Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 17, 2014, 11:21:36 AM
Post by: 4fletch on March 17, 2014, 10:46:54 PM
Post by: lokidog on March 17, 2014, 11:08:41 PM
I don't see a need to restrict magnification on a scope for a crossbpow within these parameters. :twocents:
Post by: Snapshot on March 21, 2014, 02:22:43 PM
http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html (http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html)
Post by: buckfvr on March 21, 2014, 03:47:59 PM
We cant do everything for everyone........I have a neighbor who hunts elk with an xbow, and deer with a 300win mag.........sound right to you ?????
There comes a time when the body wont function as we like, and it should be accepted........not compensated for with rules and regulations. WHen I can no longer draw and hold, I am done.....if I cant see my pins, I am done.....if I can no longer see through a rifle scope and rest that rifle on something to shoot, I am done.............unless ofcourse you guys want to accomodate me with rules and regulations that address old and tired and cant see..............
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 24, 2014, 07:55:57 AM
New York Bowhunters, Inc did it right regards to the crossbow...only the most severely, permanently disabled may qualify to use that weapon during archery season. Others can get a Modified Longbow Authorization that allows them to use the types of modified archery equipment that WSB fought hard to have legalized in Washington in the early part of the century.
http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html (http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/pc-committee.html)
We can use as many adjectives as we want such as "severely" and "permanently" but the language is similar to our state. It's not hard to get a doctor to say what is required in New York or WA state. There has to be some middle ground between Buckfvr's point of view and our current state. I do believe that many of our disabled hunters can pull a minimum draw weight bow at about 40 lbs. One should do all they can do to try and be legal with a bow first.
Post by: 4fletch on March 24, 2014, 07:44:22 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 24, 2014, 08:03:16 PM
I do agree with the part concerning our wounded warriors.......its the " pretend to be disabled " that riles me. I see a lot of dishonesty amongst the supposed to be disabled. We have to take care of those that need this program but need to weed out the turds.
Post by: RadSav on March 24, 2014, 08:43:57 PM
I am fine with truly disabled hunters using crossbows during archery season. Crossbows aren't more accurate and are not better long range tools. They are just easier to shoot and do not require the level of practice to become efficient. Don't even care if they are using scopes on them as that is imo balancing out their limitations to my own.
I do have a problem with guys driving around with loaded and cocked crossbows mounted to the hood of their vehicle. I see a few guys doing this in the Winston during late season. If they were dangers to just themselves I'd say who cares about idiots weeding themselves out of the gene pool. But some innocent bystander is probably going to be the one injured in this case. And all archers are going to take the hit when that story hits the news.
Scopes on crossbows during modern firearm season...what's the problem?
Post by: bobcat on March 24, 2014, 10:25:21 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 25, 2014, 09:11:06 AM
It's amazing how many "disabled" people hunting alone for deer/elk can't handle a bow or a 3 mile hike but can handle an elk or deer once it's down :dunno:
I watched a "disabled" hunter cap a doe with a Glock out his window on a county road and then throw it in his canopied truck bed. I confronted him but got told to "eff off, I'm disabled..." Well he did have the orange sticker :dunno:
Shortly thereafter he had blue and red lights in his rearview :yike: thank God for cellphones :chuckle:
Anyway, back on topic ;)
Post by: SquirrelHunter on March 25, 2014, 09:59:06 AM
I feel like people see the "disabled hunter" using the crossbow and are upset because they feel we have a "greater advantage" over the traditional archery user by adding distance or accuracy. Hunt the method you enjoy, or the method that you can physically handle, enjoy your hunt and let others enjoy theirs whether you agree with the method or not.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 25, 2014, 12:33:35 PM
Hunt the method you enjoy, or the method that you can physically handle, enjoy your hunt and let others enjoy theirs whether you agree with the method or not.
Ordinarily I would totally agree with this sentiment. However the reason this is a sticking point in this case is because scoped crossbows are a a major leap in technology (and ease of use ) that would translate to shorter archery seasons and less opportunity for everyone.
So if my method of hunting is to hunt everyday in September, I can't very well support the use of crossbows can I?
I think crossbows should really only be allowed for use in modern firearm seasons...not just in firearm restricted areas though. :twocents:
Post by: SquirrelHunter on March 25, 2014, 01:29:11 PM
WDFW even called to make sure I didn't want the authorization to use a scope before they sent me my permit, and we didnt even check the box or offer up any documentation of bad eyesight. So I really believe one of the biggest issues here is the monitoring of the issuing of permits.
Post by: Snapshot on March 28, 2014, 03:37:25 PM
I really think if anything, crossbows should at least be allowed during modern firearm season, ANYWHERE, not just firearm restricted areas. That makes absolutely no sense.
I agree...and that would take care of the scope issue once and for all.
Post by: Longbowz on March 29, 2014, 09:20:07 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on March 29, 2014, 10:40:02 AM
Those who are disabled can shoot from their vehicles, have special permits they can apply for etc.
If it came right down to it and I was severely disabled, with the help of a friend I could find a way to get into a blind and sit and wait. I've seen videos of all types of disabled hunters getting it done including a blind guy shooting a bear with a bow (being coached by the guy behind him where he was aiming, yes the pins were alters to allow for the backup to see)
I just don't know where to draw the line. I'm older and in less shape than I was 10 years ago so the state should let me use motorized vehicles in places they aren't allowed to compensate. IF they don't like that, maybe I should sue to make them take me up there piggy back :chuckle:
I just think that if I can no longer pull a bow back, I better look at going to modern firearm. :twocents:
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 31, 2014, 11:14:27 AM
Crossbows are really a separate weapon and best fit in the general (modern) season. If they want scopes or whatever in their season let them fight for it. It's not really bowhunters problem.
Excellent point!
Post by: washelkhunter on March 31, 2014, 11:19:57 AM
Post by: ghosthunter on March 31, 2014, 11:50:17 AM
Most game agents see it as a poaching tool.
As far as sights. The hunt populations eyes are getting weaker and I think Red dot should be allowed across the board. Crossbows, muzzy too.
We want to keep as many hunters as we can hunting as long as we can. It will be to everyone benefit. :twocents:
Post by: rover758 on May 06, 2014, 08:30:41 AM
First ... I am a disabled hunter and a disabled veteran after over 21 years in the military. Archery hunting is my first passion but, as my condition has deteriorated, I am physically unable to pull a bow back. I want to hunt and I want to hunt archery. That means with a crossbow. (There are plenty of hand cranks on the market that will allow me to cock the bow. As a personal choice, it wouldn't be cocked until I was set in my ground blind and it would be un-cocked before it goes back in the truck.) All that being said I can see the validity of those who think crossbow hunters should only use them during the modern firearm season. I have been doing my research on them and there is quite a bit of (manufacturer) boasting out there on their capabilities. I think those capabilities give weight to the opinion that crossbows should only be allowed for use during modern firearm. However, regardless of validity, that shuts me out of my passion. I agree with Sundance ... it's an ethical problem. I'm not looking for a loophole ... I'm looking to be able to continue to archery hunt. I would disagree with Jonathan_S in a matter of semantics. He termed the Glock operator a "hunter". I would not defile the those of us who call ourselves hunters with the truest sense of what that means by calling that individual a hunter. (I enjoyed reading the quote at the bottom of Snapshot. He has a clue as to what I mean ... although I obviously disagree I should have to move to modern firearm season.) Without a doubt, there will always be those who take advantage of the system for their own good and put the bulls eye on my back when I don't deserve it. My buddy shot a magnificent 6x7 bull two years ago and it shamed me that I carried 1 load out for every 3 of his. The pack-out was only a half mile from the truck and on the last load I went to my knees 100 yards short of the truck. I had given my all to every nuance of the hunt. It's enough that I can't look in the mirror any more and call myself "Bowhunter". Being a bowhunter was a sense of pride; it was a calling. You know what I mean. That feeling that makes you want to put a sticker up in your back window that says, "It's a Bow Hunting Thing ... You Wouldn't Understand." I'd at least like to still consider myself an archery hunter. Each person has to address their own personal ethics (or lack thereof) on using or abusing that Red Placard on the dashboard. Yes ... I split log-rounds in camp. I can do 2 or 3 and then I'm stoved up for 3 hours - that's the price I pay. I can hunt 3 miles out and 3 miles back but it takes me all day. I passed on a nice 4x4 when I could have shot him out the truck window. Does that make me better than the guy who didn't pass on the doe? Perhaps not. It's all the personal choices we make that give hunters bad names or good names. I just ask that you please please please don't put me out in the field with gun crowd. And in all my rambling this may be a moot point. The "state" returned my crossbow permit application saying the Doctor's statement that, post surgery, I am and will always be physically unable to safely draw or hold a bow was insufficient to warrant a permit. I will continue to be part of archery elk camp. Even if it means being the camp Bee Otch. Ya'll come in and sit a spell, hear? Tell me your lies and I'll tell you mine. :)
Post by: Gringo31 on May 06, 2014, 08:55:04 AM
I hear what you are saying....I think if I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for a ground blind on private property with a crossbow. I know some folks who would allow hunting on a limited basis with your background and story. :tup:
Post by: lokidog on May 06, 2014, 08:57:51 AM
Post by: RadSav on May 06, 2014, 09:01:42 AM
I think guys like you are exactly why we have the crossbow exception we do. I see absolutely no problem sharing an elk camp with you during archery season. Just please, let me do the wood splitting :chuckle:
I actually believe crossbows should be legal for all Washington state hunters. Though I do believe healthy, capable, non-disabled hunters should use them in a season other than archery season. Would make sense to combine them in a primitive weapon season like muzzy season.
Post by: rover758 on May 06, 2014, 12:51:40 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 06, 2014, 01:00:50 PM
Post by: SquirrelHunter on May 06, 2014, 01:23:52 PM
I dont know if you have already paid to have your crossbow retrofitted with a pin set-up, if not I can show you how I did mine for $60 bucks ($50 for the sight, $10 for the mount) and no warranties voided. The best part is I can upgrade my sights as new ones come out if deemed necessary Works great to
If your interested send me a PM
Post by: rover758 on May 06, 2014, 09:27:21 PM
h20hunter wants to share a pint and hear my lies? LOL ... let me tell you about the Red Deer in northern Spain .... no, a better one is the black bear in Brooks Range in Alaska when I was going to draw and heard a low growl behind me and I turned to see a big she-wolf glaring at me .... no ... that won't do ... it has to be that time down in Honduras.........
Post by: Mxracer532 on July 01, 2014, 10:23:11 AM
Post by: brianb231 on July 01, 2014, 08:46:09 PM
NOW... His partner, who is my best friends Uncle is in his 70's and he finally after 16 years of applying gets drawn for a peaches ridge archery tag!!! So he is excited, but he is also a disabled hunter now as well. He cannot travel far or down in any steep and deep either or even really draw the bow, but his passion to be out there with the group he and my Dad raised in the woods is still there. We are going to do everything in our power to make this happen for him and the use of a crossbow gives him a chance to do just that.
I get it... there are a lot of people that abuse the disabled rules but there are also a group that are still alive with that hunting drive because of it.
So lets not be quick to throw stones at the crossbow and disabled rules because there are those that abuse it. That is all I ask.
Good luck to everyone this season.
Brianb231
Post by: lokidog on July 01, 2014, 10:51:00 PM
Normally I wouldn't comment but with my dad no longer able to draw a bow after multiple surgeries and him being an avid bow hunter since the early 70's and it being his true passion and hearing all you guys saying sure he can use his xbow in modern season is a F'n joke! Why do most guys quit modern? Probably cause there is a million people and have *censored*s looking at them through their scopes, bullets wizzing over their heads ect. If anyone catagorises a freakin crossbow even close to the same category as modern your just being selfish and arrogant. Xbow so (maybe shoot 100yrds) modern fire arm (now days 1000yrds with todays equipment isnt out of the ? )besides that 98% o the guys who get a xbow were avid archery guys like my old man. Put yourself in those guys shoes and really think about it. For any of you to say my old man can no longer hunt with his kids/grand kids because he cant draw a compound anymore is *censored*! By the way he once shot right handed, had shoulder surgery and couldnt continue right handed so switched to left handed now a few surgeries later cant left left handed either so its not from the lack of effort.
MX, I think you need to step back a minute and maybe reread the posts here. I don't think a single person that has posted (Oops, guess I'll say most don't) feels that a truly disabled archer should not be able to use a crossbow during archery season. :dunno: Many, including myself, believe they should be allowed during modern season for anyone, disabled or not as well.
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on July 01, 2014, 11:02:53 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on July 01, 2014, 11:04:40 PM
What about old and cant draw/hold back and see very well ???? I think xbows are fine during modern season, same as modern muzzle loaders.....either can have a scope during modern.
We cant do everything for everyone........I have a neighbor who hunts elk with an xbow, and deer with a 300win mag.........sound right to you ?????
There comes a time when the body wont function as we like, and it should be accepted........not compensated for with rules and regulations. WHen I can no longer draw and hold, I am done.....if I cant see my pins, I am done.....if I can no longer see through a rifle scope and rest that rifle on something to shoot, I am done.............unless ofcourse you guys want to accomodate me with rules and regulations that address old and tired and cant see..............
I think you bring up good points no matter what the weapon of choice is.
If you see hunter recruitment as a important part of hunting. Some allowances must be made for the old and failing vision. There are many old hunters who do not go simply because they cannot see the pins well enough or open sites on a muzzel loader.
I think a red dot should be allowed on muzzys if the eye doctor indicartes poor vision. I see no problem with a red dot on a bow of any kind for the older folks. :twocents:
Post by: Todd_ID on July 01, 2014, 11:42:28 PM
I have received several calls about the utilization of
crossbows during archery season by hunters with
disabilities issued a Crossbow Special Use Permit.
Questions stem from the omission of language in the
regulations regarding crossbows, and others from
reports allowing sighting devices back on the crossbow.
To make certain I was answering these questions
correctly, I contacted the WDFW ADA Program
Manager for a run-down on current regulation status.
The short version is YES, crossbows are still permitted
to those hunters with upper extremity impairments
issued a Special Use Permit, and factory installed
sighting devices are now being allowed to remain on
the crossbow. Language requiring hunters to modify
their newly purchased crossbows by removing factory
installed scopes or red dot sights were eliminated.
The ADA Program is currently updating the Special Use
Permit (SUP) application process to reflect these new
regulations. Abbreviated information about obtaining
WDFW Disability Status can be found on page 92 of the Big
Game Hunting Season and Regulations booklet or online at:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/) The new ADA Program
RCW and WAC regulations can be found online at: http://
wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/rcw_wacs.html
Hunters having a permanent non-operable physical
impairment rendering them unable to safely draw, hold,
or operate a traditional archery device may be granted
a Special Use Permit (SUP) to use a crossbow. Each SUP
is customized to that individual’s needs. I was given
an example to show how they are attempting to apply
common sense to the permits: for instance, a hunter
with a physical muscular impairment who is incapable
of making a 40 pound draw on a traditional recurve
bow might be accommodated with a crossbow having a
cocking-assist device or C02 assist.
Each SUP issued to a hunter with a disability will state
these restrictions or limitations out clearly to assist
enforcement officers in making sure that the person
they just made contact with in the field who has a
crossbow is definitely allowed to hunt with one and
is following the restrictions of their SUP permit. The
goal of the program is to make certain those hunters
who need the permits are able to get what they require
to be able to continue hunting as well as to make sure
that the applicant for the permit actually needs the
accommodation.
My hope is that these changes to the ADA Program will
help weed out those with permits who probably should
not have been given them in the past; this would go a
long way toward bettering the image of bow hunting
in the public’s eye. Nobody should be denied the right
to bow hunt because of a disability, and, conversely, I
don’t want to see people in the field who have taken
advantage of the system through misrepresentation of
a permanent non-operative disability. That is a crime
punishable under RCW 77.15.650(1)(a) and WDFW
now has the tools in place to prosecute. I think WDFW
is taking steps in the right direction by designing a
program which looks at all ADA accommodations on
a case-by-case basis instead of trying to use a cookie
cutter approach.
If you need assistance with your hunting activity, give
Dolores Noyés, ADA Program Manager a call at 360-
902-2349. She is a wealth of information. You can also
go online and read about the Program by logging onto:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/)
Post by: RadSav on July 02, 2014, 12:55:04 AM
I still do not understand why crossbows can not be used during modern firearm season unless they are in a firearm restriction area. And that within those restricted areas you can use a shotgun with a scope, a front loader with a scope, but not a crossbow with a scope! My personal belief is that anyone carrying a modern firearm license/tag should be able to use a scoped crossbow if they so choose anywhere hunting in that season is legal.
Similarly, I believe anyone with a muzzleloader license/tag should be allowed to use a crossbow in any area where muzzleloader is allowed as long as the same sight limitations are observed. And of course that hunter does not ignite it with a 209 primer! ;)
I do not and probably will not support crossbows during archery season for each and every Joe Blow who wants to. However, as stated earlier, if a person is legitimately handicapped I see no problem with allowing it. The gesture far outweighs any animal impact concerns - if any actually existed. The number of truly disabled hunters that wish to compete in archery seasons is just not significant enough to firmly stand against it. WDFW has enough image problems without being viewed as lacking empathy towards a very small minority who legitimately struggle with a physical disability.
Post by: rover758 on July 11, 2014, 07:28:22 AM
Post by: birddogdad on July 11, 2014, 08:19:30 AM
*sight restrictions have already been addressed in the rulebook, although (IMO) i feel that the rule lends itself for hunters who cant see that well with pins/open sights to be forced into taking unethical chances (the rule is very specifically restrictive with vision specifications) but that is another leg of this topic with scopes.
Post by: huntnphool on July 14, 2014, 04:22:57 PM
This topic has come up lately. Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows. WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".
I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?
To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
Post by: Todd_ID on July 14, 2014, 05:04:14 PM
The point of the scope is this: try to buy a fixed pin crossbow; there is no market for them, so they aren't available, even here where they were the only legal option. Yes, there are retrofit kits one can buy for certain models of crossbows, but they were in the $250 range, and you had to have a certain brand of crossbow to use one. Almost every crossbow sold comes with a red dot style sight, so we agreed to the change to allow the non-magnifying versions to be legal.This topic has come up lately. Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows. WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".
I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?
To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
Post by: emac on July 14, 2014, 05:19:50 PM
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: huntnphool on July 14, 2014, 05:25:09 PM
The point of the scope is this: try to buy a fixed pin crossbow; there is no market for them, so they aren't available, even here where they were the only legal option. Yes, there are retrofit kits one can buy for certain models of crossbows, but they were in the $250 range, and you had to have a certain brand of crossbow to use one. Almost every crossbow sold comes with a red dot style sight, so we agreed to the change to allow the non-magnifying versions to be legal.This topic has come up lately. Recently, we dealt with the issue of scopes being used on crossbows. WSB felt that if the scope was not magnified, we saw no reason to stand in the way of a rule change allowing a "scope".
I guess my question would be, what is the point of a scope if not to magnify the view? Simply a set of crosshairs?
To those that qualify under the specific adjectives, I have no issue with them using scopes on their crossbows. :twocents:
Thanks Todd, I figured it had to be some form of "sight" without magnification but was not aware crossbows did not come with some sort of fixed open sight.
Post by: stuckalot on July 20, 2014, 10:21:50 PM
Getting old is not a qualifier, we all slow at some point.
Why the hell not? Why shouldn't accommodations be made that allow a few more years in the field sharing our heritage with our parents, kids and grand kids? Are we so self-centered in our pursuit of game, special draw permits and an extra day in our season that we forsake the bonds among family and friends at the core of our hunting experiences?
Maybe I'm just wierd but watching my 23 year old son plan his daily hunt around making sure his grandpa is situated in his blind every morning and that he can meet up with him on his way out of the woods at night, means more to me than any set of horns on the wall ever will. And that's made possible because of a crossbow permit.
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on July 20, 2014, 10:53:34 PM
Good for you stuckalot get out there and enjoy hunting and let all these other cry babies do all there whining and sniffling because i'm a bowhunter with my rangefinder ,mechancial release,carbon arrows ,a bow that shoots 325 ft. per second,and the best bino's money can buy, but don't forget you should hunt during rifle season cause you might infringe on their season. Good luck hunting and have fun !!!!!!Getting old is not a qualifier, we all slow at some point.
Why the hell not? Why shouldn't accommodations be made that allow a few more years in the field sharing our heritage with our parents, kids and grand kids? Are we so self-centered in our pursuit of game, special draw permits and an extra day in our season that we forsake the bonds among family and friends at the core of our hunting experiences?
Maybe I'm just wierd but watching my 23 year old son plan his daily hunt around making sure his grandpa is situated in his blind every morning and that he can meet up with him on his way out of the woods at night, means more to me than any set of horns on the wall ever will. And that's made possible because of a crossbow permit.
Post by: b0w_bender on November 17, 2014, 09:54:58 AM
Post by: Special T on November 17, 2014, 03:40:02 PM
Crossbows should be legal in any open area for Muzzy or Rifle, but not archery. The disabled permitt needs better definitions and guidelines.
I archery hunt because i have acces to places that are concerned that they will have to deal with neighbors over the sound of a muzzy or rifle. There are LOTS of deer around homes and making crossbows legal during muzzy and modern fine with me.
Post by: csaaphill on November 17, 2014, 04:05:58 PM
Before some jump me I see this as what will most certainly become the only way to hunt so ya let em hunt.
You still have to be within 100yds or so so ya.
before you say tinfoil hat all one has to do is look at all the lead bans trying to be implamented and animal rights bringing in wolves and not letting us hunt then coyotes on other states overpopulating their carrying capacity and not allowed to hunt or not allowed to depredidate as they should ya I see this comeing sooner rather than later.
And what with us being our own worst enemy ya!
Post by: BABackcountryBwhntr on November 20, 2014, 04:42:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 20, 2014, 04:55:18 PM
See pages 78, 79, and 83.
Post by: Bob33 on November 20, 2014, 05:46:47 PM
I have read the regs numerous times.. during modern you absolutely can use a xbow. In any unit. As far as xbows during archery, I'm good with it for disabled people who really are disabled. The toughest part of bow hunting to me is learning when and how to draw. . Then holding for minutes at a time waiting on the shot. The x bow takes that out of the picture.Only in firearm restricted areas during a modern season, or by hunters with specific disabilities.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/101/What+are+the+rules+for+firearm+restriction+areas%2C+and+can+crossbows+now+be+used%3F (http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/101/What+are+the+rules+for+firearm+restriction+areas%2C+and+can+crossbows+now+be+used%3F)
"It is unlawful to hunt wildlife with a crossbow except by modern firearm tag holders in firearm restriction areas. However, disabled hunter permittees in possession of a crossbow special-use permit may hunt with a crossbow in any season that allows archery equipment."
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 20, 2014, 05:47:09 PM
I have read the regs numerous times.. during modern you absolutely can use a xbow. In any unit. As far as xbows during archery, I'm good with it for disabled people who really are disabled. The toughest part of bow hunting to me is learning when and how to draw. . Then holding for minutes at a time waiting on the shot. The x bow takes that out of the picture.
:dunno: read again I guess
Post by: bowhunterwa87 on November 20, 2014, 05:58:00 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 20, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
Stupid law anyways. All disabled hunters should be allowed to use one.
TO BOWHUNTER87: Yeah but look at the way disability programs are abused :dunno: there would be thousands more who would be fraudulently taking advantage of the program.
TO EVERYONE: I get a lot of flak for saying this but we can't always make the playing field level. Hunting is a rigorous outdoor activity that requires a certain level of physical fitness/capability and if you don't have those capabilities I don't think the state owes you anything beyond what it currently offers.
I'm about to get called somebody who hates disabled people...3...2...1
Post by: Hornet742 on January 07, 2015, 08:41:49 AM
The "state" returned my crossbow permit application saying the Doctor's statement that, post surgery, I am and will always be physically unable to safely draw or hold a bow was insufficient to warrant a permit. I will continue to be part of archery elk camp. Even if it means being the camp Bee Otch. Ya'll come in and sit a spell, hear? Tell me your lies and I'll tell you mine. :)
I also am a disabled Vet. In my case Agent Orange has taken all but 10% of my sight in my left eye (right eye is blind), and other service related problems have given me Congestive Heart Failure, COPD, and Severe Knee problems.
I hunt. Since I can't drive any more I wanted to hunt with my middle son during archery season. So I wanted to use a bow. Instability and vision problems and other issues make it so I can pull a bow at 40# for a few seconds. Using the sights was another issue. Applied for the crossbow permit.
Doc answered in about 5 lines, and the state refused the permit because he didn't list any specific tests that proved I couldn't use a vertical bow.
In talking to the Disability Coordinator it was stated that the reason they needed specific strength/Coordination tests was because they get audited. I suspect after reading this thread that I now know who does the auditing.
I find myself wondering how using a crossbow changes the physics of arrow flight? Is there some magic switch that makes it do more than a vertical bow?
When we, as hunters spend our time fighting among ourselves for imagined slights and the changing of "traditional" hunting systems it seems to me as if we might as well just let the anti-hunters have their way. We sure aren't going to be able to come together when we need to.
Post by: 4fletch on January 07, 2015, 10:51:58 AM
sorry to hear about your problems. I would try to have a one on one talk with the person approving the permit. Thank you for your service
The "state" returned my crossbow permit application saying the Doctor's statement that, post surgery, I am and will always be physically unable to safely draw or hold a bow was insufficient to warrant a permit. I will continue to be part of archery elk camp. Even if it means being the camp Bee Otch. Ya'll come in and sit a spell, hear? Tell me your lies and I'll tell you mine. :)
I also am a disabled Vet. In my case Agent Orange has taken all but 10% of my sight in my left eye (right eye is blind), and other service related problems have given me Congestive Heart Failure, COPD, and Severe Knee problems.
I hunt. Since I can't drive any more I wanted to hunt with my middle son during archery season. So I wanted to use a bow. Instability and vision problems and other issues make it so I can pull a bow at 40# for a few seconds. Using the sights was another issue. Applied for the crossbow permit.
Doc answered in about 5 lines, and the state refused the permit because he didn't list any specific tests that proved I couldn't use a vertical bow.
In talking to the Disability Coordinator it was stated that the reason they needed specific strength/Coordination tests was because they get audited. I suspect after reading this thread that I now know who does the auditing.
I find myself wondering how using a crossbow changes the physics of arrow flight? Is there some magic switch that makes it do more than a vertical bow?
When we, as hunters spend our time fighting among ourselves for imagined slights and the changing of "traditional" hunting systems it seems to me as if we might as well just let the anti-hunters have their way. We sure aren't going to be able to come together when we need to.
Post by: lokidog on January 07, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
The "state" returned my crossbow permit application saying the Doctor's statement that, post surgery, I am and will always be physically unable to safely draw or hold a bow was insufficient to warrant a permit. I will continue to be part of archery elk camp. Even if it means being the camp Bee Otch. Ya'll come in and sit a spell, hear? Tell me your lies and I'll tell you mine. :)
I also am a disabled Vet. In my case Agent Orange has taken all but 10% of my sight in my left eye (right eye is blind), and other service related problems have given me Congestive Heart Failure, COPD, and Severe Knee problems.
I hunt. Since I can't drive any more I wanted to hunt with my middle son during archery season. So I wanted to use a bow. Instability and vision problems and other issues make it so I can pull a bow at 40# for a few seconds. Using the sights was another issue. Applied for the crossbow permit.
Doc answered in about 5 lines, and the state refused the permit because he didn't list any specific tests that proved I couldn't use a vertical bow.
In talking to the Disability Coordinator it was stated that the reason they needed specific strength/Coordination tests was because they get audited. I suspect after reading this thread that I now know who does the auditing.
I find myself wondering how using a crossbow changes the physics of arrow flight? Is there some magic switch that makes it do more than a vertical bow?
When we, as hunters spend our time fighting among ourselves for imagined slights and the changing of "traditional" hunting systems it seems to me as if we might as well just let the anti-hunters have their way. We sure aren't going to be able to come together when we need to.
It sounds like you are definitely a candidate for the use of a crossbow during archery season. It also sounds like all you need to do is have your doctor perform some specidfic strength and/or vision tests?
"I find myself wondering how using a crossbow changes the physics of arrow flight? Is there some magic switch that makes it do more than a vertical bow?"
No, it does not change the physics of arrow flight, however, there is indeed a "maqic switch" that makes it do more than a vertical bow, it is called a locking trigger holding the "bow" at full draw. This is a distinct advantage over having to draw (lots of movement) and hold a bow back until ready to take the shot.
I just got a crossbow for a Christmas present from my parents, the third shot I took I robinhooded a bolt at 15 yards from a kneeling position, in less than ten shots, I had the bow sighted in to thirty yards putting two (all I have left) bolts side by side in a two inch bullseye, also from a kneeling position. There is not a single person that can honestly say a crossbow is the same as a longbow or even compound bow, IMO.
I will also repeat from an earlier post, I have no problems with someone with a disability being given a permit to use a crossbow during archery season.
Post by: Hornet742 on January 07, 2015, 05:49:12 PM
In looking at the use of a crossbow during said season the only place that can be hunted with one is the Snoqualmie Golf Course which has an elk herd amongst the middle of six figure homes. Only place that I can find that is.
I will be purchasing a Bowflex machine to work on upper body strength in an attempt to be able to pull and hold in tension a vertical bow for more than a few seconds. I just might be able to use one after 6 months or so. Gonna try anyway.
Biggest thing for me is I want to do it myself. I can give my son my harvest tag, but I figure that if I have someone else do it for me that soon I won't be able to do anything for myself. So what do I do then, unable to walk at all and probably unable to feed myself. At what point does my life become a burden on my family and friends? If I have someone else hunt for me I might as well go buy my meat in the grocery store, and there are not many things left for me to enjoy as it is. I want this one as long as I can move.
Post by: lokidog on January 07, 2015, 06:48:53 PM
Good luck with getting yourself in shape.
Post by: csaaphill on January 07, 2015, 07:05:34 PM
Post by: BABackcountryBwhntr on January 08, 2015, 11:27:56 PM
I have to chime in on this as I hunt with a crossbow. Giving our wounded warriors access to use a crossbow is a great idea, but where do you draw the line on what wounded is, is it missing an arm/hand? If it isn't taken to the extreme of missing an extremity how do you prove the "wounded"? I know many of service members that play the disability system in both the Army side and the VA side. Now as far as your everyday person using a crossbow, why not? I had a C-spine surgery and fusion that didn't work out, that along with a shoulder injury allows me to pull a 40lb draw bow back but not hold it for more than 3-5 seconds before my shoulder gives out sending the arrow who knows where, and sending the bow back towards my face (yes it happened during a hunt). So why shouldn't I be allowed to use a crossbow to continue my hunting experience?
I feel like people see the "disabled hunter" using the crossbow and are upset because they feel we have a "greater advantage" over the traditional archery user by adding distance or accuracy. Hunt the method you enjoy, or the method that you can physically handle, enjoy your hunt and let others enjoy theirs whether you agree with the method or not.
the advantage is not having to worry about when to draw or holding at full draw for minutes waiting on your shot. I am fine with it during any season aside from archery season. It gives people a distinct advantage.
Post by: Hornet742 on January 11, 2015, 06:18:14 PM
I know! I'll just take sound shots! (joking). I will figure it out, not going to give up with just a few bumps in the road.
Gonna have to wrap the limbs in rubber so when I accidentally bang them into something that I can't see it won't make a loud Clang. Figured the short ATA length would help with the sight problems below my mid chest but man, these little things really suck trying to shoot well with.
This is a joke post, well kind of anyway. I am beginning to think I would do better just lobbing the arrows at them with my fist :)
Post by: lokidog on January 11, 2015, 09:37:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 12, 2015, 09:56:59 AM
If you are a real hunter, you don't even need the bow, just shove the arrow in with your fist. 8) :chuckle:
That's how Chuck Norris hunts isn't it?
Post by: huntnnw on January 12, 2015, 10:31:49 PM
Post by: BoArcher on May 20, 2015, 11:32:11 PM
I've been hunting with bows since I was 12. I'm 47 now. Started with a recurve with no sights. Bought my first compound in 1986 and still didn't use sights. Finally started using sights around 1998. My point is that the sport keeps evolving and new advances in technology makes it easier to kill animals using archery equipment. So if it shoots an arrow what difference does it make wether its a shoulder fired or not? Why should anyone shooting an arrow slight anyone else who chooses to shoot an arrow a different way?
I am disabled due to Lou Gehrig's disease. Fortunately the progression has been slow. I am unable to pull a bow back anymore and have some difficulty walking very far. I started using a crossbow two years ago. Carrying a crossbow SUCKS! They are heavy and cumbersome. I'd much rather carry a bow. I carry the crossbow because I still feel like an archery hunter and want to remain an archery hunter. It's in my blood. I like the challenge of having to get close. I enjoy the solitude of the archery season. No guns going off all the time.
So please consider everything before making statements that could eventually hurt all archery hunters. Remember it wasn't all that long ago when archery was considered evil by the mainstream due to arrows left in the woods and injured animals. We all need to stick together. Please don't let your own biases and jealousies ruin someone else's hunting opportunities or experience.
Post by: SquirrelHunter on November 25, 2015, 09:03:02 PM