Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: belkaholic on April 20, 2012, 07:47:10 PM

Title: what do other states think?
Post by: belkaholic on April 20, 2012, 07:47:10 PM: i have hunted in WA all my life. i read threads on here and on other sites and allways talk to people about how bad this state is with there wildlife management, seasons and tags. ... i agree with allot of it. but my question is, do other people complain about there states as much as we do. is the grass really greener. i know that there is better hunting in other states but is it because there is more animals, land, access and less hunters per huntable square mile? or does it just seem better because they have better circumstances therefor have less restrictions and " better hunting". please give good responses and not a bunch of bit@#ing.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 20, 2012, 07:59:21 PM: Some other states I know of, the population is really concerned with the access to hunting. Yes, they have huge amounts of animals and time--7 month deer seasons with 7 deer a year, another state it is 1 or 2 deer per day, etc; but what is difficult is access. East of the rockies tends to be a higher percentage of private land. To the point of charging what the market will bear. Doesn't matter if you have 7 tags but can't find anyplace to use them. I think $1-2/acre was norm for a year and allowed 1 buck and 1 doe in many places.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: Hunterman on April 20, 2012, 08:02:25 PM: I have hunted in many, many states, and when the camp talk comes arount to the price of resident tags, I have had more then a few folks look at me with total shock at the cost we in Washington are willing to pay. I have killed my share of game in this state, but given the choice I'll hunt out of state for much better animals all around.. Remember I have been hunting for 40 plus years, and have seen way too many changes.

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 20, 2012, 08:21:50 PM: Yeah I am sure other hunters from other states complain too !! Guess it is all in how you grew up and seeing things go to sheet makes everyone beach ...I know when I was a kid in Pennsylvania if I did not see over 100 deer opening morning it was a bad 1st day ... Now my brother & dad tell me if they see 20 a day things are good ... Plus I remember only paying $ 22.50 to hunt everything I wanted to hunt plus trapping included and back then if I cought 1 coon that took care of that :chuckle: when I was over turkey hunting I noticed the whitetail definately need some thinning out ....I seen herds and herds of whitetail If they gave everyone who hunts whitetail over there 2 doe tags I do not believe it would hurt at all ....Now they made it a 4pt area they need to thin out some of those doe and then you would see some dandy bucks all around :twocents: :dunno:
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: bobcat on April 20, 2012, 09:33:47 PM: Yes, people in other states complain too. Go look at the message board at www.ifish.net. That site is based out of Portland, Oregon and is predominantly people in Oregon. And there's plenty of bitching going on there. You want to see lots of complaining about the Idaho Fish & Game Depertment, look on Monster Muleys. Plenty of drama there too.

The problem is we've got an increasing human population, which decreases both wildlife habitat, and the amount of area we have to hunt. As the human population increases, hunting is just going to get worse, more competitive, and more expensive. It's simple supply and demand.

But people like to have someone or something to blame. So most of the blame seems to go to the Department of Fish & Wildlife. The reality of it is that it's not their fault. For them to really manipulate game populations in a substantial way, they would need to have control over a much larger land base than they do.

We want more deer and elk. Well we need better habitat, we need more logging and we need more fires. But that's not going to happen. The WDFW can't make it happen. The Forest Service can't even make it happen, even if they wanted to, they can't afford to. And Weyerhaeuser and the other large timber companies sure aren't going to manage their tree farms to benefit deer, elk, and other game animals. They're in the business to make a profit, not to provide animals for us to hunt.

The best hunting is in the states with the lowest human populations. Well, that is not Washington. That is why all the other states in the west, and in the mid west, have better hunting than we do. You want to blame something for the mediocre hunting in this state, blame it on yourself, for living here! :)
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2012, 10:12:15 PM: Unlike some on this board I think the WDFW is to blame. But not in the way you think. The WDFW should be the hunters biggest supporter and cheerleader. Yet the policies that they enact show that they are not interested in protecting our hunting or even expanding opportunists. Lets say bobcat is right, there is really nothing that the WDFW can do. Are you satisfied that the WDFW isn't pushing to reinstate trapping, hound hunting or de listing wolves in the NE? Once again you might accept that the hands of the WDFW are tied. So why does the WDFW try and take away spotlighting for coyotes and impose asinine shooting restrictions? Why did we have to beat them back for the liberal cougar season? This is the work of either Anti hunters or IGNORANT people working for the WDFW. Are you satisfied with your hunting $$$ supporting this kind of department?

IF the WDFW was fighting for hunters rights and our only option was to reduce deer and elk harvests then we could have a serious debate on its merits. Because the WDFW doesn't support hunters I won't drink the Cool Aide and support them. :twocents:
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: bobcat on April 20, 2012, 10:20:53 PM: Good post Special T, I agree 100%.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: belkaholic on April 20, 2012, 10:30:41 PM: Quote from: bobcat on April 20, 2012, 09:33:47 PM
Yes, people in other states complain too. Go look at the message board at www.ifish.net. That site is based out of Portland, Oregon and is predominantly people in Oregon. And there's plenty of bitching going on there. You want to see lots of complaining about the Idaho Fish & Game Department, look on Monster Muleys. Plenty of drama there too.

The problem is we've got an increasing human population, which decreases both wildlife habitat, and the amount of area we have to hunt. As the human population increases, hunting is just going to get worse, more competitive, and more expensive. It's simple supply and demand.

But people like to have someone or something to blame. So most of the blame seems to go to the Department of Fish & Wildlife. The reality of it is that it's not their fault. For them to really manipulate game populations in a substantial way, they would need to have control over a much larger land base than they do.

We want more deer and elk. Well we need better habitat, we need more logging and we need more fires. But that's not going to happen. The WDFW can't make it happen. The Forest Service can't even make it happen, even if they wanted to, they can't afford to. And Weyerhaeuser and the other large timber companies sure aren't going to manage their tree farms to benefit deer, elk, and other game animals. They're in the business to make a profit, not to provide animals for us to hunt.

The best hunting is in the states with the lowest human populations. Well, that is not Washington. That is why all the other states in the west, and in the mid west, have better hunting than we do. You want to blame something for the mediocre hunting in this state, blame it on yourself, for living here! :)

i think you said it best. the real problem is to many people Hunting in this small state. not to say that some better choices could be made though. i am Hunting in Wyoming this year for the first time, and when i can get 3 antilope tags for $48 a piece and a resident doe tag in WA is $46 it gets me wondering. but i will take what i can get and hunt on. is this state just over populated with hunters?
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2012, 10:35:10 PM: Bobcat, I'm kinda surprised... From the tone of your last few posts on the topic you made it sound like it was just overpopulation that was to blame. :o Kinda leaves me confused... I think it is important to give credit where its due. When the WDFW does something right we need to praise it and let them know they are doing a good job. NOBODY likes to work in an environment where they are yelled at and criticized all the time... Unless your a logger that works for my Bro's company! :chuckle:

I think there are many things that we argue about and blame the WDFW for that are inconsequential in the grand skeam of things. The Skagit delta was blessed to have a WDFW employee that LOVED watching, hunting and helping people with the sport. He lived here for a long time and liky passed up promotes because he LOVED what he did. Recently the elk Bio for the blues retired. I remember reading about his history and success in the area he loved. The WDFW is NOT replacing these kinds of guys with similar kinds of people. The WDFW is infiltrated Anti hunters, worst case, and ambivalent Stuarts Best case scenario. If these are the "new" crop at the WDFW why should i give them the Love and respect that people they replaced had? THEY DON"T DESERVE IT!
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: bobcat on April 20, 2012, 10:52:11 PM: I just don't think the WDFW is 100% to blame as many people seem to think. The most important issues, they have no control over. Even if the agency had not been infiltrated with anti-hunters, they still couldn't do much to improve things overall. Again, more people = less wildlife.

But I still agree with all that you said in your post. Who wouldn't? :dunno:
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: Nuc99 on April 20, 2012, 11:04:01 PM: I am really perplexed when I think of this... some states have highway kills that are huge. Some states have doe permits of up to 4. Why not here? I simply dont know. What I do know is that i used to pass on spikes and two points... Nowadays, I will shoot anything late in season with bone on its head. In my area, I think it is due to Brushpickers poaching deer year around. There are simply less deer... WDFW doesnt do a damn thing but knows it goes on. No money in it... But they would bust a guy with a 35k truck for shooting 1 minute before shooting time in a heartbeat. Just my opinion.. Throwing out my opinions tonight for a Newby tonight huh?
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: kentrek on April 21, 2012, 10:41:49 PM: idk about all the political stuff but i do know that my cuzin gladly pays the out of state prices to come over to western wa from id to hunt elk..and he does it every year with a smile on his face. so maybe the grass isnt as green as we all think..
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: aer212 on April 22, 2012, 08:56:41 AM: Quote from: kentrek on April 21, 2012, 10:41:49 PM
idk about all the political stuff but i do know that my cuzin gladly pays the out of state prices to come over to western wa from id to hunt elk..and he does it every year with a smile on his face. so maybe the grass isnt as green as we all think..

Or maybe he doesn't know any better.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: MAVsled on April 22, 2012, 09:22:54 AM: 2nd house in AZ for 4 years now.
and I still haven't hunted elk, applying as a non-resident. At least I can hunt OTC archery Dec & Jan deer, in units that have very good populations of deer.

In AZ, if you don't draw an elk permit, you don't hunt elk...even AZ residents.
yes, there are OTC tags available, in few gmu's where very few elk inhabit. And those that do live on private land in the OTC units. There are outfitters in AZ that book these hunts and do pretty well. But they have secured lease rights-$$$ to those private lands that a DIY hunter doesn't.

At least in this state, there is a general season; whether you draw or not. If AZ didn't do it their way, permit hunting or nothing, their public land areas would be overrun with residents and non-residents. But of course they wouldn't have the quality of the elk hunts and trophy bulls that they do now either.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: uplandhunter870 on April 22, 2012, 09:34:58 AM: after living in montana for almost two years now and talking to people here, hunting here and just see how things work here people complain about the same things here as they do in WA plus a few other things.

the biggest complainers are people that dont get a deer or elk simply because they dont put in the time and effort and expect it to be standing 20yds off the road, these people usually complain about access and herd numbers.

the other big complaint i here a lot of is about outfitters either buying up prime hunting land or paying landowners for lease rights or simply to not give permission to anyone but them, i know of a piece of ground on the Milk River that the Bone Collector guys pay big bucks for exclusive access.

one thing you guys that are talking about the multiple tags a season places have to remember is most of those places are the mid west states and eastern states and those states have predominately WHITETAIL deer, who proliferate similar to rabbits and can adapt to changing environmental conditions a lot faster than mule deer.

you really want to compare apples to apples look at only the western states (rocky mountains west to Pac. ocean) how many Mule deer tags residents get OTC and what is the general Mule deer season
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: DoubleJ on April 22, 2012, 10:35:42 AM: I've visited for a descent amount of time, hunting forums based in Iowa and North Carolina. Both complain as much or more than we do. Iowa especially.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 22, 2012, 10:52:43 AM: Illinois complains a lot about their Game Department. Ohio seems to have the best relationship with the hunters out of any of the states I have seen.

Whitetail hunting in this state is awesome. I do have my opinions about other ways to manage the herd/seasons but even when I live away from here I travel back every year so I can whitetail hunt in this state.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: MAVsled on April 22, 2012, 08:30:17 PM: Quote from: uplandhunter870 on April 22, 2012, 09:34:58 AM
the other big complaint i here a lot of is about outfitters either buying up prime hunting land or paying landowners for lease rights or simply to not give permission to anyone but them, i know of a piece of ground on the Milk River that the Bone Collector guys pay big bucks for exclusive access.

the ultimate challenge to true public access hunting and DIY.
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 22, 2012, 09:36:51 PM: I don't know who is to blame, but I feel like our seasons our the biggest complaint I have with this state. They are so short! I went to Idaho last year and it was so nice to go out for a week during now season and then a week in rifle and still have 3 more weekend hunts. I know our elk populations are not as high to allow any bull hunting in some good areas on the east side, but I sure wouldn't mind chasing a spike with a bow and then being able to hunt spikes with a rifle and muzzleloader later in the year with out paying 180 dollars to do so. I aslo would like to see more tags available for draw hunts. It confuses me why some of the best areas in the state have 1 or two tags available per weapon type? That and short seasons or lack of seasons make me think those in control don't want us in the field. A lot of guys pay a pretty fair price to only hunt 8 days a year for deer and elk. ( 4 weekends)
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: ridgefire on April 24, 2012, 09:13:32 PM: i was talking to a idaho bioligist a couple years ago up on the mountain and he said he worked for wa fish and game for nine years and said it was the most screwed up dept he has ever worked for. i can say i feel better buying my id elk tag for 600 than i do my wa tag for 60 or whatever it is nowadays
Title: Re: what do other states think?
Post by: 268bull on April 30, 2012, 08:13:05 PM: Belkaholic, Yep, I do believe we all complain about hunting appears to be better somewhere other than our home state. Admittedly, if I had the dollars, I would like to pay for a nice guided hunt, say New Mexico, Arizona, Wyoming, etc.. But that ain't gonna happen any time soon! And on top of that , I'm at an age where I have less life in front of me than I have behind. I too, like Bowhunter 45, migrated out here from Pennsylvania, and I love the hunting opportunities here. Growing up, and hunting whitetails in Penna. was great fun, but when work brought me out here, the public land accessibilities are great. Yeah, there are areas where it gets a bit crowded, but dig your maps out and find those areas which aren't. I hate to say this, but it's been my observation that a lot of hunter's don't seem to want to be more than a half mile from their rig. I've found out that by going a mile more beyond that, and I've uncovered some really good hunting. We have a lot of Corps of Engineer resivoirs here in the Willamette Valley, and I found some real good deer hunting between the roads which go around them and the edge of the water. It's so obvious that it's overlooked, and you'd be surprised at the number of deer found there. The deer figure out those locations real quick. When you have lived and hunted in a state where on opening day, statewide, there are a million plus other deer hunters out there. Lot's of elbow room here in the west. I think there's always room for improvement in any states hunting program, but enjoy what you have. Good huntin' to ya! :tup: Dale