Post by: Gobble Doc on May 09, 2012, 09:03:39 PM
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20120426/BLOG48/704269999
Post by: mfswallace on May 09, 2012, 09:06:42 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 09, 2012, 09:08:03 PM
Post by: stickbuck on May 09, 2012, 10:22:52 PM
Post by: Special T on May 09, 2012, 11:49:50 PM
Post by: Humptulips on May 10, 2012, 12:13:39 AM
The Mt goat is responsible for several plant species in the Oly Pen Going extinct. :twocents:
So could you name them because I don't believe that is true. Enlighten me.
Post by: Houndhunter on May 10, 2012, 12:18:27 AM
The Mt goat is responsible for several plant species in the Oly Pen Going extinct. :twocents:
So could you name them because I don't believe that is true. Enlighten me.
Im also interested in your statement, not doubting you but id like to see the evidence to back that up. Im not sure what to think about there never being goats in the olympics, I know we planted some there but I have a hard time believing that one never wondered up in that range on its own
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 10, 2012, 02:16:14 AM
I don't know the plants, but have heard there are some alpine mosses/lichens that are severely impacted by the goats. Also supposedly some high lake amphibians that are becoming rare because of the lakes being stocked with trout. :dunno:The Mt goat is responsible for several plant species in the Oly Pen Going extinct. :twocents:
So could you name them because I don't believe that is true. Enlighten me.
Post by: MikeWalking on May 10, 2012, 02:36:09 AM
The Mt goat is responsible for several plant species in the Oly Pen Going extinct. :twocents:
I've been hearing the Forest/Park Service complain about their impact for a long time.
Post by: jackelope on May 10, 2012, 05:40:57 AM
http://rdpayne.drizzlehosting.com/opa-mtngoat.html
Post by: bow boy on May 10, 2012, 05:57:13 AM
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
Post by: turkeydancer on May 10, 2012, 07:35:32 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Don't ever believe what you read in newspapers ... it's anything said that will sell their papers ....
:yike:
Post by: Tom Tamer on May 10, 2012, 07:36:26 AM
Post by: Special T on May 10, 2012, 07:40:32 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 10, 2012, 08:05:02 AM
If they allowed hunting by permit to reduce goat numbers, problem solved regarding the number of goats impacting the landscape.
Post by: lokidog on May 10, 2012, 08:20:00 AM
What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
Completely agree with the cat thing. There are some bamboos that are not invasive, but this is a list of animals. They don't list Northern Pike either.
Post by: bearpaw on May 10, 2012, 09:02:33 AM
What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
Completely agree with the cat thing. There are some bamboos that are not invasive, but this is a list of animals. They don't list Northern Pike either.
:yeah:
In Australia and New Zealand feral housecats are regarded as one of the worst predators on native birds and small animals. It is just as bad here in the US, housecats are probably the worst invasive animal in America.
Post by: rasbo on May 10, 2012, 09:27:41 AM
In rasbo land,the cats that invaid said horseshoe pit,use up their 9th life...zero respect for cats here....What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
Completely agree with the cat thing. There are some bamboos that are not invasive, but this is a list of animals. They don't list Northern Pike either.
:yeah:
In Australia and New Zealand feral housecats are regarded as one of the worst predators on native birds and small animals. It is just as bad here in the US, housecats are probably the worst invasive animal in America.
Post by: bearpaw on May 10, 2012, 09:33:32 AM
In taxidermy shops in AU I saw mounted house cats. The shoulder mounts of a snarling putty cat were particularly interesting. :chuckle:
But in Washington you could go to jail for shooting the most invasive specie. :yike:
Post by: Humptulips on May 10, 2012, 10:03:14 AM
The Mt goat is responsible for several plant species in the Oly Pen Going extinct. :twocents:
This from the NPS white paper Jackalope posted.
"One plant species is known to be threatened with extinction, the Olympic milkvetch (Astragulus australis var. olympicus)."
"Until a plant actually goes extinct, scientists have no way of proving that mountain goats will cause extinction of native plant species."
So it would appear Mountain Goats not quite as bad as advertised.
The problem to me is there is no management of the goats. People like to see a few goats when they hike in the park but when there are too many they need a hunting season. I believe they could if they really wanted to. They payed sharpshooters to kill them in their failed attempt to exterminate them.
Post by: Gobble Doc on May 10, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
I remember once talking to the county about noxious weeds. I asked him why bamboo didn't qualify. His reply: "that stuff scares the hell out of me..." Then explained that there are bamboo societies and political lobbies for bamboo and regardless of the science no one would ever classify bamboo as a noxious weed. Talking about the non-bunching type of bamboo here.
It just made me cringe to look at the local paper and see turkeys thrown into the bin of animals that people should consider invasive and therefore not a good thing...
Post by: Shoffy on May 10, 2012, 12:25:46 PM
What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
I believe that the extinction of wild Ring Neck Pheasants in Western Washington has been partly due to house cats. That combined with lack of grain farming and of course cold wet springs. I've heard there use to be a lot of pheasants in Western Washington back in the 60's and 70's
Post by: runamuk on May 10, 2012, 12:34:32 PM
What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
I believe that the extinction of wild Ring Neck Pheasants in Western Washington has been partly due to house cats. That combined with lack of grain farming and of course cold wet springs. I've heard there use to be a lot of pheasants in Western Washington back in the 60's and 70's
Pheasant are technically another introduced invasive species and they aren't really meant to live on the wetside the climate and conditions are not ideal for the species. All pheasant came from China originally not native to this country.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 10, 2012, 12:50:26 PM
In rasbo land,the cats that invaid said horseshoe pit,use up their 9th life...zero respect for cats here....Sounds like a cool place.
I read once that cats kill over a billion birds in the US annually. They kill more than most of the other sources combined.
The greenies on the OP have been using the goats as reasoning for why we need wolves in the olympics. They think the wolves will get rid of the goat problem---probably as soon as they've eaten all the other critters.
Post by: bearpaw on May 10, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
Post by: runamuk on May 10, 2012, 01:01:20 PM
In rasbo land,the cats that invaid said horseshoe pit,use up their 9th life...zero respect for cats here....Sounds like a cool place.
I read once that cats kill over a billion birds in the US annually. They kill more than most of the other sources combined.
The greenies on the OP have been using the goats as reasoning for why we need wolves in the olympics. They think the wolves will get rid of the goat problem---probably as soon as they've eaten all the other critters.
wolves dont normally target goats even where that is one of the main prey species they still dont target them for one wolves are not designed for the levitation required to go where goats can go :bash: :bash: wolves are designed to run down and tackle in a more open setting. Kinda like the idea of a linebacker being a successful jockey sure it could be done but its gonna leave a lot to be desired. :dunno:
yes feral cats are absolutely destructive of songbird populations, and their usefulness as mouse and rat killers has become negligible in urban areas, they used to be wanted and useful at keeping down rodents which carried fleas which spread things like the bubonic plague... we have other more efficient means of rodent control in urban areas now.
Post by: Shoffy on May 10, 2012, 01:07:17 PM
What about house cats?
It's all political, not scientific.
Bamboo? Nope.
I believe that the extinction of wild Ring Neck Pheasants in Western Washington has been partly due to house cats. That combined with lack of grain farming and of course cold wet springs. I've heard there use to be a lot of pheasants in Western Washington back in the 60's and 70's
Pheasant are technically another introduced invasive species and they aren't really meant to live on the wetside the climate and conditions are not ideal for the species. All pheasant came from China originally not native to this country.
True. They are introduced from China, but are they invasive? To me invasive species is defined by a species causes change in the ecosystem where native species cannot compete with the introduced species.
It's kind of wild to think most upland birds are introduced from somewhere
Post by: turkeydancer on May 10, 2012, 02:14:02 PM
To me invasive species is defined by a species causes change in the ecosystem where native species cannot compete with the introduced species.
[/quote]
:yeah: Someone should educate WDFW that the turkeys then are not an invasive species. The only thing Mick is concerned with is that he doesn't receive any complaints from anybody concerning turkeys. Many in that organization would just like to see all turkeys eradicated. But then what would their precious wolves eat ? Pheasant? Cats? Deer? Elk?
:yike:
Post by: Wacenturion on May 10, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Of course they could have also called Olympia, but my bet is on the local office. That's just the type of crap that gives an unknowing public a seriously wrong message about "wild" turkeys.
Someone locally should take the paper to task and force a retraction. Bowhunter.....?
Post by: str8meat on May 10, 2012, 03:28:36 PM
Post by: buglebuster on May 10, 2012, 04:21:46 PM
Brook Trout
Cottontail
Mountain Goat
Turkey
Bullfrog
Post by: lokidog on May 10, 2012, 09:15:17 PM
Post by: Gobble Doc on May 11, 2012, 08:45:39 AM
Why are there restrictions by WDFW on how bullfrogs can be taken if they are invasive?
"Bullfrogs may only be taken by angling, hand dip netting, gigging, and bow and arrow."
Post by: KopperBuck on May 11, 2012, 09:24:20 AM
Why are there restrictions by WDFW on how bullfrogs can be taken if they are invasive?
"Bullfrogs may only be taken by angling, hand dip netting, gigging, and bow and arrow."
$$$$
Brookies can swamp out a fishery. Bullfrogs can dominate their ecosystem.
But where are the wolves?? :chuckle:
Invasive is non-native. Period. Problem is society dictates what they choose is acceptable or not. Go sit in on your local weed board meeting sometime. That worries me much more than turkeys and cottontails, but I'm only prioritizing. The mussels and snails scare the absolute crap out of me - as well as the snakeheads. They are all the real deal.
Post by: bobcat on May 11, 2012, 09:26:17 AM
Post by: Holg3107 on May 11, 2012, 09:38:09 AM
Post by: Cuda on May 11, 2012, 09:57:29 AM
a few that leave me wondering why they are on the list:
Brook Trout
Cottontail
Mountain Goat
Turkey
Bullfrog
Eastern brook trout are not native to the state (or the west for that matter). They are very prolific outside of their native range and successful at outcompeting native trout species where there is overlap. Additionally brook trout can hybridize with certain native and nonnative fish species. Interestingly brook trout are struggling in parts of their native range (back east).
Post by: Curly on May 11, 2012, 10:22:56 AM
Rainbow trout are not native in many of the lakes and streams that the state now stocks them in. They compete and have probably wiped out many native species of fish, so I suppose rainbow trout should be considered "invasive."
I agree.
And I hate to say this but what about Largemouth and smallmouth bass...........and walleye? I love fishing for them and they are doing well thanks in part to the dams on the Columbia River and Snake Rivers, but they are not native. Bass were stocked by bucket biologist in this state many years ago. Hell, they do better than rainbows in most of the state. 8)
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 12, 2012, 03:44:56 PM
Post by: JLS on May 12, 2012, 03:55:10 PM
Why are there restrictions by WDFW on how bullfrogs can be taken if they are invasive?
"Bullfrogs may only be taken by angling, hand dip netting, gigging, and bow and arrow."
How many animals could we add to this list?
Chukars, pheasants, hungarian partridge, walleye, rainbow trout, brown trout, tiger trout, brook trout, bass, crappie, list ad nauseam......
Is it hypocritical? Sure. But how much more hunting and fishing opportunity to we have with these?