Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 22, 2012, 09:59:42 AM
New map plots up to 10 wolf packs in Washington
March 22, 2012 9:53 a.m. • 0 comments
ENDANGERED SPECIES — Up to 10 wolf packs could be roaming in Washington, according to a new wolf recovery map (above) posted by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.
If the evidence leads to confirmation, that would be 100 percent increase in the state's wolf packs over the past year.
Most of the wolf activity is in northeastern Washington, but the pack activity is being found in the Blue Mountains and even the North Cascades.
A good update on the Washington wolf situation, summarizing the presentation state wildlife officials made at the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commisison earlier this month, has been posted by Andy Walgamott of Northwest Sportsman Magazine.
The Washington Fish and Wildlfie Department recently introduced an online wolf-reporting tool that enables the public to help alert wolf researchers to expanding wolf activity.
Click here to listen to the audio transcript of the March 9 wolf presentation
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on March 22, 2012, 10:08:29 AM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2012/03/agenda_mar1012.html
Post by: hillbillyhunting on March 22, 2012, 10:10:33 AM
Post by: Huntbear on March 22, 2012, 10:47:42 AM
That map shows nothing about wolves in the klickitat area. That is the only place in WA I have seen one with my own eyes. :dunno: Is that because it is not considered a pack or because noone is recognizing that they are there?
According to WDFW, they need anyone seeing wolves in areas like the Klickitat to document it, photographs if possible of tracks, animals, etc.... and send them the information. To document a pack, or that there is a viable breeding pair in an area, they must go in and collar the wolves, and track them, gather info, etc.... They still claim they have never "Planted" wolves anywhere but the Lookout pack, and that even the Teanaway pack is former members of the Lookout Pack that just wandered off.
Post by: hillbillyhunting on March 22, 2012, 10:54:00 AM
That map shows nothing about wolves in the klickitat area. That is the only place in WA I have seen one with my own eyes. :dunno: Is that because it is not considered a pack or because noone is recognizing that they are there?
According to WDFW, they need anyone seeing wolves in areas like the Klickitat to document it, photographs if possible of tracks, animals, etc.... and send them the information. To document a pack, or that there is a viable breeding pair in an area, they must go in and collar the wolves, and track them, gather info, etc.... They still claim they have never "Planted" wolves anywhere but the Lookout pack, and that even the Teanaway pack is former members of the Lookout Pack that just wandered off.
Ya there was no way I could have gotten a picture... it was gone before we could process what had happened. I should have took pics of the prints though :bash: All they have to do is talk with the farmers in the area though. I talked with a couple in the area I saw this one and they said they see them in their fields 1-2 times per year.
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2012, 10:54:30 AM
Bureaucracies choke on the amount of paperwork they generate. WE need to demand access to it as a matter of public record. The WDFW has done much to keep us in the dark, its time to start digging. :twocents:
Post by: Huntbear on March 22, 2012, 10:58:49 AM
They ask for documentation... Our reports on here do nothing if they are not sent to the biologists. As for asking the farmers, if the farmers want the wolves documented, the farmers can turn the evidence over to the WDFW. They can not be everywhere at once. They have limited resources too, since the gubernor of this state raids their coffers....
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2012, 11:05:59 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 22, 2012, 11:06:03 AM
So they have 5 suspected packs... How did they get the info on them? Part of holding the WDFW is making them accountable for their documentation. We have produced lots of sitings but i don't think they overlap the "suspected" packs. If we want to ferret out the truth we need to demand documentation as to how they think they have these new packs... And if it is just individual sources, how are they being listened to and we are not?
Bureaucracies choke on the amount of paperwork they generate. WE need to demand access to it as a matter of public record. The WDFW has done much to keep us in the dark, its time to start digging. :twocents:
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2012, 11:07:03 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 22, 2012, 11:07:22 AM
I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. The WDFW says they suspect a pack's location right? How and why do they. I KNOW there are wolves in the skagit valley i have seen them, and there have been pics posted here of them... In the past we have been told pics are not proof... So How can the WDFW suspect there is apack near by? That should be in a written report, and we should find/get a copy of it. What proof are they using to make this assumption if our pics and documentation are not good enough? If their basis of proof, or suspicion is in writing then we can use their guideline to prove wolves where we already know they are.Call your local bio and get them in the Skagit and show them some evidence to start the ball rolling. That's probably how they are finding most of the packs.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 22, 2012, 11:07:59 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 22, 2012, 11:22:42 AM
I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. The WDFW says they suspect a pack's location right? How and why do they. I KNOW there are wolves in the skagit valley i have seen them, and there have been pics posted here of them... In the past we have been told pics are not proof... So How can the WDFW suspect there is apack near by? That should be in a written report, and we should find/get a copy of it. What proof are they using to make this assumption if our pics and documentation are not good enough? If their basis of proof, or suspicion is in writing then we can use their guideline to prove wolves where we already know they are.My guess is that they need DNA to confirm they aren't hybrids and other data to 'officially' call them a pack.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 22, 2012, 11:33:25 AM
Post by: boneaddict on March 22, 2012, 11:39:57 AM
Post by: bearpaw on March 22, 2012, 11:55:17 AM
Quote
If everyone will post the gps coordinates or a Township/Range/Section of their sightings in this topic or pm the info to me, I will give that info to the state. I have to go thru this whole log of sightings and try to get info so they can put a pin on their online map.
Use this map tool to pinpoint coordinates: http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html
(use map or satellite view, move the red pin to where you had the sighting, right click on the pin and it gives the coordinates)
Copy and paste the coordinates here with your sighting info.
This is truly important so that we can get these wolves documented.
Donny Martorello has been in contact several times and is using our data, everyone who has participated in helping to document wolf sightings in our "Wolf Count" topic can all thank yourselves for helping to get wolves documented in Washington. :tup: :tup: :tup:
I have posted that I need everyone who reported a sighting to go to a mapping site and get me the coordinates for your sighting. Once I have coordinates for all the sightings, WDFW plans to put specific sightings on a map with pin marks. This map will show every sighting I can get the coordinates for and may be used by WDFW bio's for areas to look for wolves.
Post by: Huntbear on March 22, 2012, 11:56:01 AM
So, until people start calling WDFW with sightings, taking photos of animals, tracks, scat, kills, etc... and sending them in, there will be no DOCUMENTATION for the WDFW to investigate and confirm.
Basically, you can get on board and start helping this process, so we can start hunting the wolves sooner, or you can continue down the Conspiracy Theory path, and it will be 10 or 15 years before the 15 breeding pairs get documented, and the elk and deer herds on the East side are wiped out.
We are the people that are out in the woods the most. Scouting, hiking, hunting, etc.... the burden will be on us, the farmers, ranchers to get this done quicker.
Post by: Special T on April 16, 2012, 05:36:21 PM
I don't need to get into talking consperiocy in order to show that the WDFW is not acting like our "partner" to document these wolves. The Eastern 1/3 of the state could already be delisted. The Feds say so so why not the WDFW?
Attitude is a reflection of Leadership. :twocents: Hunters and Ranchers have a piss poor attitude because the WDFW is not providing good leadership on this issue...
Post by: grundy53 on April 16, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
QuoteIf everyone will post the gps coordinates or a Township/Range/Section of their sightings in this topic or pm the info to me, I will give that info to the state. I have to go thru this whole log of sightings and try to get info so they can put a pin on their online map.
Use this map tool to pinpoint coordinates: http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html
(use map or satellite view, move the red pin to where you had the sighting, right click on the pin and it gives the coordinates)
Copy and paste the coordinates here with your sighting info.
This is truly important so that we can get these wolves documented.
Donny Martorello has been in contact several times and is using our data, everyone who has participated in helping to document wolf sightings in our "Wolf Count" topic can all thank yourselves for helping to get wolves documented in Washington. :tup: :tup: :tup:
I have posted that I need everyone who reported a sighting to go to a mapping site and get me the coordinates for your sighting. Once I have coordinates for all the sightings, WDFW plans to put specific sightings on a map with pin marks. This map will show every sighting I can get the coordinates for and may be used by WDFW bio's for areas to look for wolves.
:tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 16, 2012, 06:20:40 PM
HB not sure, but Who are you yelling At? My Point is that i think there is a bad double standard. I see what i think is a wolf with pics and and a exact location. they say its a hybrid. After sharing the info the WDFW has the exact same info I/We have... By the WDFW saying its a hybrid it says a few things to me. 1 they are dismissing the claim. 2 they are not intersted in reasonable evidence 3 they are not saying that sound interesting let us investigate thankyou for the info, they are arguing my evidence. 4 there are a lot of freaking Hybrids around and the WDFW should be really conserned. 5 If the WDFW requires DNA evidence my/our evidence is sent suffecient, how come the default postition is "its a Hybrid"?I would agree that they should really be concerned about the hybrids. If there are as many hybrids as we are being led to believe, then a large portion of the future 'wolves' will also contaminated with the hybrid genes. The only way to get real wolves would be to eliminate the hybrids right out of the gene pool. So while eventually the state would hit the 15 real packs, there's no telling how many hybrid packs would also be around....maybe equal to or more?
I don't need to get into talking consperiocy in order to show that the WDFW is not acting like our "partner" to document these wolves. The Eastern 1/3 of the state could already be delisted. The Feds say so so why not the WDFW?
Attitude is a reflection of Leadership. :twocents: Hunters and Ranchers have a piss poor attitude because the WDFW is not providing good leadership on this issue...
Post by: humanure on April 16, 2012, 08:02:28 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 16, 2012, 08:10:10 PM
BEFORE, they will allow hunting, there MUST have been 15 breeding pairs documented for 3 CONTINUOUS YEARS!!!
So, until people start calling WDFW with sightings, taking photos of animals, tracks, scat, kills, etc... and sending them in, there will be no DOCUMENTATION for the WDFW to investigate and confirm.
Basically, you can get on board and start helping this process, so we can start hunting the wolves sooner, or you can continue down the Conspiracy Theory path, and it will be 10 or 15 years before the 15 breeding pairs get documented, and the elk and deer herds on the East side are wiped out.
We are the people that are out in the woods the most. Scouting, hiking, hunting, etc.... the burden will be on us, the farmers, ranchers to get this done quicker.
Good stuff, Huntbear, I've heard stuff like that before...actually
I think I may have said almost those exact words in the past.
Someone will probably call you an idiot at some point. I'd suggest blowing it off.
Post by: buckfvr on April 16, 2012, 08:14:06 PM
Post by: humanure on April 16, 2012, 09:15:51 PM
Post by: BuckNAze on April 16, 2012, 09:57:06 PM
Post by: grundy53 on April 17, 2012, 05:29:12 AM
Does anyone know if the 15 packs for the state includes packs on tribal lands? They are almost thinking we have a breeding pair here already on the northern part of the Reservation. Just curious on how that is worded. Im assuming it includes tribal lands but not 100% sure, thanks.
It should. I don't see why it wouldn't. I'm sure the wolves will wander on to state land at some point...
Post by: brianmtsinc on April 17, 2012, 05:54:22 AM
Are you saying they are not real? I took me 30 seconds on google to identify 6 different breeders that sale Hybrid pups. I'm sure if I was really interested, I could find MANY more. :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on April 17, 2012, 07:15:04 AM
Hybrid puppy mills ??????? get friggin real. That card has been over played and needs to go. It's the default go to card for those that are mindless enough to believe everything they are told.......TOTAL BS gullable people suck
There is no total BS about the wolf dog hybrid issue. I used to work with a guy who had about 10 of them and he had no control of them. They were having pups all the time and he thought it was just great till he had nobody that would take them. He had to keep one chained to a slab of concrete in his yard to keep him contained...big male. I felt like smacking him in the head every time he talked about his "woofs"....idiot.
Post by: jackelope on April 17, 2012, 07:18:45 AM
Hybrid puppy mills ? get friggin real. That card has been over played and needs to go. It's the default go to card for those that are mindless enough to believe everything they are told.......TOTAL BS gullable people suckHere you go, this one took about 10 seconds to find.
Are you saying they are not real? I took me 30 seconds on google to identify 6 different breeders that sale Hybrid pups. I'm sure if I was really interested, I could find MANY more. :dunno:
http://www.wolfhybridpuppies.com/wolf-hybrid-dog-puppies-for-sale-state-list/wolf-hybrid-dog-puppies-for-sale-in-washington
http://www.wolfzone1.com/
I can keep going...
Post by: boneaddict on April 17, 2012, 07:24:09 AM
Post by: Special T on April 17, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
You can make ANY argument you want, but unless the WDFW addresses these issues the whole thing is flawed and a waste of energy. :twocents:
Post by: BuckNAze on April 17, 2012, 09:46:14 AM
Post by: hirshey on April 17, 2012, 09:48:31 AM
That map shows nothing about wolves in the klickitat area. That is the only place in WA I have seen one with my own eyes. :dunno: Is that because it is not considered a pack or because noone is recognizing that they are there?
It seems photos are the best way to get yourself taken seriously... even when I had my wolf encounter up in the Lake Chelan Rec Area the first question I was asked was, "are you certain they weren't coyotes?". It was only when I replied I had photos and GPS coordinates that they committed a person in to go look for them... they even told me other people had reported seeing wolves, tracks, and hearing howls in the near vicinity but hadn't investigated because there was no solid proof. I encourage everyone to try to get some kind of proof after that experience.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 17, 2012, 10:00:54 AM
Does anyone know if the 15 packs for the state includes packs on tribal lands? They are almost thinking we have a breeding pair here already on the northern part of the Reservation. Just curious on how that is worded. Im assuming it includes tribal lands but not 100% sure, thanks.
The wolf plan created by the WDFW does not identify lands outside of their control, they identify the entire State and break it down into zones. Each zone has it's own set of pack numbers they wish to have in that particular zone. And last I heard and read is there is at least 1 pack in the north half and 1 possibly on your rez.
You had some of your Tribes reps. speaking on behalf of your Tribe speak openly that they are only going to allow 1 pack on the Rez and 1 pack off the rez in the north half, so from your Tribes stand point they've already made it clear, publicly that they are not tolerating more than that.
I know we had one confirmed hybrid on our reservation just recently. This winter there was a deer kill that was suspected of being a wolf that was by a ranchers house so he had Fish and Wildlife and some loggers put some game trail cameras up around it and at first it looks just like a wolf but after the DNA from the scat was sent it, it was a confirmed hybrid. Our laws here are most dogs that are caught chasing wildlife are shot, don't see why this would be any different.
If that is correct in your Tribes laws then shoot away if they've been identified as being hybrids and the State or Feds don't recognize hybrids it isn't a problem. :tup:
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 17, 2012, 10:04:13 AM
That map shows nothing about wolves in the klickitat area. That is the only place in WA I have seen one with my own eyes. :dunno: Is that because it is not considered a pack or because noone is recognizing that they are there?
According to WDFW, they need anyone seeing wolves in areas like the Klickitat to document it, photographs if possible of tracks, animals, etc.... and send them the information. To document a pack, or that there is a viable breeding pair in an area, they must go in and collar the wolves, and track them, gather info, etc.... They still claim they have never "Planted" wolves anywhere but the Lookout pack, and that even the Teanaway pack is former members of the Lookout Pack that just wandered off.
Ya there was no way I could have gotten a picture... it was gone before we could process what had happened. I should have took pics of the prints though :bash: All they have to do is talk with the farmers in the area though. I talked with a couple in the area I saw this one and they said they see them in their fields 1-2 times per year.
Are you able to provide some details as to the location of your sightings? if not on here then PM? I've gotten some 3rd party info. that suggests there have been a sighting or two down in the Klickitat area and i'd like to see how close they are.
Post by: humanure on April 17, 2012, 12:22:39 PM
For officials, its easy to tell is a creature is a wolf or a hybrid. Spec's being the stance, the chest and the feet.
Post by: hirshey on April 17, 2012, 12:29:50 PM
It's not hard for typical people to mistake coyotes, hybrids and other animals for wolves, to the naked, untrained eye. I've had people swear on their lives that a few of my German Shepherds were wolves(which I just don't see how).I would have to respectfully disagree.. There was no mistaking a wolf versus a coyote the multiple times I have encountered them here in Washington.. And I would be considered "untrained".
For officials, its easy to tell is a creature is a wolf or a hybrid. Spec's being the stance, the chest and the feet.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 17, 2012, 12:39:49 PM
Post by: hirshey on April 17, 2012, 01:23:24 PM
People mistake them ALL THE TIME. People see what they want to see. If we made a wolf report on the OP there would be a dozen other false sightings by the end of the week
Yes people make mistakes... But to discount the folks spending the most time in the woods is also a mistake. That's why I stressed photographic evidence... Sometimes the opportunity to take photos simply doesn't exist; that doesn't mean that the sighting shouldn't hold some clout, though.
Post by: hirshey on April 17, 2012, 01:25:34 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 17, 2012, 02:39:43 PM
Hybrid puppy mills ? get friggin real. That card has been over played and needs to go. It's the default go to card for those that are mindless enough to believe everything they are told.......TOTAL BS gullable people suckHere you go, this one took about 10 seconds to find.
Are you saying they are not real? I took me 30 seconds on google to identify 6 different breeders that sale Hybrid pups. I'm sure if I was really interested, I could find MANY more. :dunno:
http://www.wolfhybridpuppies.com/wolf-hybrid-dog-puppies-for-sale-state-list/wolf-hybrid-dog-puppies-for-sale-in-washington
http://www.wolfzone1.com/
I can keep going...
Just to add some to this, I picked up the "giant nickel" and I recall seeing an add for hybrid pups during the last publication from the Tri-Cities area and now the current issue has hybrid pups for sale in the Tieton area, so it would seem they are easily accessible.
Post by: boneaddict on April 17, 2012, 03:08:26 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 17, 2012, 08:35:50 PM
People mistake them ALL THE TIME. People see what they want to see. If we made a wolf report on the OP there would be a dozen other false sightings by the end of the week
Hey Bart-
Post the hybrid pics you posted a year or 3 ago!
Post by: humanure on April 17, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
Post by: Caseyd on April 17, 2012, 08:47:12 PM
Funny thing is, I posted a photo of the seven in the lookout pack, and had half the board swear they were coyotes. Yeah right. Some folks will never have a clue. There is a coyote track, a dog track and a wolf track. There is a coyote, and a wolf. Hybrids I do think could be confusing. All depends on the percentage I'd imagine. Hell we have housecats coming up here all the time as bobcats.
That was a big house cat though :chuckle:
Post by: JLS on April 17, 2012, 08:50:56 PM
It's not hard for typical people to mistake coyotes, hybrids and other animals for wolves, to the naked, untrained eye. I've had people swear on their lives that a few of my German Shepherds were wolves(which I just don't see how).I would have to respectfully disagree.. There was no mistaking a wolf versus a coyote the multiple times I have encountered them here in Washington.. And I would be considered "untrained".
For officials, its easy to tell is a creature is a wolf or a hybrid. Spec's being the stance, the chest and the feet.
Absolutely correct. Ask WDFW how many "mountain lion" sightings turn out to be a golden retriever or a big yellow house cat.
Post by: humanure on April 17, 2012, 09:18:56 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 18, 2012, 07:22:08 AM
I'll look for them. Some are more convincing than others, but a well respected rancher got these "wolf" photos and was SURE they were collared wolves...People mistake them ALL THE TIME. People see what they want to see. If we made a wolf report on the OP there would be a dozen other false sightings by the end of the week
Hey Bart-
Post the hybrid pics you posted a year or 3 ago!
Post by: Miles on April 18, 2012, 07:44:10 AM
Funny thing is, I posted a photo of the seven in the lookout pack, and had half the board swear they were coyotes. Yeah right. Some folks will never have a clue. There is a coyote track, a dog track and a wolf track. There is a coyote, and a wolf. Hybrids I do think could be confusing. All depends on the percentage I'd imagine. Hell we have housecats coming up here all the time as bobcats.
That was a big house cat though :chuckle:
MEOW!!!
Post by: JuryRig on April 18, 2012, 09:08:27 AM
Post by: BuckNAze on April 18, 2012, 10:29:18 AM
Post by: hirshey on April 18, 2012, 11:30:27 AM
Post by: humanure on April 18, 2012, 12:10:52 PM
Post by: Bowchopps on April 24, 2012, 11:57:23 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 28, 2012, 10:54:04 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2012, 12:14:22 AM
There is definitely a pack in the Ruby Creek Area. I work in that area. I haven't seen or heard them but I know people that have. I have personally seen a lot of their scat and tracks. Two weeks ago one of our guys heard them well south of Timber Mountain pushing into the Tacoma Creek area.
DB, we really need some sightings documented in GMU 117. I know the wolves are there but we need more sightings for WDFW to see. Can you get the coordinates and post them in the Wolf Count tipic?
Have your friend go this website and get us some coordinates: http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/reporting/
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 29, 2012, 12:25:58 AM
There is definitely a pack in the Ruby Creek Area. I work in that area. I haven't seen or heard them but I know people that have. I have personally seen a lot of their scat and tracks. Two weeks ago one of our guys heard them well south of Timber Mountain pushing into the Tacoma Creek area.
DB, we really need some sightings documented in GMU 117. I know the wolves are there but we need more sightings for WDFW to see. Can you get the coordinates and post them in the Wolf Count tipic?
Have your friend go this website and get us some coordinates: http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/reporting/
:tup: Will do.... and I will get some cameras running in that area to see if I can get some pics.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 29, 2012, 12:27:12 AM
There is definitely a pack in the Ruby Creek Area. I work in that area. I haven't seen or heard them but I know people that have. I have personally seen a lot of their scat and tracks. Two weeks ago one of our guys heard them well south of Timber Mountain pushing into the Tacoma Creek area.
DB, we really need some sightings documented in GMU 117. I know the wolves are there but we need more sightings for WDFW to see. Can you get the coordinates and post them in the Wolf Count tipic?
Have your friend go this website and get us some coordinates: http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/reporting/
:tup: Will do.... and I will get some cameras running in that area to see if I can get some pics.
In reference to my post above.. Those cams will have to wait a couple months because I will soon be going out of country on business.
Post by: splitshot on May 04, 2012, 10:01:30 PM
Post by: humanure on May 05, 2012, 12:30:25 AM
Post by: smokepole assassin79 on May 05, 2012, 06:59:26 PM
Post by: humanure on May 06, 2012, 02:01:31 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on May 06, 2012, 07:04:28 AM
Post by: hirshey on May 06, 2012, 02:32:15 PM
Post by: NWBREW on May 06, 2012, 02:50:20 PM
Humanure I believe they were hinting you are a wolf in sheeps clothing... :dunno: not that you are interacting inappropriately with them.
That was my thought as well.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 06, 2012, 03:19:06 PM
Thats a pretty selfish way to think, guy. You pay for the privilege to hunt, but that doesn't mean you own the animals. "We are the number one predator", what does that mean anyways? Does that mean we get to throw our weight around and push the other predators out of the equation out of some self-righteous indignation? That screams ego-maniacal selfishness. You've got to 'think like a mountain' and quit acting like such a Buck Calder.yeah ..thats exactly it :dunno: when the big dog is in town the little dog needs to go !!!!
Post by: Curly on May 06, 2012, 04:15:40 PM
Post by: humanure on May 06, 2012, 04:39:27 PM
Post by: Curly on May 06, 2012, 04:51:26 PM
You'll have to ask the department. I would at this point AT LEAST give farmers special permits.
I bet it would depend on who was asked in the dept as to what the answer would be. A wolf bio is likely to say "no, there isn't enough to allow hunting".............a deer/elk bio is likely to say "yes". I'd rather ask a bio from Idaho what their opinion would be. :twocents:
Post by: humanure on May 06, 2012, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 07, 2012, 03:05:37 AM
I bet you would. Hahaha!
Blah, Blah, Blah..............