Post by: ridgefire on March 11, 2012, 12:51:10 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on March 11, 2012, 12:53:30 PM
Post by: longknife on March 11, 2012, 01:06:12 PM
I got my 14yr daughter the Savage axis 30-06 for Christmas just for the knockdown power. I was afraid the kick would be a bit much, not to mention the bark they produce. For a first weapon, she is comfortable, and hitting 5" groups at 100yrds with it already!
A .308 is a GREAT cal! Seems to have a lower tone when fired(helps the flinching), and dosent have much of a recoil.
I think a .270 is a bit underpowered for elk, for a youth. Just because it will take a decently placed shot for less tracking. I have heard good things about the 25-06 for a youth rifle.
Good luck!
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2012, 01:16:04 PM
Post by: longknife on March 11, 2012, 01:19:37 PM
7mm-08 is what my daughter shoots. Same case as the .308 and .243, larger bullet than the .243 and better BC than the .308. :twocents:
I might look into that one! Sounds like a winner,,,is ammo pricing decent, and always avalable?
Post by: ghosthunter on March 11, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
.308 - that's what I'm going to pick up for my lady anyways. Lots of guns out there that will do both. My great aunt has killed several elk with her .243. Personally I like to pack a little more punch, and the .308 offers the flexability to move up and down the load range.
:yeah:
In carbine if you want les length.
Post by: HairTrigger on March 11, 2012, 01:24:26 PM
25-06
7mm-08
6mm
:tup:
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2012, 01:31:53 PM
7mm-08 is what my daughter shoots. Same case as the .308 and .243, larger bullet than the .243 and better BC than the .308. :twocents:
I might look into that one! Sounds like a winner,,,is ammo pricing decent, and always avalable?
Yep. She shoots a 140gr. Nosler and has a silver dollar size 3 shot group at 200 yards off a bench with only front support.
I picked up a Ruger M77 Hawkeye for her, mounted with a Nikon 3-9x40. It has a 16.5" barrel and youth stock, easy for her to pack and shoot. same recoil as a .243 but bigger, high BC bullet in .284. It looks like the one in the link.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276613604
Post by: scottfrick on March 11, 2012, 01:40:35 PM
Post by: CplRaines on March 11, 2012, 01:56:32 PM
I am buying her a 270 barrell this year for elk and gonna top it with another Leupy.
Post by: addicted on March 11, 2012, 02:14:50 PM
7mm-08 is what my daughter shoots. Same case as the .308 and .243, larger bullet than the .243 and better BC than the .308. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 11, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
Post by: superdown on March 11, 2012, 03:27:15 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 11, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Post by: ridgefire on March 11, 2012, 07:26:37 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 11, 2012, 07:58:52 PM
Post by: Thenewguy on March 11, 2012, 07:59:50 PM
7mm-08 is what my daughter shoots. Same case as the .308 and .243, larger bullet than the .243 and better BC than the .308. :twocents:
I have one of these, my wife and anyone else (new hunters) can shoot it with ease. If you don;t hand load, hornady makes some pretty sweet ammo for it they coined "light mag". I blew a huge hole in my deer this last year with it.
Post by: adamR on March 11, 2012, 08:00:14 PM
Post by: elkslayer069 on March 11, 2012, 08:00:51 PM
Post by: coachcw on March 11, 2012, 08:18:25 PM
Post by: 300rum on March 11, 2012, 08:19:42 PM
Post by: coachcw on March 11, 2012, 08:23:43 PM
Post by: whitetailslyr on March 11, 2012, 09:30:54 PM
Post by: flinter on March 11, 2012, 10:08:32 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on March 11, 2012, 10:30:33 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2012, 11:46:16 PM
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 02:40:02 AM
25-06 is a little light in bullet weight with 117gr or 120gr=1,668lbs at 200 yards not a good elk round. Good deer round to 300yds
.270 win would be best over the 25-06,because you can use 130gr bullets =1,957lbs at a 200yds and 150gr bullets = 1,886lbs at 200yds. Good out to 200 yards for Elk.
7mm-08 with 140gr is good out to 100yds =2,142lbs at 100yds A bit light for Elk good deer round to 300yds
.300 savage 180gr is good out to 150yds= almost the same,but a little lighter on the foot lbs Good round
.308 win with 180gr is good out to 200 yds =1,896lbs at 200yds. Good round
The .35 remington using 220gr bullet is ok out to 100 yds for Elk
.375 win using the 250gr bullet is good out to 100 yards for Elk
"Yes" you can kill with smaller cal. but the .243 win is just to small. Try to keep with heavyer bullets. Like the ones listed below.
I would stick with the .300 sav 180gr,.308 win 180gr or 270 win 150gr bullets. You can't go wrong. Look up and read the book listed above or other books about Big game rounds and distances. I find elk ever year that where shot and lost. In most cases the animal was hit good. Elk are the toughest pound for pound. They can take a lot of lead and run for miles. Thats why I try and stick with 180gr .30cal bullets or 175gr to 250gr belt mag loads. I'm sure you will find the right one for your son. I have a .300 savage pump and a .270 win bolt he can shoot. Let me know.
Post by: RadSav on March 12, 2012, 03:57:32 AM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 04:38:41 AM
Their all good cartridges at closer ranges. I would go with the .300 sav,.308 or .270 using the heavest bullets they make. They should do fine out to 200yds. Althow a 11 year old should keep it down to 150 or so. He practess a lot at the range to see what the best grouping is at diffrent distances. Here are some ballistics out of a book called shots at big game by Craig Boddington. Great Book You should pick it up. Lots of info.I don't know how you can figure a 7mm-08 is to light for elk and only good to 100 yards. That makes no sense to me. First off you need to compare bullets close to the same weight. Not 140 in the 7mm-08 to the 180 in the 308. Of course your going to have more ke when you do that. All of the ones listed will take a elk to 200y or more very easy and have plenty of ke to get the job done :tup: So I don't know how you figure they are not good elk catridges.
25-06 is a little light in bullet weight with 117gr or 120gr=1,668lbs at 200 yards not a good elk round. Good deer round to 300yds
.270 win would be best over the 25-06,because you can use 130gr bullets =1,957lbs at a 200yds and 150gr bullets = 1,886lbs at 200yds. Good out to 200 yards for Elk.
7mm-08 with 140gr is good out to 100yds =2,142lbs at 100yds A bit light for Elk good deer round to 300yds
.300 savage 180gr is good out to 150yds= almost the same,but a little lighter on the foot lbs Good round
.308 win with 180gr is good out to 200 yds =1,896lbs at 200yds. Good round
The .35 remington using 220gr bullet is ok out to 100 yds for Elk
.375 win using the 250gr bullet is good out to 100 yards for Elk
"Yes" you can kill with smaller cal. but the .243 win is just to small. Try to keep with heavyer bullets. Like the ones listed below.
I would stick with the .300 sav 180gr,.308 win 180gr or 270 win 150gr bullets. You can't go wrong. Look up and read the book listed above or other books about Big game rounds and distances. I find elk ever year that where shot and lost. In most cases the animal was hit good. Elk are the toughest pound for pound. They can take a lot of lead and run for miles. Thats why I try and stick with 180gr .30cal bullets or 175gr to 250gr belt mag loads. I'm sure you will find the right one for your son. I have a .300 savage pump and a .270 win bolt he can shoot. Let me know.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 05:00:21 AM
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
308 150g bullet: 100 yards 2251ft-lbs 200 yards 1919ft-lbs 300 yards 1626ft-lbs
So you are telling me that you think the 308 will be o.k and the 7mm-08 won't be at 200 yards because of 158ft-lbs difference? I don't think so. Most professional hunters will base there ideas on 1000ft-lbs to cleanly take most big game animals.
Then you also say that the savage 300 would be good to 150 yards, but not the 7mm-08? Ok lets look at those numbers.
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
300 savage 150g bullet: 100 yards 1816ft-lbs 200 yards 1413ft-lbs 300 yards 1086ft-lbs
So how you think the 300 savage is better and has more range and killing power then the 7mm-08 I am not sure of :dunno:
All of these numbers are from winchester.com You can double check them if you like. If you are going to put comparisons up you need to keep the bullets close to get a accurate picture.
I also know of a native amercian hunter that took close to 100 head of elk in his life with nothing but a 243win.
A small caliber bullet placed in the vitals is better then any magnum outside the vitals. So I don't know how anyone can say a 243 is just to small.
Post by: KillBilly on March 12, 2012, 05:28:29 AM
Here is a little real world data.
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
308 150g bullet: 100 yards 2251ft-lbs 200 yards 1919ft-lbs 300 yards 1626ft-lbs
So you are telling me that you think the 308 will be o.k and the 7mm-08 won't be at 200 yards because of 158ft-lbs difference? I don't think so. Most professional hunters will base there ideas on 1000ft-lbs to cleanly take most big game animals.
Then you also say that the savage 300 would be good to 150 yards, but not the 7mm-08? Ok lets look at those numbers.
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
300 savage 150g bullet: 100 yards 1816ft-lbs 200 yards 1413ft-lbs 300 yards 1086ft-lbs
So how you think the 300 savage is better and has more range and killing power then the 7mm-08 I am not sure of :dunno:
All of these numbers are from winchester.com You can double check them if you like. If you are going to put comparisons up you need to keep the bullets close to get a accurate picture.
I also know of a native amercian hunter that took close to 100 head of elk in his life with nothing but a 243win.
A small caliber bullet placed in the vitals is better then any magnum outside the vitals. So I don't know how anyone can say a 243 is just to small.
:yeah:
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 12, 2012, 06:49:55 AM
Post by: C-Money on March 12, 2012, 06:53:47 AM
Hope the youth hunter has much success in the up coming season! :tup:
Post by: h2ofowlr on March 12, 2012, 06:56:04 AM
Look back in the books, .243 killed a lot of game.
Post by: addicted on March 12, 2012, 09:00:57 AM
The 7mm08 ballistically and energy wise is very close to cartridges like 30.06, 270, 280. The 308 casing appears to be very efficient and the 7mm bullets can pop better energy than their 30 cal counterparts because of the BC and speed related to their slightly sleeker design which also correlates to better MPBR which is important to some hunters looking for a point and shoot rig.
140grn bullets
7mm08 2860fps
280REM 3000fps
7mmMAG 3150fps
You can see that the 7-08 is within 10% of the speed of the 7mm remington Magnum while utilizing half as much powder. This shorter cartridge will produce less recoil and fit into a much handier lighter rifle as well which is part of the goal of this thread i would think.
lets go a bit further
162-165 grain bullets
7mm08 2760fps
308win 2700fps
30.06Sprng 2800fps
Well look at that..... 308 gets wooped and its practically identical to the 06....... but wait, it gets better. Since the 7mm bullet has a better BC than the 30 cal bullet in the same weight it has a higher BC meaning that it will overtake the 30cal bullet in speed and energy down range. The 30 cal cartridges don't start to out run the 7-08 until you step up to the 300winmag which boasts 3120fps with the 165grn bullets. But 300win is probably not the best option for a youth or new shooter.
If you were to reload, the bullet choices you have are mind boggling due to the popularity of 7mm cartridges over the years. Bullet selection is only out matched by the 30 cal bullets and most weights the 30 cal bullets are available in, the 7mm bullets are available as well.
You can see there is no reason to bash the 7mm-08. Not only in these numbers but also the fact that the ever growing popularity of the cartridge has not built the cartridge above and beyond wildcat status, but has nearly made it a household name in a time of nearly merciless widespread magnumitis.
When it boils down to it, they all kill if put in the right spot, but there are several slight advantages in ballistics and efficiency in favor of the 7mm08.
Post by: bobcat on March 12, 2012, 09:08:49 AM
There's nothing wrong with the 7/08, I just don't think it's a significant improvement over the old 308. For a reloader I might recommend the 7mm, but if you're only buying factory ammo, go with the 308 for sure.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 09:44:40 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 12, 2012, 09:54:24 AM
Understand your points bobcat. The point behind this was to prove to someone that the 7mm-08 is just as equal or in the long run "ballistics and bc wise" better then the 308. So to say the 308 can go to 200 yards and the 7mm-08 can only for to 100 and its not good enough at that, well that is just flat out wrong!
I definitely agree with that. In my mind, the 7/08 and 308 are virtually identical in all respects. (other than the price of ammo)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 09:59:51 AM
I have always found the price of the 2 for ammo to be almost the same when I have looked. Like at bi mart I think there is maybe like 2-3.00 a box difference. I don't think to many avg joe shooters will burn more then a few boxes a year. So even if you say in a whole year the difference is 30.00 on the high side. Heck that isn't even a 1/4 tank of gas for me :chuckle:
Both have a killer range of bullets as well for the handloader.
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 03:29:22 PM
[/quote]
I don't know how you can figure a 7mm-08 is to light for elk and only good to 100 yards. That makes no sense to me. First off you need to compare bullets close to the same weight. Not 140 in the 7mm-08 to the 180 in the 308. Of course your going to have more ke when you do that. All of the ones listed will take a elk to 200y or more very easy and have plenty of ke to get the job done :tup: So I don't know how you figure they are not good elk catridges.
[/quote]
I was quoting what the book said. It's a good round for deer out to 300,but for Elk you should keep the range around 100yds. I'm not saying there not good elk rounds I wiould pick the .308 over the 7mm-08 any day. you can't compare them. The bigest fac. round for the 7mm-08 is 140gr which the the .308 in 180gr beats. Al I am saying is your limited to the distance you can make a clean humane kill. The only rounds I would not use is the 25-06 and .243 win the bullet weights are just the small for Elk.
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 03:41:09 PM
Here is a little real world data.I'm just saying most adults can't hit the vital all the time. Do you think a 11 year old with buck feaver using a .243 over a .308 is better. I would go with the .308. This is just my opinion and what I have read in a book. I am not going to get into a debate over the right round for the job. That would last a life time. Hell Eskimas like to shoot Polar bear with .223 would I hell no. Most poacher use .22 rf ,but that doesn't mean that it is good for big game. I also wouldn't use 150gr for the 300 sav or 308. I would stick with the 180gr bullets for elk ( My opinion again)
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
308 150g bullet: 100 yards 2251ft-lbs 200 yards 1919ft-lbs 300 yards 1626ft-lbs
So you are telling me that you think the 308 will be o.k and the 7mm-08 won't be at 200 yards because of 158ft-lbs difference? I don't think so. Most professional hunters will base there ideas on 1000ft-lbs to cleanly take most big game animals.
Then you also say that the savage 300 would be good to 150 yards, but not the 7mm-08? Ok lets look at those numbers.
7mm-08 140g bullet: 100 yards 2053ft-lbs 200 yards 1761ft-lbs 300 yards 1502ft-lbs
300 savage 150g bullet: 100 yards 1816ft-lbs 200 yards 1413ft-lbs 300 yards 1086ft-lbs
So how you think the 300 savage is better and has more range and killing power then the 7mm-08 I am not sure of :dunno:
All of these numbers are from winchester.com You can double check them if you like. If you are going to put comparisons up you need to keep the bullets close to get a accurate picture.
I also know of a native amercian hunter that took close to 100 head of elk in his life with nothing but a 243win.
A small caliber bullet placed in the vitals is better then any magnum outside the vitals. So I don't know how anyone can say a 243 is just to small.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 12, 2012, 04:03:39 PM
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 04:08:10 PM
I know plenty of guys switching to .300 RUM's and I have to think why? Why shoot a gun that beats the crap out of you when you can kill an elk just fine with a 30-06. Learn to be a good shot and take good shots and calibers like the .308, 7mm-08, etc. will be plenty good.I'm not talking about .300 rum's or the 30-06. I have killed a lot with the 30-06 I love it. All I was saying is what the book said on page 48-49 it is a suggested effective range in yards on game. (JUST A SUGGESTION) I have a .243 win I like it to,but it would be my last choice over my other calibers. Look at the chart on page 48 It "suggests not to shoot at ELK over 100 yard". It also says the 25-06 is not good for Elk. Just giving my opion just like ever one else. Its just a OPION not a debate. If the 7mm-08 was the only rifle I had YES I would shoot a elk, but I would limit the range to around 150 yards. "But the book says 100yds Just saying"
Look back in the books, .243 killed a lot of game.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 12, 2012, 04:28:37 PM
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 04:33:29 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 07:16:42 PM
Now that's you saying that not the book right? Didn't we just show you that in fact you can compare them. Maybe not in your eyes but infact! They are both almost the same when matched with EQUAL weight bullets. The 7mm-08 even beats the 308 in some of the cases. SO yes we can compare them and yes they are both so close to being equal. Look at the numbers we have posted :chuckle:
Post by: copasj on March 12, 2012, 07:38:53 PM
308 would be easier to find and probably cheaper to boot, but it might kick a little more.
Post by: bear hunter on March 12, 2012, 08:15:16 PM
"I'm not saying there not good elk rounds I would pick the .308 over the 7mm-08 any day. you can't compare them"I was talking about the 140gr bullet vs 180 gr you said I can't compare them. ALL I WAS SAYING IS THE GUY THAT WROTE THE BOOK SUGGESTS NOT SHOOTING OVER A 100 YARDS WITH THE 7MM-08 USING THE 140GR BULLET. If I had to use the 7mm-08 I wouldn't us the 140gr factory round. If I loaded it I would go with a heaver 175gr spitzer bt bullet that's all. When I said you can't campare " One is 140gr and the other one 180gr. The 7mm-08 175gr is going at 2600fps and ke is 2626 and the .308 is 2600 fps and the ke is 2701 that's 75lbs more in the 308 so I like the 308 over the 7mm-08 MY OPION
Now that's you saying that not the book right? Didn't we just show you that in fact you can compare them. Maybe not in your eyes but infact! They are both almost the same when matched with EQUAL weight bullets. The 7mm-08 even beats the 308 in some of the cases. SO yes we can compare them and yes they are both so close to being equal. Look at the numbers we have posted :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on March 12, 2012, 08:43:48 PM
As I said before, in my opinion, the 308 and 7/08 are the same. After all, they both use the same case, hold the same amount of powder, and the diameter of the bullets is only 2 hundredths of an inch different.
Post by: copasj on March 12, 2012, 09:02:27 PM
I would pick the 308 over the 7/08 too, but not because the 308 kills better. The 7/08 with a 140 grain bullet would do just fine on elk, just as a 308 with a 150 grain. With the good bullets we have available to us nowadays, you don't necessarily need the heavyweights anymore. I would still try to limit my shots to 300 yards or less, but I'd do the same with the 308, the 270, 280, 30-06 etc.
As I said before, in my opinion, the 308 and 7/08 are the same. After all, they both use the same case, hold the same amount of powder, and the diameter of the bullets is only 2 hundredths of an inch different.
+1
But like I said, I reload. I'm using 175 interlocks with my 7x57, but the wife's 7mm-08 likes 120 TTSX's. And the 120 TSX's have built an outstanding reputation in the 7mm-08 on everything up to moose.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 12, 2012, 09:08:07 PM
"I'm not saying there not good elk rounds I would pick the .308 over the 7mm-08 any day. you can't compare them"I was talking about the 140gr bullet vs 180 gr you said I can't compare them. ALL I WAS SAYING IS THE GUY THAT WROTE THE BOOK SUGGESTS NOT SHOOTING OVER A 100 YARDS WITH THE 7MM-08 USING THE 140GR BULLET. If I had to use the 7mm-08 I wouldn't us the 140gr factory round. If I loaded it I would go with a heaver 175gr spitzer bt bullet that's all. When I said you can't campare " One is 140gr and the other one 180gr. The 7mm-08 175gr is going at 2600fps and ke is 2626 and the .308 is 2600 fps and the ke is 2701 that's 75lbs more in the 308 so I like the 308 over the 7mm-08 MY OPION
Now that's you saying that not the book right? Didn't we just show you that in fact you can compare them. Maybe not in your eyes but infact! They are both almost the same when matched with EQUAL weight bullets. The 7mm-08 even beats the 308 in some of the cases. SO yes we can compare them and yes they are both so close to being equal. Look at the numbers we have posted :chuckle:
Come on now :chuckle: apples to oranges :chuckle: When you change them that much no they can't compare. Still the 7mm-08 is flatter shooting then that 180grain bullet for sure :chuckle:
Post by: deerslyr on March 12, 2012, 09:19:32 PM
Post by: bear hunter on March 13, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
If you put a bullet in the lungs of an elk its going to die if shot at a reasonable range with a good bullet.:tup: That is all I was trying saying about the 7mm-08 and others (again my opion)
Post by: high country on March 13, 2012, 07:48:48 AM
Post by: TwoSixFourWins on March 15, 2012, 08:42:36 AM
Post by: spookgus on March 15, 2012, 02:30:30 PM
Has anyone shot these out of their 7mm-08?
HSM 160 grain Speer Grand Slams.
Double Tap 160 grain Accubonds
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 15, 2012, 10:59:31 PM
Going by the numbers if someone thinks the 7MM Rem Mag is a 500 yard elk gun then the 7MM-08 is a 350 yard elk gun.
Has anyone shot these out of their 7mm-08?
HSM 160 grain Speer Grand Slams.
Double Tap 160 grain Accubonds
I have shot accubonds out of my 7mm-08's but I have not shot the factory loads.
Post by: RadSav on March 16, 2012, 12:07:29 AM
Going by the numbers if someone thinks the 7MM Rem Mag is a 500 yard elk gun then the 7MM-08 is a 350 yard elk gun.
Has anyone shot these out of their 7mm-08?
HSM 160 grain Speer Grand Slams.
Double Tap 160 grain Accubonds
Have not shot the HSM factory rounds, but the old Speer Grand Slam was a fantastic bullet for elk and bear. Heard the new one is a keeper too, but I have yet to shoot it. 160 grains does seem a little over weight for the 7-08 if using either of the two bullets you listed - IMO HSM only rates the 160 SGS at 2544fps. To get those two bullets to perform at their best you really want a good bit of velocity so I'd be looking at the 145grain. With their controlled expansion you should be fine.