Post by: emac on March 29, 2012, 08:51:06 AM
Post by: rtspring on March 29, 2012, 08:54:24 AM
Post by: emac on March 29, 2012, 09:05:49 AM
Post by: et1702 on March 29, 2012, 09:17:49 AM
As an archery hunter, I wouldn't mind it. All us archers and then the muzzleloaders are out in the field in Sept & early Oct! I see big buls every year that I wish I could shoot (and will if I ever get drawn again for a Quality tag). So, no it wouldn't work. As someone else mentioned, the justification for "Spike Only" is to keep enough big boys around after the season is over to breed the following Sept.
ET
Post by: PlateauNDN on March 29, 2012, 09:18:15 AM
Post by: doyourtime89 on March 29, 2012, 09:22:14 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 29, 2012, 09:39:54 AM
What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state
They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.
Post by: spookgus on March 29, 2012, 10:36:11 AM
I think it would bring more bulls to maturity but, instead of quality bulls you'd end up with quantity. Harvest all the 6'ers in one year and the next crop comes up with little 6's and the following year nothing and pretty soon there is nothing but big 5's maybe the occasional 6. Kind of what is occurring in the Wenas with the 3point minimum. Lots of big 2's and barely any 3's to harvest and it reduces the quality of the hunt to quantity and then pretty soon you've eliminated the quality factor. :twocents:The big mature 2pt muley was a cool trophy 25 years ago. Now when I see one I wish I could tag him and remove him from the gene pool. Today the young bucks that display good antler genetics get hammered and the big 2s are free to spread there genes. I think a 6pt min for elk would put more pressure on bulls with quality genetics. Although, British Columbia has used 6pt min for elk so maybe my opinion is flawwed.
Post by: Fullabull on March 29, 2012, 11:12:04 AM
Well, I guess you could have a quality meat tag to take a spike for the more tender meat :chuckle:
Post by: B.G.hunter on March 29, 2012, 11:13:06 AM
The state is in the business of selling tags not managing elk.What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state
They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.
Post by: coachcw on March 29, 2012, 12:18:40 PM
Post by: TheHunt on March 29, 2012, 12:34:21 PM
So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach.
Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state. I like that as well.
Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting. We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res. If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man. So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington. They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls. Just my opinion....
Post by: doyourtime89 on March 29, 2012, 12:34:34 PM
The state is in the business of selling tags not managing elk.What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state
They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.
:yeah:
Very True
Post by: buglebuster on March 29, 2012, 01:35:20 PM
Kind of what is occurring in the Wenas with the 3point minimum. Lots of big 2's and barely any 3's to harvest and it reduces the quality of the hunt to quantity and then pretty soon you've eliminated the quality factor. :twocents:that is very true! i have noticed all the giant 2pts in the wenas. Last year i saw 7 bucks shot that i knew of that were big 2pts with 1 tiny eyeguard or 1 little crab claw to make him legal. The wenas unit used to be awesome when it was draw only and the first couple years after that but now it is the unit i would least like to hunt.
Im really not sure how the 6pt minimum would work but i really wouldnt mind seeing the whole state go into a draw only for elk tags!
Post by: PlateauNDN on March 29, 2012, 01:55:19 PM
I love the idea of not taking anything but a 6x6. BUT, there are areas that you never see a 5x5. For example the toutle area is fullllllllllll of 5x5. I am not sure if it is the genetics or what but finding a 6x6 is very difficult.
So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach.
Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state. I like that as well.
Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting. We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res. If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man. So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington. They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls. Just my opinion....
I have to interject on part of your comment here. I believe it would level the playing field more than it currently is but then instead of just the Tribes harvesting the branched bulls you have everybody harvesting them. Then it would push the Tribal hunters that specifically target the mature branched bulls to seek other areas due to the old areas being open to everybody. Pretty soon the mature branched bulls (5 or 6 plus) would be a dime a dozen and then the overharvester can either revert to small bulls or cows for the "sustenance" they've been normally pursuing or openly comepete with everybody else.
As most know now we, (Yakamas) don't have restrictions except with female species so it doesn't matter if it was 5 or 6 plus branches for non-tribal members, it would just allow the non-tribal side more opportunities that they've been lacking. Same amount of chances to get a mature branch bull rather the current system now.
Post by: buglebuster on March 29, 2012, 02:19:29 PM
very well said plateau :tup: and your 100% rightI love the idea of not taking anything but a 6x6. BUT, there are areas that you never see a 5x5. For example the toutle area is fullllllllllll of 5x5. I am not sure if it is the genetics or what but finding a 6x6 is very difficult.
So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach.
Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state. I like that as well.
Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting. We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res. If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man. So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington. They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls. Just my opinion....
I have to interject on part of your comment here. I believe it would level the playing field more than it currently is but then instead of just the Tribes harvesting the branched bulls you have everybody harvesting them. Then it would push the Tribal hunters that specifically target the mature branched bulls to seek other areas due to the old areas being open to everybody. Pretty soon the mature branched bulls (5 or 6 plus) would be a dime a dozen and then the overharvester can either revert to small bulls or cows for the "sustenance" they've been normally pursuing or openly comepete with everybody else.
As most know now we, (Yakamas) don't have restrictions except with female species so it doesn't matter if it was 5 or 6 plus branches for non-tribal members, it would just allow the non-tribal side more opportunities that they've been lacking. Same amount of chances to get a mature branch bull rather the current system now.
Post by: colockumelk on March 30, 2012, 03:29:47 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 30, 2012, 05:10:58 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on March 30, 2012, 09:25:34 AM
The American Indians only take the big ones as it is during the winter, along side the roads when they are more suseptable anyhow. Maybe it should be spike and 2 points only for them.
Really? Maybe some do but not all. I don't hunt when snow hits so what does that make me? I prefer walking in and packing out and that's what I'm teaching my children and most of the hunters I know do as well. I don't road hunt because it's not a challenge and if that's how some do it then so be it. I also don't hunt when winter hits because it's also not a challenge, why slaughter something that's just trying to survive? I prefer the taste of cows but if a bull(spike or branch) presents itself before a cow then so be it.
Post by: Huntbear on March 30, 2012, 09:30:48 AM
Post by: Huntbear on March 30, 2012, 09:40:28 AM
3-5 pt. only... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :bdid: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on March 30, 2012, 02:56:16 PM
Post by: hunterofelk on March 30, 2012, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 30, 2012, 03:14:10 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 30, 2012, 03:40:18 PM
The best idea of all would be permit only elk hunting, statewide, and with a permit any bull is legal.
As much as a hate to agree, I have to agree that permit only is probably the best route.
Post by: Fullabull on March 30, 2012, 04:01:33 PM
Post by: slim9300 on March 30, 2012, 07:45:26 PM
The problem I have with 6 point minimum is that it's very easy for a Rocky Mountain bull to be a mature 5x5 (6+ years old). I'm not sure if that would hold true for "Roosevelts," but since most of them are Rocky Mountain transplans anyways, I am sure it wouldn't be much different.
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Post by: slim9300 on March 30, 2012, 07:46:09 PM
Colorado is four point min....
Brow tined bull.
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Post by: Curly on March 30, 2012, 08:00:42 PM
Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state. I like that as well.
Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting. We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res. If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man. So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington. They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls. Just my opinion....
:yeah:
Post by: slim9300 on April 04, 2012, 05:47:45 PM
I would like to see the Westside go to 5 point minimum. It would give the bulls at least one more year of breeding before they are killed. Doing this would also improve our abysmal bull to cow ratio. The sad part is that most rifle hunters I know (only 5) would be against the idea but EVERY archery hunter I know would think it's a great idea.
The problem I have with 6 point minimum is that it's very easy for a Rocky Mountain bull to be a mature 5x5 (6+ years old). I'm not sure if that would hold true for "Roosevelts," but since most of them are Rocky Mountain transplans anyways, I am sure it wouldn't be much different.
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Nobody?
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Post by: Curly on April 04, 2012, 05:53:31 PM
:stirthepot:
Post by: huntnnw on April 05, 2012, 03:03:10 AM