Post by: Rob on March 28, 2012, 09:11:46 PM
The cartridge is called a 6.5 Knute. You start with 7mm SAUM, or 300 WSM brass. Using a three stage process the shoulders are pushed back, the neck extended and necked down to 6.5mm. Without the brake, this kicks about like a 243 Win. With the brake it kicks about like a 22.250 Remington or less.
It is designed to shoot a 140 grain VLD bullet at at around 3200 FPS. I am getting 3100 using 56 grains of H4831SC. I am still working on the final load.
The action is a cheap Vangaurd, and the barrel is a lilja 1:8 twist countour #5 3 groove and it is 26 inches long. My buddy threaded the barrel and we put a vias brake on it. The most unusual thing of course is the dimpling. We drilled 702 holes in the barrel over a weekend. This increased surface area over fluting and looks kinda cool. It looked like it was rhinestone encrusted when it was silver, but my buddy and his uncle duracoated it in matte black.
It is sitting on the original cheapy stock that came with the action. However I modified it to hold the new barrel, and coated it with bedliner and grey duracoat.
I moved an IOR scope I had on another rifle over to this one. It is a 3-18 x 40 with a 35 mm maintube and is sitting on a 20 MOA base.
My goal with this rifle is to get something I can hit a 1,000 yard target with predictably.
At any rate, it was a very enjoyable leanring experience.
First photo shows a 7mm SAUM on the left, and a loaded 6.5 Knute on the right. The photos in silver are some WIP photos, and the final photos are the completed product.
Post by: Rob on March 28, 2012, 09:16:31 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on March 28, 2012, 09:30:03 PM
Post by: 75johndeere on March 28, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
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Post by: FC on March 28, 2012, 10:46:44 PM
Post by: Rob on March 29, 2012, 07:32:29 AM
The dimpling took off a little over 1/2 a pound.
Still working on accuracy. with fireforming loads it was horrible. 1.5 inches at 50 yards!
First batch of loads at 100 yards using VLD's got me about 1 to 1.5 inch groups (5 shots)
I seated the bullet a bit deeper and it jumped to 3/4 inch groups so it is getting there.My goal is 1/2 MOA groups as that is about as good as I can shoot. A little more playing and I think it will be there.
Post by: 400out on March 29, 2012, 07:37:12 AM
Post by: JohnVH on March 29, 2012, 07:54:53 AM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on March 29, 2012, 08:04:16 AM
Post by: JohnVH on March 29, 2012, 08:22:21 AM
Post by: doyourtime89 on March 29, 2012, 09:24:11 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 29, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 29, 2012, 10:02:09 AM
Post by: Rob on March 29, 2012, 10:26:38 AM
Post by: Huntboy on March 29, 2012, 10:48:37 AM
Post by: BullMagnet76 on March 30, 2012, 01:07:57 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 02, 2012, 09:27:35 AM
Keep us informed on your accuracy tests... :tup:
I am intrigued by that caliber as well, but not a big fan of the short stubby cases. Has anyone tried to neck down 7mm Rem Mag cases to 6.5, I wonder what the results would be?
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2012, 09:29:21 AM
Has anyone tried to neck down 7mm Rem Mag cases to 6.5, I wonder what the results would be?
You'd have a 264 Winchester Magnum, correct?
Post by: bearpaw on April 02, 2012, 10:20:56 AM
Has anyone tried to neck down 7mm Rem Mag cases to 6.5, I wonder what the results would be?
You'd have a 264 Winchester Magnum, correct?
I know the 264 is a hot one, didn't realize it was a 7mm necked down, guess I'm too late on that one... :chuckle:
Post by: BigGoonTuna on April 02, 2012, 11:55:26 AM
of course, they're both necked down versions of the .338 mag...
Post by: Rob on April 03, 2012, 08:28:05 AM
I'd like to get a tactical style stock, but the options for the Vangard are pretty limited.
Post by: MDGrand on April 03, 2012, 11:37:25 AM
That being said, it sounds like you are getting a bit more umph due to the size of the case being able to hold a bit more powder though and I applaud your effort in pioneering a new wildcat! Good luck!
Post by: Rob on April 03, 2012, 09:15:50 PM
Doing this project was as much about learning something new as it was the output.
I learned:
-how to lap lugs
-how to true up the action face
-how to true the bolt face to the action face
-how to chamber a rifle
-how to thread a barrel and fit a muzzle brake
-how to spend waaaaay too much time dimpling a barrel
-how to stiffen a stock to allow free floating of the barrel
-how to make a set of dies
And most interesting was the brass forming process
1. Three stage reforming process
2. inside neck reaming
3. outside neck turning
4. primer pocket uniforming
5. Primer flash hole uniforming
6. Annealing
7. fire forming
8. trim to length
9. size/prime and load
It is a total labor of love. would have been much cheaper and faster to just go buy a boiler plate rifle-that I am sure of.
My buddy claims that this round, pushing a 140 grain VLD bullet at 3,000 to 3,200 FPS shoots very flat, and that the unique cartridge design will do so more efficiently, with less wear on the throat and lower recoil than equivalents. Time will tell if that proves to be true.
I can tell you that the recoil without the brake is about like a 243 Win, and with the brake is like a 22.250 rem. Given this is a short magnum cartridge, I find that an impressive start.
I'll be shooting this at Boomershoot in Idaho the end of the month so that will be a fun test!
Post by: Rob on April 03, 2012, 09:18:43 PM
For all the work, I would rather go with the tried, true and becomming more and more popular 6.5x284
That being said, it sounds like you are getting a bit more umph due to the size of the case being able to hold a bit more powder though and I applaud your effort in pioneering a new wildcat! Good luck!
BTW, I did not pioneer the wildcat... credit where credit is due. Dave Knuteson designed this little bugger a while ago. Not many out there, but I am on the bandwagon, not driving the bandwagon for this one.
Post by: high country on April 04, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
Post by: Rob on April 06, 2012, 11:01:46 PM
Good as I managed last weekend to get out and fire form another 50 rounds of brass giving me a total of 250 pieces of finished brass.
Bad as I pushed the pressures a bit too high on a couple test rounds. The primers perforate at 58 grains of h4831sc. Velocities were around 3250.
I am going to get out this weekend and test seating depths with 55 grains of h4831 and also try rl 22 and see what happens.
Interesting stuff. I was surprised the primers failed. I was seeing some minor cratering as I worked my way up to 58 grains, but no flat or extruded primers. A little scary!
I'll be more careful going forward.
Post by: high country on April 07, 2012, 12:24:43 AM
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2012, 08:27:02 AM
Post by: high country on April 07, 2012, 09:16:31 AM
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2012, 07:09:12 PM
Hopin to get it out to Kenmore tomorrow to test some lighter loads. I loaded up 20 shells with 5 different OAL's.
I also want to do some load testing with RL22 to see if I can get some more velocity without the pressure.
I have 50 more rounds to fire form too.
Due to work and plans with the wife, I only have 4 more potential range days to decide on a load for Boomershoot!
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2012, 08:58:57 PM
First the bad news:
Max velocity I can get out of H4831SC before I hit dangerous pressures is about 3,080 FPS. This is with 55 grains of powder. I thought I could use 56 grains based on early testing. This was getting me ~3120 FPS with some cratering starting to form. Today however I had a primer Perforation which tells me this is too much pressure. Before I knew this, I tried 57 and 58 grains of powder last weekend. The craters with 57 grains were pretty significant, and at 58 grains the primer failed and was perforated. Incidentally, I was able to get 3230 FPS with 58 grains. Based on this testing, I think the max load I can safely use would be 54.5 or so grains. I estimate that would give me about 3050 FPS at the muzzle.
My buddy suggested trying RL22 as an alternate. This has some more promise.
I loaded up 20 rounds – 4 each with 52, 53, 54, 55 and 56 grains of powder. I was getting better velocities with lighter loads. 52 grains got me 3109, and 53 got me 3173. There was some cratering with the 53 grain loads, and significant craters with 54 (at 3215 fps) – I got one primer perforation out of the 4 shots fired too. I stopped at 54 grains.
While my data does not show it, the groups with the RL22 are actually a little better. In both cases, in a 4 shot group, I had 3 of the shots under ½ of an inch, with a flier that made the group bump to just under an inch. Grr. I think that is shooter issues.
I did one more little test with the 54 grain loads today. With a 100 yard zero dialed in, I took a 300 yard 3 shot group. The group was about 8.5 inches low at 300 yards, which incidentally is pretty much what the ballistic tables say a 140 grain VLD Berger should be doing at 3200 fps.
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 10:02:31 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 08, 2012, 10:12:56 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 08, 2012, 10:15:01 PM
that could be a good move and also I never load even numbers,, try something like 55.7 or 56.3 grains ..something in that form ...I always seem to get better groups doing that ....even 56.1 can make a huge difference ...just depends on what your gun likes !!
Now THAT'S something I've never heard of! Only odd numbers huh?
Hey, whatever gives you more confidence I guess.
Post by: high country on April 09, 2012, 07:14:05 AM
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2012, 08:25:39 AM
Any chance you were at Kenmore yesterday? I was talking to someone about ladder testing yesterday at the range.
Post by: high country on April 09, 2012, 08:43:28 AM
Post by: Curly on April 09, 2012, 09:14:24 AM