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Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 02:24:59 PM


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Title: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 02:24:59 PM
I'm getting ready to put together a new build and am in the process of deciding on what caliber to go with. I'm settled on a mag bolt face and short action. I'm leaning hard towards a 300 WSM, but the 6.5mm SAUM/PRC are still being considered.
My build will consists of a heavily fluted 24'' Varmint/Sendero contour with a Pierce mini mag brake on the end, Manners EH1 stock, custom short action, Oberndorf canoe style bottom metal and 3b extended mag.
This rifle will be used for hunting everything up here along with killing steel/paper for fun. I've owned 6.5mm variations in the past but am very interested in the thicker 300 for leaving larger holes and killing stuff up here.
Hunting distances will be <750 yards, unless I'm chasing coyotes. Paper/steel shooting will be as far out as I can practice to.
All advice will be considered. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 02:30:37 PM
Reloading yourself?

Absolutely!
I have only owned wildcats for the past several years and am excited to be able to purchase ready to load brass and just drop a bullet in, whether from GAP or any reloading shop available.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 02:36:22 PM
I used to run a 7mm SS in a short 23" barrel in the past and am looking to try something new that doesn't require any sort of forming.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: theleo on March 14, 2017, 02:53:54 PM
Either will work just fine, less cool factor with the 300 WSM though. Hole size doesn't matter much with modern rifles unless you're attempting to get a softball size exit wound. the Hydrostatic shock causes the most damage and both of those cartridges will supply plenty.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: rudysts on March 14, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
I have been leaning toward a 6.5 SAUM for my next build. starting to stash away whatever extra cash I have for it. gonna go with a Borden Ridgeline action with a Kreiger or Brux  sendero contour barrel.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 03:02:56 PM
Either will work just fine, less cool factor with the 300 WSM though. Hole size doesn't matter much with modern rifles unless you're attempting to get a softball size exit wound. the Hydrostatic shock causes the most damage and both of those cartridges will supply plenty.

My big hangup with the 6.5mm is the smaller diameter and I am looking for the larger exit wound for the blood trail it will leave behind. In the past, the 6.5mm didn't leave much of a blood trail on fall bears.
I agree the 7mm SS had some serious cool factor and killed everything I aimed it at with ease, but that was down in Texas where animals were much smaller  ;) Couldn't be more happy to be back in the upper left corner again and be blessed with the opportunity to chase bears, cats, and elk again!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 14, 2017, 03:38:44 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout.  I'm shooting the 212 eldx using a stout load of h4831sc.  Trued velocity is 2,905 fps.  The 6.5's are nasty little suckers.  My next gun will be a 6.5-06ai.  My only complaint about my short action is limited seating depth with the big pills.  Wyatts box mag still doesn't give my load enough room.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 03:47:35 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout.  I'm shooting the 212 eldx using a stout load of h4831sc.  Trued velocity is 2,905 fps.  The 6.5's are nasty little suckers.  My next gun will be a 6.5-06ai.  My only complaint about my short action is limited seating depth with the big pills.  Wyatts box mag still doesn't give my load enough room.

The new 3B extended mag is set up for a 3.110" COAL. I'm planning to run the 166gr Hammer Hunter if I go with a 300, otherwise the 127gr LRX from Barnes in the 6.5mm option, whichever I decide. I shouldn't bother the powder column with that overall length in those bullet weights.
I'm also planning to get the barreled action nitrided, which should improve velocity, not just durability.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 14, 2017, 03:51:50 PM
Nice!  Yeah I knew with the heavies I was gonna have length issues.  Stock is getting painted right now but when it's back I'm gonna mess with seating depth some more.  Good luck on whichever you choose.  Both great calibers.  I'm partial to the 30's though :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2017, 04:02:57 PM
I shoot a stock Remington action and 23" barrel, sub .5 with the 215 Berger hybrids at 2760. Seems pretty good to me with only 65 grains of powder.

I am also having a 6.5-06AI done but I really like the 300 WSM. OAL prevents me from loading more than two but it isn't an issue for me.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
Nice!  Yeah I knew with the heavies I was gonna have length issues.  Stock is getting painted right now but when it's back I'm gonna mess with seating depth some more.  Good luck on whichever you choose.  Both great calibers.  I'm partial to the 30's though :chuckle:

Check out the new 3B...
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/internal-magazine-boxes/7786-3-b-bainey-magazine-box.html

Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: sumpnz on March 14, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout. 

What does that rig weigh in at?  I'm fantasizing about building a mountain rifle.  Though thinking of .358 WSM/Sambar.  I'd go shorter on the barrel both for weight reduction and reducing snags while hiking.  Probably won't ever do it, but curious what yours weighed at the end.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 04:30:10 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout. 

What does that rig weigh in at?  I'm fantasizing about building a mountain rifle.  Though thinking of .358 WSM/Sambar.  I'd go shorter on the barrel both for weight reduction and reducing snags while hiking.  Probably won't ever do it, but curious what yours weighed at the end.

A lightweight 358 WSM shortie sounds like it'd be enough to take your head off  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: sumpnz on March 14, 2017, 04:40:29 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout. 

What does that rig weigh in at?  I'm fantasizing about building a mountain rifle.  Though thinking of .358 WSM/Sambar.  I'd go shorter on the barrel both for weight reduction and reducing snags while hiking.  Probably won't ever do it, but curious what yours weighed at the end.

A lightweight 358 WSM shortie sounds like it'd be enough to take your head off  :chuckle:

Eh.  With a brake it wouldn't be too bad.  Certainly not any worse than my un-braked 9.3x62 is already.  And when I say shorter, I mean 22", not 16.5"
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 04:59:48 PM
I shoot a stock Remington action and 23" barrel, sub .5 with the 215 Berger hybrids at 2760. Seems pretty good to me with only 65 grains of powder.

I am also having a 6.5-06AI done but I really like the 300 WSM. OAL prevents me from loading more than two but it isn't an issue for me.

Did you ever run the 175gr LRX in your rifle?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2017, 05:04:18 PM
Nope, I only loaded for 180 ABs, 190 ABLR and 215 Berger Hybrids. Stuck on the 215s  :tup: especially after shooting about a dozen coyotes in windy conditions. They buck the wind incredibly for a 30 cal IMO
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 14, 2017, 05:10:52 PM
Nice!  Yeah I knew with the heavies I was gonna have length issues.  Stock is getting painted right now but when it's back I'm gonna mess with seating depth some more.  Good luck on whichever you choose.  Both great calibers.  I'm partial to the 30's though :chuckle:

Check out the new 3B...
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/internal-magazine-boxes/7786-3-b-bainey-magazine-box.html
that mag length will put the 215 berger at max oal (boat tail/bearing surface right at neck/shoulder)
With a reamer set up for that length that could be a smoker!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 14, 2017, 05:22:31 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout. 

What does that rig weigh in at?  I'm fantasizing about building a mountain rifle.  Though thinking of .358 WSM/Sambar.  I'd go shorter on the barrel both for weight reduction and reducing snags while hiking.  Probably won't ever do it, but curious what yours weighed at the end.
It's about 9.5 finished.  That's optics, rail, rings, and bipod
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kentrek on March 14, 2017, 05:23:53 PM
6.5 would be cool for a light weight go getter deer gun....but if your looking for a sniper you might as well take advantage of heavey bullets....they seem to kill stuff  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 05:46:23 PM
6.5 would be cool for a light weight go getter deer gun....but if your looking for a sniper you might as well take advantage of heavey bullets....they seem to kill stuff  :chuckle:

I'm not looking for a sniper build, otherwise I'd be going with something in a long action and a Norma/Lapua bolt face. Hoping to get this rifle finished around 11 lbs loaded, scoped and set up with bipod.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 05:50:02 PM
that mag length will put the 215 berger at max oal (boat tail/bearing surface right at neck/shoulder)
With a reamer set up for that length that could be a smoker!

I'm hoping to hit the 3250' accuracy node with the 166gr Hammer Hunter in the nitrided barrel, if I went through with the 300 build. That will hammer anything I want to shoot out further than I care to hunt the big stuff; I prefer to get in as close as possible.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2017, 05:56:42 PM
How much will that nitride help with copper fouling from the hammer bullets?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kentrek on March 14, 2017, 06:05:59 PM
6.5 would be cool for a light weight go getter deer gun....but if your looking for a sniper you might as well take advantage of heavey bullets....they seem to kill stuff  :chuckle:

I'm not looking for a sniper build, otherwise I'd be going with something in a long action and a Norma/Lapua bolt face. Hoping to get this rifle finished around 11 lbs loaded, scoped and set up with bipod.

If your not going for a sniper then why build an 11 pound rifle with a vertical grip ?

Just curious
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 06:50:02 PM
If your not going for a sniper then why build an 11 pound rifle with a vertical grip ?

Just curious

I have come to prefer the ergonomics of a vertical grip in relation to muscle memory for how I pull the trigger. I've also found I shoot my best while in the 10-11 lbs range with a hunting rifle.
The rifle in my avatar was 10.4 lbs RTH. I tried a Kimber Montana in 270WSM with a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 before this but could never shoot as well. It was, however, an absolute joy to pack into the backcountry. My rifle before that was a 6.5mm Sherman that was just a touch over 12 lbs and shot lights out.
I'm always on the hunt for my perfect hunting rifle and at some point, down the line, I will find it. Hoping to enjoy the long road to discovery along the way though 😉
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: rudysts on March 14, 2017, 06:50:52 PM
I built a 300wsm last year.  Trued remington 700 action, HCA 26" carbon barrel, seekins brake, bedded in a mcmillan gamescout.  I'm shooting the 212 eldx using a stout load of h4831sc.  Trued velocity is 2,905 fps.  The 6.5's are nasty little suckers.  My next gun will be a 6.5-06ai.  My only complaint about my short action is limited seating depth with the big pills.  Wyatts box mag still doesn't give my load enough room.

The new 3B extended mag is set up for a 3.110" COAL. I'm planning to run the 166gr Hammer Hunter if I go with a 300, otherwise the 127gr LRX from Barnes in the 6.5mm option, whichever I decide. I shouldn't bother the powder column with that overall length in those bullet weights.
I'm also planning to get the barreled action nitrided, which should improve velocity, not just durability.
The Borden Ridgeline action solves the problem of mag length it's a medium length action.

https://bordenrifles.com/category/news/


Getting the right fit in an action for mid length cartridges has been a challenge for years. Many cartridges like the 257 Roberts, 6.5×55 Mauser, 6MM Remington, 284 Win, 6.5×284 Win and the WSM and RSAUM cartridges have been put in the standard short action which restricts overall length of the cartridge and effects its efficiency. Those same cartridges when done in standard long action result in excess space in the magazine well. For that reason we have introduced the Ridgeline series of actions which feature an opening of 3.2 inches in the magazine box

Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 14, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
Sheesh id think the 6.5 Sherman would have ended the search!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: rudysts on March 14, 2017, 06:57:10 PM
If your not going for a sniper then why build an 11 pound rifle with a vertical grip ?

Just curious

I have come to prefer the ergonomics of a vertical grip in relation to muscle memory for how I pull the trigger. I've also found I shoot my best while in the 10-11 lbs range with a hunting rifle.
The rifle in my avatar was 10.4 lbs RTH. I tried a Kimber Montana in 270WSM with a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 before this but could never shoot as well. It was, however, an absolute joy to pack into the backcountry. My rifle before that was a 6.5mm Sherman that was just a touch over 12 lbs and shot lights out.
I'm always on the hunt for my perfect hunting rifle and at some point, down the line, I will find it. Hoping to enjoy the long road to discovery along the way though 😉
I agree with you on ergonomics of a vertical grip and the weight of a 10- 11 lb rifle that extra weight keep me on the target all the way through impact especially from the prone position.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 14, 2017, 07:09:57 PM
We took a 330 class bull last fall - buddy shot Browning Xbolt 300 WSM at 660 yards with factory ammo. One shot kill thru shoulders. Im a believer.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 07:15:41 PM
Sheesh id think the 6.5 Sherman would have ended the search!

When I said I will eventually find my perfect rifle... I may have stretched the truth a bit. It's a moving target and while I may hit it occasionally, inevitably I find something that "fits" more.
I should've never sent that 6.5 Sherman down the river, but the grass is always greener...
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 07:19:56 PM
We took a 330 class bull last fall - buddy shot Browning Xbolt 300 WSM at 660 yards with factory ammo. One shot kill thru shoulders. Im a believer.

That's a nice looking rack!
What round did the epic job?!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 14, 2017, 07:21:59 PM
 :chuckle:   
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 14, 2017, 07:48:39 PM
We took a 330 class bull last fall - buddy shot Browning Xbolt 300 WSM at 660 yards with factory ammo. One shot kill thru shoulders. Im a believer.

That's a nice looking rack!
What round did the epic job?!
I think he was runnin Barnes 180 gr ttsx. Have to confirm.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 07:58:10 PM
I think he was runnin Barnes 180 gr ttsx. Have to confirm.

That's a pretty solid plug for the copper bullet option, even at longer distances! Thanks for the information 👍
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
Based on the voting and the one-shot-drop at 660 yards by Magnum_Willys buddy, I'm feeling pretty confident in choosing a 300 for my next build. Should end up being a pretty sweet shooting hammer.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 14, 2017, 09:21:02 PM
Same 300 wsm couple years ago - this one did go 200 yards with behind shoulder shot.   Any caliber below 338 I suggest shoulder shot unless you have good recovery visibility. Any caliber over 400 yards I would aim for shoulder.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 14, 2017, 09:35:03 PM
Same 300 wsm couple years ago - this one did go 200 yards with behind shoulder shot.   Any caliber below 338 I suggest shoulder shot unless you have good recovery visibility. Any caliber over 400 yards I would aim for shoulder.

In the deep, dark timber where shots are <50 yards, I have a custom 44 mag carbine I handload with 355gr hardcasts. That little thumper anchors with authority, but I wouldn't shoot anything it at ranges any further than that just because there's better tools for the job.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: bullfisher on March 14, 2017, 09:40:50 PM
I voted for the 300wsm, mine is a lazer. I have a couple awesome 6.5's but at a measly 143grn maximum they leave a little to be desired in terminal ballistics despite what the koolaid drinkers say. If I were to do it again I would go with the 7wsm. The high end of the 7mm pills really starts to pull away from the crowd at longer ranges, if your into that kinda thing  :chuckle: .... :twocents:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: lokidog on March 14, 2017, 10:14:47 PM
I like the 300wsm, have only pulled the trigger three times on one though. Every shot connected on my moose at 314 yards, first shot would have been enough, 15 yard tracking job.   8) The gun was my guide's as the moose was a little far out to use my bow.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 15, 2017, 05:16:30 AM
I voted for the 300wsm, mine is a lazer. I have a couple awesome 6.5's but at a measly 143grn maximum they leave a little to be desired in terminal ballistics despite what the koolaid drinkers say. If I were to do it again I would go with the 7wsm. The high end of the 7mm pills really starts to pull away from the crowd at longer ranges, if your into that kinda thing  :chuckle: .... :twocents:

A lot of those measly 140 grain bullets are moving well into the 3000s

 Certainly nothing wrong with the 7mm
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 15, 2017, 07:41:22 AM
300 wsm is going to be a lot better for thumping elk at longer range. It's a great all around deer/elk Prairie dog rifle :chuckle:


I have a custom one with custom dies and brass life is outstanding. Cant seem to wear the brass out. Shoots ragged holes too.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 15, 2017, 12:25:13 PM
A lot of those measly 140 grain bullets are moving well into the 3000s

 Certainly nothing wrong with the 7mm

Been there and done that ;) My 6.5mm Sherman was pushing a Matrix 150gr at 3180fps and did some pretty serious damage on whatever I shot with it back in the day. My 7mm SS was slinging the Berger 180gr Hybrid at 3050fps. I'm just ready to try something new and like the added diameter the 300 brings to the table, but wasn't willing to rule out the 6.5mm completely before moving forward.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 15, 2017, 03:44:08 PM
I have a benchmark built 300WSM on a short action with a varmint taper barrel w/benchmark miller brake.  It rides in a pillar and glass bedded Mcmillan M40A1 stock.  It shoot lights out with every bullet powder combination I've put through it.  It shoots bughole groups at 200 yards with 200 grain Hornady ELD-X.  The 300WSM is an inherently accurate cartridge.  You will not be disappointed going with a custom build in this chambering.   
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kentrek on March 15, 2017, 04:38:52 PM
I have a benchmark built 300WSM on a short action with a varmint taper barrel w/benchmark miller brake.  It rides in a pillar and glass bedded Mcmillan M40A1 stock.  It shoot lights out with every bullet powder combination I've put through it.  It shoots bughole groups at 200 yards with 200 grain Hornady ELD-X.  The 300WSM is an inherently accurate cartridge.  You will not be disappointed going with a custom build in this chambering.

Whats your load for the 200 edlx's ? Imy getting 2850 with rl 17
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 15, 2017, 05:13:48 PM
I have a benchmark built 300WSM on a short action with a varmint taper barrel w/benchmark miller brake.  It rides in a pillar and glass bedded Mcmillan M40A1 stock.  It shoot lights out with every bullet powder combination I've put through it.  It shoots bughole groups at 200 yards with 200 grain Hornady ELD-X.  The 300WSM is an inherently accurate cartridge.  You will not be disappointed going with a custom build in this chambering.

You ever shoot the Barnes/Hammer or similar copper bullets through yours? I like the idea of it being inherently accurate and easy to obtain loads for. I have yet to hear someone say something negative about it besides it's a boring chambering.

I never would've guessed how lopsided the voting would be either!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 15, 2017, 05:48:39 PM
I have a benchmark built 300WSM on a short action with a varmint taper barrel w/benchmark miller brake.  It rides in a pillar and glass bedded Mcmillan M40A1 stock.  It shoot lights out with every bullet powder combination I've put through it.  It shoots bughole groups at 200 yards with 200 grain Hornady ELD-X.  The 300WSM is an inherently accurate cartridge.  You will not be disappointed going with a custom build in this chambering.

You ever shoot the Barnes/Hammer or similar copper bullets through yours? I like the idea of it being inherently accurate and easy to obtain loads for. I have yet to hear someone say something negative about it besides it's a boring chambering.

I never would've guessed how lopsided the voting would be either!
hard to deny the popularity of the ol 30 cals :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 15, 2017, 06:19:45 PM
I've shot 2 elk and quite a few deer with the barnes 165gr ttsx in 300wsm from 30yds to over 500yds. Great bullet and penetrates likes crazy. Out to 500yds you're really not gaining much with the big heavies.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 15, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Out to 500yds you're really not gaining much with the big heavies.

Only exception I can speak to is wind. the lighter bullets are funner to shoot 50 at a time though 
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 15, 2017, 06:42:26 PM
I have a benchmark built 300WSM on a short action with a varmint taper barrel w/benchmark miller brake.  It rides in a pillar and glass bedded Mcmillan M40A1 stock.  It shoot lights out with every bullet powder combination I've put through it.  It shoots bughole groups at 200 yards with 200 grain Hornady ELD-X.  The 300WSM is an inherently accurate cartridge.  You will not be disappointed going with a custom build in this chambering.

Whats your load for the 200 edlx's ? Imy getting 2850 with rl 17
That velocity seems about right for a factory rifle. Is yours factory?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 15, 2017, 06:47:04 PM
I have yet to hear someone say something negative about it besides it's a boring chambering.

I never would've guessed how lopsided the voting would be either!
I'll be that guy!  8)


It's a short action.... so not near as manly or cool as a long action!  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 15, 2017, 07:00:52 PM
I have yet to hear someone say something negative about it besides it's a boring chambering.

I never would've guessed how lopsided the voting would be either!
I'll be that guy!  8)


It's a short action.... so not near as manly or cool as a long action!  :chuckle:
It's not the size of the action that matters, it's how you use it 8)
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 15, 2017, 09:06:38 PM
I'll be that guy!  8)


It's a short action.... so not near as manly or cool as a long action!  :chuckle:

 :chuckle:
I thought pretty hard about going with a 30-338 Lapua Improved, but figured it'd kill anything I was hunting a bit past dead.
I like the short action configuration mostly cuz I can run a shorter barrel and still get an efficient and complete burn of the powder in the case. With the bigger supermags, the required 28+ inches just becomes a pain to drag around, especially if it's longer or a brake is added.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 15, 2017, 09:07:09 PM
200 yard target and load data for 200 ELDX seating depth study.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 15, 2017, 09:10:00 PM
200 yard target and load data for Barnes 168 TTSX and RL17. I've since stopped using this powder due to temp sensitivity.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 15, 2017, 09:11:30 PM
I'll be that guy!  8)


It's a short action.... so not near as manly or cool as a long action!  :chuckle:

 :chuckle:
I thought pretty hard about going with a 30-338 Lapua Improved, but figured it'd kill anything I was hunting a bit past dead.
I like the short action configuration mostly cuz I can run a shorter barrel and still get an efficient and complete burn of the powder in the case. With the bigger supermags, the required 28+ inches just becomes a pain to drag around, especially if it's longer or a brake is added.
im having a 28 inch 300 win mag built. Thought about a bigger case but then decided if I wanted a bigger case I needed to go 338 and I didn't want the added cost and recoil.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 15, 2017, 09:45:31 PM
Ive had similar experience with rl17. Great velocity and accuracy but temp sensitive. I'll stick with h4350 and fed 210s in 300wsm.  Im curious to know at what yardage it becomes advantageous to shoot 200+gr vs 168s with wind and drop.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kentrek on March 15, 2017, 10:37:59 PM
200 yard target and load data for 200 ELDX seating depth study.

That's awesome thank you ! Your way more organized then me  :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 06:52:53 AM
200 yard target and load data for 200 ELDX seating depth study.

That's awesome thank you ! Your way more organized then me  :chuckle:
:yeah: :chuckle:

I messed with a lot of powders in mine and found h4831sc to be the best for the heavies in my gun.  I'm shooting the same load of 67 gr with the 212 eldx but a bit faster on velocity. Has been a great powder to load with.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 16, 2017, 07:39:37 AM
Karl - I'm going to give the 212's a try with 67 grains of SC. What depth are you running? Ron
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 07:52:25 AM
Karl - I'm going to give the 212's a try with 67 grains of SC. What depth are you running? Ron
I'll measure a round when I get home tonight.  I can't remember off the top of my head.  I hit pressure at 67.2gr so to be save I'd work up from 66 or 66.5gr maybe.  Those 212's are a big sexy bullet!  They pack a thump to em too!  So far elk really dislike them :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 16, 2017, 10:32:13 AM
Thanks - yup i'll definitely start a couple grains below and work up. 
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 16, 2017, 10:45:31 AM
Is there an advantage to the new heavy ELD-X option over the lighter, faster copper bullets? I ran the numbers comparing the two and they seem very similar. I have not tried the new Hornady option and am curious how they perform at ranges <100 yards, especially since in my experience, the coppers perform well at all distances as long as speeds exceed 1800fps.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious what the draw is.
Here's the numbers with 200 yard zero:

200 gr ELD-X     BC: 0.301           Muzzle: 2900fps                     700 yards: 2033fps/1835ft-lbs Drop: -12.85 Wind: 3.44
181gr Hammer  BC: 0.272           Muzzle: 3085fps (estimate)    700 yards: 2100fps/1773ft-lbs Drop: -11.60 Wind: 3.52

They're so close as far out as I have ever shot an animal or plan to in the future.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 11:44:31 AM
Can't speak to the copper stuff as I steer clear of them.  I've read endless stories of Barnes failures, so I'm just not willing to go that road.  I like to hit em with a big hunk of bullet.  Small miscalculations in wind aren't magnified as much either.  Inside 700, you aren't gonna see a ton of benefit, but the farther out you stretch em, the faster they start losing steam while the heavies keep plowing forward.  Different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 11:56:40 AM
Run those numbers at a grand and that 212 is probably gonna be 600+ more ft lb of energy and a few hundred fps faster I'd imagine.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 16, 2017, 12:50:27 PM
Run those numbers at a grand and that 212 is probably gonna be 600+ more ft lb of energy and a few hundred fps faster I'd imagine.

Touche! I bet you're correct about that, sir =)
I don't know much about the ELD-X, but have run the VLD and copper styles pretty heavily in the past. I bounce back and forth between which style I use based on distance and what game I was after. For elk and bear, I prefer the copper after a couple bad experiences with the VLD at closer ranges.
How's the new Hornady bullet do up close and personal in your experience?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 01:07:48 PM
Run those numbers at a grand and that 212 is probably gonna be 600+ more ft lb of energy and a few hundred fps faster I'd imagine.

Touche! I bet you're correct about that, sir =)
I don't know much about the ELD-X, but have run the VLD and copper styles pretty heavily in the past. I bounce back and forth between which style I use based on distance and what game I was after. For elk and bear, I prefer the copper after a couple bad experiences with the VLD at closer ranges.
How's the new Hornady bullet do up close and personal in your experience?
jury is still out on it for me.  I had been shooting the 190gr accubond long range with good reaults.  Firat season with them my rifle took 12 animALS from 60-800 yards.  It has been a PITA to do load developement with and after I built my rifle and couldn't get it to shoot them very well I said to hell with it and impulse bought some of the eldx.  This was post hunting season this year.  One of my youth hunters did use it on a damage control elk hunt in january however.  Shot was 150ish.  Quartering away shot.  Bullet exited and internal damage was impressive.  Basically acted like an accubond or SST.   If the draws treat me well I'll be rifle hunting in 4 states  this year so they will get a thorough testing.

I'm also loading some 178's in a buddies 300 win with the same accuracy.  Time will tell how well they perform but they sure shoot good.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kentrek on March 16, 2017, 01:16:55 PM
I had good luck with the eldx on a bull at short range....kind of inconclusive but definitely potential
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 16, 2017, 05:26:31 PM
A buddy in Montana took several deer and antelope this year with ELD-X bullets in different flavors from 30 yards out to 650 yards.  The bullets performed well for him.  I think the key with the ELD-X or Berger VLD's for that matter, is running a muzzle velocity below 2900 - 3000 fps if there is potential for a close range shot.  Rapid expansion without sufficient penetration can equal wounded critters.  Hornady markets these as an "all range" bullet.  I think that assumes you're not cranking them at MAX velocity.   
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 16, 2017, 05:33:53 PM
A buddy in Montana took several deer and antelope this year with ELD-X bullets in different flavors from 30 yards out to 650 yards.  The bullets performed well for him.  I think the key with the ELD-X or Berger VLD's for that matter, is running a muzzle velocity below 2900 - 3000 fps if there is potential for a close range shot.  Rapid expansion without sufficient penetration can equal wounded critters.  Hornady markets these as an "all range" bullet.  I think that assumes you're not cranking them at MAX velocity.

With that idea in mind, not cranking the bullets too fast, I think I'll probably be favoring the 166/181gr Hammers and the faster clip the lighter bullet offers. I will probably have this 300 throated for the Hammers. Having talked with Steve on several occasions, I know there's no limit to impact velocity but just a recommended minimum of 1800fps. Hammer's a whole lot more responsive to customer requests and does some pretty serious R&D on bullets before offering them to the public, unless you're guinea pigging something of your own request/creation.
Over the years, I've learned a formula that's worked well for me:
high speed + large diameter = dead critters with soup for insides
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: The scout on March 16, 2017, 05:43:34 PM
I'm running the 200grn eld x in my 300 rum right at 3100fps, I have shot 5 deer and 2 elk with that load. More time's than not there was know exit hole. I have not had a animal go more than 20 yds, the internal damage is devastating to say the least, I would not worrie about losing an animal by not having an exit hole
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 16, 2017, 06:14:38 PM
I'm running the 200grn eld x in my 300 rum right at 3100fps, I have shot 5 deer and 2 elk with that load. More time's than not there was know exit hole. I have not had a animal go more than 20 yds, the internal damage is devastating to say the least, I would not worrie about losing an animal by not having an exit hole

That's good to know. Sounds like had plenty of penetration and all the energy dumped in the critter do you mind sharing the ranges. I'm interested to know what velocity the bullet was running at impact where it didn't exit.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 09:29:45 PM
Hear she is Ron.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 16, 2017, 10:41:28 PM
You got an extended box or magazine to run them over 3"?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 17, 2017, 08:38:16 AM
You got an extended box or magazine to run them over 3"?
didn't want to go DBM so went with a wyatts.  Still not long wnough.  I can get one in the mag well and one the pipe, which is plenty for me but when I get her back I will seat some to mag length and see how she shoots.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 17, 2017, 08:48:13 AM
You got an extended box or magazine to run them over 3"?
didn't want to go DBM so went with a wyatts.  Still not long wnough.  I can get one in the mag well and one the pipe, which is plenty for me but when I get her back I will seat some to mag length and see how she shoots.

I got the wyatts box as well. 

Those eldx's are looking pretty appealing. Not sure if they'd work in my 12 twist 300wsm.  I think I'm going to try the 285gr in my 338 lapua imp. When its done.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 17, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
You got an extended box or magazine to run them over 3"?
didn't want to go DBM so went with a wyatts.  Still not long wnough.  I can get one in the mag well and one the pipe, which is plenty for me but when I get her back I will seat some to mag length and see how she shoots.

I got the wyatts box as well. 

Those eldx's are looking pretty appealing. Not sure if they'd work in my 12 twist 300wsm.  I think I'm going to try the 285gr in my 338 lapua imp. When its done.
I bet the 178's pushed hard would shoot well
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 17, 2017, 10:46:29 AM
Thanks Karl - btw..that's a great book you've got there.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 17, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
The 3B offers a bit more space over the Wyatt's, maybe not enough to justify the expense of switching though. I'm just now putting mine together and so it's an easy choice to get the longer 3B option and have the option to load out to 3.110"!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 17, 2017, 12:07:47 PM
The 3B offers a bit more space over the Wyatt's, maybe not enough to justify the expense of switching though. I'm just now putting mine together and so it's an easy choice to get the longer 3B option and have the option to load out to 3.110"!
If that box functions and feeds likenit should it will be a short action game changer for sure!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 17, 2017, 12:34:18 PM
The 3B offers a bit more space over the Wyatt's, maybe not enough to justify the expense of switching though. I'm just now putting mine together and so it's an easy choice to get the longer 3B option and have the option to load out to 3.110"!
If that box functions and feeds likenit should it will be a short action game changer for sure!

I'm really hoping so! Should be awesome for running the heavies or pushing the lighter coppers a little bit faster. I'm hoping to hit an accuracy node somewhere over 3100fps with the 181gr Hammer Hunter.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 17, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
Yeah I'm gonna play with mag length seating depth before I make any changes.  Anything over 2,800 with that 212 and I'll be a happy guy so I've def got some wiggle room
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 17, 2017, 01:02:00 PM
Thanks Karl - btw..that's a great book you've got there.
haha.  My phone was dead and plugged in by the bed so had to do the photo shoot by the night stand.  Agreed though, I've got all Ryans books.  Love that hunting history and heritage.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 17, 2017, 01:10:37 PM
Yeah I'm gonna play with mag length seating depth before I make any changes.  Anything over 2,800 with that 212 and I'll be a happy guy so I've def got some wiggle room
I'm guessing you will be able to ram them deeper to mag length and keep the same load honestly. Both guns I've worked eld x in don't seek to mind seating depth much
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 17, 2017, 01:22:12 PM
Yeah I'm gonna play with mag length seating depth before I make any changes.  Anything over 2,800 with that 212 and I'll be a happy guy so I've def got some wiggle room
I'm guessing you will be able to ram them deeper to mag length and keep the same load honestly. Both guns I've worked eld x in don't seek to mind seating depth much
agreed.  This rifle shoots everything anyways..........well except ABLR :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: The scout on March 18, 2017, 10:58:21 AM
I'm running the 200grn eld x in my 300 rum right at 3100fps, I have shot 5 deer and 2 elk with that load. More time's than not there was know exit hole. I have not had a animal go more than 20 yds, the internal damage is devastating to say the least, I would not worrie about losing an animal by not having an exit hole

That's good to know. Sounds like had plenty of penetration and all the energy dumped in the critter do you mind sharing the ranges. I'm interested to know what velocity the bullet was running at impact where it didn't exit.


So the only exits were on animals over 550yds away, one on an elk at 585 and one on a deer at 682. And all the animals shot were lung and or heart shot broadside with only ribs hit, so very equal comparison besides distance. The first 2 deer I shot were identical in performance, they were both about 325 yds shot perfectly broadside through the lungs and the bullet stopped against the hide in the neck. Massive entrance hole and the lungs were vaporized. At first I wasn't sure if I was happy with the performance without an exit, but the more I think about it it's great. Much more internal damage done. So sure I could switch to a accubond and have a pass through. But I like the fact that ALL the energy is going into that animal, instead of through it.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on March 19, 2017, 03:59:47 PM
Scout - thanks for the field report. Good info.  I'm heading to SW Wyoming for spring bear this year and need to decide what bullet i'll be using here pretty quick.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 19, 2017, 04:03:03 PM
Scout - thanks for the field report. Good info.  I'm heading to SW Wyoming for spring bear this year and need to decide what bullet i'll be using here pretty quick.

180 accubonds are super unpicky in my experience and they are reputed to perform incredibly well on game
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Reidus on March 19, 2017, 05:16:29 PM
Yeah I'm gonna play with mag length seating depth before I make any changes.  Anything over 2,800 with that 212 and I'll be a happy guy so I've def got some wiggle room
I'm guessing you will be able to ram them deeper to mag length and keep the same load honestly. Both guns I've worked eld x in don't seek to mind seating depth much
agreed.  This rifle shoots everything anyways..........well except ABLR :chuckle:

Your rifle have anything special with the chamber or just a standard sammi spec 300 wsm chamber?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: yorketransport on March 19, 2017, 07:54:43 PM
How much will that nitride help with copper fouling from the hammer bullets?

The Nitriding probably won't have much of an impact on fouling. It does usually reduce bore friction enough to gain a couple extra FPS, kind of like running bullets coated with moly, WS-2 or HBN. I haven't seen any more fouling from the Hammers than from a standard jacketed bullet. They're significantly better than most of the Barnes TSX bullets I've shot, but I've never seen severe fouling from the Barnes either. :twocents:

I've probably shot more of the Hammer bullets than most. Here's what I've tested so far:

6mm
-88gr Hammer Hunter

308
- 152gr Sledge Hammer
- 181gr Hammer Hunter

338
- 186gr Sledge Hammer
- 225gr Sledge Hammer
- 255gr Sledge Hammer
- 260gr Hammer Hunter
- 282gr Sledge Hammer
- 304gr Hammer Hunter
- 307gr Hammer Hunter
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/628E4A1C-3DAF-4E2C-9D53-EDCB7EEA4C39.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/628E4A1C-3DAF-4E2C-9D53-EDCB7EEA4C39.jpg.html)

With that idea in mind, not cranking the bullets too fast, I think I'll probably be favoring the 166/181gr Hammers and the faster clip the lighter bullet offers. I will probably have this 300 throated for the Hammers. Having talked with Steve on several occasions, I know there's no limit to impact velocity but just a recommended minimum of 1800fps. Hammer's a whole lot more responsive to customer requests and does some pretty serious R&D on bullets before offering them to the public, unless you're guinea pigging something of your own request/creation.
Over the years, I've learned a formula that's worked well for me:
high speed + large diameter = dead critters with soup for insides

You'd probably be happier with the 181gr over the 166gr Hammer. It's worth noting that it's a pretty long bullet. Here's a comparison of a couple heavy 308's that I have on hand to compare.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/2B206EBF-D2D7-447C-9906-FAEDF5D2E234.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/2B206EBF-D2D7-447C-9906-FAEDF5D2E234.jpg.html)
The Hammers have a high BC compared to other solid coppers but they're lower than a lot of the newer LR bullets. You may be disappointed by the BC of the 166gr at longer ranges but I'm a big fan of the Hammers as an all round hunting bullet. That's not to say that they aren't good at LR; I've shot the 304gr 338 Hammer to a little over 1500 yards from the 338 SnipeTac pistol with excellent accuracy, the BC just comes in a little lower than something like a Berger.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: The scout on March 19, 2017, 08:00:56 PM
If you would be interested I have a box of 100 210gr nosler LRAB, 40$ I will ship them to you, on game they perform exactly like the eld x.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: yorketransport on March 19, 2017, 08:10:17 PM
If you would be interested I have a box of 100 210gr nosler LRAB, 40$ I will ship them to you, on game they perform exactly like the eld x.

They're hard to tell apart they're so close!
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/7E8D6895-559B-4BD8-A604-4927CB2E6818.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/7E8D6895-559B-4BD8-A604-4927CB2E6818.jpg.html)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/DA189C2B-5511-4D99-9E7E-205B6A7846E4.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/DA189C2B-5511-4D99-9E7E-205B6A7846E4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: The scout on March 19, 2017, 08:22:20 PM
If you would be interested I have a box of 100 210gr nosler LRAB, 40$ I will ship them to you, on game they perform exactly like the eld x.

They're hard to tell apart they're so close!
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/7E8D6895-559B-4BD8-A604-4927CB2E6818.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/7E8D6895-559B-4BD8-A604-4927CB2E6818.jpg.html)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/DA189C2B-5511-4D99-9E7E-205B6A7846E4.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/DA189C2B-5511-4D99-9E7E-205B6A7846E4.jpg.html)


Yes they are.  Bothof those bullets I have recovered from game have looked just like those, I wasn't crazy about the LRAB because I had to slow them way down to get them to group well, and the eld x was th easiest load to develop I have done and most accurate
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 20, 2017, 03:31:36 PM
How much will that nitride help with copper fouling from the hammer bullets?

The Nitriding probably won't have much of an impact on fouling. It does usually reduce bore friction enough to gain a couple extra FPS, kind of like running bullets coated with moly, WS-2 or HBN. I haven't seen any more fouling from the Hammers than from a standard jacketed bullet. They're significantly better than most of the Barnes TSX bullets I've shot, but I've never seen severe fouling from the Barnes either. :twocents:

I've probably shot more of the Hammer bullets than most. Here's what I've tested so far:

6mm
-88gr Hammer Hunter

308
- 152gr Sledge Hammer
- 181gr Hammer Hunter

338
- 186gr Sledge Hammer
- 225gr Sledge Hammer
- 255gr Sledge Hammer
- 260gr Hammer Hunter
- 282gr Sledge Hammer
- 304gr Hammer Hunter
- 307gr Hammer Hunter
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/628E4A1C-3DAF-4E2C-9D53-EDCB7EEA4C39.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/628E4A1C-3DAF-4E2C-9D53-EDCB7EEA4C39.jpg.html)

With that idea in mind, not cranking the bullets too fast, I think I'll probably be favoring the 166/181gr Hammers and the faster clip the lighter bullet offers. I will probably have this 300 throated for the Hammers. Having talked with Steve on several occasions, I know there's no limit to impact velocity but just a recommended minimum of 1800fps. Hammer's a whole lot more responsive to customer requests and does some pretty serious R&D on bullets before offering them to the public, unless you're guinea pigging something of your own request/creation.
Over the years, I've learned a formula that's worked well for me:
high speed + large diameter = dead critters with soup for insides

You'd probably be happier with the 181gr over the 166gr Hammer. It's worth noting that it's a pretty long bullet. Here's a comparison of a couple heavy 308's that I have on hand to compare.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/collegekidandy/2B206EBF-D2D7-447C-9906-FAEDF5D2E234.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/collegekidandy/media/2B206EBF-D2D7-447C-9906-FAEDF5D2E234.jpg.html)
The Hammers have a high BC compared to other solid coppers but they're lower than a lot of the newer LR bullets. You may be disappointed by the BC of the 166gr at longer ranges but I'm a big fan of the Hammers as an all round hunting bullet. That's not to say that they aren't good at LR; I've shot the 304gr 338 Hammer to a little over 1500 yards from the 338 SnipeTac pistol with excellent accuracy, the BC just comes in a little lower than something like a Berger.

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: yorketransport on March 22, 2017, 03:32:53 PM

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. :chuckle: I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on March 27, 2017, 04:30:57 PM

You wouldn't happen to be friends with Ean Vargas, would you? He told me he had a buddy that was working with Steve, getting bullets tested and favored a beautiful Russo stocked 338 SnipeTac pistol... the video of him shooting it was impressive!

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. :chuckle: I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.

I'll have to hassle him about missing the next time I talk to him haha
Have you done very extensive testing with the 181gr into leather for penetration?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: yorketransport on March 28, 2017, 08:57:53 PM

It's a shame Ean missed the 100 yard target in that video. :chuckle: I taught Ean everything he knows and a lot of stuff he doesn't remember.

I'll have to hassle him about missing the next time I talk to him haha
Have you done very extensive testing with the 181gr into leather for penetration?
[/quote]

I haven't yet but they're on the to do list. So far the Hammer Hunters have penetrated farther than almost all the other bullets I've tested. To be fair though, that's because the petals break off and the remaining portion of the shank continues on without the same resistance as an expanded bullet. So far nothing has out penetrated the 300gr Scenar though. It's a shame that one tumbled and didn't expand. :chuckle:
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on April 08, 2017, 02:02:52 PM
Do you have any on-game performance experiences with the Hammers?
I'm a little bit concerned that tissue damage might be less than optimal if it's dropping petals from impact. Do you have an opinion on this?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: yorketransport on April 08, 2017, 06:23:45 PM
I don't, there are a lot of others who do have first hand experience though. I'm a big fan of the 2 holes theory of bullet performance; one to let the air in and one to let the blood out. In the testing I've done, the pieces of the petals that shear off about 4" into penetration and are large enough that they'd do some significant damage as they radiate away from the bullet shank. This would give you some serious shock while the shank carries on to ensure good penetration and an exit hole.

The owners of Hammer bullets are very responsive to questions if you wanted to reach out to them. They also have their own forum where they're really quick to respond. Plus there's a lot of good info from other guys who've shot game with the Hammers.
http://hammerbullets.boards.net/forum
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 08, 2017, 07:01:44 PM
I haven't killed hundreds of animals like some and I haven't ever spent much time recovering bullets unless they were obvious.

That said, I think expansion is over rated in many cases. So many other factors in terminal performance, let alone shot placement kill animals. This test that yorke is sharing is really valuable and o appreciate it as much as anybody. My only point is that people shouldn't think that only the most expanded bullets kill game.

I've had deer with pencil holes in both sides but they tip over from jellied lungs.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on April 15, 2017, 11:28:34 AM
I don't, there are a lot of others who do have first hand experience though. I'm a big fan of the 2 holes theory of bullet performance; one to let the air in and one to let the blood out. In the testing I've done, the pieces of the petals that shear off about 4" into penetration and are large enough that they'd do some significant damage as they radiate away from the bullet shank. This would give you some serious shock while the shank carries on to ensure good penetration and an exit hole.

The owners of Hammer bullets are very responsive to questions if you wanted to reach out to them. They also have their own forum where they're really quick to respond. Plus there's a lot of good info from other guys who've shot game with the Hammers.
http://hammerbullets.boards.net/forum

I've messaged with Steve at length about his bullets and am actually on the hammer site as "wilkup" =)
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on May 12, 2017, 03:53:10 PM
Still waiting on my action to arrive and continue going back and forth on my build idea.

I'm thinking of going with a true light-weight as I continue planning this build. I've never built anything like this before and am curious what y'all's thoughts are.

I used to own a Kimber Montana chambered in 257 Ackley Improved which wasn't bad to shoot but I'm wondering how the 300 will feel.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: kselkhunter on May 12, 2017, 05:38:18 PM
If by feel you mean recoil, there are some decent online calculators for recoil energy/velocity/impulse that can give a good estimate if only for relative comparisons.

Quick calculated comparison: The Kimber Mountain Ascent in 308 is 4lb 13ounces.  With scope and rings you'd be at <6lbs.  A 175g Nosler at max load would give you around 20ft-lbs recoil.   By comparison if you built an ultralight custom 6lb 300win mag shooting a max load 175g Nosler would be around 38ft-lbs calculated recoil energy.  So almost 2x the recoil for comparing the same bullets in the same weight gun.  But the 300wm will be naturally heavier as barrels are typically 26" instead of the 22" for a 308, to take advantage of the extra powder, so it's difficult to compare apples to apples on weights between those two calibers.  I mentioned it just for comparison purposes as most are familiar with 308 recoil in lighter guns, and should give a feel for weight to target for your level of recoil comfort vs. carry weight. Update - 257AI in 6lb gun w/120g bullet is around 15 ft-lbs. recoil.

Real world personal experience comparison: My buddies lightweight Tikka in 300WSM at 7.25lb w/scope shooting 180g bullet feels similar recoil to my 35 Whelen (8lb w/scope) shooting 250gr bullet.  And the online calculator checks out; they are similar recoil at roughly ~29 ft-lbs due to weight difference in rifle, and amount of extra powder in those 300WSM cartridges.  Obviously the 300WSM shoots faster/flatter, but am just talking recoil comparison here.  And my 8.25lb 7mmRM setup is a milder compared to those two, at around 24 ft-lbs shooting 168g Nosler ABLRs.


Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on June 08, 2017, 04:36:21 PM
Thought I'd share the results of a recent trip to Wyoming where I used my 300WSM to take a great bear.  I used the 200 ELD-X with great results.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213843.0.html

Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on June 10, 2017, 12:37:57 PM
Thought I'd share the results of a recent trip to Wyoming where I used my 300WSM to take a great bear.  I used the 200 ELD-X with great results.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,213843.0.html

Sounds like a pretty incredible hunt with success that is enjoyed once in one's lifetime! I'd love to know more about your rifle build.
Looks to be a Savage action, heavier barrel contour, and McMillan stock? What's the overall weight and who's brake are you using on the end of it.

I just got the majority of my parts in for mine, but am still waiting on the action.

Componenets:
- Bartlein #3 5R 1-10"
- Vais Micro Brake
- Bell & Carlson Alaskan II
- Jewell HVR Trigger
- Wyatts CFE-5
- Hawkins Precision Bottom Metal
- Burris Veracity 2-10x42 M.A.D.

After talking with a few guys, I was influenced to swing my build towards something along the lines of the GAP Xtreme Hunter. I have it on good authority my Curtis Axiom will be arriving in 3-4 weeks and I'll get things like chambering/fluting/threading/etc completed at that point.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on June 10, 2017, 03:13:12 PM
PNW4LIFE - You're right, I'm running a Savage varmint action.  It began life as a Model 12 VLP.  I quickly learned the gun was a shooter and decided to start upgrading components to turn it into a long range hunting rig.  I had intended to upgrade the barrel but the stock Savage varmint barrel just flat out shoots.  I'm talking 1/4 minute good, 1/2 minute on a bad day.  It just refuses to foul out on me too.  So I'm going to keep running it for the foreseeable future.

Other upgrades:

McMillan HTG stock, pillar and glass bedded by Benchmark Barrels
Benchmark Miller brake, incredibly effective
I installed a Timney Trigger set at 1.5 pound pull
PTG bolt body
bolt knob from Extreme Hardcore Gear
Nightforce 20 MOA rail
It's wearing a NF MOA 1000 4-14X, which is an SHV variant available through Bob Beck of MOA rifles, sitting in NF low rings. I'm really digging this scope for the money, its a great value.

Good luck on your build.  You have a great set of components going.
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: PNW4Life on June 10, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
I dig your rifle! I had no idea you could add a custom bolt to the Savage actions. Do they come over-sized like the Rem 700s to provide a tight fit?
Your build sounds impressive and the accuracy it's capable of speaks for itself! I'm guessing it's quite heavy with that varmint barrel, HTG stock, and SHV optic up top. Where's the weight land? 11+ pounds?
Title: Re: 300 WSM?
Post by: CaNINE on June 10, 2017, 03:46:39 PM
I dig your rifle! I had no idea you could add a custom bolt to the Savage actions. Do they come over-sized like the Rem 700s to provide a tight fit?
Your build sounds impressive and the accuracy it's capable of speaks for itself! I'm guessing it's quite heavy with that varmint barrel, HTG stock, and SHV optic up top. Where's the weight land? 11+ pounds?

The PTG bolt is available in different diameters.  I actually ordered mine through MidWayUSA.  If I remember correctly it measures 0.695 OD.  It takes a lot of the slop out of the bolt for sure.

forgot to mention that I also upgraded to a trued up recoil lug and barrel nut from Northland Shooters Supply.  Not sure if they added any accuracy but they were relatively inexpensive upgrades so what the heck.

Weight is right around 12 pounds.  Not a lightweight backpacking rifle...but if precision shooting is required you can't beat a rifle with some heft to it. 
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