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Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Ajj828 on April 05, 2017, 03:20:12 PM


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Title: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Ajj828 on April 05, 2017, 03:20:12 PM
I'm not sure if this is legal or not. But I want to scout deer on some public land but I'm afraid of bears and cougars. I know I shouldn't be afraid of them but I would just feel way more comfortable carrying a shotgun with some slugs while I scout. I'm only 20 and don't have a pistol yet and I can't borrow anybody else's so I'm left with a .22 or a shotgun. If I got stopped by a warden would i get busted for carrying a shotgun when it's not hunting season?
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: chester on April 05, 2017, 03:34:16 PM
Perfectly legal.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2017, 03:42:58 PM
Definitely no law against carrying a firearm for personal protection, or for any reason, really. You don't need a reason, the 2nd amendment to the constitution gives you the right to do so.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Buckmark on April 05, 2017, 03:49:24 PM
Not only is it perfectly legal but buy your hunting license as it is hunting season, coyotes are legal 365 days a year and you might run across one  :tup:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Bob33 on April 05, 2017, 04:53:57 PM
It is completely legal as you aren't doing anything considered hunting for a specie not legal at that time or place. Just walking in the woods scouting you should be fine.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Fungunnin on April 05, 2017, 06:20:18 PM
You can even take your hunting rifle with you if you want. Everyone is allowed to walk in the woods with a gun. Heck you can carry a pistol if you like.

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Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 05, 2017, 07:13:03 PM
When I was in high school I got a ticket for hunting without a license because I let a game warden convince me that I was doing something wrong when I wasn't. Was in the woods with a gun in my truck but I was not hunting. Knowing your rights and being confident in what you're legally allowed to do is a great first step to keep from getting a bs citation like I did back then.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: PastorJoel on April 05, 2017, 09:51:17 PM
Don't practice rattling antlers while out there.  :tup:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:00:03 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Bob33 on April 05, 2017, 10:04:40 PM
Hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so.


So by defined ,scouting may be a part of hunting,even  though your not killing them.Just say your hiking and brought it for self defense.or maybe some target practice after your hike.

There's always two different ways to skin a cat.
Just have to use the right words change scouting to hiking to be sure not to get a ticket.
Scouting is not hunting.

"To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a wild animal or wild bird.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:09:48 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Antlershed on April 05, 2017, 10:10:02 PM
Hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so.


So by defined ,scouting may be a part of hunting,even  though your not killing them.Just say your hiking and brought it for self defense.or maybe some target practice after your hike.

There's always two different ways to skin a cat.
Just have to use the right words change scouting to hiking to be sure not to get a ticket.
Scouting is not hunting.

"To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a wild animal or wild bird.
:yeah: Straight from the regs...
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Antlershed on April 05, 2017, 10:10:35 PM
When you scout you are pursuing,or tracking animals that is clear,and part of hunting as definition.
Not the WDFW definition.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:13:37 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Antlershed on April 05, 2017, 10:15:42 PM
What do you think harass wild animal means.
I think it means harassing them. Scouting (looking) for deer isn't harassment, unless the deer in your area are a bunch of snowflakes.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:20:10 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:22:10 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: buglebuster on April 05, 2017, 10:26:51 PM
You don't need an excuse to carry a gun while walking around. Tell them nothing. The less info the better :tup:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:28:33 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:33:14 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Colville on April 05, 2017, 10:37:18 PM
Never talk beyond need.  If stopped answer who you are and provide ID. They have to have probable cause and then evidence. Being armed in the woods is not a crime. I wouldnt get in the weeds about my purpose, i'm armed because its my right. Dont answer any other leading questions about what you might, or might not, have been looking for. Their questions are never designed to help you. Look up the youtube video of a well known defense aty called never talk to cops.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: bigtex on April 05, 2017, 10:37:58 PM
Hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so. Hunting wildlife or feral animals is most commonly done by humans for food, recreation, to remove predators that are dangerous to humans or domestic animals, or for trade. Lawful hunting is distinguished from poaching, which is the illegal killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species. The species that are hunted are referred to as game or prey and are usually mammals and birds.
Wikipedia isn't a legal definition.

Your fine with carrying a shotgun in the woods.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:54:53 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 10:57:19 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: bigtex on April 05, 2017, 11:02:48 PM
Hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so. Hunting wildlife or feral animals is most commonly done by humans for food, recreation, to remove predators that are dangerous to humans or domestic animals, or for trade. Lawful hunting is distinguished from poaching, which is the illegal killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species. The species that are hunted are referred to as game or prey and are usually mammals and birds.
Wikipedia isn't a legal definition.

Your fine with carrying a shotgun in the woods.
Then I would like to hear your definition , and your source of where you came up with it.
Several decades in law enforcement enforcing fishing and hunting laws.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 11:10:34 PM
  :tung:


Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 11:17:12 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: fish vacuum on April 05, 2017, 11:36:48 PM
Looking at animals and animal sign is not harassing or hunting.

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Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 05, 2017, 11:38:33 PM
You don't need an excuse to carry a gun while walking around. Tell them nothing. The less info the better :tup:

Then there gonna assume your hunting,and charge you with a lot more laws being not followed.

I hunt deer in an area that has elk and the elk season is not open then. You gonna try to tell me that since I am there in the woods with a rifle and I'm even actually hunting, that I can get a ticket for hunting elk out of season?  I don't think that would go very far.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 11:47:05 PM
 :tung:.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 05, 2017, 11:52:40 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 06, 2017, 12:07:38 AM
You don't need an excuse to carry a gun while walking around. Tell them nothing. The less info the better :tup:

Then there gonna assume your hunting,and charge you with a lot more laws being not followed.

I hunt deer in an area that has elk and the elk season is not open then. You gonna try to tell me that since I am there in the woods with a rifle and I'm even actually hunting, that I can get a ticket for hunting elk out of season?  I don't think that would go very far.

Are you tracking and pursuing animals (elk)with a rifle,out of season,and no hunting license?


If a game watches you,and can prove you are tracking,pursuing,or harassing elk.It might be something to think about.

I jump elk all the time when I'm deer hunting.   That happens when different animals share the same woods. The thing is, I'm hunting deer not elk. I don't shoot at elk during deer season.  Carrying a gun is not hunting, license or not, season or not.

Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: outdooraddict on April 06, 2017, 07:54:19 AM
hunter 399 seems to just want to argue with anyone willing to listen,  its in the turkey thread too and now keeps giving us defenitions of wikipedia and his view on "pursuing and harrassing"  its not illegal to carry a gun, its our right. leave it at that and answer the original question, yes you can be in the woods with a gun while scouting.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Bob33 on April 06, 2017, 08:08:06 AM
Hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so. Hunting wildlife or feral animals is most commonly done by humans for food, recreation, to remove predators that are dangerous to humans or domestic animals, or for trade. Lawful hunting is distinguished from poaching, which is the illegal killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species. The species that are hunted are referred to as game or prey and are usually mammals and birds.
Wikipedia isn't a legal definition.

Your fine with carrying a shotgun in the woods.

Then I would like to hear your definition , and your source of where you came up with it.
RCWs and WACs are the only completely valid sources of information for what is, and is not legal in Washington.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010

(62) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a wild animal or wild bird.

If you are engaged in any of those activities, you could be considered to be hunting. If you are not engaged in any of those activities, you are not hunting.

How individual officers interpret the word "harass" could vary, depending on the circumstances.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 08:35:10 AM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 08:50:51 AM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 09:12:22 AM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Antlershed on April 06, 2017, 12:09:56 PM
You don't need an excuse to carry a gun while walking around. Tell them nothing. The less info the better :tup:

Then there gonna assume your hunting,and charge you with a lot more laws being not followed.

I hunt deer in an area that has elk and the elk season is not open then. You gonna try to tell me that since I am there in the woods with a rifle and I'm even actually hunting, that I can get a ticket for hunting elk out of season?  I don't think that would go very far.

Are you tracking and pursuing animals (elk)with a rifle,out of season,and no hunting license?


If a game watches you,and can prove you are tracking,pursuing,or harassing elk.It might be something to think about.
Tracking is not in the definition of hunting.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 12:51:02 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Moe the Sleaze on April 06, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
I can see what 399 is getting at, the definition of harassing or pursuing could mean different things to different people. How we interpret it seems rather a slippery slope to me.  Hopefully our wardens have some common sense.  The ones I've interacted with have always shown it, but that doesn't mean they all will I guess.

To me, the real question revolves around Elk hunting.  Very few of us can hunt Elk on our own, so we always have "helpers".  My helpers have always had valid tags, and I've refused offers from other friends without tags to just "come along and help", because I worry they could be charged with "pursuit" of game.  Even if they aren't carrying a weapon, if a guy is say, blowing a call, seems like that could be considered "hunting".  Or say an un-armed friend goes bailing down into a drainage for purpose of spooking something out?  He could just say he was "hiking", but I think most wardens might be inclined to consider him as "participating in the hunt".  Again, seems like a slippery slope, and where do we draw the line?  In court maybe.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: fish vacuum on April 06, 2017, 02:31:18 PM
Sounds like some people should just stay indoors so they can't be accused of hunting or harassing wildlife.

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Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Bob33 on April 06, 2017, 02:52:22 PM
There is a line, it's not always black and white, but the vast majority of enforcement officers I know are reasonable.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/questions/86/Do+I+need+a+hunting+license+if+I%27m+just+helping+my+child+or+others+to+hunt%3F

Do I need a hunting license if I'm just helping my child or others to hunt?

If you are only watching or guiding, you do not need a hunting license. However, if you are directly assisting and participating (such as driving game or packing hunting weapons), you will need the appropriate hunting license.

Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 06, 2017, 03:21:08 PM

No tracking is not in definition of hunting, but if you track a animal and a game warden feels you are harassing this animal then you are hunting.So it is up to the warden in the end not you .

You can do the same thing without a weapon. I guess according to you, we just need to stay out of the woods.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 06, 2017, 03:35:24 PM
How did this go two pages?  I'm done with the internet for the day.

Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Igor on April 06, 2017, 04:55:58 PM
(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/fnu_lnu_photos/dead%20horse_zpshyadiqpi.gif)
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 06:53:37 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: justyhntr on April 06, 2017, 07:17:57 PM
I always carry a gun when in the woods ,this time of year it's a 12 gauge with 2/0 buck . I also always carry a current hunting license, 2 open reed distress calls and a couple diaphragm for howling .  It's always coyote season .  I also don't think you have to much to worry about bears and cougars , they don't want to see you anymore than you them . I've been as close as 5 feet from a bear and he still chose flight over fight .   
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 06, 2017, 07:25:21 PM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: Ajj828 on April 09, 2017, 05:48:58 PM
I always carry a gun when in the woods ,this time of year it's a 12 gauge with 2/0 buck . I also always carry a current hunting license, 2 open reed distress calls and a couple diaphragm for howling .  It's always coyote season .  I also don't think you have to much to worry about bears and cougars , they don't want to see you anymore than you them . I've been as close as 5 feet from a bear and he still chose flight over fight .   


Do you need any tags for coyotes? I have a small game license and also purchased a deer tag this year.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: chester on April 09, 2017, 05:52:28 PM
I always carry a gun when in the woods ,this time of year it's a 12 gauge with 2/0 buck . I also always carry a current hunting license, 2 open reed distress calls and a couple diaphragm for howling .  It's always coyote season .  I also don't think you have to much to worry about bears and cougars , they don't want to see you anymore than you them . I've been as close as 5 feet from a bear and he still chose flight over fight .   


Do you need any tags for coyotes? I have a small game license and also purchased a deer tag this year.
No tag needed. You're good to go. Fire away.  :tup:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: dmoua on April 13, 2017, 10:48:27 AM
I've been stopped by Fish and game while scouting with my rifle in the summer. They asked me why I was carrying a rifle. I asked them in return, is there a law stating I cannot carry a rifle? and their answer was simply no. We chatted for a few minutes before we went our own ways.

On a side note, if you have your 2017 Hunting license, coyote is open year round. You can use that as a reasoning as well even though you don't need one.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: sumpnz on April 13, 2017, 12:30:10 PM
If you are scouting an area that is known to (or could) contain bear or cougar (pretty much statewide), and bear/cougar season is open, if you get the bear and cougar tags (only an extra $11) you can claim, very legitimately that you are hunting bear and/or cougar while deer scouting.

As noted, even if it's too early for bear or cougar seasons to be open, or you don't want to pay for the tags, as long you have the current year license you can state you are coyote hunting while deer scouting. 

I think the only real issue is that you are not allowed to hunt coyotes at night with lights in areas open to general season deer or elk hunting during the respective seasons.  Which isn't what you are wanting to do anyway.
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: hunter399 on April 14, 2017, 07:03:14 AM
 :tung:
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: fishnfur on April 16, 2017, 07:53:03 AM
A holstered sidearm of choice might make your scouting a bit easier.  To the casual observer, you also look less like you're hunting and more like you're just having a day in the woods.  :twocents: 
Title: Re: Scouting deer while carrying a shotgun??
Post by: BackStrappin on April 16, 2017, 07:33:26 PM
Just remember you are guilty until proven innocent these days.
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