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Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: CP on October 04, 2017, 01:13:59 PM


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Title: Bump Stocks
Post by: CP on October 04, 2017, 01:13:59 PM
Looks like they will soon go the way of the dinosaurs.   

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/353902-senate-homeland-security-chairman-backs-bump-stock-ban-after-las-vegas
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: trophyhunt on October 04, 2017, 01:28:05 PM
Tried to buy one yesterday on midway USA, already sold out for the right handed ones. Was on sale for 150.00
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 04, 2017, 01:57:20 PM
If I thought for a minute they'd leave the rest of my gear alone, I'd probably roll over on this. But, they won't.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 04, 2017, 02:03:23 PM
A lot of stuff is going to go away now that cops were at a disadvantage from this shooter.  They are no longer toys for the range. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 04, 2017, 02:51:41 PM
Interesting that it was reported there were automatic weapons and now that report seems to be quietly disappearing.  LA Times, PBS/NPR and I think either ABC or CBS were reporting that yesterday, directly siting Congressman Adam Schiff who said the FBI told him in a briefing.  I looked up Schiff and found he has been involved in gun discussion in the past and has a pretty clear stance on it.

There are also several outlets with incorrect information about bump stocks being "converters" or fully automatic conversions.

Tragic and strange story all around, both what happened during the event as well as after.

I can't imagine how a person could get in that frame of mind.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: krapmit on October 04, 2017, 03:03:36 PM
I'm a gun nut and I dont see any need for bump stocks to be legal.  Say what you want, it sounded like a fully automatic weapon to me over the audio.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 04, 2017, 03:05:39 PM
What it is and was the masses will never know. In incidents like this nothing is as it appears.

Bump Stocks had JACK to do with it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 04, 2017, 03:19:23 PM
Interesting that it was reported there were automatic weapons and now that report seems to be quietly disappearing.  LA Times, PBS/NPR and I think either ABC or CBS were reporting that yesterday, directly siting Congressman Adam Schiff who said the FBI told him in a briefing.  I looked up Schiff and found he has been involved in gun discussion in the past and has a pretty clear stance on it.

There are also several outlets with incorrect information about bump stocks being "converters" or fully automatic conversions.

Tragic and strange story all around, both what happened during the event as well as after.

I can't imagine how a person could get in that frame of mind.

The whole story could change in a couple of days. Just wait.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 04, 2017, 03:21:23 PM
What it is and was the masses will never know. In incidents like this nothing is as it appears.

Bump Stocks had JACK to do with it.

  +1
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 04, 2017, 03:22:29 PM
Interesting that it was reported there were automatic weapons and now that report seems to be quietly disappearing.  LA Times, PBS/NPR and I think either ABC or CBS were reporting that yesterday, directly siting Congressman Adam Schiff who said the FBI told him in a briefing.  I looked up Schiff and found he has been involved in gun discussion in the past and has a pretty clear stance on it.

There are also several outlets with incorrect information about bump stocks being "converters" or fully automatic conversions.

Tragic and strange story all around, both what happened during the event as well as after.

I can't imagine how a person could get in that frame of mind.

That is because every media outlet wants to be the first to report something, even without confirmation of what they are reporting.  It wasn't until the pictures came out that they had any proof of what he used.  Even those may not be real.  I still see articles reporting automatic weapons being used after the pictures have come out.  Once the sheriff lets us know what they found, then we will know.  Most of us who know anything about those guns can assume that he either used a bump stock or a crank.  He was not just pulling the trigger really fast.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Lincoln4 on October 04, 2017, 03:22:52 PM
Well at least if they ban them it'll save save you the cost of buying the bump stock.  You can still do the same thing with a rubber band, shoe lace, or belt loop if you want.   Won't make any difference if someone wants to spray a crowd with bullets.  At least the liberals will FEEL good until the next evil person comes along...
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Evil_EdwardO on October 04, 2017, 03:25:45 PM
There was an article this morning that had a list of some of the guns in the room. The article said only 2 rifles had bump stocks. I can seem to find it now but if I do I will post it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 04, 2017, 03:38:20 PM
With some practice, a light trigger pull and the right grip it's not that hard to bump fire an AR platform rifle and probably not hard for an AK or Sks either.


I'm with Pman probably wouldn't care if this stupidity stopped at a bump fire stock.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 04, 2017, 03:52:03 PM
There was an article this morning that had a list of some of the guns in the room. The article said only 2 rifles had bump stocks. I can seem to find it now but if I do I will post it.

And I have seen some that says he had 10 guns with bump stocks.  I think everyone is guessing.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 04, 2017, 04:18:13 PM
Inslee was just on the radio talking about a bump fire ban.  If I was a betting man, I would say we have one before the end of the year.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: bigtex on October 04, 2017, 04:48:50 PM
Inslee was just on the radio talking about a bump fire ban.  If I was a betting man, I would say we have one before the end of the year.
Couldn't happen till next year. Legislature has to pass it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 04, 2017, 05:34:10 PM
Inslee was just on the radio talking about a bump fire ban.  If I was a betting man, I would say we have one before the end of the year.
Couldn't happen till next year. Legislature has to pass it.

Initiative, 2018 is my new guess. 70%+ vote for it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: bearpaw on October 04, 2017, 05:44:14 PM
What it is and was the masses will never know. In incidents like this nothing is as it appears.

Bump Stocks had JACK to do with it.

  +1

+2  It wasn't the weapon, it was the man using it!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntandjeep on October 04, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Never saw the appeal of them , other than they throw alot of bullets downrange fast. It's funny the media's take on things before all the evidence comes out. 1st was full auto , next was he modified a semi auto into full auto.
Since Monday morning guys on AR15 were calling BS  on full auto by listening to the rate of fire from the videos. Alot of them said he used Bump fires based on the audio. He did have 4 Daniel Defense rifles with bump fires attached though.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: brew on October 04, 2017, 06:40:17 PM
opticsplanet.com is selling them for $160 for the fixed stock and $190 for the adjustable if anyone is interested
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: csaaphill on October 04, 2017, 07:22:01 PM
 :bash: I care less if it's part of the second amendment then leave them alone. :twocents:
I wont support any kind of ban, parts ban etc... :hello:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Pegasus on October 04, 2017, 07:23:26 PM
Ever notice that almost every mass killer was on some psychotropic drug pretty close to the time when they assploded and went kill crazy? This dude was on Valium and maybe more. Check out the last ten mass murderers. You will be surprised at the correlation of psychotropic drugs and mass murderers.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Angry Perch on October 04, 2017, 07:47:29 PM
That's an interesting take, but it's also a chicken-egg issue. If the majority of heart attack patients are on meds for hypertension, can we assume the meds caused the heart attack?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 04, 2017, 10:34:50 PM
 So how many of those firearms were purchased prior to his prescription?

 After the prescription, would it be lawful to storm his residencies and confiscate all his weapons?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 04, 2017, 10:40:37 PM
So how many of those firearms were purchased prior to his prescription?

 After the prescription, would it be lawful to storm his residencies and confiscate all his weapons?

 These are legit questions that need to be answered.

 Clearly he purchased firearms prior to his prescription.......but once you are prescribed medications such as "Valium", do you surrender your 2A rights? :dunno:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 04, 2017, 10:48:00 PM

 These are legit questions that need to be answered.

 Clearly he purchased firearms prior to his prescription.......but once you are prescribed medications such as "Valium", do you surrender your 2A rights? :dunno:

Or he considered himself not addicted to valium.

Or he lied either to himself or the BATF
Quote
e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 04, 2017, 10:51:26 PM
Pretty much agree with all of you guys. However, we will never capitulate enough the cult of Hoplophobia.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 04, 2017, 10:54:01 PM

 These are legit questions that need to be answered.

 Clearly he purchased firearms prior to his prescription.......but once you are prescribed medications such as "Valium", do you surrender your 2A rights? :dunno:

Or he considered himself not addicted to valium.

Or he lied either to himself or the BATF
Quote
e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

 I'll give you that..........but did he break any other laws committing his heinous act?.......laws that should have prevented everything?

 I know you are not suggesting otherwise KOR, just saying for guys like.......band, wapiti, etc.

 Last I checked, it was against the law to commit murder........but that law meant nothing to him.

 My guess is there isn't a law any liberal/democrat could dream up that would have stopped him.........sadly, those most outspoken libs on this site, like "Band", have nothing more than democrat talking points to share, and have no original thought to discuss.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 04, 2017, 10:57:37 PM
So how many of those firearms were purchased prior to his prescription?

 After the prescription, would it be lawful to storm his residencies and confiscate all his weapons?

 These are legit questions that need to be answered.

 Clearly he purchased firearms prior to his prescription.......but once you are prescribed medications such as "Valium", do you surrender your 2A rights? :dunno:

33 weapons in Oct. 2016.  Valium prescription, reported as June, presuming that this was this year.

Form 4473 (prohibited possessor questions) ask about addiction to prescription meds and use of illegal drugs, IIRC. The other question is about adjudicated incomptence, IIRC.  Neither appear to be shown, here.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 04, 2017, 11:06:03 PM
So how many of those firearms were purchased prior to his prescription?

 After the prescription, would it be lawful to storm his residencies and confiscate all his weapons?

 These are legit questions that need to be answered.

 Clearly he purchased firearms prior to his prescription.......but once you are prescribed medications such as "Valium", do you surrender your 2A rights? :dunno:

33 weapons in Oct. 2016.  Valium prescription, reported as June, presuming that this was this year.

Form 4473 (prohibited possessor questions) ask about addiction to prescription meds and use of illegal drugs, IIRC. The other question is about adjudicated incomptence, IIRC.  Neither appear to be shown, here.

 My point exactly!

 So without infringing on my personal rights, what law/legistaltion could have prevented this?

 This question is open for every liberal/democrat on this site.........PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!

 My Guess is the likes of Wapiti, Band will avoid this like the plague, as they have nothing to say other than the talking points they get from the LSM. :twocents:

 Come on Band/wapiti, prove me wrong!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: winshooter88 on October 04, 2017, 11:24:41 PM
Just taking a tranquilizer or anti depressant does not prohibit you owning a gun legally, if you are addicted then that is a different story. just like mental health issues there has to be proof of the abuse or an adjudication of mental illness or a commitment to make it illegal, an form what the police have said that didn't happen that they can find out. The latest news reports are saying that he had 12 rifles with bump stocks in his room, and 60 and 100 round magazines.

Personally, I see no need for bump stocks or full auto weapons unless you are fighting a war, they might be fun to try once or twice but the amount of ammo you would use costs to much money. When I was a kid (18) my friend and I tried to see how fast we could empty my Marlin model 60 semi-auto 22 rifle. Using a stop watch either one of us could empty all 19 rounds I just under 4 seconds, of course we couldn't do it with any accuracy.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: HuntnFishnRyan on October 05, 2017, 01:46:36 AM
betcha can't say bump stocks five times fast  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 05, 2017, 05:54:17 AM
Like Pman says, I'd consider giving up bump stocks, if I could be ensured that that would be the end of this, WE have to give up something, every time a mad man acts.

Otherwise, I'd consider trading bump stocks for unregulated suppressors, national reciprocity, indictments in the IRS political targeting and hillary email scandals, and a shrubbery.


If we are going to demand stuff that has no effect on whether it will prevent evil people from killing again, then those are MY demands.


Nobody tell the knee jerk left that bumpfire device bans would require banning rubber bands, and thumbs, and physics.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 05, 2017, 07:27:35 AM
Here are two articles on CNN today, take them together:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/world/gun-control-uk-australia/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/opinions/las-vegas-police-military-equipment-alexander-opinion/index.html
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 05, 2017, 08:24:41 AM
Like Pman says, I'd consider giving up bump stocks, if I could be ensured that that would be the end of this, WE have to give up something, every time a mad man acts.

Otherwise, I'd consider trading bump stocks for unregulated suppressors, national reciprocity, indictments in the IRS political targeting and hillary email scandals, and a shrubbery.


If we are going to demand stuff that has no effect on whether it will prevent evil people from killing again, then those are MY demands.


Nobody tell the knee jerk left that bumpfire device bans would require banning rubber bands, and thumbs, and physics.

You are thinking in terms of negotiation. NO. According to them that debate is over.

These are compromises there is no give and take. You are evil., dangerous, and must be controlled. You must surrender property for no legitimate reason. The next time you will agree to surrender more property and be subjugated to restriction, regulation of your property. Once regulated you will pay fees, taxes, and licensing of your property. You will be monitored, investgated, and evaluated much deeper and invasive than exists. Then, finally you will surrender different property and the cycle goes on. Every time a tool is misused for terror by criminals it is subject to complete Government restriction and or confiscation. All the Left needs is a Patsy and we must submit to their agenda. Kinda like BLM, ANTIFA ANTICS, and so on. They trade in violence to advance a crappy agenda.

I say just kill the bad guys.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 05, 2017, 09:33:16 AM
Like Pman says, I'd consider giving up bump stocks, if I could be ensured that that would be the end of this, WE have to give up something, every time a mad man acts.

Otherwise, I'd consider trading bump stocks for unregulated suppressors, national reciprocity, indictments in the IRS political targeting and hillary email scandals, and a shrubbery.


If we are going to demand stuff that has no effect on whether it will prevent evil people from killing again, then those are MY demands.


Nobody tell the knee jerk left that bumpfire device bans would require banning rubber bands, and thumbs, and physics.

These are compromises there is no give and take. You are evil., dangerous, and must be controlled. You must surrender property for no legitimate reason. The next time you will agree to surrender more property and be subjugated to restriction, regulation of your property. Once regulated you will pay fees, taxes, and licensing of your property. You will be monitored, investgated, and evaluated much deeper and invasive than exists. Then, finally you will surrender different property and the cycle goes on. Every time a tool is misused for terror by criminals it is subject to complete Government restriction and or confiscation. All the Left needs is a Patsy and we must submit to their agenda. Kinda like BLM, ANTIFA ANTICS, and so on. They trade in violence to advance a crappy agenda.

I say just kill the bad guys.

Agreed.

You are thinking in terms of negotiation. NO. According to them that debate is over.

That was said in jest.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Angry Perch on October 05, 2017, 12:06:49 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/05/nra-endorses-more-regulation-on-bump-stocks-that-boost-guns-firing-rates.html
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 05, 2017, 12:12:18 PM
Interesting situation, NRA is now calling on the ATF to regulate them and it's all over that it was under Obama's watch they were determined to be in compliance.

Of course, it's all for show.  The ATF didn't really have a choice and it didn't matter who was president.  The way the law is written, they are legal.  ATF doesn't write laws.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: CP on October 05, 2017, 12:17:04 PM
They will be banned, it's just a matter of time.  No one wants to take a stand to support them.  A smart representative would tack the ban on to the SHARE (Sportsman’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement) Act
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 05, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
Agreed, they are history.  With that momentum, will they get after mags >10 rounds?  It will certainly be tried in some form.

I would imagine WA will have initiatives.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 05, 2017, 12:33:59 PM
Interesting situation, NRA is now calling on the ATF to regulate them and it's all over that it was under Obama's watch they were determined to be in compliance.

Of course, it's all for show.  The ATF didn't really have a choice and it didn't matter who was president.  The way the law is written, they are legal.  ATF doesn't write laws.

:yeah:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 05, 2017, 12:46:19 PM
Most likely we get no healthcare reform, No Tax reform, and get a subject of gun bans at State levels at least, mod items banned by name. (Always super effective). Maybe (Tannerite) binary flash bans, all progun legislation killed. To a Democrat this is quite a bounty isn't It? Why no hammers to break window bans? Hammers are dangerous.

Of course, bullet legislation requiring no more than one round discharged per 3 seconds in all settings would be more effective than all this other stuff.

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: bigdave on October 05, 2017, 01:07:33 PM
I smell a rat. The sound of the gunfire was too consistently spaced to have been a bump fired weapon. Someone is trying to hide something. who? Well, your guess is same as mine at this point.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Duckslayer89 on October 05, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Agreed, they are history.  With that momentum, will they get after mags >10 rounds?  It will certainly be tried in some form.

I would imagine WA will have initiatives.

I bought 3 25 round mags for my 10/22 today. And a 10/22.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 05, 2017, 01:35:29 PM
Bimart had an ammo sale!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Wenatcheejay on October 05, 2017, 01:39:33 PM
Why is it so outrageous to want a full investigation of this matter so intolerable?

How can tactics and protocols be properly introduced without that?

If "Slidefire/Bumpfire" is so deadly isn't the news/media screaming "Wolf" a bad idea?

I've not seen anyone defending "Slidefire." However, what I think isn't understood is the law. "Machinegun" is illegal. One trigger pull one bullet is semi-automatic. Bumpfiring by legal definition is still semi automatic compliant. Banning stocks isn't the agenda. Moving Semi-Auto to NFA  is. We are not moving suppressor items out of NFA, the new discussion will rapidly move to put semi autos into it.

That is registration and $200. It is also $200 plus tax and 9 month checks to sell.

This is what is not being discussed.

I know moderators don't want to allow this to be discussed for what ever is their deal but, this matters.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2017, 02:03:03 PM
 :ban:

I don't know why you choose to attack the moderators for trying to keep a civilized discussion and like I said the subject of the topic has no bearing on the rules whatsoever. 

You were warned. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 05, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
Inslee says he's going after an "assault weapons" ban. My wife has subscribed to his FB feed. She got that yesterday.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: h20hunter on October 05, 2017, 02:36:26 PM
I've never seen the allure of a bump stock. Burn ammo to fast. I think firing fast and accurate is more impressive.  I don't know where I stand as far as restrictions.  High cap mags, suppressors, bump fire, night vision....all are risk if further restrictions are put in place on attachments like this.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 05, 2017, 02:55:33 PM
Who needs a 60 round mag and a bump fire stock?Not anyone planning on eating an animal that has 10,20,30 holes in it.If we are under attack by a foreign nation they will be handing out machine guns.If a person believes there will be a time when it will be ok to shoot hundreds of fellow citizens they are paranoid schizophrenics and should have thier guns taken away now.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 05, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 05, 2017, 03:07:38 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2017, 03:12:57 PM
posse comitatus
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 05, 2017, 03:15:32 PM
 :yeah:
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 05, 2017, 03:15:42 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.

I'm, first of all, unsure that the entire military would level their guns at the population. Secondly, an AR-15 would be far more effective than a .30-06. Your argument is "there's no way to win so just give up now"? Throw away the guns and go peacefully about your business? There are an estimated 3.5 million AR-style rifles in the US and than number may be conservative. I don't think the owners of those rifles, many of them veterans, would just lie down and give up.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DRobnsn on October 05, 2017, 03:21:19 PM
Who needs a 60 round mag and a bump fire stock?Not anyone planning on eating an animal that has 10,20,30 holes in it.If we are under attack by a foreign nation they will be handing out machine guns.If a person believes there will be a time when it will be ok to shoot hundreds of fellow citizens they are paranoid schizophrenics and should have thier guns taken away now.

Do you NEED everything you have at your disposal? Home,cars,guns,knives,job,tools,money, the list goes on.

That machine gun isn't any good if its not delivered before the paratroopers drop in.

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 05, 2017, 03:23:41 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.

I'm, first of all, unsure that the entire military would level their guns at the population. Secondly, an AR-15 would be far more effective than a .30-06. Your argument is "there's no way to win so just give up now"? Throw away the guns and go peacefully about your business? There are an estimated 3.5 million AR-style rifles in the US and than number may be conservative. I don't think the owners of those rifles, many of them veterans, would just lie down and give up.

History would say yes, they would back their employer, orders are orders.  Its a fantasy regardless. It wont happen in a million years.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: trophyhunt on October 05, 2017, 03:23:55 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.

I'm, first of all, unsure that the entire military would level their guns at the population. Secondly, an AR-15 would be far more effective than a .30-06. Your argument is "there's no way to win so just give up now"? Throw away the guns and go peacefully about your business? There are an estimated 3.5 million AR-style rifles in the US and than number may be conservative. I don't think the owners of those rifles, many of them veterans, would just lie down and give up.
exactly!!!!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 05, 2017, 03:32:15 PM
I don't see this going to off-topics. It's clearly a 2A issue. If everyone stays respectful, there should be no problem. If they don't, they'll go bye bye. I think we're good.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 05, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.

I'm, first of all, unsure that the entire military would level their guns at the population. Secondly, an AR-15 would be far more effective than a .30-06. Your argument is "there's no way to win so just give up now"? Throw away the guns and go peacefully about your business? There are an estimated 3.5 million AR-style rifles in the US and than number may be conservative. I don't think the owners of those rifles, many of them veterans, would just lie down and give up.
exactly!!!!
Effective for what?The zombie apocalypse?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 05, 2017, 03:53:23 PM
Luckily, the Constitution has set up law enforcement to be the most powerful on the local level - the Sheriff is the most powerful LE in his jurisdiction. He has to allow any other state or federal units to work there or they don't. And our armed forces are not allowed to be used against us except in very specifically outlined circumstances. Having seen the responses of several sheriffs regarding gun control and the subject of relinquishing authority to the feds, I feel better that the localized nature of our law enforcement setup will be an effective tool to keep any federal offensive desires at bay. It would be extremely difficult for the feds to launch against its citizens, even without considering the scale on a geographic level.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: hunter399 on October 05, 2017, 04:26:22 PM
I was thinking more of this product,alot cheaper,more effective,i think I could make one out of a few bolts and a fidget spinner.I was thinking of getting it,putting it on my blackout for some deer hunting at only forty dollars,why not.
Anyway here's some links to what I'm talking about and if you Google it there's about ten articals saying it might of been used in Vegas shooting.


http://twozprecision.com/product/gatcrank-15/


Title: Pelosi hopes its a slippery slope
Post by: T-Dozzer on October 05, 2017, 05:12:40 PM
Not smart on her part. The bump stock is a crap product and not needed , but this is where the "don't give an inch" comes from.

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/05/pelosi-sure-hope-ban-bump-stocks-slippery-slope-gun-control/
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: brew on October 05, 2017, 05:34:06 PM
I was thinking more of this product,alot cheaper,more effective,i think I could make one out of a few bolts and a fidget spinner.I was thinking of getting it,putting it on my blackout for some deer hunting at only forty dollars,why not.
Anyway here's some links to what I'm talking about and if you Google it there's about ten articals saying it might of been used in Vegas shooting.


http://twozprecision.com/product/gatcrank-15/

thats kinda funny...yeah i hope when SHTF that i'm rolling around with a fidget spinner and an office chair so i can hit a target 30 feet in front of me...you can see by using this gadget that you have no support of the gun.  I'll take my "bump" stock and forend handle against this any day.  how many years have these stocks been around and now that someone has caused this tragedy we need to ban it ?  where were all you people years ago when this thing was available for legal use ?  you would have had to know with the amount of rounds it can throw out that there was a possibility of someone using it at sometime for ultimate destruction...Here's an idea---fully automatic weapons are legal to have in certain circumstances so let's ban all of them now because at some point someone will use them to mass murder innocent people...lets all get behind this movement now before it happens...stop being idiots and banning tools rather than focusing on the people using them...will we ever stop people from mass murdering people ?---NO...think about what has happened recently-trucks driving over people in France, how about McVey blowing up a Fed building ?  should we ban fertilizer ?  how are you gonna ban poop ?  we need to concentrate on the individuals rather on the tools they use...we need to be more proactive rather than reactive after the heinous act has been committed.  we will never be able to stop all of them but that is the trade off  for having the constitiutional rights that we have had for 250 years...
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: hunter399 on October 05, 2017, 05:39:48 PM
Let me ask you brew how much did ya pay for a bump fire stock.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: brew on October 05, 2017, 05:43:34 PM
a lot less then i was comfortable paying for it....what does it matter ?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: brew on October 05, 2017, 05:49:27 PM
Let me ask you brew how much did ya pay for a bump fire stock.
how much did you pay for the vehicle you drive ?  you know the top speed limit in the state is 70 mph so why would you pay extra for a vehicle that can go over the legal speed limit ?  oh i have the answer...because you never know when you're gonna need a little more than the law will allow..
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 05, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.
All their jets, tanks, satellites and drones can't seem to beat a group of bronze age goat herders, though.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: hunter399 on October 05, 2017, 05:59:08 PM
a lot less then i was comfortable paying for it....what does it matter ?
It was always too much for me,gat crank is the poor man bump stock and may be legal after the ban of bump stock,you may always considering selling for a lot more than you paid the price on gun broker is going up.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=bump+fire
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 05, 2017, 06:16:32 PM
I see this going to off topics real quick...

So I will help :tung:


You do realize if the government does become a threat to us, they will have the largest, most technologically advanced military in the world protecting them right?  Your semi auto AR 15 isn't going to do much.
All their jets, tanks, satellites and drones can't seem to beat a group of bronze age goat herders, though.

Their has already been a study on the military turning on the US populace if a civil war happens for just reasons, they won’t.

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ...


That red letter word everybody thinks means against the civilian population, ain’t so the men in the military know what it means.  ;)

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: CP on October 05, 2017, 07:23:42 PM
I was thinking more of this product,alot cheaper,more effective,i think I could make one out of a few bolts and a fidget spinner.I was thinking of getting it,putting it on my blackout for some deer hunting at only forty dollars,why not.
Anyway here's some links to what I'm talking about and if you Google it there's about ten articals saying it might of been used in Vegas shooting.


http://twozprecision.com/product/gatcrank-15/


Even cheaper:

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: rtspring on October 05, 2017, 07:28:33 PM
So if a guy walked into a crowded restaurant with a single shot .22, do we then ban all single shots?   

We didnt ban airplanes after 9/11, we havent banned knives, so on and so forth. 

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on October 05, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
So if a guy walked into a crowded restaurant with a single shot .22, do we then ban all single shots?   

We didnt ban airplanes after 9/11, we havent banned knives, so on and so forth.

Yeah but we sure did change the security screenings.  Don't recall a plane flying into a building lately.

That's two different animals to control.  The only solution to stopping gun violence is to go back in time and never invent them.  That's not possible.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: baker5150 on October 05, 2017, 08:26:49 PM
The only accesory that makes a gun deadly is the lunatic using it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 05, 2017, 08:30:19 PM
We should outlaw those.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: konradcountry on October 05, 2017, 08:55:27 PM
So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.

You are correct that it is is not about hunting but the US gov would lose a guerrilla war against its own people and bump stocks wouldn't matter.

There are too many crafty rednecks out there. A lot of them have military experience. They could have 3030s and they would still win. The US gov would cry uncle within a few weeks.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: brew on October 05, 2017, 08:57:20 PM
a lot less then i was comfortable paying for it....what does it matter ?
It was always too much for me,gat crank is the poor man bump stock and may be legal after the ban of bump stock,you may always considering selling for a lot more than you paid the price on gun broker is going up.
h
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=bump+fire
as i said before...opticsplanet.com has the solid stock for $160 but if you get the 6 position adjustable stock it is $190..just make sure when you buy it you buy either the left handed or right handed version....
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 05, 2017, 10:03:36 PM
So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.

You are correct that it is is not about hunting but the US gov would lose a guerrilla war against its own people and bump stocks wouldn't matter.

There are too many crafty rednecks out there. A lot of them have military experience. They could have 3030s and they would still win. The US gov would cry uncle within a few weeks.
The last time crafty rednecks waged war against the United States they lost.Talking on the internet about the need to arm yourself for protection against the government seems neither wise nor crafty.Sounds more like a warning sign and a good way to get a knock on the door.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Lucky1 on October 05, 2017, 11:18:18 PM

[/quote]The last time crafty rednecks waged war against the United States they lost.Talking on the internet about the need to arm yourself for protection against the government seems neither wise nor crafty.Sounds more like a warning sign and a good way to get a knock on the door.
[/quote]

I don’t believe that stating the purpose of the second amendment is asking for a knock on the door. I for one will do everything I can to protect the second amendment and the constitution. Patriots need to be active in government and stand up against tyranny. The left will run you over and take your rights if you don’t stand up and fight. Hiding your guns and pretending you don’t have any and that you are complying only gives them more power.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 05, 2017, 11:37:13 PM
Thinking of the Hollywood government, not the government that is busy making power point slides all day in between their 22 minute smoke breaks.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 06, 2017, 12:01:56 AM
That gun used was a belt fed auto and there was definitely more than one shooter. They literally expect us to believe that an ar platform made all that sound and so many kills. Yeah right.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 06, 2017, 05:54:24 AM
So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.

You are correct that it is is not about hunting but the US gov would lose a guerrilla war against its own people and bump stocks wouldn't matter.

There are too many crafty rednecks out there. A lot of them have military experience. They could have 3030s and they would still win. The US gov would cry uncle within a few weeks.
The last time crafty rednecks waged war against the United States they lost.Talking on the internet about the need to arm yourself for protection against the government seems neither wise nor crafty.Sounds more like a warning sign and a good way to get a knock on the door.

You seriously need to study history and focus on the Constitution.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: konradcountry on October 06, 2017, 11:37:49 AM
So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.

You are correct that it is is not about hunting but the US gov would lose a guerrilla war against its own people and bump stocks wouldn't matter.

There are too many crafty rednecks out there. A lot of them have military experience. They could have 3030s and they would still win. The US gov would cry uncle within a few weeks.
The last time crafty rednecks waged war against the United States they lost.Talking on the internet about the need to arm yourself for protection against the government seems neither wise nor crafty.Sounds more like a warning sign and a good way to get a knock on the door.

The government is going to knock on my door for discussing the point of the 2nd amendment? Well they can stop by for coffee if they want, I really don't care.

If the government turned against the people it would be nothing like the civil war. First of all half the military would not even report for duty.

But the main problem is that the US gov would have to maintain a modern economy while going after an insurgency. Even a few thousand rednecks in the woods with hunting rifles would bring the economy to a halt. The economy would go straight to a depression and the gov would have much bigger problems than trying to use apaches to hunt down rednecks in the woods.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 08, 2017, 04:48:37 AM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Alchase on October 08, 2017, 05:37:33 AM
I truly believe you overestimate the desire and ability of a bunch of rednecks.  Everyone seems to think the scariest thing in the world is an American civilian with his rifle.  You seem to gloss right over thats the same American citizens you've been calling snowflakes and the Nintendo generation, etc for the last twenty five years. 

They might go to the woods for a couple of nights, but they wouldn't stay there and they wouldn't win a fight against the WA National Guard, let alone the active military.    Just my opinion.

Never underestimate the power of a man and his rifle.
That rifle is the difference of him being a subject or a citizen.
If their were to be "illegal seizures" of weapons on a large scale, I do believe their would be quite a few of those National Guardsmen who would be on the other side.
The War of Independence was started and won by a bunch of Bubbas with their rifles.
Obviously it would take something so heinous to spark a rebellion that large.
Would taking away your the 1st amendment rights do it?
How about the 2nd?
The 4th?

Each of those is the difference between subjugation and freedom.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 08, 2017, 09:50:30 AM
I truly believe you overestimate the desire and ability of a bunch of rednecks.  Everyone seems to think the scariest thing in the world is an American civilian with his rifle.  You seem to gloss right over thats the same American citizens you've been calling snowflakes and the Nintendo generation, etc for the last twenty five years. 

They might go to the woods for a couple of nights, but they wouldn't stay there and they wouldn't win a fight against the WA National Guard, let alone the active military.    Just my opinion.
According to the Dems, border patrol can't deport a million of the worst illegals because the whole country would stop functioning and nobody would produce food, groceries would dry up and the US would starve and go into a depression.  But sending every cop and military member out to round up guns from 120 million gun owners (assume only 10 million fully resist--China's entire military is only a little over 2 mil), it would be just like any other day and the Dems could read about it as a little byline in the news.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 08, 2017, 10:32:51 AM
You assume it will all happen at once.  We can also look at Canada, the UK and Australia and find places where it happened very peacefully.

I would hesitate to say it is impossible.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 08, 2017, 02:40:54 PM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.

Pretty amazing overlay
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Wacenturion on October 08, 2017, 05:37:20 PM
Based on this comment.........

So, you don't believe that governments can become a threat to their people when the people are disarmed? The 2nd Amendment is not and was never about hunting. It's sole purpose was to ensure that individuals would be able to protect themselves from those wanting to do them harm, including and especially an oppressive government.

I just wish someone on the news would ask the following.  No one ever injects this point into the conversation.

So by banning whatever, you're saying the forefathers intended for us to be outgunned technology wise at some point?  Way back then, the musket was state of the art.  So why is an AR or any weapon for that matter, auto or not, not protected under the 2nd?  Seems reasonable to assume that they didn't want an oppressive government to have far superior weapons to those of "the people". :twocents:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: fish vacuum on October 08, 2017, 06:05:12 PM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: TimBaleia on October 09, 2017, 07:58:17 AM
I WANT PROVES FROM GOVERNMENT!
In Vegas cameras are everywhere! Show me the shooter carrying guns in the room! Show us all his stay in the hotel since check in!!! 64 y/o with so much gear! How??? Explain that videos with muzzle flashes from 4th floor. What about use of fully automatic weapon statement? Now its not automatic? Oh its Bump stocks... Where is all info about this accident? We all deserve to know the truth!!! My wife left Vegas one day before shooting!

All this freaking politicians make statements Hillary with bump stocks and suppressors, Trump with his "Its just the calm before the storm!"... Who they going to blame now? Where new war will start?

Its not about guns! Its about people!

its not 1980s! There should be so much info about what happened to show us the truth!!!




Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 09, 2017, 08:59:37 AM
There are reasons to be skeptical of the FBI, but the 4th floor video has been explained.  I don't find it impossible for a 64 year old to carry that much equipment to his room, and/or unnoticed.  And of course gun grabbers will use any tragedy, whether details are known, to support their agenda, while the story constantly changes as new details emerge, giving the opportunity for conspiracy inclined to cast doubt on the official investigation.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 09, 2017, 09:05:27 AM
And of course gun grabbers will use any tragedy, whether details are known, to support their agenda, while the story constantly changes as new details emerge,
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: hunter399 on October 09, 2017, 09:13:08 AM
Have you guys seen this ad.

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 09, 2017, 10:47:42 AM
I truly believe you overestimate the desire and ability of a bunch of rednecks.  Everyone seems to think the scariest thing in the world is an American civilian with his rifle.  You seem to gloss right over thats the same American citizens you've been calling snowflakes and the Nintendo generation, etc for the last twenty five years. 

They might go to the woods for a couple of nights, but they wouldn't stay there and they wouldn't win a fight against the WA National Guard, let alone the active military.    Just my opinion.

Your implication is that those in the WA Nat gaurd are willing to wage war on their neighbors... I find this unlikely.  Most servicemen I know, and vets, seem to have a better understanding of American rights than most civilians.

Most people fail to understand that civilization is a thin veneer. Law and order is only possible because a huge majority of the population belive that the rule of law, the police and our servicemen are our allies and we are one.  As soon a a huge swath of Citizens no longer feel this to be the case it will be complete bedlam.  I would have to check my numbers so please correct me but my understanding is one cop per 10k citizens. Perhaps is you added all those employed in the military and different enforcement orgs you may be able to get that number to 5k per cop/military... not really good numbers.

Let's add to this fact that even those pro gun grabbers are unlikely to widely sit by if the state chose to wage wholesale war on its citizens.

One last difference is that in Nam there were safe places to retreat, rest and reorganize this would not be very likely in a civil war type senerio.

We should all pray that this never happens because the outcome would be quite bloody and the likely hood of more freedom isnt as Hollywoodesk as people think.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 09, 2017, 12:18:22 PM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Curly on October 09, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
I WANT PROVES FROM GOVERNMENT!
In Vegas cameras are everywhere! Show me the shooter carrying guns in the room! Show us all his stay in the hotel since check in!!! 64 y/o with so much gear! How??? Explain that videos with muzzle flashes from 4th floor. What about use of fully automatic weapon statement? Now its not automatic? Oh its Bump stocks... Where is all info about this accident? We all deserve to know the truth!!! My wife left Vegas one day before shooting!

All this freaking politicians make statements Hillary with bump stocks and suppressors, Trump with his "Its just the calm before the storm!"... Who they going to blame now? Where new war will start?

Its not about guns! Its about people!

its not 1980s! There should be so much info about what happened to show us the truth!!!

 :yeah:  I want info now too.  This incident is really strange regarding info (or lack of).

I will add though, that just because the guy was 64 yrs old doesn't make it impossible that he could get all that gear up into his room.  He did have 5 days to haul that gear up to his room.

There is going to be a ton of conspiracy theories because of how slowly information is flowing. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 09, 2017, 01:01:36 PM
Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.

Respectfully, that is EXACTLY what an echo sounds like.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: TimBaleia on October 09, 2017, 03:31:48 PM
:yeah:  I want info now too.  This incident is really strange regarding info (or lack of).

I will add though, that just because the guy was 64 yrs old doesn't make it impossible that he could get all that gear up into his room.  He did have 5 days to haul that gear up to his room.

There is going to be a ton of conspiracy theories because of how slowly information is flowing.

Exactly! Im not saying that its impossible and it wasnt him! I want CCTV videos of his activity during his stay (5 days to carry guns in his room)!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 09:38:31 AM
Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.

Respectfully, that is EXACTLY what an echo sounds like.

t=223s

Respectfully, I know what an echo sounds like. The sounds recorded are not echo. This guy seems to be very versed in shooting and his data and findings are relied on by the judicial system.


The first second of the video has far away gun fire. Then up close. Echo is opposite of that. Soft noise 1 second. Loud noise 3 seconds. Not an echo I have seen the video in full length it just keeps getting removed.


Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: weatherbow21 on October 10, 2017, 09:58:47 AM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 10, 2017, 10:08:53 AM
I was under the impression the 556 was intended to wound/mame  people..  not be a man stopper like the 308. Wounded take more people out of the fight.

I'm openbto possible alternatives to the "official" responce so far because so much is out there that doesn't make sense. I'm also more inclined to believe what the sherrifs department is saying than the FIB. Are there 2 shooters? Possibly, but ONE thing is for certain. He was not the lone gunman they led us to belive.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 10, 2017, 10:19:43 AM
Lawsuit filed against makers of bump stocks..so is that like suing GM if a Duramax is driven into a crowd of people.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 10:33:15 AM
Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.

Respectfully, that is EXACTLY what an echo sounds like.

Respectfully, I know what an echo sounds like. The sounds recorded are not echo.


Fair enough.  First burst from further back within the room.  Second one closer to window?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 11:06:50 AM
Within the room is far fetched.  The guy running to the other room is even more far fetched.  50 yards down the building is not going to be that soft of a thud.  it would still be very loud.  The video evidence is undisputable and if questions aren't answered a lot more people will be watching alex jones and distrusting the feds. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 11:12:30 AM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk


Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?

Nice first post!  Welcome to the site!  :tup:  I believe what I hear and see with my eyes from the undisputable video evidence...  Please provide something that disputes the proof that has been recorded by hundreds.  You really think that much killing was done with a AR-15 on some cheap $250.00 bump stock???  The rate of fire is way off.  The multiple gunshots going off at different distances is undisputable.  Please give me your analysis of what you hear and see in the above three videos...  I'm dying to hear this.  If youyr a paid troll to discredit theory's by conservatives like me, you have a big battle on your hands cause the videos have all been saved.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 11:16:20 AM
43 seconds into the video long volley of distant gunfire.  No echo about it.  Then the up close gunfire.  Two shooters for sure. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on October 10, 2017, 11:18:30 AM
The video is good scientific evidence and is much harder to dispute than the trained ear of those whom have actually been shot at... both of which draw doubt on the B'S that has been peddled to us so far..

At first I thought it was the bump stop guns, because I have been around when they have been used, but I was quickly purswaded this wasn't the case by those whom have been shot at and can tell you what the gun is, and where it's likely coming from going to by the sound.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 10, 2017, 11:20:02 AM
43 seconds into the video long volley of distant gunfire.  No echo about it.  Then the up close gunfire.  Two shooters for sure.

 Couldn't that be firing out one window facing 90* away and the second volley moving to the other window and firing in the direction of the video?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: weatherbow21 on October 10, 2017, 11:25:20 AM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk


Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?

Nice first post!  Welcome to the site!  :tup:  I believe what I hear and see with my eyes from the undisputable video evidence...  Please provide something that disputes the proof that has been recorded by hundreds.  You really think that much killing was done with a AR-15 on some cheap $250.00 bump stock???  The rate of fire is way off.  The multiple gunshots going off at different distances is undisputable.  Please give me your analysis of what you hear and see in the above three videos...  I'm dying to hear this.  If youyr a paid troll to discredit theory's by conservatives like me, you have a big battle on your hands cause the videos have all been saved.

Thank you. I was a long term member before, I apparently forgot my password so just made a new account. I quit coming on here because of internet experts like you, but I still come on and lurk around hunting season to see how others are doing, this topic peaked my interest.

I've read plenty of threads with your hard headed comments, and don't need to get into any argument with you, I simply stated my opinion and stand by it. It is not far fetched to me, for a guy with several ARs equipped with bump fire stocks and stacks of 60 round mags to fire 600 rounds (only 10 mag changes) in the neighborhood of 11 minutes. A trained expert (like yourself) could have killed thousands; a scary thought.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: fowl smacker on October 10, 2017, 11:43:09 AM
I'll toss in my  :twocents:.  I have owned a bump fire (slide fire brand) stock.  Ended up selling it long ago because it was pretty much worthless for anything besides wasting money on ammo.  The sound of the shots on any of the videos from the Vegas shooting is NOT from a bump or slide fire stock.  Not even close!  I'm no forensic firearm expert, but I can tell you from shooting experience.  If this wasn't a step toward taking other gun rights away, I'd say so what for trying to ban bump fire stocks, but this is only the begining!
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 10, 2017, 12:37:06 PM
CBS is reporting he used the freight elevators.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 12:50:25 PM
Which is what Steve Wynn suggested several days ago. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 12:54:02 PM
Within the room is far fetched.  The guy running to the other room is even more far fetched.  50 yards down the building is not going to be that soft of a thud.  it would still be very loud.  The video evidence is undisputable and if questions aren't answered a lot more people will be watching alex jones and distrusting the feds. 

You are obviously convinced of this opinion, and you are entitled to be so.  I have seen so many conspiracy theories thrown about on this, and on other instances, by so-called experts using limited bodies of evidence, that I prefer to retain an open mind until all trustworthy evidence forecloses all but one or two reasonable explanations.  We are not there yet, not by a long shot.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 10, 2017, 01:05:07 PM
Which is what Steve Wynn suggested several days ago.

10 suitcases were found in his room, to me that suggests he made more than one trip to the hotel as all reports reference a "car" which wouldn't hold the 10 suitcases in his room plus an additional suitcase and duffel bag found in his car.

Another question I haven't seen asked is why he was in the Mandalay and not the Luxor which is directly across the street from the concert and would have cut a good 100 yards off the north end of the venue.  He gambled a ton and had money to spend, he could have gotten a room comped there just as easily.  They note him scouting out multiple other events along with the 10 suitcases and cameras suggests this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Within the room is far fetched.  The guy running to the other room is even more far fetched.  50 yards down the building is not going to be that soft of a thud.  it would still be very loud.  The video evidence is undisputable and if questions aren't answered a lot more people will be watching alex jones and distrusting the feds. 

You are obviously convinced of this opinion, and you are entitled to be so.  I have seen so many conspiracy theories thrown about on this, and on other instances, by so-called experts using limited bodies of evidence, that I prefer to retain an open mind until all trustworthy evidence forecloses all but one or two reasonable explanations.  We are not there yet, not by a long shot.

That's a very level headed way to think about it. I am still in disbelief.


Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk


Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?

Nice first post!  Welcome to the site!  :tup:  I believe what I hear and see with my eyes from the undisputable video evidence...  Please provide something that disputes the proof that has been recorded by hundreds.  You really think that much killing was done with a AR-15 on some cheap $250.00 bump stock???  The rate of fire is way off.  The multiple gunshots going off at different distances is undisputable.  Please give me your analysis of what you hear and see in the above three videos...  I'm dying to hear this.  If youyr a paid troll to discredit theory's by conservatives like me, you have a big battle on your hands cause the videos have all been saved.

Thank you. I was a long term member before, I apparently forgot my password so just made a new account. I quit coming on here because of internet experts like you, but I still come on and lurk around hunting season to see how others are doing, this topic peaked my interest.

I've read plenty of threads with your hard headed comments, and don't need to get into any argument with you, I simply stated my opinion and stand by it. It is not far fetched to me, for a guy with several ARs equipped with bump fire stocks and stacks of 60 round mags to fire 600 rounds (only 10 mag changes) in the neighborhood of 11 minutes. A trained expert (like yourself) could have killed thousands; a scary thought.

 Sounds very obvious to many as well as myself. No science degree needed to hear distant shots before very close gunfire and know that's not how echos work. 

Had many people who have used the m240 bravo extensively agree that was the gun used.  Watch the video at the two spots I mentioned and tell me your opinion...  instead you don't even take the time to listen and tell me what you think is being heard.  43 seconds. Far away long volley of machine gun fire. Seconds later up close very close.  Exact opposite of how echos work.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 06:14:40 PM

Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?

With the amount of bullets fired I think the kill and injury count was accurately depicted.  Does an m240 bravo in 5.56 kill more firing 600 rounds than an AR-15 fireing the same amount of rounds?  The rate of fire is FASTER on an ar-15 in 5.56 with a bump stock.  I'd say same amount of lead down field same chance of hitting people.  The slower rate of fire might make it a little easier to keep aim.  I do think he could have shot more if he was using the m240b than he did but who really knows what happened. It's clear to me it's not what we are being told.  Do you have another theory for the slower rate of fire?  Cause anyone who's shot an ar w bump knows that's not the sound made. And anyone I've spoke with that had any m240b action claimed that was the culprit. Go find a m240 video of your own.  Compare it to the long volley of rounds in Vegas.

Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 06:24:09 PM
Yeah, that video that is ten minutes long, within the first ten seconds you are hearing echo, live fire, echo.  He started the vid after the first instance of fire, and he only caught the echo for that volley.

As far as rate of fire of a bump stock AR, it would depend on a lot of things, including ammo, how it's gassed, buffer and spring, trigger (perhaps), the bump stock, resilience or springiness of the grip, etc.  I am not surprised that a bump stock AR might cone close to 600 RPM.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: fowl smacker on October 10, 2017, 06:28:09 PM
All they need to do is find some of the shot bullets either from people or lying around where people were being shot to figure out what gun was being used.  A .223 or 5.56 is going to be substantially smaller than that of the 7.62 round fired from the m240 machine gun.  Basic forensics should be able to tell this.  Obvioulsy if they find that nothing but 7.62 bullets killed people, then the bump stock theory that all the left wing democrats want us to believe in will be known as a hoax.  Will we ever find out this info?
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 10, 2017, 09:28:46 PM
Yeah, that video that is ten minutes long, within the first ten seconds you are hearing echo, live fire, echo.  He started the vid after the first instance of fire, and he only caught the echo for that volley.

As far as rate of fire of a bump stock AR, it would depend on a lot of things, including ammo, how it's gassed, buffer and spring, trigger (perhaps), the bump stock, resilience or springiness of the grip, etc.  I am not surprised that a bump stock AR might cone close to 600 RPM.


47 seconds. No loud burst before your "echo" 1:09 very loud burst very close. Exact opposite of echo. Two shooters. From 40-47 you hear no shots. Then long volley from 47-57 at a far distance, then 1:09 loud very loud.  Seems simple. Loud before echo. Atleast listen to those time frames in the video.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 10, 2017, 09:46:40 PM
Within the room is far fetched.  The guy running to the other room is even more far fetched.  50 yards down the building is not going to be that soft of a thud.  it would still be very loud.  The video evidence is undisputable and if questions aren't answered a lot more people will be watching alex jones and distrusting the feds. 

You are obviously convinced of this opinion, and you are entitled to be so.  I have seen so many conspiracy theories thrown about on this, and on other instances, by so-called experts using limited bodies of evidence, that I prefer to retain an open mind until all trustworthy evidence forecloses all but one or two reasonable explanations.  We are not there yet, not by a long shot.

That's a very level headed way to think about it. I am still in disbelief.


Don't believe the AR Bump stock at all.
I don't think that video is using the real audio from Las Vegas. The video from the taxi had much less consistent gunfire.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk


Figured you'd deny what's solid evidence.  The taxi clip is not used for overlay in this video. The shooting went on for minutes. This video only used a long volley of rounds to compare the rate of fire. The sound clip used is from the same video on the left of the screen. I knew when I first heard the gunfire it was a lmg and I knew there was two shooting locations hundreds of yards apart at least.  Loud gunfire then quiet gunfire hundreds of yards away.  If you believe the FBI when they tell you on shooter ar anything bump fire or not then your a sheep. But you've proven that time and again and I have little faith you'll ever try to be diplomatic on topics so your opinion has little weight.

You really think two shooters including a belt fed machine gun would have only killed 50-60 people in a crowd of 22,000? 11-12 minutes of shooting?

Nice first post!  Welcome to the site!  :tup:  I believe what I hear and see with my eyes from the undisputable video evidence...  Please provide something that disputes the proof that has been recorded by hundreds.  You really think that much killing was done with a AR-15 on some cheap $250.00 bump stock???  The rate of fire is way off.  The multiple gunshots going off at different distances is undisputable.  Please give me your analysis of what you hear and see in the above three videos...  I'm dying to hear this.  If youyr a paid troll to discredit theory's by conservatives like me, you have a big battle on your hands cause the videos have all been saved.

Thank you. I was a long term member before, I apparently forgot my password so just made a new account. I quit coming on here because of internet experts like you, but I still come on and lurk around hunting season to see how others are doing, this topic peaked my interest.

I've read plenty of threads with your hard headed comments, and don't need to get into any argument with you, I simply stated my opinion and stand by it. It is not far fetched to me, for a guy with several ARs equipped with bump fire stocks and stacks of 60 round mags to fire 600 rounds (only 10 mag changes) in the neighborhood of 11 minutes. A trained expert (like yourself) could have killed thousands; a scary thought.
Watch the video at the two spots I mentioned and tell me your opinion...  instead you don't even take the time to listen and tell me what you think is being heard.

 Did you take the time to think about my question? :dunno:
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 09:58:12 PM
Have some patience, please.

I listened now that you've narrowed it down. 

Few things.  Position of phone mic is changing during all relevant times, including inside and outside of car, while position of car is changing, changing sound path and environment.  That does not help clarity.

47 - 57 second burst is muffled and sounds like the echo in the first few seconds.  Could be firing from a recessed position within room and/or from location 1 or 2 in the adjoining suites more distant or with a longer or more tortured sound path.

Later 1:09 burst, obviously louder, could have been from the other of the two firing positions and/or less recessed from the room.

Inconclusive, IMO.

Is that louder report bullets striking or muzzle report, because it appears that the lower frequency report (the one that sounds like an echo in the first ten seconds) is delayed from and interspersed with the louder 1:09 sequence?

The "forensic acoustic analysis" guy kind of covers that.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 10, 2017, 10:27:53 PM
Aspect of the shooter and any obstructions in the sound's path can really change up the sound as heard.  If you have had shots fired your way, it sounds louder than the shooter firing the opposite direction but from the same spot.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2017, 11:05:04 PM
And FWIW, rounds smacking pavement probaby sound a lot louder than rounds impacting a crowd of victims.  As time went on, crowds dispersed.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 11, 2017, 12:24:41 AM
Aspect of the shooter and any obstructions in the sound's path can really change up the sound as heard.  If you have had shots fired your way, it sounds louder than the shooter firing the opposite direction but from the same spot.

 Which was the point of my question that DIY seems to have chosen not to address.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 11, 2017, 07:30:44 AM
I figured by my other replies you'd see that I don't believe the guy was running to and from rooms or around the room the guns were in. Was there even guns in the second room?  I haven't heard of shell casings or anything from the other room. 
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Stein on October 11, 2017, 09:01:53 AM
I haven't seen any pictures or accounts of the second room other than the door was locked when police arrived and they had to force their way in.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 11, 2017, 09:43:14 AM
I figured by my other replies you'd see that I don't believe the guy was running to and from rooms or around the room the guns were in. Was there even guns in the second room?  I haven't heard of shell casings or anything from the other room. 

0:47 seconds to 1:09 is 22 seconds.   A sprint is not exactly required to cover that ground in a 1,700 sqft. (combined) suite.  If he had designs to get the tanks to leak and/or cause an explosion/fire, or if the crowd started dispersing presenting less desirable targets, it would make sense to change positions.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Curly on October 11, 2017, 10:31:25 AM
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 11, 2017, 11:30:02 AM
I figured by my other replies you'd see that I don't believe the guy was running to and from rooms or around the room the guns were in. Was there even guns in the second room?  I haven't heard of shell casings or anything from the other room. 

0:47 seconds to 1:09 is 22 seconds.   A sprint is not exactly required to cover that ground in a 1,700 sqft. (combined) suite.  If he had designs to get the tanks to leak and/or cause an explosion/fire, or if the crowd started dispersing presenting less desirable targets, it would make sense to change positions.

47-57 long distance fire is still going. Then at 1:09 close gunfire. ten seconds to run to the other room. The map that was shown didn't Showa connecting suite. I remember the map showing seperate hall way entrances for each room and no connecting door. I have been wrong before though. Wouldn't be the first or the last time.  Seems like most here are really stretching to determine a second shooter wasnt there. Seems pretty obvious to me. So you do agree that the soft shots heard from 47-57 are a completely different set of shots than the close ones at 1:09 and not echo from close shots that hadn't happened yet?  Seen a few more videos that are pretty obvious too. Multiple guns at multiple locations firing at the same time.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: huntnphool on October 11, 2017, 01:03:54 PM
I figured by my other replies you'd see that I don't believe the guy was running to and from rooms or around the room the guns were in. Was there even guns in the second room?  I haven't heard of shell casings or anything from the other room. 

0:47 seconds to 1:09 is 22 seconds.   A sprint is not exactly required to cover that ground in a 1,700 sqft. (combined) suite.  If he had designs to get the tanks to leak and/or cause an explosion/fire, or if the crowd started dispersing presenting less desirable targets, it would make sense to change positions.
  Seems like most here are really stretching. So you do agree that the soft shots heard from 47-57 are a completely different set of shots than the close ones at 1:09 and not echo from close shots that hadn't happened yet?

 A gun fired 45* or more opposite direction from you sounds completely different than the same one firing in your direction is all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 11, 2017, 02:58:09 PM
I figured by my other replies you'd see that I don't believe the guy was running to and from rooms or around the room the guns were in. Was there even guns in the second room?  I haven't heard of shell casings or anything from the other room. 

0:47 seconds to 1:09 is 22 seconds.   A sprint is not exactly required to cover that ground in a 1,700 sqft. (combined) suite.  If he had designs to get the tanks to leak and/or cause an explosion/fire, or if the crowd started dispersing presenting less desirable targets, it would make sense to change positions.

47-57 long distance fire is still going. Then at 1:09 close gunfire. ten seconds to run to the other room. The map that was shown didn't Showa connecting suite. I remember the map showing seperate hall way entrances for each room and no connecting door. I have been wrong before though. Wouldn't be the first or the last time.  Seems like most here are really stretching to determine a second shooter wasnt there. Seems pretty obvious to me. So you do agree that the soft shots heard from 47-57 are a completely different set of shots than the close ones at 1:09 and not echo from close shots that hadn't happened yet?  Seen a few more videos that are pretty obvious too. Multiple guns at multiple locations firing at the same time.


Ten seconds and I can walk to the other end of my house.  I don't need to run.   And as I recall, the suites were connecting.

I'll await the brass discovered at the second shooter location, differences in ballistics attributable an unrecovered rifle, and unexplained bullet trajectory/injury evidence, before I'll entertain the thought of a second shooter on the advice of amateur conspiracy theorists that dismiss alternative reasonable expectations out of hand.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 11, 2017, 08:31:48 PM
So how long does it take to recover brass. I can pick mine up in a matter of minutes. Lol.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 11, 2017, 08:43:10 PM
Every one of 100's at night?  I guess second shooter could have had a brass catcher, and teleportation, and invisibility cloak, and . . .

There are so many conspiracy theories out there, including a self proclaimed combat surgeon saying that the actual victims are actors.

At some point, these people are going to have to come to grips that the lack of compelling evidence, coupled with reasonable alternative interpretations, means that the conspiracy theories are more than likely just that.

I have spent more than my alotted time on conspiracy theories.  Thanks for the civil discussion.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 11, 2017, 08:51:50 PM
A lot of the radical theory's have been posted by liberal trolls trying to discredit any narrative other than the fbi.  To distract from people like me who just hear two guns.  Who hears a m240 bravo going off and knew it right away.  The truth will come to light. Is Fox News conspiracy based. Lol. Really do you believe the FBI would facilitate terrorist as described below? 


Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 11, 2017, 08:59:11 PM
Yeah, I am done.  Conservative Treehouse has a good 3D diagram of murderer's nest, FYI.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Pegasus on October 12, 2017, 10:36:51 AM
Promotion of Prescription Medication Has Led to Most MAJOR Mass Shootings

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/lefts-obsession-promotion-prescription-medication-leads-mass-shootings/
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 12, 2017, 02:17:15 PM
Promotion of Prescription Medication Has Led to Most MAJOR Mass Shootings

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/lefts-obsession-promotion-prescription-medication-leads-mass-shootings/

So you don't believe the Feds are more to blame for influencing and supplying in the previous examples fox had above.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: wapiti hunter2 on December 18, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
90 days to destroy them or turn them in.

The Trump administration on Tuesday banned the high-power gun attachments of the type used in last year’s Las Vegas shooting massacre of 58 people, giving the owners of “bump stocks” 90 days to turn in or destroy the devices and blocking owners from being able to register them.

Trump bans 'bump stocks' used in Las Vegas mass shooting
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-bumpstocks/trump-bans-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-mass-shooting-idUSKBN1OH1WW
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Special T on December 18, 2018, 01:52:01 PM
90 days to destroy them or turn them in.

The Trump administration on Tuesday banned the high-power gun attachments of the type used in last year’s Las Vegas shooting massacre of 58 people, giving the owners of “bump stocks” 90 days to turn in or destroy the devices and blocking owners from being able to register them.

Trump bans 'bump stocks' used in Las Vegas mass shooting
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-bumpstocks/trump-bans-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-mass-shooting-idUSKBN1OH1WW

I have no doubt Trump will catch some heat for this. I think him taking this stand is stupid for several reasons. Ive shot a bump stock and they are a novelty. The real sham is that bump stocks are still attributed to the Las Vegas shooting because of the convenient distraction they are to the real unanswered questions from that event.

I wonder how many folks will turn them in? Im not optimistic very many because there weren't a lot of semi autos registered when states required it.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Curly on December 18, 2018, 02:20:38 PM
Where is the proof that bump stocks were used in Vegas?  I find it sad when writers state it like a fact that bump stocks are to blame.
Title: Re: Bump Stocks
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 19, 2018, 12:03:42 AM
Where is the proof that bump stocks were used in Vegas?  I find it sad when writers state it like a fact that bump stocks are to blame.

:yeah:

I would be surprised if this withstands SCOTUS testing but the damage may already be done.  Trump is wrong here.

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