Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Archery Gear => Topic started by: davk on May 06, 2016, 09:06:09 PM


Advertise Here
Title: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 06, 2016, 09:06:09 PM
Just wondering what everyone prefers to carry(and a reason why) when bow hunting.  I currently have both, and often bring neither  :o.  I have a stainless steal .375 that often gets left because of weight.  Bear spray started getting left behind after spending 3 months in the wilderness all around the country, and more weekends over the last 3 years than most and never having any bear encounters.  I don't know if its more common than I think but for now I have shed the weight.  Let me hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: 257wbymagkiller on May 06, 2016, 09:13:15 PM
I carry .357 mag, dont trust some pepper spray on a pissed off big ol boar  :tup:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on May 06, 2016, 09:13:57 PM
Spray. Its way more effective to get rid of unwanted hunters in your area. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: jeffro on May 06, 2016, 09:30:00 PM
D: all of the above
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 06, 2016, 09:38:35 PM
 Use "Hard cast" 180-200 grain bullets only in the 357mag if used for bear defense.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 06, 2016, 09:56:04 PM
Use "Hard cast" 180-200 grain bullets only in the 357mag if used for bear defense.

Yeah I use 180gr hard cast bullets.  I brought them out once to shoot with a friend and joked about it being about to shoot down trees.  First round went through the paper and a 3inch wide 20ft tall tree fell over.  Had a good laugh ...
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: pd on May 06, 2016, 10:08:02 PM
Boy, this is one of those topics that never reaches a conclusion.

My take on the subject: Unless you are in grizzly country, don't be too concerned.  I carry what I have in western Washington (.40S&W or .357mag).  For northern Idaho, .44mag but looking for a .45LC.

No spray for me.  Others will disagree.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 06, 2016, 10:17:29 PM
Boy, this is one of those topics that never reaches a conclusion.

That's why I figured Id ask for a why and not just a what.  At least get a few different points out so I, and others, can decide for themselves(as its more personal preference than anything).
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JoeE on May 06, 2016, 10:28:28 PM
A Glock 20 10mm is what I use.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 06, 2016, 11:14:42 PM
I don't worry much about black bears. For grizzlies I much prefer spray over a handgun.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: NW-GSP on May 07, 2016, 05:54:40 AM
You are 99.9% more likely to need either of your two options for two legged creatures then the four legged ones. I carry a glock 20 10mm but its really not the bears I am worried about. First would be people and second would be cougars.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: fisheral87 on May 07, 2016, 02:35:34 PM
Both

Al
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 07, 2016, 03:00:15 PM
You are 99.9% more likely to need either of your two options for two legged creatures then the four legged ones. I carry a glock 20 10mm but its really not the bears I am worried about. First would be people and second would be cougars.
In Washington that is true but not so much in other parts of the country and world. There have been numerous attacks of hunters (mostly bowhunters) in Montana and Idaho in recent years by grizzlies.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 07, 2016, 03:04:59 PM
some places, the grizzlies are attracted to gunshots. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Johnb317 on May 07, 2016, 03:09:01 PM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 07, 2016, 03:23:13 PM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Dan-o on May 07, 2016, 03:29:10 PM
Bear spray is full auto....
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Special T on May 07, 2016, 03:35:52 PM
I vote gun because of 2 leggers. I have met the first usfs ranger to use bear spray and she said you had to be danger close for it to work. 20 ft. She said you could smell what it had for breakfast when it growled and it didnt smell good!
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Dan-o on May 07, 2016, 08:17:32 PM
True, but you also have to be danger close to shoot a charging bear with a pistol......
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JoeE on May 07, 2016, 09:36:43 PM
I'm more worried about a bear encounter while I'm sleeping. When I'm up during the day I probably have a rifle in my hand and if I need to suppress a bear it's going to be with that. If a bear encounter happens at night while I'm in my tent I absolutely do not want to be deploying bear spray in a tent and would opt for the pistol every time.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 07, 2016, 09:47:15 PM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
All those articles claiming spray is better don't want to talk about the 2000 plus "Defense of Life & Property" cases that have been reported to Alaska State Troopers or the even greater number of encounters that are not reported but a hunting  tag was slapped on. The problem is a firearm is used and the bear is dead. It throws their percentages right out the window.
As for wounded bears.. this is when you could  actually be attacked. (Not just an "encounter".) Show me one Alaskan guide that carries only bear spray to protect their client when pursuing bears in these dangerous situations. Doesn't happen for a reason..

 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 07, 2016, 10:17:10 PM
It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.

I think that bow hunting bear and hunting for deer/elk/etc are basically 2 different situations.  If I was bear hunting I think I would want a gun over spray 100%.  Last year I shot a bear and it immediately went into some of the thickest crap.  That was with a rifle so I didnt have a handgun with.  I would have been much more hesitant to enter the brush with just a bow in hand.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 07, 2016, 10:23:44 PM
In Washington that is true but not so much in other parts of the country and world. There have been numerous attacks of hunters (mostly bowhunters) in Montana and Idaho in recent years by grizzlies.

Id prefer to keep this related to Washington/black bears. If I was heading into grizzly country I wouldnt be taking a 9oz can of bear spray that shoots 20ft and last 2 seconds.  If I did I think I would be walking funny due to my huge balls.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: NW-GSP on May 07, 2016, 10:44:30 PM
In Washington that is true but not so much in other parts of the country and world. There have been numerous attacks of hunters (mostly bowhunters) in Montana and Idaho in recent years by grizzlies.

Id prefer to keep this related to Washington/black bears. If I was heading into grizzly country I wouldnt be taking a 9oz can of bear spray that shoots 20ft and last 2 seconds.  If I did I think I would be walking funny due to my huge balls.

I 100% agree. In grizz country I would want a short barrel 3 1/2 in mag shotgun.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bango skank on May 08, 2016, 12:33:42 AM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
or the even greater number of encounters that are not reported but a hunting  tag was slapped on.

Happened to me.  Was out hiking around checking trail cams and a young boar came at me, nailed him with my sidearm inside 3 yards.  It happened to be bear season and i had a tag in my pocket, so worked out pretty good.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Dan-o on May 08, 2016, 06:53:14 AM
 :yike:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: buglebrush on May 08, 2016, 07:59:42 AM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
or the even greater number of encounters that are not reported but a hunting  tag was slapped on.

Happened to me.  Was out hiking around checking trail cams and a young boar came at me, nailed him with my sidearm inside 3 yards.  It happened to be bear season and i had a tag in my pocket, so worked out pretty good.

Had the same deal.  Mine was shot at about 10 yards.  I seen him coming, and had my .44 mag on him before he saw me.  He stared at me for a moment and then headed straight for me.  Hard cast buffalo bore from a Ruger Redhawk does wonders!  Shot him in the chest and blew an enormous hole out his rear hip.  Pretty impressive really!
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: brush hunter on May 08, 2016, 08:36:34 AM
In Washington that is true but not so much in other parts of the country and world. There have been numerous attacks of hunters (mostly bowhunters) in Montana and Idaho in recent years by grizzlies.

Id prefer to keep this related to Washington/black bears. If I was heading into grizzly country I wouldnt be taking a 9oz can of bear spray that shoots 20ft and last 2 seconds.  If I did I think I would be walking funny due to my huge balls.
   Bear spray is great in theory, fact is that 80% of the time your going to get the spray in your eyes. I always carry a hand gun when hunting and hiking. I carry a .50AE Desert Eagle, or my .500 or .44 If I might ask where would you be hunting. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 08, 2016, 09:11:30 AM
In Washington that is true but not so much in other parts of the country and world. There have been numerous attacks of hunters (mostly bowhunters) in Montana and Idaho in recent years by grizzlies.

Id prefer to keep this related to Washington/black bears. If I was heading into grizzly country I wouldnt be taking a 9oz can of bear spray that shoots 20ft and last 2 seconds.  If I did I think I would be walking funny due to my huge balls.
   Bear spray is great in theory, fact is that 80% of the time your going to get the spray in your eyes. I always carry a hand gun when hunting and hiking. I carry a .50AE Desert Eagle, or my .500 or .44 If I might ask where would you be hunting.
The size/type of firearm is another one of those things that messes with the bear spray vs gun statistic argument.  Bear spray is pretty much all the same--big can of compressed capsaicin.  Guns included in stats include everything from .22 pistol to elephant guns.  Probably not a stretch to say that a guy using a .380 with hollow points might have different odds than the guy with a .44 mag with fmj.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: dscubame on May 08, 2016, 09:33:20 AM
Bear Spray all the way.  Handguns for bears is for television.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 09:39:34 AM
Spray is under used.  Nearly 100% effective.  Yellowstone Rangers who are charged often use it with near perfect results.  That said a 357 or larger is also very wise.  If bear was on you it can be hard to use spray.  Also cans can get old and not work well.  Both is the best answer but spray is better often.  It doesn't miss, or wound animal like guns can.  A wounded bear will attack instead of just a false charge warning.  Often I read Grizz will charge as a warning but not attack but if you shoot it its a guaranteed attack.  As for 2 legged critters spray will work very good.  Can cause blindness.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: brush hunter on May 08, 2016, 09:44:26 AM
Bear Spray all the way.  Handguns for bears is for television.
Why would that be?
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 08, 2016, 09:58:58 AM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 10:06:28 AM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)
Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bean Counter on May 08, 2016, 10:12:54 AM
He closed his eyes and slammed the trigger!  :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 08, 2016, 10:16:23 AM
He closed his eyes and slammed the trigger!  :IBCOOL:

No doubt.  I think it was the guide, and, he was slapping leather as soon as he saw the triplets on the bank.  Good man.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 11:01:20 AM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)
Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 11:38:00 AM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)
Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".
Yes, and I've killed enough big game animals (most far smaller than a grizzly, and nearly all shot with firearms more powerful than common handgun calibers) to understand that very few die within 1/2 second.
I'll take my chances with spray over a handgun.

To each his own. If you feel comfortable with a handgun, go for it.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: bradslam on May 08, 2016, 12:37:51 PM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 01:07:13 PM
Keep in mind good bear spray is like 100xs stronger than people pepper spray.  It is downright dangerous stuff.  Plus its hard to miss just remember to spray at ground in front of animal charge.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 08, 2016, 03:31:33 PM
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 03:57:44 PM
Keep in mind good bear spray is like 100xs stronger than people pepper spray.  It is downright dangerous stuff.  Plus its hard to miss just remember to spray at ground in front of animal charge.

Wrong! Bear spray is about 1 to 2 percent capsicum. Human spray is 10% plus capsicum.
 Nice try..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 08, 2016, 04:03:47 PM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)
Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.

Ha, my hand cannon is a bit more than a "pop".  Things pay attention when that thing goes off  :rolleyes:  I'm all about a solid chunk of lead blasted into an offending brown bear's body to disrupt it's nervous system (even if he's dragging me away by the leg)... I'll get the last laugh if it kills me   :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JoeE on May 08, 2016, 04:11:25 PM
The bear spray fans...what if you are in a tent, or it's windy? I've been pepper sprayed and I'm completely disabled. I'll take the gun every time. I know a lot of guys who spend a lot of time in the Alaskan backcountry and none of them choose spray over side arm.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 04:21:22 PM
Darwin will sort it out. ;)
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 04:26:29 PM
Keep in mind good bear spray is like 100xs stronger than people pepper spray.  It is downright dangerous stuff.  Plus its hard to miss just remember to spray at ground in front of animal charge.

Wrong! Bear spray is about 1 to 2 percent capsicum. Human spray is 10% plus capsicum.
 Nice try..
Sorry Bud but you aren't educated enough to "inform me". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray  Its also illegal to use on Humans as its so potent and can damage eyes easily.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 04:26:41 PM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.

I had a can of 10% capsicum burst on me that was sitting on the dash of my truck. I was able to drive back home and wash my eyes out. Skunk spray in the eyes was far worse.

I think I'd be ok with 1% or 2%. The fact that I wouldn't trust my life to spray isn't a "macho mentality" except maybe to "soft" males.

By the way I've sprayed plenty of dogs with 10%. Had a pair of Dobermans that weren't  impressed at all by spray. A bicycle pump over the head impressed them..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JoeE on May 08, 2016, 04:28:54 PM
Are there lots of stories of guys being mauled to death with guns in their hands vs pepper spray? I don't think there are. Both are effective but since I'm most worried about an encounter at night while I'm in the tent I'm going to bring the gun. Shoot pepper spray in a tent and let me know what it's like. I've shot pepper spray into the wind and had it come directly back in my face. I'm not willing to take that risk with a bear coming towards me.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 04:31:27 PM
Cougar I think you cant see the decimal in front of your quoted 10%.  Its .1%  My point is spray is great!  AND a gun is real good.  Kinda like an airbag and a seatbelt..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 04:40:30 PM
http://www.outsideonline.com/1899301/shoot-or-spray-best-way-stop-charging-bear (http://www.outsideonline.com/1899301/shoot-or-spray-best-way-stop-charging-bear)
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 04:45:07 PM
Keep in mind good bear spray is like 100xs stronger than people pepper spray.  It is downright dangerous stuff.  Plus its hard to miss just remember to spray at ground in front of animal charge.

Wrong! Bear spray is about 1 to 2 percent capsicum. Human spray is 10% plus capsicum.
 Nice try..
Sorry Bud but you aren't educated enough to "inform me". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray  Its also illegal to use on Humans as its so potent and can damage eyes easily.

Gee. My canister of defensive spray says 10%. I must be the only guy on the planet who owns the spray with 10% capsicum. lol
Here's a tip for you internet jockeys. Don't trust Wikipedia. It is written often times by other uniformed internet jockeys..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 04:52:19 PM
Cougar I think you cant see the decimal in front of your quoted 10%.  Its .1%  My point is spray is great!  AND a gun is real good.  Kinda like an airbag and a seatbelt..

Go to the Counter Assault website.. and get back to me. lol
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 04:57:47 PM
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 08, 2016, 05:02:08 PM
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 05:14:53 PM
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 05:29:46 PM
Cougar I think you cant see the decimal in front of your quoted 10%.  Its .1%  My point is spray is great!  AND a gun is real good.  Kinda like an airbag and a seatbelt..

Go to the Counter Assault website.. and get back to me. lol
I think you are the only one with 10%.  Counterassault is a BEAR SPRAY!  You sure it doesn't say 10oz.???
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 08, 2016, 05:35:05 PM
my bear spray is 1.1%
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 05:37:08 PM
You'all a victim of advertisement gimmicks.  Counterassault 10% is a play on words. Actually just over 1% capsaicum. http://www.amazon.com/Counter-Assault-Pepper-Spray/dp/B005JPTA48   If you doubt bear spray go spray yourself!  Promise its BAD!  I know what regular pepper spray is like and this is MUCH worse....
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: dscubame on May 08, 2016, 05:41:27 PM
The bear spray fans...what if you are in a tent, or it's windy? I've been pepper sprayed and I'm completely disabled. I'll take the gun every time. I know a lot of guys who spend a lot of time in the Alaskan backcountry and none of them choose spray over side arm.

Alaska backcountry I will have my handgun for a multipurpose tool.  For bear as this OP questioned, spray all the way.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: pashok23 on May 08, 2016, 05:43:31 PM
Both

Al
:yeah:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: pashok23 on May 08, 2016, 05:48:44 PM
Read an article awhile back that showed statistically you're better off with the spray.
But most have only a 30 foot range!!!! :yike:
I remember one of those kinds of articles, and someone had to break it down by cases.  Guess it had to be situational to actually determine if you were better off with spray.  Lots of the bear fatalities attributed to firearms were hunters/bear hunters.  It was stuff like guys wounding bears and then going into heavy brush to get it.  Or a guy getting shot by a hunting partner shooting at the attacking bear.  Finding a bear on your deer/elk.  The people with spray, generally weren't intentionally getting into close situations with bears in the first place.
or the even greater number of encounters that are not reported but a hunting  tag was slapped on.

Happened to me.  Was out hiking around checking trail cams and a young boar came at me, nailed him with my sidearm inside 3 yards.  It happened to be bear season and i had a tag in my pocket, so worked out pretty good.

Had the same deal.  Mine was shot at about 10 yards.  I seen him coming, and had my .44 mag on him before he saw me.  He stared at me for a moment and then headed straight for me.  Hard cast buffalo bore from a Ruger Redhawk does wonders!  Shot him in the chest and blew an enormous hole out his rear hip.  Pretty impressive really!
how big was the bear?
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Becky on May 08, 2016, 05:49:16 PM
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?

there's a spray...  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 05:53:26 PM
http://www.forgesurvivalsupply.com/store/p/112-UDAP-Bear-Spray-12.aspx       Here is a detailed explanation of the # used and how it can be used to fool customers.  Hope this helps clear up the misinformation regarding % strength vs concentration and scoville heat unit measurements...  I carry the UDAP 2% .
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: bradslam on May 08, 2016, 06:03:30 PM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.

I had a can of 10% capsicum burst on me that was sitting on the dash of my truck. I was able to drive back home and wash my eyes out. Skunk spray in the eyes was far worse.

I think I'd be ok with 1% or 2%. The fact that I wouldn't trust my life to spray isn't a "macho mentality" except maybe to "soft" males.

By the way I've sprayed plenty of dogs with 10%. Had a pair of Dobermans that weren't  impressed at all by spray. A bicycle pump over the head impressed them..

Thanks for reinforcing the macho mentality with your quote about "soft males", whatever that means.  BTW, I have been a firefighter for 15 years, and before that was a commercial fisherman in Alaska for 14 years.  Does that fit in with your definition?
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 06:16:59 PM
I often carry a pistol (self protection caliber) in WA in black bear country but it's not for bear protection, it's for the goofballs we have running around in this state.  In N ID or NW MT, I'll normally carry a Taurus 444 Ultralite .44 MAG with 305 GR HSM bear loads.  I opt for a big "bang" vs a psssst from a can of compressed pepper spray... just my personal choice.  I always like to share this VID when these threads pop up. Do you think the pssst from an aerosol can would have turned this momma bear?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYs8Dnef3s)

Yes. I believe the odds are far better than the "pop" from a handgun attempting to hit a mad mamma charging at 30 mph.
Just so you know, in the 1/2 a second it takes a bear to cover 20 yards (effective range of spray) a bear won't feel much effect from the spray. By the time it starts the "burn" (if it is an actual attack) it's to late.
The startle effect is all spray has to offer in reality. A firearm blast or horn blast is just as effective.

Go for a long solo hike along a Alaskan stream choked full of salmon sometime. I don't "believe" I want a firearm. I "know" I want one with me in bear country.

I have a friend who has lived at a remote Alaskan homestead for over 20 years. He has never owned bear spray and somehow managed to survive with just firearms. Mention bear spray and he'll reply, "City folks".

The "startle effect is all the spray has to offer"?  Obviously, you have no first hand experience with pepper spray.  How about you let someone video you being sprayed in the face with pepper spray and we'll post it on Hunting Washington so we can all witness you being "startled"?  :chuckle:

Every time this issue comes up, the macho mentality always comes from people who are going to gun down a charging grizzly with their handgun.  Forget the studies that show pepper spray is more effective; people instead go with the opinion of some friend who has SOMEHOW managed to survive in Alaska with just a firearm, as if it's a daily struggle for life between man and bear.  There are plenty of people who survive in Alaska and other bear country without a firearm, or bear spray for that matter.

I had a can of 10% capsicum burst on me that was sitting on the dash of my truck. I was able to drive back home and wash my eyes out. Skunk spray in the eyes was far worse.

I think I'd be ok with 1% or 2%. The fact that I wouldn't trust my life to spray isn't a "macho mentality" except maybe to "soft" males.

By the way I've sprayed plenty of dogs with 10%. Had a pair of Dobermans that weren't  impressed at all by spray. A bicycle pump over the head impressed them..

Thanks for reinforcing the macho mentality with your quote about "soft males", whatever that means.  BTW, I have been a firefighter for 15 years, and before that was a commercial fisherman in Alaska for 14 years.  Does that fit in with your definition?

Means nothing to me. The biggest bunch of whine tits I've ever met was working King Crab on the Bering Sea. As for firefighter.. even less and I know many of them.
Have you ever competed in an International Athletic event? Try even qualifying and get back to me.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 08, 2016, 06:27:25 PM
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
But when you start your spray out at 30 ft for bear vs say 3 ft for humans, seems like the volume doesn't quite make up for it.  You would need 1,000 times the volume to make up the distance.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 08, 2016, 06:42:27 PM
You'all a victim of advertisement gimmicks.  Counterassault 10% is a play on words. Actually just over 1% capsaicum. http://www.amazon.com/Counter-Assault-Pepper-Spray/dp/B005JPTA48   If you doubt bear spray go spray yourself!  Promise its BAD!  I know what regular pepper spray is like and this is MUCH worse....

Here is an experiment for you. Take 2% by volume H202 (hydrogen peroxide) and stick your finger in it. Now stick your finger in 28% by volume H2O2.
The H2O2 molecule is the same in both solutions but the 2% does little to your skin and the 28% burns your skin right off.

This is the difference between concentration and the difference between 2% by volume capsicum and 10% by volume capsicum.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Annette on May 08, 2016, 06:52:06 PM
I had a biologist tell me that bear spray doesn't work on cougars..... my beretta will work on both...

Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on May 08, 2016, 07:02:22 PM
Bear spray is 1% to 2% OC concentration. Human spray is typically 10% OC.
Years ago, when I first got bear spray I thought it was the reverse.  Thinking if it is more concentrated than that human stuff then it might be decent stuff.  Then I learned I had the numbers reversed and just ditched the spray and went to the pistol.
There is a much high volume per spray with bear vs human spray, but a lower concentration.
But when you start your spray out at 30 ft for bear vs say 3 ft for humans, seems like the volume doesn't quite make up for it.  You would need 1,000 times the volume to make up the distance.
I'm not a bear, but they have one of the best noses of all wild animals. How many particles of OC in their nose and eyes are necessary to deter one is the question.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 08, 2016, 07:12:38 PM

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC. UDAP’s Bear Deterrent is rated at the maximum the EPA recommends, on which is 2.0%. This produces about 3 million Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) of stopping power. Our Bear Deterrents contain about 10% OC. This 10% is a measurement of the OC in the can, not the hotness of the spray. The EPA does NOT recognize nor allow labeling the measurement of bear spray hotness by OC or SHU ratings. The latest most accurate means accepted for evaluating true hotness is by testing the amount of CRCs present in a spray. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC --20% are active ingredients


UDAP’s personal sprays are rated at 1.34% CRC, which is the same rating as our bear sprays were in the years preceding 1999. This produces about 2 million SHUs of stopping power. Our personal sprays contain about 10% OC, also again the primary deciding factor of hotness in a pepper spray is the CRC rating. The active chemicals in OC are Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids (CRC), making this the only true determining factor for active ingredients in pepper sprays. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC –13.4% are active ingredients 



Hope this helps you understand.  If its to complicated then I defer and you are correct..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Magnum_Willys on May 08, 2016, 07:20:57 PM

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC. UDAP’s Bear Deterrent is rated at the maximum the EPA recommends, on which is 2.0%. This produces about 3 million Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) of stopping power. Our Bear Deterrents contain about 10% OC. This 10% is a measurement of the OC in the can, not the hotness of the spray. The EPA does NOT recognize nor allow labeling the measurement of bear spray hotness by OC or SHU ratings. The latest most accurate means accepted for evaluating true hotness is by testing the amount of CRCs present in a spray. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC --20% are active ingredients


UDAP’s personal sprays are rated at 1.34% CRC, which is the same rating as our bear sprays were in the years preceding 1999. This produces about 2 million SHUs of stopping power. Our personal sprays contain about 10% OC, also again the primary deciding factor of hotness in a pepper spray is the CRC rating. The active chemicals in OC are Capsaicin and Related Capsaicinoids (CRC), making this the only true determining factor for active ingredients in pepper sprays. Another way to look at this is: Of the 10% OC –13.4% are active ingredients 



Hope this helps you understand.  If its to complicated then I defer and you are correct..

huh??? 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: buglebrush on May 09, 2016, 08:21:02 AM
I own both.  Both have their place. 

I am a little amused reading this thread though  :chuckle:
Question:  To everyone saying " have you ever been sprayed?  That stuff is powerful! ".  I would respond  " have you ever been shot in the chest with buffalo bore hard cast from a .44 mag?".   :hello:   :chuckle:

Just use the one makes you feel safer.  Really either one's primary purpose is a placebo effect.  I just enjoy the mountains more when I am packing.   :twocents:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Seahawk12 on May 09, 2016, 08:28:27 AM
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?

there's a spray...  :chuckle:

HAHAHA!!! That was funny. They keep saying that it was because he must have been allergic and that's why the neutralizer didn't work. I wonder if any of them volunteered to go next?
 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Cougartail on May 09, 2016, 08:48:01 AM

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC.


Cut and pasting of ignorant statements like this tells me you know nothing of chemistry, biochemistry or physiology.

Sorry, Capsaicin and  the other capsaicinoids have no "Chemical Heat".

Having studied human physiology for 20+ years, not to mention the 6 years in a biological lab, I stopped reading your cut & paste after the first sentence.

Please explain to me, if Capsaicin has "chemical heat" why birds aren't effected by Capsaicin and it causes no cellular damage due to burn.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 09, 2016, 08:53:53 AM
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray? 
there's a spray...  :chuckle:

Poor sucker.  I've had my share of Army CS Gas experiences and it's no fun. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: NW-GSP on May 09, 2016, 09:20:47 AM

Definitions Below

The active ingredients are measured by the actual chemical hotness of the pepper, which is the CRC.


Cut and pasting of ignorant statements like this tells me you know nothing of chemistry, biochemistry or physiology.

Sorry, Capsaicin and  the other capsaicinoids have no "Chemical Heat".

Having studied human physiology for 20+ years, not to mention the 6 years in a biological lab, I stopped reading your cut & paste after the first sentence.

Please explain to me, if Capsaicin has "chemical heat" why birds aren't effected by Capsaicin and it causes no cellular damage due to burn.

You are correct, it does not leave an actual burn, trust me I have used oc allot!
The issue with bear spray is not the % of oc the issue is the detergents they use to extract the oils from the peppers. That is the reason why bear spray could possibly leave you blind compared to the oc marketed for self defense is usually considered a food grade product as in it is proven to not cause any harm besides discomfort.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 09, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
I forget what they are called but there are wipes that help neutralize pepper spray.  Does anyone carry those along with their bear spray, or know if they are effective with bear spray?

there's a spray...  :chuckle:

Haha.  I had bought some a few years ago.  Ill have to dig around and try and find them.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: davk on May 09, 2016, 08:28:53 PM
Sudecon wipes.  Effectiveness is questionable ...
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: timberghost72 on May 15, 2016, 07:56:27 AM
Bear spray vs. cougar. I would bet not many could hit this guy using a sidearm.

Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on May 15, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
Cool video.  Good thing is cat is educated and should not mess with people rest of its life. Prolly young males..
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: T-Dozzer on July 19, 2016, 10:17:09 AM
I'm more worried about cats than bears so I usually pack a pistola.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 19, 2016, 10:51:07 AM
Whatever makes you feel more comfortable in the woods.  I own both.  Outside of grizzly country, the only place I'm worried about is the trailhead, and either will work great.  In grizzly country, I'm just fine with bear spray - don't want the extra weight of a handgun in addition to my hunting weapon.  As far as being "illegal" to use bear spray on a human, that is no different than it being illegal to use any other weapon - including mace or "human" oc - on another person; it is all illegal UNLESS you meet the exceptions carved out in statute.  You aren't going to get in any more trouble for using bear spray on a tweaker at a trailhead who attacks you and causes you to fear for your life, than you would shooting him in the face with a bullet.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JoeE on October 03, 2016, 08:45:22 AM
Anybody with Facebook should check out this video posted by Todd Orr of Montana. I don't know how to imbed a video but his profile is public. A failed bear spray deployment almost got him killed. Guy looks like he's tough as nails though.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on October 03, 2016, 09:03:09 AM
Wow.  Wonder if he had time to use spray effectively?  Guess no!  Tough dude for sure, and lucky.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Seahawk12 on October 03, 2016, 09:28:50 AM
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on October 03, 2016, 09:39:48 AM
After watching n reading it appears he sprayed too late and bears speed carried her through with little effect.  Hmm.  He tried and did what supposed to do but bad result.  Speed seems to be a problem as bear gets through it too fast leaving one solution to spray far and then shorten distance creating a wall in front of you as well.  Directions don't specify this.  His pistol didn't help either, no time?
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 03, 2016, 10:13:13 AM
I wonder if he i.e. Related to Tom Orr of The a Show Moutain Men?

Dude was lucky.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Greg Mullins on December 08, 2016, 09:02:53 PM
Both spray for people gun for bears ;)
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: huntingbaldguy on December 09, 2016, 11:20:14 AM
I don't even worry about bear unless it's a sow with cubs.  I've seen a few out there and they go their way and i go mine.  Surprised a boar last year in the Olympics.  30 yards face to face, i yelled "WHOA, HEY", he saw me and turned and ran.  I see more fresh cat sign in my hunting area than bear sign.  Cats are what i take a side arm for.  Not because I'm worried about being attacked, but because i would shoot one if i saw one.  Plus i imagine if you're gutting and quartering something, you have the potential to attract unwanted visitors.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 09, 2016, 11:25:38 AM
Grenade
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: mountainman on December 09, 2016, 11:19:03 PM
Been around more "blackers" (chuckle) then most people are in a lifetime. The best protection is keeping your eyes and ears open when in bear country, wether black or brown. Best way to avoid confrontations for sure👍
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Da stump on January 21, 2017, 04:10:08 PM
Howdy, i spent the summer last year in Cooper Landing managing the Alpine Inn Motel for my son Teacherman. We let our guests use pepper spray that other guests had left. You can't take it with you on a plane or through Canada. We never had anyone have to use it but there are monster bear around there. We where about 7-8 miles from where the Russian River dumps into the Kenai River. The talk with the guys i was able to ask was that even a large caliber pistol may be slower because even if you blow its heart out it can still come at you and get you. They recommended breaking a shoulder or spine, open mouth etc. A man in seward last fall was attacked, had bear spray.
Da Stump :yike:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: rtspring on January 21, 2017, 04:27:18 PM
Why on gods green earth would soneone even think of using pepper spray!  At the point of YOU needing defense your life is in danger. 

Pull out the lead and kill the damned thing. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on January 21, 2017, 04:55:17 PM
Why on gods green earth would soneone even think of using pepper spray!
Because it is more likely to prevent an attack than a handgun.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: rtspring on January 21, 2017, 05:09:14 PM
Why on gods green earth would soneone even think of using pepper spray!
Because it is more likely to prevent an attack than a handgun.

Not hardly, Don't buy into everything you read.  I sprayed thousands of people with pepper spray while in the service, just part of my job.  Many people when sprayed are not affected, to the point where they can still do basic functions.  Some it has no effect at all. 

Now lets pretend its not a human, but a grizz or black bear.  It can still function for a few seconds and or minutes or it may not be bothered at all. 

Like I said, if your in damger of your life. You need to STOP the threat.  By that term only killing it will achieve the ultimate goal everytime.  You may be willing to risk spray working on a pissed off creature. But me and many others will not assume the spray will work.  No way! 

Sure most with a gun will not achieve the kil shot needed either, but I would think those people would rather get lucky than pray the spray works. 

No man can handle a bear, they are way too strong and way to fast for us.  Lethal force is what should be used, or else your taking chances.  I don't like taking chances with my life. 

Spray is an alternative yes, but it is not bear proof.  And should not be taught as such. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on January 21, 2017, 05:16:45 PM
Why on gods green earth would soneone even think of using pepper spray!
Because it is more likely to prevent an attack than a handgun.

Not hardly, Don't buy into everything you read.  I sprayed thousands of people with pepper spray while in the service, just part of my job.  Many people when sprayed are not affected, to the point where they can still do basic functions.  Some it has no effect at all. 

Now lets pretend its not a human, but a grizz or black bear.  It can still function for a few seconds and or minutes or it may not be bothered at all. 

Like I said, if your in damger of your life. You need to STOP the threat.  By that term only killing it will achieve the ultimate goal everytime.  You may be willing to risk spray working on a pissed off creature. But me and many others will not assume the spray will work.  No way! 

Sure most with a gun will not achieve the kil shot needed either, but I would think those people would rather get lucky than pray the spray works. 

No man can handle a bear, they are way too strong and way to fast for us.  Lethal force is what should be used, or else your taking chances.  I don't like taking chances with my life. 

Spray is an alternative yes, but it is not bear proof.  And should not be taught as such.
The beauty of America is that you can believe a handgun works better and use it, while I can believe bear spray works better, and use it.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: rtspring on January 21, 2017, 05:23:09 PM
Very true bob,

But take the guy in the previous posts on here that got attacked (fb post)


He was attacked twice in the same day by the same bear....


Hmmm Id bet he wished he used lethal force the first time he got attacked.. 
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Clint Westwood on April 23, 2017, 06:39:37 PM
I practice with my bear spray left handed and my glock 10mm right handed ; )
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: The scout on April 23, 2017, 06:54:00 PM
I practice my glock right handed and my glock left handed, I'm not taking spray with me
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: MAVsled on April 27, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
Bear spray saved my life, or certainly from a serious mauling a few years back archery hunting in NW Montana.
I never went back to that basin/drainage again.
thinking about that experience chills me today. Especially when I read of potential grizz reintroduction into the eastern North Cascades!

I carry UDAP Magnum spray on left hip belt and SW 41mag on right hip belt when archery hunting.
AZ, UT archery hunts too but more as protection from the big cats.

***use spray first, gun 2nd....and a Prayer 3rd***
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: hunter399 on April 27, 2017, 10:55:32 PM
Bear spray is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. :twocents:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 28, 2017, 05:28:04 AM
Bear spray much better at close range, with a pistol you better be able to shoot a fly at 20 yds. as your pants are filling up.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on April 29, 2017, 07:18:57 PM
I have always been pro spray, but with the addition of wolves I think both options are now required at times.  3 issues with guns. 1 is time, 2 is accuracy, 3 is power/penetration.  So a guy needs a big gun with good skills and time enough to draw aim fire plus kill instantly before you are ran over and attacked by an angry bear.  Many times there isn't enough time. Wolves don't attack so suddenly so guns are great.  I don't know how good spray works on dogs, and there is more than 1 target with a pack.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: hunter399 on April 29, 2017, 07:21:38 PM
So you don't draw,aim,and shoot bear spray ,that's quicker than a gun . :dunno:

I guess bear spray is like some invisible shield on star trek , or some magic ☁ cloud that comes out of a fog machine.
 :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: kselkhunter on April 29, 2017, 07:42:58 PM
Bear spray is on my chest holster at all times, don't need to draw to fire.  Just push the button. 

You know the old Alaskan saying: don't worry about caliber of pistol with a grizzly, just make sure you file off the sights so it hurts less when the grizzly shoves it up your rectum.




Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: hunter399 on April 29, 2017, 08:10:14 PM
Bear spray is on my chest holster at all times, don't need to draw to fire.  Just push the button. 

You know the old Alaskan saying: don't worry about caliber of pistol with a grizzly, just make sure you file off the sights so it hurts less when the grizzly shoves it up your rectum.






I will say the chest rig does look pretty handy,but its just not for me .I always have a pistol on my hip,or a rifle in my hand in the woods. :twocents:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: buglebrush on April 29, 2017, 09:10:26 PM
This subject simply comes down to what makes you feel safer and thus enjoy yourself more.  There is anecdotal evidence aplenty to support whichever you prefer, but no definitive empirical evidence either way.  I feel naked without my pistol, so that is what I carry.   :twocents:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: JDHasty on September 14, 2017, 06:07:51 PM
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/09/bear-spray-failure-bow-hunter-mauled/#axzz4sDDpRzqj

Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on September 14, 2017, 06:30:59 PM
Um, did you read whole article?  Seems like a lack of proper use of spray or no chance to use it?  Unless these guys are married standing hand in hand how is a spray failure connected to the bear running away from spray and to the other prey who was not spraying? :dunno:
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Bob33 on September 14, 2017, 06:32:44 PM
This subject simply comes down to what makes you feel safer and thus enjoy yourself more.  There is anecdotal evidence aplenty to support whichever you prefer, but no definitive empirical evidence either way.  I feel naked without my pistol, so that is what I carry.   :twocents:
There is empirical data, but people may choose to deny or ignore it which is as it should be.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Alchase on September 14, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
I can't even believe this is still a discussion. To me it is silly to have to choose.
Packing both has never been a detriment, and in many cases saved lives.
If spray works great, if it does not, I want a backup, or 12 of them.

For every spray deterrent, there have been as many heavy caliber pistol deterrents.
Title: Re: Bear Spray or Handgun
Post by: Mudman on September 15, 2017, 09:32:58 AM
 :yeah: Agreed.  Many who are bear hunting will be armed so carry a spray if ya want.  If not bear hunting or archery then a decision can be argued for weight if its a long hike but both is always the best of course.  But many people don't carry when hiking or fishing and such so a spray may be good choice. :dunno:  After seeing what a .45 did to a bear I prefer the spray over an injured angry black bear charging after 3 rounds are in it.  It is not easy to place a pistol round in a lethal zone from 30yards on amoving bear... Both is answer for most.. :twocents:
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal