Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Alaskan on June 09, 2012, 07:43:01 AM

Title: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Alaskan on June 09, 2012, 07:43:01 AM: Hey guys,
One more question. Realistically, how far should I expect my muzzleloader to shoot (TC PRO HUNTER). I want to hit the range and get my scope zero'd in. Not sure if I should get zero'd in at 75, 100, or :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:150.........
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2012, 07:46:48 AM: Well if you have a scope on it you must be hunting a different state, because you cannot hunt with one here... I know guys that shoot out to 250+ yards with one of those Nikon BDC for smokepoles. :twocents:
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: bobcat on June 09, 2012, 07:49:59 AM: Maximum for me is about 120 yards, but I really prefer 75 yards or less.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Bigtine96 on June 09, 2012, 08:11:20 AM: I killed my bull last year at 175 yards, which in my opinion is to far but it was the only shot I had so I took it because I had practiced for a long shot. 150 grains of powder and a copper jacketed sabot round is what I was shooting
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: washelkhunter on June 09, 2012, 08:14:44 AM: Ill shoot out to 120 with 100 grs powder and 320gr lead conical 45/50 sabot.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: funkster on June 09, 2012, 08:29:35 AM: Quote from: bobcat on June 09, 2012, 07:49:59 AM
Maximum for me is about 120 yards, but I really prefer 75 yards or less.

Same here,I really feel comfortable at 75 but coming from archery, the closer the better.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Sabotloader on June 09, 2012, 10:16:51 AM: Quote from: Alaskan on June 09, 2012, 07:43:01 AM
Hey guys,
One more question. Realistically, how far should I expect my muzzleloader to shoot (TC PRO HUNTER). I want to hit the range and get my scope zero'd in. Not sure if I should get zero'd in at 75, 100, or :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:150.........

I am glad you through the word 'realistically' in there because - backi in the midwest there are guys using tactical scopes and shooting and harvesting deer at 400 yards with just regular inline muzzleloaders.

My self imposed range is 200 yards + depending on the external circumstances - the external circumstance have a larger effect than you might think. Another main concern for is the amount of energy left in the bullet @ long ranges. They can loose velocity and energy rapidly out at those ranges.

So an explanation... I said 200 + is my self imposed range and that is with a scoped ML, a heavy load like what I might use for elk, 120 grain T7 and a 300 grain bullet. The RIFLE is perfectly capable of doing this and the load will provide the energy. The next all or most of the other external conditions must meet my thoughts.

With open sights (a Williams FP Peep sight) and using the same load - 150 yards is the limit but I could stretch that to 175 if everything were right.

Sighting in... because I know I could and would take a shot to 200+ yards - I sight the rifle in using a method called PBR (Point Blank Range). I set my sight in to a 6" PBR. So from 0 yards to about 175 yards I am never lower than 3" and never higher than 3". What it normally works out is that at a 100 yards I am normally 2 3/4" to 3" high. I know this and take that all in account when shooting.

Here is a ballistic table that shows my elk load...

From this you can see that I can hold directly on from 0 to 190 yards and be within my PBR. At 160 yards I should be dead on... but in truth at a 160 yards with the external forces across the bullet path I good with 1 1/2" of POI.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FBallistic%2520Sheets%2FLehigh458-300.jpg&hash=7a7b1992f857b705159f4cf730b7408660c260ad)
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: adamR on June 09, 2012, 12:19:13 PM: I did alot of practicing out to 200 yards last year and my only shot opportunity for my bull was 150 yards, Because of the practice I felt comfortable and took this shot. Dropped my bull at 150 yards.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Alaskan on June 09, 2012, 01:19:12 PM: Thanks guys! Most ranges allow you to shoot out to 200yds, so i will focus on that range being my max. Im hunting New Mexico this year, that's why I am using a scope.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: bobcat on June 09, 2012, 03:23:22 PM: With the right muzzleloader, and the right load, AND a scope, I do think 200 yards is do-able.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Pathfinder101 on June 09, 2012, 04:03:39 PM: Thanks for the data tables Sabotloader. I sight in all my rifles for MPBR, so I was planning on doing 3" high at 100 yds anyway, but it's nice to know that is the "right" answer.
PathfinderJR and I made it out to shoot last weekend. I bought him a used Winchester X 150 .50 cal, but it had the wrong nipple (just replaced that today), so we could only shoot my TC. He was dead-nuts-on with my gun at 100, so that is encouraging. :tup: I loaded him up with 100 gr of Pyrodex and a 300 gr Powerbelt and it didn't kick the crap out of him. He was kind of nervous for the first shot, but after a couple of rounds he said "Hey dad, this is actually pretty fun."
Just found out yesterday that we both drew muzzy cow tags, so it'll be time to get back to the range as soon as we get a nice day.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: ellensburgpo on June 09, 2012, 08:44:42 PM: With the restrictions in this state and my current set up I have imposed a 100 yard limit on myself.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on June 11, 2012, 11:57:27 AM: Target shooting I go to 300 yds. Hunting I try to keep it around 200.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 11, 2012, 09:27:06 PM: I plan to get out the chronograph and put the muzzle velocity into the Barnes program to see where the bullet will be at 100, 150.
I should be at about 2500 feet and the temp will probably be in the 20's come December.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 11, 2012, 09:30:42 PM: Quote from: Pathfinder101 on June 09, 2012, 04:03:39 PM
Thanks for the data tables Sabotloader. I sight in all my rifles for MPBR, so I was planning on doing 3" high at 100 yds anyway, but it's nice to know that is the "right" answer.
PathfinderJR and I made it out to shoot last weekend. I bought him a used Winchester X 150 .50 cal, but it had the wrong nipple (just replaced that today), so we could only shoot my TC. He was dead-nuts-on with my gun at 100, so that is encouraging. :tup: I loaded him up with 100 gr of Pyrodex and a 300 gr Powerbelt and it didn't kick the crap out of him. He was kind of nervous for the first shot, but after a couple of rounds he said "Hey dad, this is actually pretty fun."
Just found out yesterday that we both drew muzzy cow tags, so it'll be time to get back to the range as soon as we get a nice day.
So you are using powerbelts too. I am looking at 275 grains. Those platinums look promising.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: 400out on June 11, 2012, 09:39:21 PM: REALLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! :bash:
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: h2ofowlr on June 11, 2012, 10:12:14 PM: I won't take a shot over 200 yards on an animal as we are using iron sites and I know I can get closer. So far, I haven't had to harvest an animal over 80 yards with my muzzy. I shot competition with my muzzy out to 500 yards down at Douglas Ridge in Portland. There is a good arch to the bullet trajectory at that range.

Practice wise I like to shoot out to 250 while at the range. It's always good to learn your capabilities with the rifle in hand. I have my ballistics marked on the side of my rifle as well.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Pathfinder101 on June 11, 2012, 10:35:32 PM: Quote from: HoofsandWings on June 11, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
Quote from: Pathfinder101 on June 09, 2012, 04:03:39 PM
Thanks for the data tables Sabotloader. I sight in all my rifles for MPBR, so I was planning on doing 3" high at 100 yds anyway, but it's nice to know that is the "right" answer.
PathfinderJR and I made it out to shoot last weekend. I bought him a used Winchester X 150 .50 cal, but it had the wrong nipple (just replaced that today), so we could only shoot my TC. He was dead-nuts-on with my gun at 100, so that is encouraging. :tup: I loaded him up with 100 gr of Pyrodex and a 300 gr Powerbelt and it didn't kick the crap out of him. He was kind of nervous for the first shot, but after a couple of rounds he said "Hey dad, this is actually pretty fun."
Just found out yesterday that we both drew muzzy cow tags, so it'll be time to get back to the range as soon as we get a nice day.
So you are using powerbelts too. I am looking at 275 grains. Those platinums look promising.

For elk, I think I am going to stick with the 300 gr. I want to retain ft-lbs...
Title: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Chesapeake on June 11, 2012, 10:47:41 PM: Never shot an elk past 150, but have killed a few in the 140 to 150 range. I currently shoot the 340 grain dead center plastic tip bullet. I like their 360 hollow point also. These are about the most accurate arrow dynamic bullets out there since buffalo bullets left the scene. 300 grains is borderline light in my mind for elk, especially when reaching out there.
Hitting out at 200 isn't an issue. Energy and velocity is though. Deer would be fine, but after seeing several elk killed out around 150 I'm not sure I'd push it to 200. Maybe if things were perfect. A low shoulder shot down in the thick part of the scapula at 200 could be bad.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: SteelheadDC on June 21, 2012, 10:37:32 AM: With washingtons rules the limiting factor is the sights, at 150 yards my dove tails cover half an elk. this limits me with accuracy to 120 yards. I have a friend in Northern Alberta who shoots a ML with a scope closed ignition system and smokeless powder and groups 3 inches at 200 yards. I always joke with him saying he cant call it a ML but a single shot rifle.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: KopperBuck on June 21, 2012, 10:47:00 AM: You can use a scope in WA. You can use 209s as well. Just saying........... :chuckle:

As to your question, it's a pretty simple answer. Whatever you're comfortable with depending on your own accuracy, with a pinch of ballistics thrown in. My comfort level is not the same as the next guy's, but that doesn't mean that either of us are wrong. Do your homework and you'll figure it out. Figure in a fudge error attributed to higher adrenaline than shooting paper.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: RoyBoy on June 21, 2012, 11:33:03 AM: it all depends on the Muzzy but id range from 180-250 yards
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Wacenturion on June 21, 2012, 12:19:39 PM: Many years ago while hunting elk in the Blues, I sighted my T/C Renegade .54 caliber in at a local range. For the heck of it after getting it where I wanted it, shot it out to 300 yards. No problem hitting the 10 inch metal plate at that range, every time.

Would I shoot at an animal at 300 yards. Hell no. My self imposed range maximum would be somewhere from 150-200 max, only if everything was perfect. Never have shot at anything over 120 yards with most being under 80. Most of the time there is always opportunities to get closer or have the animal move closer if you're doing things right.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Alaskan on June 22, 2012, 08:05:43 AM: Thanks guys,
I'm gonna get dialed in at 100, and then have a max out to 200. Currently putting half inch groups at 100. Gotta love the BH 209!
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: dvolmer on June 25, 2012, 11:11:56 PM: I have shot three elk and a dozen or so deer in this state with a muzzleloader and all of them have been between 10 to 90 yards. I am no marksman and shoot a Remington in-line 700-ML with 110 grains of tripple 7 and Power Belt bullets. I dont know how you all shoot out past 100 yards in this state without a scope. I dont know how you guys hit pie plates at 300 yards. Not saying you dont but my pin at the end of my gun out past 100 yards covers half the animal. I am not sure but would bet at 300 yards it would cover the whole animal and about 6 pie plates. When shooting elk size game you have to start wondering about foot pounds of energy and bullet penitration out past 120 yards or so if I am guessing right. I might be wrong and I know Muzzleloaders have come along way in the last few years but this is just what I have experienced hunting with them for the last 10 plus years. Long shots without a scope I feel are foolish and will end up with a lot of wounded animals. If you are going to take long shots I would reccomend a lot of time at the range. this will let you know what your gun can and cant do.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 26, 2012, 11:05:14 AM: I think those that shoot past 100 yards have much narrower front pins and probably peep sights with smaller diameter peeps.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: hunterrcc on June 26, 2012, 03:37:26 PM: Depends on gun, animal, open sights or scope, conditions, what type of rest you have, powder, bullet & much more.

Elk 210-250yards or less
Deer 165-200yards or less
Open sights, Inline TC, 100-150gr powder, 180-250 gr bullet. with dead rest on bipods on the ground laying down broad side shot standing still.

But I know my gun and shoot it a lot first couple years hunting with it 130yards was my max. But really most animals I have been able to get under 100yards pretty easy with a rifle and muzzleloader without trying real hard just use the wind and be quiet.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: jstone on June 26, 2012, 04:34:35 PM: 100 yards all day long, i have bow hunted for many many years. i can get that close. Why not try to get closer. To each his own. lots of times they will stand there at 100 or 120 and watch ya. Its under 100 that is the hard part.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Alaskan on June 26, 2012, 05:17:55 PM: Great point about closing the distance to 100-150 yards. However, last year when bow hunting in New Mexico, I had three seperate bulls bugeling across canyon's that were around 200-220. I am hunting in the same unit with a muzzy this year and hope the same opportunities that happened during archery season, will happen during muzzy!!!!

Thanks for the advice guys! Gonna keep it under 200!
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: jstone on June 26, 2012, 05:35:51 PM: Good luck on New Mexico. Thats on my bbucket list...
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Labs07 on August 22, 2012, 01:02:03 PM: I have killed a couple of deer out to 130 yards and an Elk at 50 yards but that is about as far as I would like to shoot with a muzzleloader although I know it can reach out futher but I prefer the shorert ranges.
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Kowsrule30 on August 31, 2012, 12:23:44 PM: I shot a deer at 192 yards once..... Thought it was 156.... Which is about my max with sights.... I hit some brush or a tree limb when ranging it.... The bullet just barley hit the bottom of the heart... 200+ yard blood trail down hill to the bottom of the ravene of course.... There was only a few ounces left in it's cavity while gutting... I was covered in blood following the trail through the brush... Dad thought I was in a fight with him.. Got damn lucky.... Now I make sure I get a true range and if I'm unsure with my estimation (can't get a good reading or no time to range) I just don't take the shot.... But way more comfortable if I can take shots less then 100 yards... Specially on deer.... Even my small sights seem like they damn near cover them up over 100 yards....
Title: Re: How far can you expect to shoot with a MUZZY???????
Post by: Natas5150 on September 06, 2012, 06:37:02 AM: At the range I wouls start sighting in at the 50yrd and move up from there. Personally I wouldn't shoot my smoke poll out past a 150yrd. I would rather kill the game humanly than wound it. I have read were some claim they can shoot there muzzy's 200yrds open sights. I have never seen it just read about it.

Thats just my take on it, and I am sure some will agree and some will disagree. It's what I am confortable with when shooting my muzzy.