Post by: wags on March 04, 2012, 09:51:25 AM
This State pretty much sucks. That's why I now chose to spend most of my outdoors $$ in other states.
Post by: JakeLand on March 04, 2012, 10:50:43 AM
Post by: christopheri on March 04, 2012, 10:54:59 AM
Here's a new one from our esteemed WDFW. I just heard from a friend that he met a WDFW agent in the field who threatened to cite him for using bait while trapping, since a WAC says it's illegal to "feed wildlife". Therefore, if the animal is eating your bait you are feeding it. Sounds like we better ban bird feeders, power bait, worms, salt blocks, food plots, etc, etc.Show me the WAC. I cant find it. :dunno:
This State pretty much sucks. That's why I now chose to spend most of my outdoors $$ in other states.
Post by: fast60eddie on March 04, 2012, 11:00:20 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 04, 2012, 11:07:51 AM
Here's a new one from our esteemed WDFW. I just heard from a friend that he met a WDFW agent in the field who threatened to cite him for using bait while trapping, since a WAC says it's illegal to "feed wildlife". Therefore, if the animal is eating your bait you are feeding it. Sounds like we better ban bird feeders, power bait, worms, salt blocks, food plots, etc, etc.
This State pretty much sucks. That's why I now chose to spend most of my outdoors $$ in other states.
So do we have another anti, greenie, wolf & bunny hugging mole (OOPS...forgot libbie!) trying to impose their beliefs on us, or is this actually true. (what they said)
Looks like it might be one of those folks that needs a different job.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 04, 2012, 11:59:10 AM
Post by: bugs n bones on March 04, 2012, 12:04:09 PM
The only animal you CAN NOT BAIT IS BEAR !!!!! THATS IT :dunno: But if we keep talking about it , it will all be illegal shortly ......Shhhhhhh.This is correct!!
Post by: wags on March 04, 2012, 12:31:29 PM
Upon further thought I think the agent doesn't know the regs either. The trapping regulation that says "exposed meat bait may not be placed within 30 feet of a trap if it is exposed to flying raptors" implies that it is o.k. to use bait. And it would be assumed that if it's at least 30 feet from the trap the animal may "feed" on it (or closer than 30 feet if not exposed to flying raptors).
As far as keeping quite about this incident, I don't agree; it's the WDFW agent that claused the initial conflict. If I see intimidation, abuse of power, or making up laws as they go, I'm going to call them out on it. Let the chips fall where they may. Keeping quite about government wrong-doing never results in good (even if you agree with what they are doing).
Mark
Post by: bearpaw on March 04, 2012, 01:21:01 PM
The only animal you CAN NOT BAIT IS BEAR !!!!! THATS IT :dunno: But if we keep talking about it , it will all be illegal shortly ......Shhhhhhh.
Plus game birds and waterfowl.
Post by: Machias on March 04, 2012, 01:59:07 PM
You can use bait to trap, I'm betting it was a misunderstanding.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 04, 2012, 02:06:50 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 04, 2012, 02:58:02 PM
Actually you can bait bears all you want, just can't hunt them over bait or use the bait to attract them for hunting.
You can use bait to trap, I'm betting it was a misunderstanding.
I would agree, probably a misunderstanding.
Post by: fast60eddie on March 04, 2012, 03:10:35 PM
:yeah:The only animal you CAN NOT BAIT IS BEAR !!!!! THATS IT :dunno: But if we keep talking about it , it will all be illegal shortly ......Shhhhhhh.
Plus game birds and waterfowl.
Post by: wags on March 04, 2012, 03:13:24 PM
Post by: boneaddict on March 04, 2012, 03:26:09 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 04, 2012, 03:45:13 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 04, 2012, 03:52:55 PM
It is not illegal to leave trail cameras on public land (to include USFS, DFW, or DNR). Baiting for deer and elk is not illegal either.
USFS can cite for state violations by using the federal venue as they have essentially incorporated our laws by reference (see 36 CFR 261.8a – State law violations occurring on Federal property……abbreviated title). Forest Service Law Enforcement Officers are also considered ex officio State Fish and Wildlife Officers and can address violations of state fish and wildlife regulations in a local venue. Generally, violations of state law are referred to our Officers.
Hope this helps. – OG
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 04, 2012, 04:15:28 PM
I just got off the phone with the trapper who had the incident with the agent. There were apparently calls made back and forth since my first post. The agent is now conceding that there isn't a state law that would disallow the use of bait, but the agent said there is a law against feeding wildlife on forest service lands and he could have the forest service cop write him a ticket. I think the agent is blowing smoke. The Federal Government does not have the authority to set hunting/trapping/fishing seasons or means and methods. That is left to the States. There are a couple of exceptions; such as for migratory birds. I would chalk incident this up to: a young, new, over-zealous agent.
That needs to be in a different line of work. If he writes it, you will have to go to court. No money lost there, eh?
Post by: Humptulips on March 04, 2012, 10:28:41 PM
Next time ask him to quote the statute.
Here is what the law says from: ( I highlighted the applicable section.)
WAC 232-12-141
(1) The trapping season authorizes the taking of furbearing animals for their hides and pelts only. Furbearers may not be taken from the wild and held alive for sale or personal use without a special permit pursuant to WAC 232-12-064.
(2) Any wildlife trapped for which the season is not open shall be released unharmed. Any wildlife that cannot be released unharmed must be left in the trap, and the department of fish and wildlife must be notified immediately.
(3) Lawfully trapped wild animals must be lethally dispatched or immediately released. A firearm may be used to dispatch trapped animals.
(4) It is unlawful to trap for wild animals:
(a) With body-gripping traps, EXCEPT as provided for in subsection (b).
(b) Conibear-type traps in water, nonstrangling foot snares, and padded foot-hold traps may be used for the following purposes with a permit issued by the director:
(i) To protect public health and safety, in consultation with the department of social and health services or the United States Department of Health and Human Services.
(ii) To abate damages caused to private property, domestic animals, livestock or timber, that cannot be reasonably abated by nonlethal control tools. Any person requesting a damage control permit must apply in writing, stating the threat or damages, the nonlethal control methods attempted or why they cannot be applied, and agree to use the above traps for no more than thirty days under the permit granted.
(iii) To protect threatened or endangered species, if such traps are used by department employees or agents.
(iv) To conduct wildlife research, EXCEPT that Conibear-type traps are prohibited for this purpose.
(c) Unless kill traps are checked and animals removed within seventy-two hours.
(d) Unless animals captured in restraining traps (any nonkilling set) are removed within twenty-four hours of capture.
(e) Using game birds, game fish or game animals for bait, except nonedible parts of game birds, game fish or game animals may be used as bait. (f) Within thirty feet of any exposed meat bait or nonedible game parts which are visible to flying raptors.
(5) Game bird feathers may be used as an attractor.
Post by: UrbanTrapper on March 28, 2012, 06:47:13 PM
2. Would it be illegal to use a live non-game fish in a submerged otter cage trap?
Post by: Humptulips on March 28, 2012, 07:39:09 PM
1. Where does it say baiting for deer is illegal?
2. Would it be illegal to use a live non-game fish in a submerged otter cage trap?
Baiting deer is legal from what I understand.
Interesting thought on the live fish. I have thought about it but never pursued the idea. Thought I would look and see what you could use.
Here is the list of game fish.
rock bass
lake white fish
blue catfish
black bullhead
yellow bullhead
brown bullhead
channel catfish
green sunfish
pumpkinseed
warmouth
bluegill
burbot or freshwater ling
smallmouth bass
largemouth bass
kokanee or silver trout
yellow perch
white crappie
black crappie
mountain white fish
golden trout
cutthroat trout
rainbow or steelhead trout
Atlantic salmon
brown trout
eastern brook trout
Dolly Varden trout
lake trout
Walleye
arctic grayling
(2) Private sector cultured aquatic products as defined in RCW 15.85.020 are not game fish
Here's how the law reads:
(4) It is unlawful to trap for wild animals:
(e) Using game birds, game fish or game animals for bait, except nonedible parts of game birds, game fish or game animals may be used as bait.
It would seem if it is not on that list you would be good to go.
A lot of fish are defined as food fish but it would seem to be legal to use food fish for bait. They would have to be legally taken.
I find it strange as I thought it would be illegal to use something like a King salmon or sturgeon or even a crawfish. But it looks to me like they would be legal to use as bait alive or dead.
Feel free to set me straight if I'm wrong.
Post by: bigtex on March 28, 2012, 08:42:22 PM
The Federal Government does not have the authority to set hunting/trapping/fishing seasons or means and methods. That is left to the States. There are a couple of exceptions; such as for migratory birds. I would chalk this incident up to: a young, new, over-zealous agent.
100% INCORRECT.
Federal agencies can decide laws and regulations regarding to trapping/fishing/hunting on their lands. For example, while coyote hunting is open statewide, it is closed on USFWS refuges in WA.
If the USFS wanted to they could ban hunting or methods of hunting on their lands, and in some areas in the country they have restricted hunting access, mainly due to public safety issues.
So to say that the feds have no control over hunting methods/seasons is incorrect.
Post by: pnwmtnmn on May 14, 2012, 08:58:18 AM
The Game Warden said he could have the forest service cop write him a ticket.
You are citing US Fish and Wildlife Services different entity. The USFWS in Washington does not allow ANY trapping on any of the refuges in the State. They call in the USDA trappers if they need help.
Post by: bearpaw on May 14, 2012, 09:19:58 AM
1. Where does it say baiting for deer is illegal?
You can legally bait deer.... :tup: