Post by: jaymark6655 on April 12, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
Post by: Machias Bowhunter on April 12, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on April 12, 2012, 09:49:45 PM
Post by: mtbiker on April 12, 2012, 09:58:17 PM
Post by: lokidog on April 12, 2012, 10:00:15 PM
Interesting perspective though.
Todd, that's pretty good evidence of why going for a heart shot might be best... then they can duck into a lung shot. Those are some scrawny, and jumpy, deer.
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 12, 2012, 10:06:58 PM
You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?
Interesting perspective though.
I measured it myself on the crono, more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.
distance=time*speed
60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps
Post by: lokidog on April 12, 2012, 10:09:24 PM
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 12, 2012, 10:32:37 PM
Post by: fair-chase on April 12, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
Most interesting to me was that the noise was almost non existant at the 60 yard mark during that little wind gust. It didn't seem to take much to really muzzle the sound of the shot. Oh and kudos for not shooting the camera. :chuckle:
Post by: WapitiFreak on April 12, 2012, 10:45:17 PM
Post by: jechicdr on April 12, 2012, 10:48:31 PM
The information I would like to know is what decibel level would it take to initiate the ducking response and how fast the average ducking speed was. I suspect at 60 yards, the deer would be unlikely to duck and at under 30 yards the deer would always duck...but just might be too slow for it to matter.
If you had that information, you could probably develop an adjustment for various distances for particular bows adjusting for bow noise and arrow speed (possible example: at 10 yards, arrow would hit point of aim, 20 yards would hit 4 inches high, 30 yards would hit 8 inches high, 40 yards would hit 8 inches high, 50 yards would hit 4 inches high, and 60 plus would hit point of aim if the deer heard above threshold noise to duck the string).
That would be a helpful bit of information. I had 2 whitetail deer duck arrows last season at 15-20 yards shooting out of a blind from my Mathews Z7. I admit I was aiming for center of mass. After seeing these videos, I would likely aim for heart at short distances from now on.
Post by: kentrek on April 12, 2012, 11:03:24 PM
You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?
Interesting perspective though.
I measured it myself on the crono, more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.
distance=time*speed
60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps
your distance formula is correct but the speed for an arrow has a few more variables.also im not sure how you mesured the .2 seconds.
all tech stuff aside,this is good stuff to think about before pulling the trigger.
Post by: jaymark6655 on April 13, 2012, 07:49:01 AM
You say almost 300 fps for your bow, but at 40 yards (120 ft), if it takes 0.51 s then your speed is less than 240 fps?
Interesting perspective though.
I measured it myself on the crono, more accurate measurement might be calculated at 20 yards since arrows slow down a lot.
distance=time*speed
60 feet / .2 seconds = 300 fps
your distance formula is correct but the speed for an arrow has a few more variables.also im not sure how you mesured the .2 seconds.
all tech stuff aside,this is good stuff to think about before pulling the trigger.
Yeah, the time measurement is probably the most inaccurate part. At 20 I was able to play frame by frame to see when the limbs on the bow started to move to getting the starting time. For the target impact I had to rely on the impact sound and then pause the video so the time is probably shorter than .2 seconds depending on how slow my reaction times was. I measured it several times to try and remove as much error as possible. No way am I going to sit there and try to figure out drag and stuff like that.
Good catch Wapiti and that is why I hunt nocked.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 13, 2012, 09:52:23 AM
Here's what I might hypothesize from those videos. If you are shooting a slow bow, might be better to "add 10 yards" to your point of aim (use 30 yard pin for 20 yard shot), or hold low.if you use your 30 yard pin at 20 yards then you are actually aiming high. :dunno: I always aim for half way up the body. Never had one jump or duck to miss. I have willed whiteys from 10-60+ yards with my bow.
Post by: huntnnw on April 13, 2012, 10:59:04 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on April 13, 2012, 11:56:27 AM
Distance, Speed, Flight Time of 72# Draw Weight
0, 293, 0
20, 283, .208
30, 279, .315
40, 274, .423
50, 269, .533
60, 265, .646
Distance, Speed, Flight Time of 50# draw weight
0, 253, 0
20, 244, .241
30, 240, .365
40, 236, .490
50, 232, .618
60, 228, .748
My take is that at the ranges deer are normally taken (20-30 yards) the difference in time of flight is negligible and should not be used as a reason to shoot the lightest arrow possible and the highest draw weight imaginable in order to gain top speed. Most archers would likely be much more effective as a hunter with a very heavy arrow and much lower draw weight; heavy arrows equate to quieter bows and more momentum; lower draw weight equates to steadier holds, less extraneous drawing motion and longer windows of opportunity while at full draw.
As for trying to decide "how low to aim" there are way too many variables to stick with one set of rules. For instance, most deer are missed high from a treestand due to poor form rather than string jumping. Combine poor form with a bit of string jump, and you can miss an entire animal by 36". Our deer jump the string far less, as a general rule, than those in that video (likely from Texas where small, jumpy deer are famous). Mule deer jump the string less than a whitetail in the same circumstances. Elk rarely jump the string at all. (Although I did have a big 6 point bull entirely duck an arrow at 20 yards once; I heard his his chest literally hit the dirt.) I don't know anything about blacktails.
Experience is the key in deciding how and when to shoot at that particular animal in those particular circumstances.
Post by: Chesapeake on April 23, 2012, 02:21:13 PM
just wanted to say two things on this 1 when you were shooting from 20 i could actually hear you nock your arrow. 2 did anyone else notice that the last arrow (in the video of the deer ducking under all the shots) the arrow actually ricochets off the deer.
You can see a tuft of hair fly up off the last deer. I dont think I could see the ricochete though.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 23, 2012, 02:28:00 PM
Post by: jechicdr on April 23, 2012, 02:40:19 PM
Do you hear the sound from the bow going off before the arrow hits the target ....thats what makes them WHITETAIL jump the string ...... :dunno: :chuckle: My Mathews they only feel the arrow zipping threw them :chuckle: :chuckle:
Not until your arrow is flying 1125 feet per second.
Post by: TheHunt on April 23, 2012, 06:13:48 PM
Post by: romaknows on April 23, 2012, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: jechicdr on April 24, 2012, 08:13:28 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 24, 2012, 08:18:28 PM
Post by: seth30 on April 24, 2012, 08:30:53 PM