Hunting Washington Forum
Other Activities => Fishing => Topic started by: TheHunt on March 05, 2012, 08:20:32 AM
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http://nwwildcountry.com/index.html (http://nwwildcountry.com/index.html)
Check out the picture... This dude is a professional.
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Doensn't matter.
1. Its a nice fish
2. It was only for a moment
3. It was released
:chuckle:
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I hear wailing fish police sirens,veins popping out,red faces,right about,,,,,,
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No net marks on it or seal bites, so it probably will be fine.
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What am I missing? Is it illegal to take a picture of a native before releasing it back into the water? Are you supposed to cut your line as soon as you realize it is not a hatchery fish?
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What am I missing? Is it illegal to take a picture of a native before releasing it back into the water? Are you supposed to cut your line as soon as you realize it is not a hatchery fish?
Yes....as long as it's on a river with mandatory wild fish release.
No you don't have to cut your line, just leave the fish in the water and unhook it. Should be easy to do...barbless hook and all.
:dunno:
Don't know what would be difficult about it. People got to have those glory shots though...
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Do we know where he was fishing? It may be legal on that river, just sayin. :dunno:
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I have been hammered in the past and one of the cast of KJR ripped me. I think it is kind of funny that a picture of a fish out of the water was on their web site. So I guess if you are one of the in crowd at KJR you get a pass of doing that. If you are an average joe you get ripped.
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I know what you are saying and I agree with you. I don't think it should be allowed anywhere in the state. I just did not want someone to assume it was illegal when we don't know the location. I also agre that those guys and some other local fishing "proffesionals" seem to get passes for doing things you and I would get reamed for doing.
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Do we know where he was fishing? It may be legal on that river, just sayin. :dunno:
Right...thats why I said what I said.
Yes....as long as it's on a river with mandatory wild fish release.
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could have been a BC or oregon fish, or could have been an old pic :twocents: i dont see what peoples problem is with this law? its really not that hard to leave them in the water, it can make for some rather cool pics too. it keeps people from dragging them up on the rocks and in the sand, is that a bad thing?
since i dont agree with apr's im gonna shoot the first 2 point muley i see this year, no different.
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Unless theres something saying that its a washington fish its totally legal in bc oregon and idaho... flip through an sts mag and youll see wild fish out of the water all over the place
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Not legal to pull a Salmon or Steelhead out of the water that you are going to release in Oregon as well. At least down where I grew up on the south coast it's illegal to pull them out of the water.
Refer to page 33 pg the Oregon Reg's.
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I found another picture of a Native out of water.... it's becoming an epidemic...
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I found another picture of a Native out of water.... it's becoming an epidemic...
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: My other name is, Dances with Salmon! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I found another picture of a Native out of water.... it's becoming an epidemic...
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: My other name is, Dances with Salmon! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:chuckle:
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I found another picture of a Native out of water.... it's becoming an epidemic...
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: My other name is, Dances with Salmon! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle:
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Nice fish, I would have done the same thing. Thats a great picture and probably taken on a river where it is legal... being that he is a "professional" such as the Quinalt.
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What am I missing? Is it illegal to take a picture of a native before releasing it back into the water? Are you supposed to cut your line as soon as you realize it is not a hatchery fish?
Yes....as long as it's on a river with mandatory wild fish release.
No you don't have to cut your line, just leave the fish in the water and unhook it. Should be easy to do...barbless hook and all.
:dunno:
Don't know what would be difficult about it. People got to have those glory shots though...
Thanks, I didn't know. I haven't spent much time fishing the past 10 years. Makes sense I guess.
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I personally like the law, and I have been known to say something if people don't handle fish correctly. The law is a pain sometimes and makes getting a good photo a little more difficult, but I can't stand watching people drag a fish up on the beach and taking their sweet time to unhook it only to give it the boot back into the river because it is wild. Makes me want to give those same people the boot back into the river. The law was put in place because fishmen are unable to police themselves and take care of a struggling resource.
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He could have knocked the eyeballs out of it. :yike:
Then You would have something to whine about.. :sry: just saying..
:chuckle:
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Just another reason i don't bother fishing anymore.
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And whine I would!
I realize that it is legal to kill natives in 8 rivers, but that doesn't make it right (in my opinion). WDFW is mismanaging those rivers to the point that they are going to end up closed like a lot of the state's rivers.
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Whats native about them anymore. It's part of the 80%+ that get released from a hatchery unclipped. I could be fishing next to a Native and he would thump it on the head. I would have to baby it, keep it in the water and release it. Just saying! When the next law is passed due to some elbow rubbing, envelope with cash or donations sent to your charitable organization. Some science, more political. Local anglers wont stand up to the commercial guys or indians, so it won't get better. Just saying. :dunno:
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Whats native about them anymore. It's part of the 80%+ that get released from a hatchery unclipped. I could be fishing next to a Native and he would thump it on the head. I would have to baby it, keep it in the water and release it. Just saying! When the next law is passed due to some elbow rubbing, envelope with cash or donations sent to your charitable organization. Some science, more political. Local anglers wont stand up to the commercial guys or indians, so it won't get better. Just saying. :dunno:
Not sure where you got your info, but most of it is dead wrong. Genetic studies have shown that many runs, including on the OP, have genetically different native fish. They are genetically proven to be different.
I also have no idea where you got the statistic that 80% of the fish released from the hatcheries are unclipped. Fairly sure there is no support for either of your factual assertions. Just sayin'!
Also, it isn't that local anglers won't stand up to commercials and Indians. Much the same as hunting, sportsmen don't have much say against the treaty tribes. Commercials are a fairly well protected special interest group, and don't fish for these fish anyway. Not sure how commercials are even relevant to this discussion?
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the vast majority of all hatchery steelhead are clipped in this state, unless you're fishing the quinault(you need a guide there anyway), or the queets(you can keep unclipped hatchery fish as long as the dorsal height is less than 2 1/2"). there is no non-tribal commercial fishing in this state for steelhead, and you'll never get the tribes off the water. they have treaty rights, it would be like trying to get hunters to give up their guns: it ain't gonna happen.
sport kill hasn't helped steelhead any in this state, but it's not the only issue at hand. the only upside to it is that it gives us an allocation of the fish - if we don't kill them all they get to hit the gravel to spawn. if we made it CNR only on the peninsula, the tribes would get even more netting time because they get to use "forgone opportunity" to take the share that we try to designate to spawn. the problem is there's too many guys that don't care, or believe idiotic sentiments like "if i don't kill it the indians will"(which is flat out *censored*, because the majority of sport fishermen catch fish after they've gotten past the nets).
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:tup:
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the vast majority of all hatchery steelhead are clipped in this state, unless you're fishing the quinault(you need a guide there anyway), or the queets(you can keep unclipped hatchery fish as long as the dorsal height is less than 2 1/2"). there is no non-tribal commercial fishing in this state for steelhead, and you'll never get the tribes off the water. they have treaty rights, it would be like trying to get hunters to give up their guns: it ain't gonna happen.
sport kill hasn't helped steelhead any in this state, but it's not the only issue at hand. the only upside to it is that it gives us an allocation of the fish - if we don't kill them all they get to hit the gravel to spawn. if we made it CNR only on the peninsula, the tribes would get even more netting time because they get to use "forgone opportunity" to take the share that we try to designate to spawn. the problem is there's too many guys that don't care, or believe idiotic sentiments like "if i don't kill it the indians will"(which is flat out *censored*, because the majority of sport fishermen catch fish after they've gotten past the nets).
Do you know how much more "foregone opportunity" the tribes would get if we went to all CnR? I know we use a portion of our share with assumed mortality...
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Looks like there are two natives out of the water on that front page.
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I have a problem with this rule they are imposing! I can understand that hey dragging a fish up on shore and than kicking it back into the water is not good at all but I have been in some situations where I have to bring the fish on board for the safety of my crew on the boat! I fish on the Columbia and the Snake and Clearwater rivers some times when I am fishing the Snake it is in the Washington boundaries but most of the time it is not. Anyways back to my point in rough water out in a boat it makes more sense to me to net the fish and bring it into the vessel and than release back into the water. Why because I don't want to risk having a customer or a crew member fall into the river because the boat was tossed by a rouge wave to me the life of another human being is more important that some fine.
B_C
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This subject is a JOKE. Until the netting stops we should be able to take one out for a pic. I guess all washington fish in pics were caught in another state.lol. I think that pic rocks. Nice fish. Just post em up and dont annouce when and where. ;)
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Yup, we should all pick and choose what rules to follow. :rolleyes:
I see this one getting locked soon...
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He banked three steelhead three steelhead that weighted over 20 lbs in one day.
That is pretty amazing.. It was in Washington in the OP. He said he was not guided in the interview. So he was not in the native waters...
So that shows you two different rules for two different folks.
Next time I see the dude that ripped me I am calling him on the carpet.
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Who might you be talking about ripping you. I didnt see anything that was even close to a rip. :dunno:
Just wondering if my little comment is what your refering to. :o
:sry: :yike:
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There is good discussion here, from both sides. Please keep it civil so there is no reason to lock it and shut another topic down on the same subject.
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Wow, that red lettering really messes with my eyes. :yike:
I am with RP-RT, I don't see the harm in taking a quick pic like that and releasing the fish. :twocents:
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It think people take things way to far :dunno:
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What the heck just bonk them on the head and take them home if people are going to keep making a big deal about taking them out of the water for a quick pic. It doesn't hurt the fish to be out of the water for 3 seconds.
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Wow, that red lettering really messes with my eyes. :yike:
I am with RP-RT, I don't see the harm in taking a quick pic like that and releasing the fish. :twocents:
That happens when you get old :sas: :chuckle:
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I think the reason this rule has been put in place is because of ignorance on the part of some anglers. Like alot of other things there are a few people who would bank the fish then dig through their backpack find their camera and take alot of time with the fish out of water, these are the people the law is intended for. If you have your camera ready and just take it out of the water for a few seconds for a picture I dont see any problems with it. I do not take fish out of the water though as I dont want to get a ticket, as long as you just leave a fin or the mouth touching the water you are legal.
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I think what gets people fired up is the idea that it is a stupid rule and I get to ignore it. A responsible person can land a fish, get a pic, and turn it loose with very little harm to the fish. Shoot, the pic from the other thread depictrd exactly that. However, when you say it is fine to di when the regs say otherwise people get a little vocal. When one sounds like they believe they get to pick and choose which regs to follow it paints them in an untrue light. I may think the 4pt min or 3 pt min is silly but I cant go out and whack a trophy 2pt mulie. So....from what ive seen in the discussio we all can agree that a fish can be hoisted and photographed quickly. I think we also agree that we cant pick and choose which regs we want to follow. Regardless of opinion, that is the regulation and it should be upheld.
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I think what gets people fired up is the idea that it is a stupid rule and I get to ignore it. A responsible person can land a fish, get a pic, and turn it loose with very little harm to the fish. Shoot, the pic from the other thread depictrd exactly that. However, when you say it is fine to di when the regs say otherwise people get a little vocal. When one sounds like they believe they get to pick and choose which regs to follow it paints them in an untrue light. I may think the 4pt min or 3 pt min is silly but I cant go out and whack a trophy 2pt mulie. So....from what ive seen in the discussio we all can agree that a fish can be hoisted and photographed quickly. I think we also agree that we cant pick and choose which regs we want to follow. Regardless of opinion, that is the regulation and it should be upheld.
:yeah: well put!
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The regs will be great in another 5-10 years. WDFW will be ran by conservation group loyalist, the tribes or DNR. The regs will be a 100 page book that is so wordy you will need legal to interpret it. :tup:
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Wow, that red lettering really messes with my eyes. :yike:
I am with RP-RT, I don't see the harm in taking a quick pic like that and releasing the fish. :twocents:
That happens when you get old :sas: :chuckle:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=10994)
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Re: Native out of the water
« Reply #23 on: Today at 12:40:57 PM »Whats native about them anymore. It's part of the 80%+ that get released from a hatchery unclipped. I could be fishing next to a Native and he would thump it on the head. I would have to baby it, keep it in the water and release it. Just saying! When the next law is passed due to some elbow rubbing, envelope with cash or donations sent to your charitable organization. Some science, more political. Local anglers wont stand up to the commercial guys or indians, so it won't get better. Just saying. Logged
I wonder if more like 80% of the nats at some point have been mixed with a hatchery fish? What happens to the hatchery fish that do not make it into the hatchery? My thoughts are that they have to spawn and the most logical fish to spawn with is a native or another hatchery and the offspring come back as native fish. I have caught alot of nats around hatcheries that sure had the same look as the hatchery fish that I had just caught.
My personal thought is that the majority of all native fish at some point has been contaminated by a hathery. If alot of people have their way all rivers will get rid of hatcheries and go back to native runs.
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the offspring of native and hatchery fish interbreeding have survival rates that are so low the wild fish might as well have not even returned to the river to spawn.
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the vast majority of all hatchery steelhead are clipped in this state, unless you're fishing the quinault(you need a guide there anyway), or the queets(you can keep unclipped hatchery fish as long as the dorsal height is less than 2 1/2"). there is no non-tribal commercial fishing in this state for steelhead, and you'll never get the tribes off the water. they have treaty rights, it would be like trying to get hunters to give up their guns: it ain't gonna happen.
sport kill hasn't helped steelhead any in this state, but it's not the only issue at hand. the only upside to it is that it gives us an allocation of the fish - if we don't kill them all they get to hit the gravel to spawn. if we made it CNR only on the peninsula, the tribes would get even more netting time because they get to use "forgone opportunity" to take the share that we try to designate to spawn. the problem is there's too many guys that don't care, or believe idiotic sentiments like "if i don't kill it the indians will"(which is flat out *censored*, because the majority of sport fishermen catch fish after they've gotten past the nets).
I cringe when I hear guys call "wild fish.....WILD..." They release a whole lot of hatchery fish unclipped. Lots! Here is what I was told directly from DFW about the percentage of clipped fish in this state; direct cut and paste from my old email on the topic...;
Thank you for your e-mail correspondence to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) Fish Program.
Currently 45% of hatchery salmon and steelhead are released without their adipose fin being clipped. WDFW adipose fin clips hatchery chinook, coho and steelhead and the percentages vary by region. In Puget Sound 83% are adipose fin clipped, the Washington Coast, 45% and the Columbia River 40%, giving a statewide average of 55% adipose fin clipped. WDFW is currently working toward mass marking fall chinook in the Columbia River and on the Washington Coast which will raise the statewide average to over 90%. Not all hatchery fish will be marked as some are used to help rebuild wildstocks. Not marking them prevents them from being harvested in selective fisheries and allows them to return to the streams to help rebuild these natural runs.
If you have further questions, please email again or call (360) 902-2700. Our Customer Service hours are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday.
Sincerely,
Fish Program
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And, I disagree with the rule. Hook up a fish, fight it in over gravel bars and tree trunks.... if one little lift out of the water for a pic is really that deadly maybe we should close it down...
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I agree....disagree all you want...im good with that. My point is we cant ignore the reg out of disagreement. Also, we should not support others when they dont folliw a reg we disagree with.
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Don't forget about the lawsuit against one of the local tribal hatcheries due to them not clipping any of the fish. The lost and were mandated to clip 25% of the fish. The real kicker is it was like 5% year 1, 10% year 2 and so on. They should have been 25% year 1 to start. What one group says and does is a different story. Only reason I say this is because I worked a few hatchery spots for a few years. But what do I know. Could be wrong as stated. :dunno:
Another great thing is when the state decides which runs should be in which river. Or consider what used to be native in a specific river and weed out other species of salmon to help a specific species. Were not talking about squaw fish. Kalama would be a great example.
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When one sounds like they believe they get to pick and choose which regs to follow it paints them in an untrue light.
Its a good thing nobody on this site is like that, can you imagine if people chose to ignore the posted speed limit? :nono:
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I have caught spawned out hatchery hens in mid to late march, now those smolt don't end up clipped. If the feds had it the way they wanted nobody would fish in a river where wild steelhead were present. Take the Yakima river for an example. Now a guy can't fish for whitefish below parker dam. And 6 to 9 thousand come up the river every year. I bet half the guys that would never keep a wild steelie wouldnt think twice about cutting the gills on a keeper sturgeon. Not many hatchery sturgeon out there. Two seconds out of the water isn't going to kill a (native) fish.
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who cares... fishing is all about fun and memorys..why can some snap a photo of a fish? :dunno:
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Not only does taking a wild steelhead out of water for a few seconds kill the fish within minutes, it kills every wild steelhead within 100 yards! The only way to reverse this is getting on online threads and starting pissing matches. Keep up the good work!
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Not only does taking a wild steelhead out of water for a few seconds kill the fish within minutes, it kills every wild steelhead within 100 yards! The only way to reverse this is getting on online threads and starting pissing matches. Keep up the good work!
:yike: I didn't know that. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Not only does taking a wild steelhead out of water for a few seconds kill the fish within minutes, it kills every wild steelhead within 100 yards! The only way to reverse this is getting on online threads and starting pissing matches. Keep up the good work!
:chuckle:
It spreads like cancer and the whole river will then be sterile
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Kinda drifting off of the original intent of the OP, but I wanted to address some of your discussions about native versus non native. Though it would be nice if there wasn't such a need for a hatchery fish......
I would like to see any such evidence and there probably isn't any in regards to a hatchery mating with a native and it being sterile etc........ The whole part of these fish laying eggs in the stream and those fish hatching, growing, and making it back to the ocean over how many obstacles, living in the ocean, and returning 2 or 3 or 4 years later.... its called natural selection. The weak are culled out. Instincts of the take are there, etc. though its not a perfect wild fish mating with a wild fish, it is better than no fish at all. Its pretty logical really.
The RULE was put in place because of idiots...yep, we have even seen them on here. Holding the fish high above their head with their hands in the gill slot, eyes turned, blood dripping out.......or there are the solo guys, that have to have that pic, so they throw them up on the bank, dig the cell phone out, kickem back up on the bank.......
How do you suppose they could create a rule to deal with this stupidity. OH I know, make it so they can't come out of the water.
Its pretty easy to tell what is negligence and what isn't. Like the photo that was removed. There was water pouring off the fish....(ooooh is that a technicality ...fish out of the water, really, water is still touching him as its running off) :chuckle: anyways....
sure, there are those that are sticklers to the law, and how do you argue with that? I guess that is up to the WDFW and what they want to enforce. In the meantime, I have seen two nice fish that I am sure were released successfully, and my flamethrower is about as hot as a Bic lighter at the moment. I do have to agree that it is funny for that magazine to have that photo for all that they preach.
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All good points Bone.
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In the meantime, I have seen two nice fish that I am sure were released successfully, and my flamethrower is about as hot as a Bic lighter at the moment.
:chuckle:
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Kinda drifting off of the original intent of the OP, but I wanted to address some of your discussions about native versus non native. Though it would be nice if there wasn't such a need for a hatchery fish......
I would like to see any such evidence and there probably isn't any in regards to a hatchery mating with a native and it being sterile etc........ The whole part of these fish laying eggs in the stream and those fish hatching, growing, and making it back to the ocean over how many obstacles, living in the ocean, and returning 2 or 3 or 4 years later.... its called natural selection. The weak are culled out. Instincts of the take are there, etc. though its not a perfect wild fish mating with a wild fish, it is better than no fish at all. Its pretty logical really.
The RULE was put in place because of idiots...yep, we have even seen them on here. Holding the fish high above their head with their hands in the gill slot, eyes turned, blood dripping out.......or there are the solo guys, that have to have that pic, so they throw them up on the bank, dig the cell phone out, kickem back up on the bank.......
How do you suppose they could create a rule to deal with this stupidity. OH I know, make it so they can't come out of the water.
Its pretty easy to tell what is negligence and what isn't. Like the photo that was removed. There was water pouring off the fish....(ooooh is that a technicality ...fish out of the water, really, water is still touching him as its running off) :chuckle: anyways....
sure, there are those that are sticklers to the law, and how do you argue with that? I guess that is up to the WDFW and what they want to enforce. In the meantime, I have seen two nice fish that I am sure were released successfully, and my flamethrower is about as hot as a Bic lighter at the moment. I do have to agree that it is funny for that magazine to have that photo for all that they preach.
Here is the evidence you requested: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/318/5847/100
You can sign up for a free subsription to read the full study. Below is the abstract. The study shows that hatchery fish lose roughly 40% of their reproductive cabability per hatchery generation (first generation, i.e. broodstock fish, produce 40% less returning adults, second generation fish produce 80% less, etc.).
Abstract
Captive breeding is used to supplement populations of many species that are declining in the wild. The suitability of and long-term species survival from such programs remain largely untested, however. We measured lifetime reproductive success of the first two generations of steelhead trout that were reared in captivity and bred in the wild after they were released. By reconstructing a three-generation pedigree with microsatellite markers, we show that genetic effects of domestication reduce subsequent reproductive capabilities by ∼40% per captive-reared generation when fish are moved to natural environments. These results suggest that even a few generations of domestication may have negative effects on natural reproduction in the wild and that the repeated use of captive-reared parents to supplement wild populations should be carefully reconsidered.
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Not only does taking a wild steelhead out of water for a few seconds kill the fish within minutes, it kills every wild steelhead within 100 yards! The only way to reverse this is getting on online threads and starting pissing matches. Keep up the good work!
:yike: I didn't know that. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Great comment Old Dog ;-)
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:yeah:
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call me an outlaw but i was fishing the hoh this weekend and had i caught a dandy native i would have a picture of it and odds are it would be out of the water. was kinda wondering how that law works on the lower hoh where you can keep a native. i suppose you could take the fish out of the water because you are going to keep it, take a pic or two of it and then decide to release it :dunno:
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I have a friend of a friend who has an uncle who friends nephew was out fishing on the Hoh a week ago and he caught a dandy native he pulled it out of the water for a nice picture and before you know it the fish "accidentally" slipped out of his hands and back into the water to hit the spawning grounds! Or thats how he tells it! ;)
I think if you take the fish out of the water for a picture before you are going to bonk it and it some how ends up back in the water well its not your fault its divine intervention as far as I am concerned!
B_C
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I'm looking forward to going and setting-up my bear bait this weekend, I'm just really hopeful ill draw my spring bear tag for monroe this time!!! After all I don't agree with the law on baiting bears. Its stupid I can choose to release bears unharmed or pick the right one. I mean its a really stupid rule, why should I have to follow it?
Just sayin.....
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I'm looking forward to going and setting-up my bear bait this weekend, I'm just really hopeful ill draw my spring bear tag for monroe this time!!! After all I don't agree with the law on baiting bears. Its stupid I can choose to release bears unharmed or pick the right one. I mean its a really stupid rule, why should I have to follow it?
Just sayin.....
I don't think people are looking to pick the right one when it comes to a native. They just want a quick picture. Its like a person sticking there head under water, we can hold are breath right :chuckle: . Why can't the fish hold there breath and be kind enough to let us take a pic. :chuckle:
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I love this site... So many smart butts not too many people taking it too seriously.
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I just want a quick pic of a spring bear too. Its no different!
This law was made because of all the people out there (and on here for that matter) who will drag a fish up on the bank and let it roll in the sand, dig for their cam, put a couple fingers in the gills, and sling it back in the river. The actions of a few ruin it for all. If you think people aren't looking for the "right one" your wrong. There are admitted native bonkers out there and here on this site, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
My point is rules are rules, put up a pic of a 2pt mulie or a bear by a bait on this site and see what happens.
If this is such a bad thing where were you all when "sparky" was getting this law kickin? Did you write or attend meetings?
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I just want a quick pic of a spring bear too. Its no different!
This law was made because of all the people out there (and on here for that matter) who will drag a fish up on the bank and let it roll in the sand, dig for their cam, put a couple fingers in the gills, and sling it back in the river. The actions of a few ruin it for all. If you think people aren't looking for the "right one" your wrong. There are admitted native bonkers out there and here on this site, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
My point is rules are rules, put up a pic of a 2pt mulie or a bear by a bait on this site and see what happens.
If this is such a bad thing where were you all when "sparky" was getting this law kickin? Did you write or attend meetings?
This doesn't fly. This is like comparing murder to driving 5 miles over the speed limit! Yes they are both crimes but.........really?
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I don't think its different at all. I don't believe in banning bear bait or apr's for mulies, why should I have to follow those rules?
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Button that looks like a native cutthroat out of the water as your avatar? :o
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i think if done quickly there's no problem as long as the fish is not totally exhausted. one of the reasons why that rule exsists is because people would drag it up on the bank let roll around then decide to get thier camera out kick it around alittle bit pick it up take some pic's look at it plop it in the river and then it goes belly up i have witnessed other fisherman do this so i know it happens .my personal opinion i would just as soon catch a twenty pounder throw in the back of my truck next to other one go home happy with some good eating fish thats why i buy a licsense to fish thats why god put the animals and fish here on earth to eat.
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Thats great information WSU. Thankyou. I think where my mind is at though versus what you are saying is in teh words
captive-reared parents
or brood stock. I was thinking more along the lines of natural mating in the river, or returning hatchery fish mating with wilds. I'll need to read that some more to make sure they are not the same or that is different.
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Bone - The study is actually very interesting. They had the genetics off all steelhead in the river (hatchery and wild) since 1991 or thereabouts. The fish were passed over a dam and sampled. They then spawned in the river. The findings are for fish that were born in a hatchery for "x" generation and then spawn in the wild.
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Button that looks like a native cutthroat out of the water as your avatar? :o
Native out of water only pertains to salmon, steelhead, and Dolly Vardon/Bull trout!!!!
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this is the stupidest piss match thread ever. ill never show another pic of any steelys i catch on here ever. in the water, out of the water, in a space ship, at disney land. anywhere....... :P
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this is the stupidest piss match thread ever. ill never show another pic of any steelys i catch on here ever. in the water, out of the water, in a space ship, at disney land. anywhere....... :P
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I think the free time is getting to people :chuckle: I say get over it and move along
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Button that looks like a native cutthroat out of the water as your avatar? :o
look a little closer smart guy :tup:
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It can be done right.................just sayin! :tup: However, there are also just as many times if not more when capturing the "glory shot" is just not feasible. Like when I am by myself or the fish just doesn't cooperate. :) I like the fact that you guys are even talking about it on here. Although this state is FAR from getting this right, we have come a looooong way in educating people on the protection of wild steelhead.
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nice chrome!! :tup:
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GORGEOUS FISH!!
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wait? what? i thought they had to be out of the water to take a pic? you mean you can still take a pic when they are in the water? hmmm... wow.... im baffled....
that is a true toad! nice fish man!
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many, many , many years ago the steelhead trout was not commercialized there was an abundance of fish .So many infact it seemed it would always be that way. The limits were generous 3 fish a day hatcherey steelhead were unheard of. With the likes of Bob Heirman,Bob Bessic,Forest Herr,Emmett Anderson,John Fenton,Earl Averill and Louie Corti it was never who caught the most but who caught the biggest.You see back then you could natives out of the water take them home show them off and you were congratulated on such a tremendous catch, not ridiculed and bashed and treated like a crimnal for such an act. Of course the winter season here ran til march 31,if they we're not such big fish hogs there might be a few more today ,its the logging ,and other enviromental issues that started the decline then the nets in the rivers it was like returning to the old west.There would be guns drawn fist fights ,vandalism.All over the steelhead trout that would go to sea and return every 2 years ,or 3 and go back again..Soon there were hatcherey's popping up the dreaded farmed steelhead was now invented and at times contamenting the native runs.Now the native steelhead had no where to turn its mere exsistance was doomed.. I started winter steelheading 1975, on the pilchuck river ,and at reiter ponds later i treid summer run and fell in love with that head over heels fished the S.FStilly above granite 5 to 7 fish days were common hardly any pressure ,even when there was half the guys didnt know what they doing , another favorite was canyon creek. Now there are no fish whatever is left is so strictly regulated that it not even worth togo for me anymore .The glory days it was great to have 2 or 3 big NATES on thew beach.The nets have raped whatever was left from the poor logging practices the drifts and nice hole's are all filled in now nothing is left just the gentlle noise of the river flowing through what once was a true steelhead shang gri la.
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Thats is a perfect photo. What a gorgeous specimen!
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wait? what? i thought they had to be out of the water to take a pic? you mean you can still take a pic when they are in the water? hmmm... wow.... im baffled....
that is a true toad! nice fish man!
You just have to play them for 20 + minutes and wear them out. Then they hold nicely. And only go belly up down river. :yike:
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It can be done right.................just sayin! :tup: However, there are also just as many times if not more when capturing the "glory shot" is just not feasible. Like when I am by myself or the fish just doesn't cooperate. :) I like the fact that you guys are even talking about it on here. Although this state is FAR from getting this right, we have come a looooong way in educating people on the protection of wild steelhead.
Looks like a Calawah fish?
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It can be done right.................just sayin! :tup: However, there are also just as many times if not more when capturing the "glory shot" is just not feasible. Like when I am by myself or the fish just doesn't cooperate. :) I like the fact that you guys are even talking about it on here. Although this state is FAR from getting this right, we have come a looooong way in educating people on the protection of wild steelhead.
Looks like a Calawah fish?
No sir, but it is an OP fish :tup:
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I do not have a good camera so I will just snap some in the future and will post them up. Than we can all read the moans and groans. I have seen soooo many pictures if fish on other sites that are out of the water I do not think it is a big deal. Unless it is like others who have already stated the abuse of the fish. But just taking a picture and letting it go...
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Button that looks like a native cutthroat out of the water as your avatar? :o
Native out of water only pertains to salmon, steelhead, and Dolly Vardon/Bull trout!!!!
I know, just having some fun!!!!! :chuckle:
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beautiful fish there chsngstlhd.. would that have killed the fish if you took it about four more inches out of the water though :dunno:
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beautiful fish there chsngstlhd.. would that have killed the fish if you took it about four more inches out of the water though :dunno:
Of course not, I think this is a common sense thing. The rule is there so people are not dragging the fish 10' up the bank, dragging it on the rocks, etc.
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The debate here doesnt seem to be whether it is going to kill the fish by lifting it an extra 4"......the point most people are making is that there are laws in place....some choose to follow those laws......some choose to break those laws.....like them or not they are LAWS! As said before.....it only takes a few to ruin it for many........it isn't limited to fishing.....look at orv riding areas getting shut down or shooting areas.....a few bad seeds ruin it for those of us that take care of the areas we use! If you choose to break the law no matter how major (murder) or minor (lifting a native steelhead out of the water or speeding) you run the risk of getting caught. When you choose to speed when driving you are choosing to risk having to pay a ticket.....same choice when you break ANY law. :bdid:
Maybe those that disagree with the law to the point that they are willing to break it should fight the system to get the law changed :dunno:
It is possible to get a good picture while keeping the fish in the water......
Here is a couple of bad cell phone pics of better hard copies....
The larger fish is one that was photographed in the water and released....
The picture of the smaller fish was taken in the water for effect and the fish was kept and it was legal to do so as a hatchery fish. (for those who would flame me for using a net on a native)
Both good pics in my opinion.
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[smg id=10999]
12lb wild hen
[smg id=11000]
foggy lense :sry: 16lb wild hen. lost the biggest steelhead of my life (dwarfed her) the cast before in the same spot.
[smg id=11001]
hatcherys
[smg id=11002]
[smg id=11003]
[smg id=11004]
just some ideas :twocents:
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The debate here doesnt seem to be whether it is going to kill the fish by lifting it an extra 4"......the point most people are making is that there are laws in place....some choose to follow those laws......some choose to break those laws.....like them or not they are LAWS! As said before.....it only takes a few to ruin it for many........it isn't limited to fishing.....look at orv riding areas getting shut down or shooting areas.....a few bad seeds ruin it for those of us that take care of the areas we use! If you choose to break the law no matter how major (murder) or minor (lifting a native steelhead out of the water or speeding) you run the risk of getting caught. When you choose to speed when driving you are choosing to risk having to pay a ticket.....same choice when you break ANY law. :bdid:
Maybe those that disagree with the law to the point that they are willing to break it should fight the system to get the law changed :dunno:
It is possible to get a good picture while keeping the fish in the water......
Here is a couple of bad cell phone pics of better hard copies....
The larger fish is one that was photographed in the water and released....
The picture of the smaller fish was taken in the water for effect and the fish was kept and it was legal to do so as a hatchery fish. (for those who would flame me for using a net on a native)
Both good pics in my opinion.
lol next time i see him im gonna have to tell him theres pics of him floating around on the net! :chuckle:
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Eh....he is a lurker on here once in a while..... :chuckle:
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Interesting view jeep.
I feel dumber for reading that. Thanks, I think.
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:chuckle:
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kill em all! :rolleyes: :bash:
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many, many , many years ago the steelhead trout was not commercialized there was an abundance of fish .So many infact it seemed it would always be that way. The limits were generous 3 fish a day hatcherey steelhead were unheard of. With the likes of Bob Heirman,Bob Bessic,Forest Herr,Emmett Anderson,John Fenton,Earl Averill and Louie Corti it was never who caught the most but who caught the biggest.You see back then you could natives out of the water take them home show them off and you were congratulated on such a tremendous catch, not ridiculed and bashed and treated like a crimnal for such an act. Of course the winter season here ran til march 31,if they we're not such big fish hogs there might be a few more today ,its the logging ,and other enviromental issues that started the decline then the nets in the rivers it was like returning to the old west.There would be guns drawn fist fights ,vandalism.All over the steelhead trout that would go to sea and return every 2 years ,or 3 and go back again..Soon there were hatcherey's popping up the dreaded farmed steelhead was now invented and at times contamenting the native runs.Now the native steelhead had no where to turn its mere exsistance was doomed.. I started winter steelheading 1975, on the pilchuck river ,and at reiter ponds later i treid summer run and fell in love with that head over heels fished the S.FStilly above granite 5 to 7 fish days were common hardly any pressure ,even when there was half the guys didnt know what they doing , another favorite was canyon creek. Now there are no fish whatever is left is so strictly regulated that it not even worth togo for me anymore .The glory days it was great to have 2 or 3 big NATES on thew beach.The nets have raped whatever was left from the poor logging practices the drifts and nice hole's are all filled in now nothing is left just the gentlle noise of the river flowing through what once was a true steelhead shang gri la.
You're missing the biggest factor, dams. Just thought you should know,since you're so educated. The nets, logging, mismanagement, poor handling, genetic saturation by hatcheries fish, pollution, human expansion into pristine creeks, along with tons of other factors play their roll. The dams, by far, are the worst offender when it comes to the plight of the Steelhead. :tup:
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many, many , many years ago the steelhead trout was not commercialized there was an abundance of fish .So many infact it seemed it would always be that way. The limits were generous 3 fish a day hatcherey steelhead were unheard of. With the likes of Bob Heirman,Bob Bessic,Forest Herr,Emmett Anderson,John Fenton,Earl Averill and Louie Corti it was never who caught the most but who caught the biggest.You see back then you could natives out of the water take them home show them off and you were congratulated on such a tremendous catch, not ridiculed and bashed and treated like a crimnal for such an act. Of course the winter season here ran til march 31,if they we're not such big fish hogs there might be a few more today ,its the logging ,and other enviromental issues that started the decline then the nets in the rivers it was like returning to the old west.There would be guns drawn fist fights ,vandalism.All over the steelhead trout that would go to sea and return every 2 years ,or 3 and go back again..Soon there were hatcherey's popping up the dreaded farmed steelhead was now invented and at times contamenting the native runs.Now the native steelhead had no where to turn its mere exsistance was doomed.. I started winter steelheading 1975, on the pilchuck river ,and at reiter ponds later i treid summer run and fell in love with that head over heels fished the S.FStilly above granite 5 to 7 fish days were common hardly any pressure ,even when there was half the guys didnt know what they doing , another favorite was canyon creek. Now there are no fish whatever is left is so strictly regulated that it not even worth togo for me anymore .The glory days it was great to have 2 or 3 big NATES on thew beach.The nets have raped whatever was left from the poor logging practices the drifts and nice hole's are all filled in now nothing is left just the gentlle noise of the river flowing through what once was a true steelhead shang gri la.
You're missing the biggest factor, dams. Just thought you should know,since you're so educated. The nets, logging, mismanagement, poor handling, genetic saturation by hatcheries fish, pollution, human expansion into pristine creeks, along with tons of other factors play their roll. The dams, by far, are the worst offender when it comes to the plight of the Steelhead. :tup:
While true for snake and columbia runs, that is not true for the vast majority of the westside runs. Most rivers that have had population crashes, including most Puget Sound streams, do not have any dams.
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I normally try to stay out of pissing matches like this, but this hits close to home. I've been a steelheader since the day I could walk, Dad made sure of that. I remember the last wild steelhead I killed, I was 10 years old on the Snohomish, that was 13 years ago. Even so, up until about 5 years ago, we took almost every wild fish we caught out of the water for a picture. We handled fish well, only out for a few seconds, never on the bank, and used a rubber net to land them quickly without any physical harm. I never thought it made a difference until I started guiding trout a few years back, and specifically, big trout on the Upper Columbia. In a couple of months of fishing during different times of the year I noticed that almost every fish we simply lifted out of the water quickly for a photo took at least 10-20 seconds to swim out of the net when released, whereas the fish that never left the water, took of like a shot the minute the edge of that net dipped into the water. It truly changed my opinion of fish handling. As it stands now I NEVER take a steelhead out of the water unless I plan on keeping it, and only take trout out if the situation allows me to do it properly without any risk of hurting that fish or keeping it out of the water for more than a second or two. For those of you who don't think it makes a difference, you obviously haven't had the opportunity to see both sides enough.
As far as the pictures go, sure, hero shots are nice. You definitely get a good look at the fish and how its built. Pictures of the fish slightly in the water look better to me though. That fish deserves to be treated well, it just swam through the gauntlet and made it back home to spawn, don't abuse it for that. Here are a few of what I consider to be, great pictures, of fish still in the water.
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Put and take attitude didn't help......
Protection of predators such as sealions didn't help....
Netting of certain river systems.......
Its amazing there are still fish.
GORGEOUS PHOTOS!
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Question, why are guys so quick to call these fish native or wild?
Nice non-clipped hatchery fish you got there!
Is there a better chance it is truly a wild fish or a non-clipped hatcher fish? :dunno:
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I don't have a problem with geting a quick picture of a fish, guess I'm a rebel that way. I'm sure we all bend the law every now and again and I'm sure for the most part we are all good people.
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Would you suggest a sniff test Ice or how would you like to try to distinguish between the two?
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Would you suggest a sniff test Ice or how would you like to try to distinguish between the two?
As I recall, they tasted about the same... :EAT:
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i used refer them as granite falls fish n chips
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Its pretty easy to tell the difference between a wild and unclipped hatchery actually, the pectoral, and anal rays on a wild fish are straight while on a unclipped hatchery they are bent or crooked. Look next time.
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Do I lift them out of the water to check? :chuckle: