;
all that is left in these units post hunting season are 1.5 yr old bucks, because, that is the age population that is protected by the 3pt or better rules;
it is a tough goal in these units to try and raise the number of bucks and age structure though because of the tribal pressure; if you increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the bucks, the tribal pressure just increases; this is why the WDFW abandoned the special draw in 342; it was just a tribal free for all in that unit.
the above statement is not anti-tribal, it is just the facts.
no easy solutions for those units; but, at the end of the day, while it frustrates all of us, the best solution is limit the harvest enough to recruit more bucks into the population and to get a better age structure going, and deal with the tribal issue as best you can; road closures, a public relations campaign and trying to work with the tribe on self-enforcement might slow the tribal problem down enough to allow the herd to recover.
get rid of any and all doe tags(no matter the weapon choice), get rid of the APR's; and go to a limited draw again; not what anybody wants to hear, and ,yes, tribal problems will go up.
BUT, going down the path that these units are currently on is a dead end road..........and it is likely we will never see this herd recover in our lifetime without drastic measures being taken.
Post by: predatorpro on March 05, 2012, 09:55:55 PM
LOL dont give them any ideas....I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile :dunno:
Heck, if that doesn't work, they can blame Bush. :chuckle:
Post by: GrainfedMuley on March 07, 2012, 10:45:33 AM
especially when the deer numbers were starting to rebound a little bit.
Not with a growing wolf population...........
Post by: buckfvr on March 07, 2012, 11:01:15 AM
I think you guys are backwards......gestation is 190 to 200 days. If you back up 6plus months from a spotted fawn seen recently, and guess it was born in february....the doe would have had to been bred in august, maybe end of july.that small fawn must have been bread really late last year. I dont see why taking any doe's out will help rebound numbers , if the late fawns make it they make it .I read an article by Dr. Deer, James Kroll. He says that when there are too many does they do cycle for another 2 months. He says this is a huge factor in buck mortality, especially in regions with harsher winter climates. He claims the bucks actually wear themselves down to a point they can't recover from. One rut, all the does covered so the bucks have a better chance to recover the stress breeding puts on them. Makes sense to me.
Second and third estrus cycles would be in dec and january resulting in july and august births. It may be the results of a very unusual indivual deer.
Post by: lokidog on March 07, 2012, 11:07:28 AM
I was told that wild turkeys caired the lice ? my guess is that the wdfw wouldn't point towards turkeys . i dont see to many fallow deer in the nile :dunno:
Most lice are species specific. Some can infest similar species but rarely effect animals that are not the same type. For example, duck lice will not infest a person.
Post by: ribka on March 07, 2012, 08:38:08 PM
both units could put out some really nice bucks. Shame this state is not interested in good management of it's game herds.
Good input Muley guy
QuoteThis is what happens when you have an extremely low buck to doe ratio. Does that are not bred the first time will come into heat again a month later, if not need they will come into heat a month later.
low buck to doe ratio is a problem, so is the age structure of the buck population........15 years of APR's in these units has decimated the age structure;QuoteBut good thing they don't give out doe permits since that wouldn't solve anything. The biggest problem with that deer herd is the buck to doe ratio. In the LT Murray in the winter I will see over 100 deer a day. Maybe 2 or 3 will be bucks. And the bucks I see are usually small. They need to thin out some does in there.
as was stated above, the solution is not to thin out does to get the ratio better; the herds in these units are not even close to the carrying capacity of the habitat;
the solution is to recruit more bucks into the population and to recruit more mature bucks into the population; this will result in a healthier more balanced population with mature bucks doing the breeding; not 1.5 yr old bucks; that is the legacy of the 3pt or better rules in this unit for 15 yrs;;
all that is left in these units post hunting season are 1.5 yr old bucks, because, that is the age population that is protected by the 3pt or better rules;
it is a tough goal in these units to try and raise the number of bucks and age structure though because of the tribal pressure; if you increase the number of bucks and the age structure of the bucks, the tribal pressure just increases; this is why the WDFW abandoned the special draw in 342; it was just a tribal free for all in that unit.
the above statement is not anti-tribal, it is just the facts.
no easy solutions for those units; but, at the end of the day, while it frustrates all of us, the best solution is limit the harvest enough to recruit more bucks into the population and to get a better age structure going, and deal with the tribal issue as best you can; road closures, a public relations campaign and trying to work with the tribe on self-enforcement might slow the tribal problem down enough to allow the herd to recover.
get rid of any and all doe tags(no matter the weapon choice), get rid of the APR's; and go to a limited draw again; not what anybody wants to hear, and ,yes, tribal problems will go up.
BUT, going down the path that these units are currently on is a dead end road..........and it is likely we will never see this herd recover in our lifetime without drastic measures being taken.
Post by: bobcat on March 07, 2012, 08:54:52 PM
Limited draw in 340 and 342 and put up gates from NOV to May. No motorized vehicles. If tribal wants to hunt can walk or ride horses into hunting areas.
:yeah:
Post by: EDT on March 07, 2012, 08:57:25 PM
Post by: sweetlou on March 09, 2012, 06:36:30 PM
A lot with fur disease around where i live also.
Post by: Co on March 11, 2012, 11:09:16 AM
clockum are you saying that the fawn is actually from not this past rut but from the previous rut? not quite understanding that part of the post. If so can u explain in more detail I find that hard to believe.
Its very RARE, but does happen I have heard and read. A doe can go into es-tress at any time of the year, and a buck will take advantage.
Post by: Smith_22 on March 12, 2012, 11:07:02 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi299.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm307%2Fstevesmith_22%2Fdoeyrlng.jpg&hash=87933c7c604232cfb6be63bab0bef7c156bfc96c)
Post by: steen on March 17, 2012, 09:38:35 AM
Post by: Turner89 on March 17, 2012, 10:16:51 AM
:yeah:Limited draw in 340 and 342 and put up gates from NOV to May. No motorized vehicles. If tribal wants to hunt can walk or ride horses into hunting areas.
:yeah:
Post by: iusmc2002 on March 17, 2012, 11:21:12 AM
Is this what you've been seeing Naches? I have been seeing a lot the past few weeks too...is this the lice or shedding the winter coat? Only the yearlings seem to have it going on...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi299.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm307%2Fstevesmith_22%2Fdoeyrlng.jpg&hash=87933c7c604232cfb6be63bab0bef7c156bfc96c)
I just jumped on here real quick because I was going to post about this subject. We have a fawn in the back yard that has absolutely no hair on its sides, and has very little along the spine or neck. It looks like this picture only much worse. The hair it has is very pale, almost blond. How sick is this thing. None of the other 12-15 deer we have around the house, bucks included, have anything resembling this. Why would one fawn have it, but not the other from the same doe, and why wouldn't the other fawn twins have it?