Post by: TeacherMan on April 16, 2012, 02:37:37 PM
Anyone bait blacktails? Alfalfa? Apples? Corn? Cob? Salt? All the above :)
I figured in the thick stuff it maybe very useful!
Thanks
Post by: buckfvr on April 16, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 16, 2012, 02:53:13 PM
Trust me.
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2012, 03:00:43 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 16, 2012, 03:03:55 PM
Post by: h20hunter on April 16, 2012, 03:04:52 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on April 16, 2012, 03:07:43 PM
Post by: Special T on April 16, 2012, 03:51:59 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 16, 2012, 03:55:04 PM
Post by: AKBowman on April 16, 2012, 08:14:31 PM
I am researching different types of clover which I know grow well in Western WA and BT's like them a lot. I was also looking to plant some sort of beet...maybe sugar beet to keep the does coming in later in the year. Not sure about the beet thing quite yet but I am def planting a number of different types of clover.
Post by: DoubleJ on April 16, 2012, 08:46:45 PM
When I did it, they would eat the forage in the food plot, when they were there. But they happily moved on in the same interval as they always did before and have since. Around here they tend to stay in an area about 2 weeks and there are about 4 areas they frequent. We see the herd for about 2 weeks every other month. Food plotting or baiting made no impact on this.
Just my experience
Post by: DoubleJ on April 16, 2012, 08:49:54 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on April 16, 2012, 09:01:34 PM
And, if I absolutely HAD to put out a food that I've seen a blacktail prefer to something else, it would hands down be bird seed. Putting it in an open tray type feeder about 3' off the ground only helps
That's funny
Post by: lokidog on April 16, 2012, 09:15:15 PM
Of course, the deer here don't have much choices and will gladly eat most anything put out for them.
Or, you could just plant a garden... and forget about the fence, or leave the gate open. :chuckle:
Post by: sled on April 16, 2012, 09:27:34 PM
He put out deer cane, wet cob,salt, and apples. Had deer comming in. He was questioned by game warden on the stand, and was arrested for attempting to bait bears. Lost all his gear and did not get it back. They want to take his license for two years and a five hundred dollar fine. He goes back to court in two weeks.
After seeing this i will never put anything out period, because it all has the potential to lure a bear.
Post by: TeacherMan on April 16, 2012, 09:36:16 PM
Post by: sled on April 16, 2012, 09:56:04 PM
That is crazy! Keep us posted on what happens to him!will do. Last week he went to court. Game dept offered to lower the charge to big game poaching with the 500 dollar fine and loss of the license for two years. He said no thanks. I think he goes back in two weeks.
He was caught in a stand archery hunting deer. Scarry thing is i sat in the stand while he was east arch elk hunting. Glad i didnt get caught there.
Post by: lokidog on April 16, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2012, 10:04:14 PM
That is crazy! Keep us posted on what happens to him!will do. Last week he went to court. Game dept offered to lower the charge to big game poaching with the 500 dollar fine and loss of the license for two years. He said no thanks. I think he goes back in two weeks.
He was caught in a stand archery hunting deer. Scarry thing is i sat in the stand while he was east arch elk hunting. Glad i didnt get caught there.
Makes no sense that he could be charged with baiting bears if all he was doing is hunting deer. For them to prove bear baiting, I would think he would have to kill a bear at the bait site. Either that or the bait used be of a type that would only bring bears in.
I'm disappointed that the WDFW would be so gung ho in trying to enforce the bear baiting law when it's a law that they supposedly did not support, and it's a law we don't want or need. Blatant violations should of course be taken seriously but for them to try to make a case against someone who is baiting deer, which is perfectly legally, is just wrong.
Post by: sled on April 16, 2012, 10:10:08 PM
I thought this had been clarified by our law enforcement folks on here that unless you hunted BEAR, it was OK. :dunno:according to game dept attempting to bait bears is putting out anything that has the potential to lure bears. He was charged with (attempting to bait bears) :dunno:
Post by: TeacherMan on April 16, 2012, 10:16:28 PM
I thought this had been clarified by our law enforcement folks on here that unless you hunted BEAR, it was OK. :dunno:according to game dept attempting to bait bears is putting out anything that has the potential to lure bears. He was charged with (attempting to bait bears) :dunno:
Bears eat anything including people, just remember that next time you walk in the woods you are attempting to bait according to this crap :bash: Hope him the best of luck.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 16, 2012, 10:20:19 PM
I do understand law enforcement...
If he was hunting, in a stand, over bait, and had a VALID UN-NOTCHED BEAR TAG IN HIS POSSESION, DURING BEAR SEASON, IN AN OPEN UNIT.
then it is up to him to "explain it to the judge"
someone obviously reported the bait site, and it is the officers discretion to write a ticket, but... :dunno: I was not there.
I do know a guy (who is now a WSP, and at the time was an "explorer" ) who was cited for "hunting in a closed unit" simply because he was on the wrong side of the creek (Taneum) during late Archery, and had a VALID UN-NOTCHED ELK TAG in his pocket, and broadheads in his quiver, even though he claimed he was only grouse hunting, and knew the officer.
He was instructed by his "adviser" in the program to plead guilty, pay the fine, and write a letter of apology.
We all gave him a rough time , as him being the only one in our group to ever get a citation, and him always rubbing in our faces how he was going to be an LEO.. :chuckle:
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 16, 2012, 10:23:36 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2012, 10:29:16 PM
Is that all the proof they need that you are illegally hunting? A tag in your possession?
So if I'm hunting deer and a warden checks me, and I pull out a deer tag and an elk tag, I'll be busted for hunting elk during a closed season? :bash:
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2012, 10:30:46 PM
So, I guess what I am saying is.. leave the bear tag in your vehicle, or at home, if you plan to hunt over bait.
Then couldn't they just write you up for hunting bear with no tag? :rolleyes:
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 16, 2012, 10:43:53 PM
however, if you are hunting in an area that is not open for deer, or Elk, and you have broadheads in your quiver, and are within 1/4 mile of an open area... :yike:
OR, hunting over bait, with a bear tag "IN YOUR POSSESION", then it is up to the warden to decide if he writes you a ticket, some will, some wont...
As I said, I was not there, but.. IF someone reports a baitpile, and an officer investigates, sees sign that bears are visiting...
Comes back and finds you in the stand, and you have a bear tag in your pocket, your best response is, YES, SIR- NO, SIR- I am deer hunting, would not even think about shooting a bear from my stand, SIR !
And hope he is not having a bad day.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 16, 2012, 10:52:00 PM
They could, but when you went to court, you would have substantiated that you were deer (or Elk) hunting.So, I guess what I am saying is.. leave the bear tag in your vehicle, or at home, if you plan to hunt over bait.
Then couldn't they just write you up for hunting bear with no tag? :rolleyes:
A tag is only a transport tag, not a hunting licence, having one in your possesion shows that you wish to transport a harvested animal, having one in your possesion while sitting over bait...
As I said before, I know nothing about this story, or even know the guy involved, or the officer, :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2012, 11:11:00 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on April 17, 2012, 06:52:54 AM
And, if I absolutely HAD to put out a food that I've seen a blacktail prefer to something else, it would hands down be bird seed. Putting it in an open tray type feeder about 3' off the ground only helps
That's funny
Hilarious
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv612%2Fdoublej88%2Fdeer.jpg&hash=27821035508e9afeb12ab97905168c413a47efa5)
Post by: Curly on April 17, 2012, 08:53:13 AM
Putting out anything that may have the potential to bring in bears is considered baiting for bears! Trust me. I personally know someone who is going through court right now.
He put out deer cane, wet cob,salt, and apples. Had deer comming in. He was questioned by game warden on the stand, and was arrested for attempting to bait bears. Lost all his gear and did not get it back. They want to take his license for two years and a five hundred dollar fine. He goes back to court in two weeks.
After seeing this i will never put anything out period, because it all has the potential to lure a bear.
If they did that to me they could keep my license forever. I wouldn't want to pay for a license in this state ever again. >:(
Post by: Machias Bowhunter on April 17, 2012, 04:21:25 PM
[/quote]
How could they charge someone for big game poaching!! You have to actually shoot a animal to poach, if you didnt you could charge anyone carying a firearm in the woods with poaching! I dont know the facts but from working in a lawenforcment background there is sometimes more to the story then what is told. Not saying he was doing anything wrong, i do know there are some bad game wardens out there that make the rest look lack jerks.
Post by: lokidog on April 17, 2012, 08:30:03 PM
Where's Outdoor Guardian when you need him? If this is the case, then anyone with bait in the woods for a trailcam is "poaching" or illegally baiting bears.... :dunno: Except me, because we don't have bears in the islands. :chuckle:
Post by: Outdoor Guardian on April 18, 2012, 12:11:08 PM
Where's Outdoor Guardian when you need him?
I'm here... I've read through the thread and will put together a response as soon as I can. I'm on the road today.
Seems like this was covered in another thread not too long ago...?
Post by: h20hunter on April 18, 2012, 12:17:33 PM
Kidding of course. I think you input on these matters is a big help for many of us.
Post by: Outdoor Guardian on April 18, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
But, I can tell you that officers have to develop probable cause to address the situation as an illegal bear bait site, i.e. facts and circumstances to lead a reasonable person to believe that a violation has been committed. Simply having bait present alone would likely not meet that threshold. Obviously if your intent is to bait deer, and a bear arrives and you kill it, that's another story (I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, just throwing that out as a hypothetical).
In other words, there is likely more to this story/case than we are reading about on this forum. We should wait until a court decision is rendered and the facts are heard before determining innocence or guilt -- for both the alleged violator and the Fish and Wildlife Officer. :twocents:
Post by: h20hunter on April 18, 2012, 02:35:31 PM
Acutally I think you point is very well addressed and contains good advice. Thanks for posting.
Post by: AKBowman on April 18, 2012, 05:43:31 PM
On a side note :chuckle: ...has anyone else tried planting small food plots for BT and how did it work?
Post by: Curly on April 18, 2012, 06:10:50 PM
Quote
I have a few food plots here in SW Washington. The blacktail love the clover, but I can see how they would go for the corn first.
I dont plant any grasses with my clover. Grass will take over the plot in a few years all on its own if left alone.
I used to buy my seed from Blacktail Specialties, but the last several years I just buy my clover seed from Coastal. They sell non blended seeds for somewhat less than half what the "Food Plot" companies charge.
I buy a 5# bag of each Crimson, Red, and White Clover. I think its maybe $10 a bag compared to the $100 for 8-10 pounds you will get from a "Food Plot" company.
Odds are they (food plot outfit) get thier seed from Oregon anyway.
http://www.oregonclover.org/seedproduction.html
If you realy want the Buckweat, snowpea, ect... type blend than Coastal sells a blend called "Garden Cover Blend"??? that is a blend of all these that does a decent job for a food plot. Its also about $10 for a 5# bag.
You can go to about any Feed and Farm type store and get Oregon grown and developed seeds for less than half what the "Food Plot" outfits charge.
Outside Pride will sell you about any type of clover you could grow in Oregon or Washington, Google them.
There is a guy that is a member on here that has a business called Blacktail Specialties (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Blacktail-Specialties/114433898591514) that sells some seed mixture for blacktails. I think he goes by Dave BTS or something like that.
Post by: lokidog on April 18, 2012, 09:46:32 PM
Baiting deer and elk is legal, we know that. I am not going to weigh in on the case example because I don’t have any specifics about that case, and I would rather not debate a case or its circumstances while it's still active in a court of law....
But, I can tell you that officers have to develop probable cause to address the situation as an illegal bear bait site, i.e. facts and circumstances to lead a reasonable person to believe that a violation has been committed. Simply having bait present alone would likely not meet that threshold. Obviously if your intent is to bait deer, and a bear arrives and you kill it, that's another story (I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, just throwing that out as a hypothetical).
In other words, there is likely more to this story/case than we are reading about on this forum. We should wait until a court decision is rendered and the facts are heard before determining innocence or guilt -- for both the alleged violator and the Fish and Wildlife Officer. :twocents: :dunno:
I thought there was something recently posted as well but could not remember. My question was, taking on face value someone sitting in a tree deer hunting over bait, even with an unnotched bear tag in their pocket, would they have a reasonable expectation of NOT getting a ticket for bear hunting? :dunno: I generally have all of my transport tags together with my hunting license and would not think about removing my bear tag while sitting over an apple pile while deer hunting.
Post by: Special T on April 18, 2012, 10:10:57 PM
Post by: lokidog on April 18, 2012, 10:14:19 PM
Post by: Special T on April 18, 2012, 10:25:29 PM
Post by: lokidog on April 19, 2012, 07:29:17 AM
I was mostly told the rose hips was what they were attracted to... that said, i have found that they like Back berry brambles and always see the leaves eaten off by them. Damn things are like goats! Hell i've seen them eath the cedar boughs i cut from my tree stand before? :o
They do snarf the cedars for sure. Maybe they eat the rose hips, the deer are so short here it might be rabbits eating them and you couldn't tell the difference... :chuckle:
Post by: coastie hunter on April 19, 2012, 07:36:24 AM
Post by: Outdoor Guardian on April 19, 2012, 10:52:02 AM
My question was, taking on face value someone sitting in a tree deer hunting over bait, even with an unnotched bear tag in their pocket, would they have a reasonable expectation of NOT getting a ticket for bear hunting? :dunno: I generally have all of my transport tags together with my hunting license and would not think about removing my bear tag while sitting over an apple pile while deer hunting.
Lokidog - While having your unnotched bear tag in your pocket alone is not sufficient evidence that you're hunting bear over bait, our Officers are expected to look at the totality of the circumstances in any situation to determine whether a violation is being committed, or whether there is intent to violate the law. That being said, it's probably a good idea to leave the unnotched bear tag at home, just to avoid any confusion or conflict. In ANY instance where you're concerned that your activity could or may be misconstrued as illegal by an officer, it's a good idea to modify that activity to alleviate any question of your intentions. :twocents: -OG
Post by: blindpig on April 19, 2012, 11:13:28 AM
Post by: bucksandbulls on April 19, 2012, 03:03:18 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 19, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 19, 2012, 03:47:52 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 19, 2012, 04:22:49 PM
Post by: AKBowman on April 21, 2012, 07:08:59 PM
Get the does in early like now with salt. then this summer start using apples keep the does in and the bucks will come,be ready in october!
I like that plan. I've already got two mineral sites out now, not putting out apples this yr. I bought a modern tag and will be hunting with my bow so I can hunt the rut, i really do not want to attract bears to my area and I know that if you lay a bunch of apples on the ground in sept/oct you will have bears hitting them sooner or later and they won't leave once they find it. I'm just going to keep pounding the minerals in there until they turn off it in Aug/sept.
Post by: Elkstuffer on April 21, 2012, 10:17:18 PM
Post by: marlin on April 22, 2012, 01:18:10 AM
I will never leave my bear tag at home why would I buy one?!?!? I don't have to alleviate anyones question of what I'm doing they'll know I'm hunting anything that's open. I would never shoot a bear over a bait pile in wa. That's illegal. But leaving tags I paid money for at home yeah right . What if I see one away from my deer bait. On the way in or out. It's not my job to alleviate suspicion by wdfw. I don't get paid to make there job easy. I pay lots of money to hunt and will excersise my rights in court on that deal. They have no case if there are no unknown circumstances . Hunting deer with all your tags in your pocket wow. I hunt all species with all my tags in possession. Bear and deer coincide in most gmu around the state. I would win that one and I would represent myself.
:yeah: As soon as my tags are purchased they go in my wallet and live there until theyre expired.. Unfortunately I have wasted 2yrs worth of all kinds of tags. Didnt do any saltwater fishing last year either but I was licensed to do so.. I just like giving those *censored*s my money I guess.. :bash: This year is going to be the year LOL.. If not than next year definately will spell success because I will be back in my homeland of TEXAS. On my own property.
Post by: DoubleJ on April 22, 2012, 08:12:16 AM
I will never leave my bear tag at home why would I buy one?!?!? I don't have to alleviate anyones question of what I'm doing they'll know I'm hunting anything that's open. I would never shoot a bear over a bait pile in wa. That's illegal. But leaving tags I paid money for at home yeah right . What if I see one away from my deer bait. On the way in or out. It's not my job to alleviate suspicion by wdfw. I don't get paid to make there job easy. I pay lots of money to hunt and will excersise my rights in court on that deal. They have no case if there are no unknown circumstances . Hunting deer with all your tags in your pocket wow. I hunt all species with all my tags in possession. Bear and deer coincide in most gmu around the state. I would win that one and I would represent myself.
:yeah: As soon as my tags are purchased they go in my wallet and live there until theyre expired.. Unfortunately I have wasted 2yrs worth of all kinds of tags. Didnt do any saltwater fishing last year either but I was licensed to do so.. I just like giving those *censored*s my money I guess.. :bash: This year is going to be the year LOL.. If not than next year definately will spell success because I will be back in my homeland of TEXAS. On my own property.
You're lucky. I'd make the trip to Texas every year to hunt there if I had access to land. I hinted there when I lived in Houston and loved it. No more access to private land though and, that's all Texas is anymore :(
Post by: AKBowman on April 22, 2012, 09:39:35 AM
Any tips for baiting for a hunt in late Nov. - early Dec? Apples, alfalfa, cob?
That's late enough in the year when you can put fruit out and the bears aren't a factor anymore, generally speaking. It's hard to beat apples, I wouldn't mess with the alfalfa and cob just get as many apples or pears as you can, apples are way cheaper. I was amazed at the mount of apples trees I started finding around my place last ear on public property within city limits and no one picked them. I put out probably 300# in December and they would pound them every night. THEY meaning the does and very young bucks, the larger more mature bucks still avoided the bait but I did get a shot at one of them and I do believe it was because the bait kept the does around and the bucks were hanging around in the adjacent thick stuff.
Post by: Elkstuffer on April 22, 2012, 11:00:27 AM
Post by: AKBowman on April 30, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
Nice! My property (home) is surrounded by apple and pear orchards :chuckle: Thanks for the tip.
Well then sounds like you have a nice spot!! :hunter:
Post by: UrbanTrapper on May 31, 2012, 07:07:48 AM
Post by: Cascade_fisher on May 31, 2012, 05:43:33 PM
Post by: brokenvet on May 31, 2012, 07:59:38 PM
Any tips for baiting for a hunt in late Nov. - early Dec? Apples, alfalfa, cob?
Ok Trick Question.
When you say apples What kind? don't tell me it's Red delicious or golden.
You will have better luck with CRAB apple
Post by: bobcat on May 31, 2012, 08:33:14 PM
Leave the bear tag at home if you are over bait. Same thing with coyote hunting with a smaller than .24 (.223 for example) with a big game tag is a violation. Heard it first hand from a gamie. BS to be sure but not worth the hassle or to lose Master Hunter status, etc...
I wouldn't worry about leaving my bear tag at home, just don't shoot a bear over bait. What if you see on on the way to your hunting area? I would never leave my bear tag at home if bear season were open.