Post by: bearpaw on May 21, 2012, 06:51:26 PM
(Columbus, OH) –California Senate Bill 1221, a bill that will ban the use of hounds to hunt black bears and bobcats, passed the state’s Senate today. The passage of SB 1221 by the senate casts a dark cloud over the future of all hunting and wildlife management in California. Senate Bill 1221 passed with a vote of 22 to 15 in favor.
The bill, which is sponsored by the radical animal rights group Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), triggered a strong outpouring of opposition from California sportsmen and women, plus sportsmen’s organizations, in the state and nationwide. The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance (USSA) denounced this retaliatory wildlife management bill that was created when HSUS could not have a state game commissioner removed for his legal mountain lion hunt. As the bill moved forward from introduction and through the hearing process, hundreds of opponents wearing orange “NO on SB 1221” buttons also packed the corridors of the capital to let their Senators know they opposed this anti-hunting bill.
“The California Senate today chose retribution and revenge over sound science-based wildlife management,” explained Evan Heusinkveld, USSA’s director of state services. “Despite having a Fish and Game Commission explicitly designed to handle these questions free from the politics of the statehouse, the California Senate voted in favor of a hunting ban.”
USSA has been working with the Masters of Foxhounds Association, California Houndsmen for Conservation and the California Outdoor Heritage Alliance to defeat SB 1221.
Fast Facts on SB 1221
• The bill would outlaw the use of hounds to hunt bears and bobcats.
• Hunting bears and bobcats with hounds has been legal since the state formally organized a game commission and established game management and hunting laws.
• Hounds are actually used in wildlife management practices and projects.
• Hunters using hounds to pursue bears actually take fewer bears than is recommended by the state’s game department.
• This bill is being pushed by the radical animal rights group—the Humane Society of the United States—the same group that has pushed anti-farming and puppy mill bills in California in the past.
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 21, 2012, 06:58:55 PM
Post by: TONTO on May 21, 2012, 07:02:39 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
Thats exactly how it got outlawed in WA.
Post by: 3nails on May 21, 2012, 07:07:09 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.:o
Post by: mtman on May 21, 2012, 07:08:22 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 21, 2012, 07:09:57 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
That kind of response right there is exactly how we will lose our hunting completely.... The "I do not hunt that way, so no skin off my nose" attitude....
So when they come after your way of hunting, if the rest of us say... that ain't hunting to me.. go ahead, take it away... how you gonna feel?
Post by: 3nails on May 21, 2012, 07:10:57 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.:stirthepot: :dunno:
Post by: singleshot12 on May 21, 2012, 07:13:20 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
I think his point is the hounds are doing the actual hunting and not the shooter :dunno:
Post by: bucklucky on May 21, 2012, 07:13:44 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on May 21, 2012, 07:17:13 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
Wow! Educate yourself on this first before you make rash statements. The ban we saw in Washington State caused a lot of heart ache. One step closer to tightening the noose on hunting in general.
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=8109)
Post by: coastie hunter on May 21, 2012, 07:28:42 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 21, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
That kind of response right there is exactly how we will lose our hunting completely.... The "I do not hunt that way, so no skin off my nose" attitude....
So when they come after your way of hunting, if the rest of us say... that ain't hunting to me.. go ahead, take it away... how you gonna feel?
Huntbear explained my feelings well. It is specifically this attitude that splits hunters and is destroying all our hunting traditions. It's simply amazing to me that anyone can still be this narrow minded after all the losses of opprtunity that have been suffered by so many usergroups. I need to stop writing or I will say something I probably shouldn't. Please read my signature... :dunno:
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Curly on May 21, 2012, 07:37:47 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
That kind of response right there is exactly how we will lose our hunting completely.... The "I do not hunt that way, so no skin off my nose" attitude....
So when they come after your way of hunting, if the rest of us say... that ain't hunting to me.. go ahead, take it away... how you gonna feel?
+1
Post by: stuckalot on May 21, 2012, 07:39:08 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
I can't figure out if that statement is more ignorant, or arrogant :dunno:
I've never hunted with hounds, can't really say that I'd want to, but I certainly wouldn't disparage anyone who does, and they are invaluable as a management tool!
Like others have said, divided we all fall!
Post by: mtman on May 21, 2012, 07:49:36 PM
It is just like a bow hunter saying rifles are unsporting, its to easy. Everybody draws the line somewere. I like to hunt with rifles, bows, muzzleloaders and dogs. Never got to hunt for anything but rabbits with dogs. I would love to hunt bears with dogs but i will probably never get to. I just hope I can save up the money to do it OUT OF STATE before it is outlawed everywere.
Post by: B Mo on May 21, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 21, 2012, 07:53:32 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.WHAT ? :yike: HAVE YOU EVER HUNTED WITH HOUNDS ? Far cry from being easy ... just go and chase a pack of hounds chasing a bear or cougar and see how easy it is !!! :yeah:
Post by: singleshot12 on May 21, 2012, 08:09:17 PM
Personally, the concept of hound hunting for bear does not get my jollies off, and I would not choose to participate in this state if it were made legal again (I prefer to spend time in the berries looking for bear...plenty effective). That being said, hound hunting is an effective management tool, and this bill is extremely unfair to the hound hunters in CA who've invested immeasurable amounts of money on their dogs and equipment. Hunting should be managed and regulated by sportsmen and biologists and involve science, rather than politicians and animal rights groups involving politics and emotions. :twocents:
:yeah: Very well said
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on May 22, 2012, 07:33:29 AM
Post by: Special T on May 22, 2012, 10:58:20 AM
Part of the reason we are infighting is the reduction of the resource, GAME... If we band together and fight for PREDATOR MGT then we will ALL have more opportunity. This is part of how the ANTI's are screwing us. Resource allowocation, and then reducing the recource so that we fight for the scaps left over. :twocents:
Post by: JLS on May 22, 2012, 11:04:27 AM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
So am I not really hunting pheasants when I use my dog?
Post by: Special T on May 22, 2012, 12:13:38 PM
Post by: FSTaxidermy on May 22, 2012, 12:15:46 PM
If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it. Fred Bear.
:twocents:
Post by: Houndhunter on May 22, 2012, 12:59:56 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 22, 2012, 01:05:38 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.You're clearly ignorant. Come on out and do a hound hunt then we'll what tune you're singing.
Post by: bearpaw on May 22, 2012, 01:11:09 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.You're clearly ignorant. Come on out and do a hound hunt then we'll what tune you're singing.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Great comment WaCoyote, I was thinking how great it would be if we could offer some of these people a chance to go on a hound hunt just to take photos. No killing, just a pursuit hunt to understand what a hound hunter gets out of the sport. If we had more coons in my area I would be willing to donate my time to do this just so people can see what a great sport hound hunting is.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 22, 2012, 01:13:41 PM
I always offer (challenge?) anti hound hunters to come along- no guns, just pictures. I have never had one show.
Post by: bearpaw on May 22, 2012, 01:29:20 PM
More than anything it would be good to take out hunters or non-hunters who are on the fence and do not know what to think. For me hunting with dogs whether for birds, big game, or small game is as good as hunting can get. I was even able to take my Sambar in Australia with walker hounds, that was one of the funnest deer hunts I have ever done. :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on May 22, 2012, 01:30:29 PM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 22, 2012, 07:51:08 PM
Post by: Huntbear on May 22, 2012, 08:14:39 PM
All depends on your definition of " fair chase". To me the dog is the hunter not the guy carrying the gun. Yes a very effective tool for managing populations. Just nor a huge fan of it. We are all entitled to our opinions and if you guys wanna call me ignorant so be it but I will call myself a realist. Thanks
So I take it from your response, that you would never use a dog duck or goose hunting, or for pheasant, chukar or quail???? After all, the dog is doing the hunting or retrieving... you are just shooting...
Post by: Humptulips on May 22, 2012, 08:21:22 PM
All depends on your definition of " fair chase". To me the dog is the hunter not the guy carrying the gun. Yes a very effective tool for managing populations. Just nor a huge fan of it. We are all entitled to our opinions and if you guys wanna call me ignorant so be it but I will call myself a realist. Thanks
You don't understand. I can see that. The dog and the hunter are a team. It's not just following a dog to a tree.
There's a lot of training. Many days afield with nothing to show for it but the experience. Then when everything clicks there's keeping up with the dogs. You have to get to the tree in a timely fashion and that can test your cardio training.
I used to have a hound and he was my best buddy. Spent a lot of shoe leather with that dog and came home empty handed most of the time but those times when you make it to the tree and see a cat looking down at you beat the excitement of any other hunt I've been on. The pride in your dog and the feeling of acomplishment makes all the work worth it.
It may not be your cup of tea but don't say it isn't Fair Chase.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 22, 2012, 08:28:26 PM
Post by: bare.hunter on May 22, 2012, 08:35:09 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.It was hunters just like you that we hound men beged for help during our fight and got nothing but BS like this.I hope you never lose the type of hunting you love because the hound men of washington did.
Post by: ICEMAN on May 22, 2012, 08:36:37 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on May 22, 2012, 08:42:59 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.It was hunters just like you that we hound men beged for help during our fight and got nothing but BS like this.I hope you never lose the type of hunting you love because the hound men of washington did.
Hard to argue with that. :tup:
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 22, 2012, 09:23:05 PM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on May 22, 2012, 09:29:18 PM
I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
I can't figure out if that statement is more ignorant, or arrogant :dunno:
I've never hunted with hounds, can't really say that I'd want to, but I certainly wouldn't disparage anyone who does, and they are invaluable as a management tool!
Like others have said, divided we all fall!
:yeah:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 22, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/mountain-lion-killed-downtown-santa-monica-190528352.html
When will these banners get the connection?
Post by: Wenatcheejay on May 22, 2012, 10:01:39 PM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on May 22, 2012, 10:32:37 PM
And then we see this story.
http://news.yahoo.com/mountain-lion-killed-downtown-santa-monica-190528352.html
When will these banners get the connection?
I find it ironic that every time this happens- they claim that the tranquilizer didn't work so they had to kill it. You would think the right doses would be figured out by now.
Post by: predatorpro on May 22, 2012, 10:38:58 PM
just like how im sure he swims out and retrieves his own ducks or sniffs out pheasants by himself while the dog stays warm in the truck...I don't call it hunting if using hounds.
I think his point is the hounds are doing the actual hunting and not the shooter :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on May 22, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
All depends on your definition of " fair chase". To me the dog is the hunter not the guy carrying the gun. Yes a very effective tool for managing populations. Just nor a huge fan of it. We are all entitled to our opinions and if you guys wanna call me ignorant so be it but I will call myself a realist. Thanks
Everyone is entitled to think and feel as they wish. One thing you may have overlooked is that a lot of hound hunting does not involve shooting the animal, sorta like catch and release fishing. The enjoyment is mostly in catching the fish, thumping the fish on the head is only necessary if you plan on eating him.
Post by: bobcat on May 22, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
Post by: Chase 1 on May 22, 2012, 11:10:25 PM
All depends on your definition of " fair chase". To me the dog is the hunter not the guy carrying the gun. Yes a very effective tool for managing populations. Just nor a huge fan of it. We are all entitled to our opinions and if you guys wanna call me ignorant so be it but I will call myself a realist. Thanks
You are exactly the kind of guy that really needs a site like this. Stay on, keep reading, and get educated! Hope you see the light. Try reading this thread with an open mind in two days and then reconsider. If that doesn't do it...consider yourself part of the problem.
Post by: Limhangerslayer on May 22, 2012, 11:31:42 PM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 23, 2012, 06:39:18 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on May 23, 2012, 07:01:26 AM
Where did I mention I wouldn't support them? One of my good friends is an old hound hunter so please don't tell me I don't know. I just don't call it "hunting". So let me put this in ELEMENTARY terms for some of you. I support them but don't consider it hunting. In duck & goose hunting the dog usually retrieves the animal big difference. Some of you just automatically assume things and think in a simple mind. Please don't make more out of it than what it is. I personally don't consider it "hunting" simple as that nothing more nothing less.
If that is the case then if it had been stated that you are against the bill but wouldn't hunt in this manner due to your personal ethics I don't think to much would have been said. :tup:
(Sidenote)
Loony liberal ideology dominates California. The HSUS should not have tax exempt status. That is the problem. These radical organizations run ramped these days in the halls of our government and corrupt the system unchecked. The only solution is to start suing the Agencies and States just like the other side does. If the Government goes bankrupt or can not function, good. I like what the SAF is doing and I hope more of it continues.
WTF are these liberal, vegan, soy/tofu eating, pea brains, who what to tell us how to live our lives to be 100% healthy and in touch with mother earth going to do when they are old & in the hospital and dying of nothing?!
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2012, 07:04:27 AM
Quote
to engage in the pursuit, capture, or killing of wild animals for food or in sport.
In my simple mind there is no doubt it meets that simple definition. Whatever though. I don't really care what you call it. It's hunting.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 23, 2012, 07:14:08 AM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 23, 2012, 07:14:09 AM
Post by: rasbo on May 23, 2012, 07:18:48 AM
Post by: Special T on May 23, 2012, 07:31:52 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 23, 2012, 07:52:30 AM
Well It is Hunting! The STATE says so! If i can't go with one of the hound hunter form this forum for a "chase" and take some pics while leaving the gun at home then it is hunting. :twocents:yes!
Post by: singleshot12 on May 23, 2012, 07:56:45 AM
I've never had the opportunity to hunt bear or coons with dogs but have hunted plenty of rabbits,upland, and waterfowl with dogs and must say the biggest thrill is to see the dogs work and hunt for you. The worst part about a hound hunt ban is the dogs loose their job.
Post by: Curly on May 23, 2012, 08:09:57 AM
The only thing about the CA bill, is that I'm surprised that hound hunting isn't already illegal down there. How did WA and OR outlaw hunting with hounds before CA did? I thought they were always the first to ban things? :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on May 23, 2012, 08:14:37 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 23, 2012, 08:17:28 AM
Post by: Curly on May 23, 2012, 08:17:40 AM
CA was the first to ban cougar hunting about 20-25 years ago but then they have failed on getting bear. When they came to WA they put them together and convinced voters to ban it all at once.
Oh, thanks for clearing that up for me. Makes more sense now.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on May 23, 2012, 08:39:23 AM
CA was the first to ban cougar hunting about 20-25 years ago but then they have failed on getting bear. When they came to WA they put them together and convinced voters to ban it all at once.
Which 2 issues on an initiative is illegal (accept in this issue.) :rolleyes:
HSUS is a political machine. People think that it is all about "the animals" but it isn't. We don't need hunters anymore. 20 years ago if you were told you will pay $40 bucks to drive into a State Park you would have told the State to take their park and go F themselves. But now, these days if it keeps us safe from terrorism we will pay whatever we are told to pay. :devil:
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 23, 2012, 09:51:01 AM
Post by: bonkellekter on May 23, 2012, 10:18:46 AM
My uncle has run hounds for many years, I was able to go on my first hound hunt for cougar at age 12, probably one of the most physically demanding types of hunting I have been involved with! Trying to keep up with the hounds in snow past ur waste! This particular cat treed within the first 2 miles but bailed right as we got to the tree... Didn't tree after that for close to another 8 miles... We ran several other cats that didn't work out due to kittens timing and such before I was able to notch my tag. Watching the dogs work is the most exhilerating part of the whole show!!
If you have been then I can respect (yet disagree with) your position... IMHO you cannot judge it til you've done it!! Give it a shot!!
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on May 23, 2012, 11:02:10 AM
Post by: Special T on May 23, 2012, 01:07:36 PM