Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: wolfbait on October 15, 2017, 08:30:32 PM

Title: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: wolfbait on October 15, 2017, 08:30:32 PM
Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/oct/12/predator-proof-pens-last-ditch-effort-save-selkirk-caribou/
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Old Man8383 on October 16, 2017, 04:33:52 PM
Bringing in the last remnants of an endangered species population for protection is a daunting task.  It's been done before with other species with some success at saving the population.  I am sure there will challenges.   Hats off to the Kalispell tribe for stepping forward to take this job on and the USFWS funding.  But I do have some questions, who are or why aren't the sportsman/ conservation groups stepping forward to help?  We're "all in" this together.  Haven't we learned anything yet?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: JL on October 20, 2017, 05:57:21 PM
Old Man, I would go so far as to say I've spent more time in their habitat than most this year. I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to take a stance on the "predators," but will say the wolf population up there is far beyond what's been suggested, based on everything I've read and observed. Caribou are a herd animal. The herd is their protection. I don't think you can rebuild a depleted caribou herd when wolves are on them (in far greater numbers) like bees on honey. Based on what I've seen, the elk aren't hanging out in there either. They're basically sprinting through that area. I agree w/ your post completely and don't mean to come across the wrong way. Sure you're more knowledgeable than I am. I do have multiple trail cam photos of wolves from this fall I can share w/ the Tribe or sportsmen groups ...PM me.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: nwwanderer on October 21, 2017, 07:37:58 AM
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 21, 2017, 08:44:09 AM
Why isn't anyone suing the USFWS and state wildlife agencies for signing the death certificates of these animals by introducing an apex predator?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 21, 2017, 02:24:45 PM
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Humptulips on October 21, 2017, 05:24:59 PM
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on October 21, 2017, 05:41:01 PM
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Good luck on this, I hope it helps the herd, we are really close to losing a specie that is in serious peril. Glad to hear you are removing some of the wolves but as you said there are a lot of lion and bear in that country too, more of them than wolves! I'm extremely disappointed that WDFW hasn't tried to do more for these caribou when we are spending millions on wolves that were never endangered!
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on October 21, 2017, 05:42:18 PM
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.

They said USFWS funds, that is probably PR funds from sportsmen!  :tup:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: jackelope on October 21, 2017, 06:23:17 PM
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


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Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Humptulips on October 21, 2017, 09:37:23 PM
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on October 21, 2017, 10:36:47 PM
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.

hhhmmmm
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: nwwanderer on October 22, 2017, 07:09:25 AM
Having worked with an animal or two late in gestation, you can expect significant loss just from the handling.  Timing and release from just 18 acres will be tricky, good luck
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: buglebrush on October 22, 2017, 07:53:50 AM
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: jackelope on October 22, 2017, 08:40:55 AM
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


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Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: buglebrush on October 22, 2017, 01:53:19 PM
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.

The Caribou shed I found wasn't.   :twocents:

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Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Jpmiller on October 22, 2017, 04:51:30 PM
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Are there plans for augmentation?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 23, 2017, 07:31:23 AM
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's about 12 miles north of the border near Salmo BC.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Humptulips on October 23, 2017, 10:07:02 PM
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's about 12 miles north of the border near Salmo BC.

Are there two of these pens then? I saw pictures of one farther north. Perhaps that one is targeted at another herd?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 08, 2017, 12:22:51 PM
yes- actually there are three pens .  Two further north (Peace River area and Revelstoke) as well as the new one in the Selkirks.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 08, 2017, 12:39:08 PM
Too little, too late.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 08, 2017, 01:09:53 PM
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Special T on November 08, 2017, 01:29:59 PM
I agree. We need Arial gunning of wolves and coyotes!

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Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: X-Force on November 08, 2017, 02:22:20 PM
How was it determined that 19 acres are sufficient?

1 cow per enclosure?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 08, 2017, 02:24:25 PM
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.


Question for you : Why are the Conservation groups, CNW, so interested in saving the wolf than the Woodland Caribou ? Is it the money they earn from the taxpayers paying off lawsuits or threatened lawsuits ? There has to be a reason that is not being told to the public.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 08, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 08, 2017, 03:40:05 PM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.


I always wondered why nothing has ever been mentioned about the Caribou, for anyone. I think I asked you this question a couple years ago anyhow...Thanks
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: ribka on November 10, 2017, 08:43:35 AM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: mfswallace on November 10, 2017, 10:03:00 AM
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.

Real action would be wdfw pulling there heads out of the sand and quit placating the unrealistic " enviro/animal" groups to drastically reduce ALL predators with ALL options on the table. Pretty simple and easy to see to anyone with common sense imo
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 10, 2017, 11:08:19 AM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: ribka on November 10, 2017, 08:52:51 PM
Cnw has come out and publically opposed trapping and using dogs to hunt predators and control wolf populations that have decimated mule deer elk moose and caribou populations in Canada and thenUS.
That is an undisputed fact just like CNW is run by an anti hunting ecoterrorist.

Please provide proof CNW is not run by an anti hunting eco terrorist

The simple truth is CNW is run by an avowed and proud  eco terrorist who spiked trees that caused injuries to innocent loggersjust trying to make a living and feed their families

Some of cnw staff are anti hunting and want to end all hunting in the US and Canada

I can think of no reason to support cnw as a hunter

Now if you want to expand the exploding wolf populations and end deer elk moose hunting in the US and decimate caribou herds I would say support CNW

CNW has strong alliances with anti hunting oraganizations

Keep spreading lies but CNW is no supporter of hunting

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 11, 2017, 03:51:25 PM
Cnw has come out and publically opposed trapping and using dogs to hunt predators and control wolf populations that have decimated mule deer elk moose and caribou populations in Canada and thenUS.
That is an undisputed fact just like CNW is run by an anti hunting ecoterrorist.

Please provide proof CNW is not run by an anti hunting eco terrorist

The simple truth is CNW is run by an avowed and proud  eco terrorist who spiked trees that caused injuries to innocent loggersjust trying to make a living and feed their families

Some of cnw staff are anti hunting and want to end all hunting in the US and Canada

I can think of no reason to support cnw as a hunter

Now if you want to expand the exploding wolf populations and end deer elk moose hunting in the US and decimate caribou herds I would say support CNW

CNW has strong alliances with anti hunting oraganizations

Keep spreading lies but CNW is no supporter of hunting


What lies am I spreading?  CNW supported the wolf removal to save caribou, that is a well documented fact.  It's not up to me to provide proof that CNW is an ecoterror organization...YOU are the one making the claim and it's up to you to provide the proof, which you have none.  Mitch Friedman started off as a pretty hard core environmentalist, that's true.  Since then he's become more politically savvy and far more moderate.  In fact, he hunts and fishes every year (I know because I traded him elk meat for tuna). 

Which staff do you know that "wants to end all hunting in the US and Canada"?

BTW- this thread wasn't about CNW or hunting at all.  It started off about caribou recovery, which is lacking hunter support at this point. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: timberfaller on November 11, 2017, 04:55:39 PM
"It's not up to me to provide proof that CNW is an ecoterror organization...YOU are the one making the claim and it's up to you to provide the proof,"

It is if your posting "support" of said group or persons.

As far as Mitch F. is concerned YEP he became more "politically savvy" but he is still hard core!  YOU can thank him the next time you see him for the condition of the Loomis Forest, whats left of it, along with the rest of his crowd.

He is of the same caliber of person like the USFS employee who filed suit against the USFS for their "fire line" that was built near Lake Wenatchee in case the Wolverine Fire made it there.  Low and behold he was found out to be a former "trial lawyer" for the Sierra Club.   I'll let the sink if for a spell.   Trial Lawyer, gets hired as a "USFS" employee(big cut in pay)turns around and sues his "boss",  do you remember a group called "Green Peace"?  Study their "tactics"! :yike:  Its called, infiltrate, divide then conquer.   Still being used today!

Google's your friend!   Always research people's Bio's.  It takes time but you'll find out where, what and why they do the things they do and where they got indoctrinated.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Bushcraft on November 13, 2017, 07:54:36 PM
I was appointed to serve on WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council. Other than myself there are only a few people that buy hunting licenses, or fishing licenses for that matter, but I digress.  I would humbly and respectfully submit that the other license holders really don't seem to get out in the field and do a lot of hunting from the sounds of it during the conversations I've had with them.

Anyway, from time to time we are charged with reviewing various Species of Concern and providing the Director with our recommendations on whether to uplist, downlist or maintain a particular species.  Ours is simply a recommendation from a "diverse" body comprised of mostly non-game species interests.

Early on in my three year term we were asked to review three separate species, one of which was this particular subspecies of Woodland Caribou facing the grim reality of extirpation. We reviewed an extensive amount of material and presentations supplied by the Department.  Our findings indicated that all three required maintaining their endangered status, and rightly so.

This is where it gets interesting...

A formal letter was drafted by the Chair, one Fred Koontz, ex-overling at the Woodland Park Zoo.  For background purposes, Koontz is a progressive liberal Democrat and super duper good buddy of Conservation Northwest's own Mitch Friedman.  Koontz really, really, really wants to work with Penny Becker and others to "fundamentally transform' the Department, and do so quickly.

For each of the other two species a significant amount of verbiage was put into a draft letter that urged the Director to take various Short, Intermediate and Long-Term steps to try and improve these three species' listing status.

Well...almost all three.  In the case of the Woodland Caribou, the only recommendation was a long term solution to improve old growth forests (or some such).  Say what???

Myself and the incoming President of the Cattlemen's Association took issue with the obvious problem: The draft letter did not address or provide a solution to the near term problem that ALL of the research material we were given plainly pointed to...predators, specifically wolves, bears and to a lesser extent cougars.  This subspecies of Woodland Caribou was facing imminent extirpation from predators.

When he an I politely raised the issue and requested the draft letter to the Director be amended to include language for increased predator control to protect the last of these Caribou, we were summarily ignored or dismissed as being anti-wolf.  We then asked that the draft letter reflect that a minority of the group wanted to increase predator control they all balked.  When the two of us (out of 15 or so) politely raised a big enough stink about it, the Koontz simply stripped all the near term, mid-term and long-term recommendation language out of the letter and told the Director in essentially a one sentence paragraph to maintain the listing status of all the species.

Imagine that...a cherry picked group of people in WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council couldn't see fit to put the needs of a genuinely endangered species on the brink of extirpation (Woodland Caribou) above a species that isn't actually endangered (wolves).

And there you have it folks.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 13, 2017, 08:58:42 PM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: ribka on November 13, 2017, 09:28:04 PM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.

One of CNW's staff is s member of virulent ato hunting group

Howling for Wolves CNW and Friedman have close ties with the anti hunting group that has shut down hunting in many states called the sierra club

Amazing that someone on a hunting website support s an eco terrorist that is on record engaging in legislation that shut down hunting seasons

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 13, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
What does CNW have to do with the maternal pen or with caribou recovery? 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Jake Dogfish on November 13, 2017, 10:13:34 PM
How do you go about showing "proof that someone is not a eco-terrorist."?

Find info about there mining claims or oil holdings?  Seems like a difficult task.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: buglebrush on November 13, 2017, 11:04:09 PM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.

How about just opening season like in Idaho.  It's BS.  I have wolves in five different cameras in 113.  I found a Caribou shed 200 yards from one camera that gets wolves all summer. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 14, 2017, 06:54:57 AM
Thank God a friend of mine killed a wolf a couple years ago on the Idaho side of the Salmo.....when he was trapping.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: wolfbait on November 14, 2017, 06:56:30 AM
I was appointed to serve on WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council. Other than myself there are only a few people that buy hunting licenses, or fishing licenses for that matter, but I digress.  I would humbly and respectfully submit that the other license holders really don't seem to get out in the field and do a lot of hunting from the sounds of it during the conversations I've had with them.

Anyway, from time to time we are charged with reviewing various Species of Concern and providing the Director with our recommendations on whether to uplist, downlist or maintain a particular species.  Ours is simply a recommendation from a "diverse" body comprised of mostly non-game species interests.

Early on in my three year term we were asked to review three separate species, one of which was this particular subspecies of Woodland Caribou facing the grim reality of extirpation. We reviewed an extensive amount of material and presentations supplied by the Department.  Our findings indicated that all three required maintaining their endangered status, and rightly so.

This is where it gets interesting...

A formal letter was drafted by the Chair, one Fred Koontz, ex-overling at the Woodland Park Zoo.  For background purposes, Koontz is a progressive liberal Democrat and super duper good buddy of Conservation Northwest's own Mitch Friedman.  Koontz really, really, really wants to work with Penny Becker and others to "fundamentally transform' the Department, and do so quickly.

For each of the other two species a significant amount of verbiage was put into a draft letter that urged the Director to take various Short, Intermediate and Long-Term steps to try and improve these three species' listing status.

Well...almost all three.  In the case of the Woodland Caribou, the only recommendation was a long term solution to improve old growth forests (or some such).  Say what???

Myself and the incoming President of the Cattlemen's Association took issue with the obvious problem: The draft letter did not address or provide a solution to the near term problem that ALL of the research material we were given plainly pointed to...predators, specifically wolves, bears and to a lesser extent cougars.  This subspecies of Woodland Caribou was facing imminent extirpation from predators.

When he an I politely raised the issue and requested the draft letter to the Director be amended to include language for increased predator control to protect the last of these Caribou, we were summarily ignored or dismissed as being anti-wolf.  We then asked that the draft letter reflect that a minority of the group wanted to increase predator control they all balked.  When the two of us (out of 15 or so) politely raised a big enough stink about it, the Koontz simply stripped all the near term, mid-term and long-term recommendation language out of the letter and told the Director in essentially a one sentence paragraph to maintain the listing status of all the species.

Imagine that...a cherry picked group of people in WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council couldn't see fit to put the needs of a genuinely endangered species on the brink of extirpation (Woodland Caribou) above a species that isn't actually endangered (wolves).

And there you have it folks.

Thanks for sharing, Bushcraft :tup:.

I don't think what you wrote surprises too many people, the wolf is being used to further an agenda, any type of wolf control would set a precedence which in turn could be used for more wolf control in the future, not something that WDF&Wolves plus their fake environmental partners want.

The wolves are being used to end hunting and get livestock off public lands, once that is accomplished it will be easier to close these lands to the public.

The USFS are promoting the same agenda, through lack of wilderness trail maintenance and fire, closing roads, and fighting to restrict ATV's on forest roads etc..

And then there's the park service.

Caution advised on North Cascades grizzly bear plans

"The National Park Service has received 120,000 comments on its plan to reintroduce grizzly bears to North Cascades National Park."

http://www.capitalpress.com/Opinion/Editorials/20170512/caution-advised-on-north-cascades-grizzly-bear-plans


Restore the Grizzly Bear to the North Cascades

“Grizzly bears are highly intelligent, charismatic animals,” said Joe Scott, International Programs Director for Conservation Northwest”


https://www.npca.org/articles/1441-restore-the-grizzly-bear-to-the-north-cascades




Grizzly Bears

"Many factors affect grizzly bear populations: they require a large home range;there is increasingly little protected land available to them;their reproductive rate is very slow;and they are vulnerable to poaching and other human-caused mortality."

https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/nature/grizzly-bears.htm


Do grizzly bears belong in Washington state?

"In the U.S., the North Cascades feature more than 2.6 million acres of federally designated wilderness, including North Cascades National Park and surrounding wilderness areas. This region, known as the North Cascades Ecosystem (NCE), has the space and resources to support about 280 grizzlies, according to a 2016 report for the Skagit Environmental Endowment Commission.”

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/grizzly-bears-north-cascades


All one big happy family working together behind the scenes implementing their agendas in their quest to close public lands to the public. :twocents:

The wolf threw the baby out with the bath water. With very few ungulates left what will grizzly bears eat?




In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.  s:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 14, 2017, 07:14:32 AM
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.

How about just opening season like in Idaho.  It's BS.  I have wolves in five different cameras in 113.  I found a Caribou shed 200 yards from one camera that gets wolves all summer. 
That would be nice, but it's not in the cards yet.  Hunting/Trapping probably wouldn't be enough to control the wolves in that portion anyway.  It's very remote and no one would trap up there.  Even in Idaho, there are only a couple trappers and pretty much no one goes north of Hughes Meadows (~20+ mile sled trip each way). 

We're not in favor of a wide scale wolf removal, but we do want them removed from the caribou recovery area and that area maintained.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Special T on November 14, 2017, 08:12:05 AM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: jackelope on November 14, 2017, 08:19:04 AM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Special T on November 14, 2017, 08:30:08 AM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....
And how many wolves on the Colville rez do you think go unreported?  The wolf issue makes it much easier for me to understand the disdain tribes have of the state's laws. The fact that wolves are federally delisted in the NE make me dream of rouge Indians stacking up wolves.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Bushcraft on November 15, 2017, 09:51:26 AM
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....

Nailed it.  Next up...the Spokane tribe.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: boneaddict on November 15, 2017, 10:15:19 AM
Unfortunately the tribe(colville) though willing to act isnt acting fast or hard enough.   The wolves are starting to impact their herds hard. Im guessing theyll realize this maybe this fall when they do their counts.   Basically, nothing short of poision, is going to stop the wolves now. Im not wanting to make this thread about wolves though.  The Selkirks are a unique place and I hope these steps to help with recovery work, though I'm very skeptical .   Thank you for your efforts.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on November 16, 2017, 05:00:09 PM
I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/)

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/ (http://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/). Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 16, 2017, 05:14:47 PM
Looks like the eco-terrorist group, CNW, has made it clear, that they will only support wolf killing if their demands are met. Typical of these groups, instead of just, DO IT !!!!
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on November 17, 2017, 07:00:29 AM
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on November 17, 2017, 07:23:53 AM
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?

Before the wolf supporters can label me as "kill all the wolves" let me add, I think wolves are a pretty amazing creature, I would never want to see them wiped off the face of the earth. But, I am a realist, the reality is that wolves numbered 60,000 in North America before being introduced in the NRM states, they were never endangered, and they don't fit well in human populated areas thus the need for WDFW to remove problem wolves, wolves fit the best in wilderness and large parks.

Wyoming did it right, they held out for the right wolf plan, wolves are protected in 20% of the state that is wilderness and large park, wolves can be shot on sight in 80% of the state that is inhabited and is ranching country.

The actions of the wolf supporters speaks volumes to reinforce my previous comments. NE WA legislators have introduced legislation to share our wolves with west side counties but the wolfers don't want them. The wolfers don't want wolves in their neighborhood, they want wolves in our neighborhood, that is the moral to the whole wolf story! The urban wolfers want wolves in everyone else's neighborhood!

Before I get called out for name calling by using the term wolfer, I would point out that is the license plate of a leading wolf proponent, as far as I am aware it's a preferred name of pro wolf people.

My apologies to the OP for getting a little off topic. Getting back to that topic, I fully support doing whatever can be done to save these caribou, it would be a shame to let them vanish without trying to save them. Props to the OP and the tribe for their efforts. I am seriously discouraged and disgusted by the failure of WDFW to boldly address the decline of these truly endangered caribou while at the same time spending millions on wolves that are causing the problem and never were endangered.  :bash:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: ribka on November 17, 2017, 07:54:38 AM
Keep up with the name calling not surprised it is what you are paid to do but few on here are buying your propaganda.

As spokes person for anti hunting, pro wolf group CNW i know you are paid to spread propaganda. AND YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ON HERE MORE THAN ONCE with your false propaganda. CNW is on record and supported legislation to shut down hunting here in Washington and I have posted the proof and you failed to answer me. You always fail to answer direct questions on here by other members like the very basic question;"Does CNW support all forms of sport hunting?" You refused to answer this very basic question because your organization is a front. Your members are active in active hunting groups and you will not address this on here.

by here is the truth about CNW's founder Mitch Friedman a self admitted eco terrorist

In 1987, tree-spiking claimed its first known casualty: A California mill worker named George Anderson had his jaw shattered when a shard from a spiked tree, splintered by his band saw, ricocheted into his face. In response to the incident, Dave Foreman said: “It’s unfortunate this worker was injured and I wish him the best. But the real destruction and injury is being perpetrated by Louisiana-Pacific and the Forest Service in liquidating old-growth forests.” In 1988, EF member Mitch Friedman stated that “tree-spiking is not terrorism; it is a justifiably extreme and noble deed.” The real terrorism, Friedman said, was being committed by the logging industry. Reasoning from that premise, EF routinely advocated violence against members of the logging industry. As an article in the September 1989 edition of the Earth First! Journal stated: “The blood of timber executives is my natural drink, and the wail of dying forest supervisors is music to my ears.”

The above quote says it all about CNW and its true intent. Keep spreading lies but no one is believing them.


I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/)

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/ (http://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/). Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: ribka on November 17, 2017, 08:07:34 AM

Our culture is currently in a war battling organizations that are putting out fake news and propaganda to manipulate the attitudes in our culture.

Keep up with the name calling and not surprised it is what you are paid to do  as spokes man for CNW. And you have done it on other outdoor websites when someone points out the truth about CNW, its founder's history  and misinformation and contradictions and lies in the propaganda you spread.

As spokes person for anti hunting, pro wolf group CNW i know you are paid to spread propaganda. AND YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ON HERE MORE THAN ONCE with your false propaganda. CNW is on record and supported legislation to shut down hunting here in Washington and I have posted the proof and you failed to answer me. You always fail to answer direct questions on here by other members like the very basic question;"Does CNW support all forms of sport hunting?" You refused to answer this very basic question because your organization is a front. Your members are active in active hunting groups, CNW has close collaborations and activism with anti hunting groups like Sierra club which is posted on CNW facebook page  and you will not address this on here.

by here is the truth again about CNW's founder Mitch Friedman a self admitted eco terrorist and his true character

In 1987, tree-spiking claimed its first known casualty: A California mill worker named George Anderson had his jaw shattered when a shard from a spiked tree, splintered by his band saw, ricocheted into his face. In response to the incident, Dave Foreman said: “It’s unfortunate this worker was injured and I wish him the best. But the real destruction and injury is being perpetrated by Louisiana-Pacific and the Forest Service in liquidating old-growth forests.” In 1988, EF member Mitch Friedman stated that “tree-spiking is not terrorism; it is a justifiably extreme and noble deed.” The real terrorism, Friedman said, was being committed by the logging industry. Reasoning from that premise, EF routinely advocated violence against members of the logging industry. As an article in the September 1989 edition of the Earth First! Journal stated: “The blood of timber executives is my natural drink, and the wail of dying forest supervisors is music to my ears.”

The above quote says it all about CNW and its true intent. Keep spreading lies but no one is believing them.


I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/)

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/ (http://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/). Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: nwwanderer on December 04, 2017, 07:40:14 AM
Full of questions here.  Export/import papers secure?  All in Canada?  Expected death loss?  Transportation protocol?  Feed change and procedures researched?  Bunk breaking procedure?  Nutritional requirements met?  Catch and release timeline?  Some one here may know who to ask, WDFW not likely to have the answers
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on December 04, 2017, 08:00:50 AM
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: wolfbait on December 04, 2017, 09:52:58 AM
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN


I kind of think it is a CNW etc. wolf topic, after all it is the wolves that have pushed everything off the cliff, and  CNW, DoW and WDF&wolves have been in the wolf introduction business even before the illegal wolf introduction into the Yellowstone and Idaho of 1995-96.

How can you get to the truth if you try to hide all the facts?

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 04, 2017, 09:57:59 AM
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN

It is in the wolf board.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: wolfbait on December 04, 2017, 10:55:51 AM
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?

Reminds me of the Methow deer!

I think WDF&wolves were trying to do a deer count yesterday via helicopter, they spent a bit of time just counting the town deer.

I wonder if they will be honest or will they say the herd is in great shape for the amount of HABITAT available.

Great point BP,

Back to caribou........
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 04, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
Full of questions here.  Export/import papers secure?  All in Canada?  Expected death loss?  Transportation protocol?  Feed change and procedures researched?  Bunk breaking procedure?  Nutritional requirements met?  Catch and release timeline?  Some one here may know who to ask, WDFW not likely to have the answers
Good questions. 
No import or export papers needed.  The pen is in Canada and the caribou will be captured there and placed in the pen.  They will very likely be slung in with a helicopter.  We do not expect to lose any from capture, but that is always a possibility.  Obviously, we will mitigate risk everywhere we can.  The animals will be captured in early to mid march, fed lichen (supposedly they take to the feeders right away...?)  for the first week or so then weaned onto pelletized food, designed for caribou/reindeer.  They will be released when the calves are 6-9 weeks old, around mid july.  The release will depend on the insects, browse availability and health of the animals. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Jpmiller on December 05, 2017, 12:11:18 PM
What is the typical calf survival rate for the herd in the wild?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 06, 2017, 06:34:27 AM
Pretty low return lately, 15% or so.  But keep in mind that with such a small number every animal is a large proportion. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Jpmiller on December 06, 2017, 06:50:11 AM
That seems a very small number. I imagine at least 15% of the adult populations dies off every year. Hope these pens help turn it around.

Is the population large enough still to sustain without bringing more in?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 08, 2017, 11:24:44 AM
Why are these little critters having such a stink made about them in 2017 and nary a word years before is my question ?

Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 09, 2017, 02:23:30 PM
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Tbar on December 09, 2017, 03:01:00 PM
 What are the odds of recovery? Is it too little too late? Why not a captive breeding program or any action prior to such low numbers? Also why are the pens in Canada?
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: denali on December 09, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
help make people aware  https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=mountain%20caribou%20initiative
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 09, 2017, 09:00:46 PM
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action


I hope it works out Bart..
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 10, 2017, 06:27:41 PM
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action


I hope it works out Bart..
Thanks- It's a tough job for sure, hopefully we can get this herd headed back in the right direction.  It was on a positive growth pattern for several years before wolf recovery, we need to keep wolf numbers down and keep this herd on the landscape as the habitat continues to develop.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 10, 2017, 06:29:53 PM
Todays Spokesman Review.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/dec/03/volunteers-gather-lichen-to-help-save-critically-e/#/0
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 10, 2017, 07:30:26 PM
I sure hope they succeed in this huge undertaking.  :tup:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: denali on December 11, 2017, 12:38:31 PM
http://www.timescolonist.com/ontario-caribou-facing-wolf-attacks-to-be-moved-off-island-by-helicopter-1.23117174

Endangered caribou on an island in Lake Superior will be rounded up, blindfolded and placed inside a helicopter to travel to a new home early next year as the Ontario government tries to save them from a pack of wolves.

The complex relocation of the caribou from Michipicoten Island was announced by Ontario's minister of natural resources and forestry on Thursday, with the government noting that the animals are destined to join a small herd on another island where they'll roam free from predators.
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Troubles for the caribou began in the winter of 2013 when an ice bridge formed that allowed a small number of wolves to travel the 16 kilometres from the mainland to the island in northwestern Ontario, said ministry spokeswoman Jolanta Kowalski.

The ice bridge formed the following winter as well, and was considered a rare occurrence, Kowalski said.

Since then the wolves have systematically slaughtered the caribou to the point that the ministry is worried about the population's complete decimation.

"We're worried," Kowalski said. "The caribou numbers are down considerably."

A survey of the herd in 2011 showed 680 caribou on the island. Last year, there were only 120 caribou and about a dozen wolves.

Some of the caribou will be taken from Michipicoten Island to the Slate Islands, further north in Lake Superior, next year.

"We will be transporting a suitable portion of the caribou population to the Slate Islands to ensure the continued viability of this important species on an island free from predators," Natural Resources and Forestry Minister Kathryn McGarry said in a statement.

The ministry is working out the details, but said there are only about two to four bull caribou on Slate Islands. Kowalski said they're still figuring out how many caribou to bring over, but noted that they won't be moving the entire herd.

"We'll move enough that we can hopefully ensure the viability of the species on the Slate Islands," she said.

In a way the Michipicoten caribou will be returning home. In 1982, the ministry moved eight caribou from Slate Islands to Michipicoten Island and their population growth had long been considered a huge success, Kowalski said.

Historic records indicate there were caribou on the island in the early 1800s, Kowalski said, but they disappeared by the mid-1800s due to hunting.

The caribou getting a new home may be sedated for the move and are expected to have blindfolds and ear plugs to make them as comfortable as possible before they're placed on a large transport helicopter for the journey, Kowalski said.

The ministry is working with the Michipicoten First Nation to save the endangered animals, she added.

"Our hope is that the move goes well and the population survives," Kowalski said. "This is their best chance."
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Stein on December 11, 2017, 10:40:42 PM
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.

Sure, throw a hundred grand at it and give it a shot, we don't have a bunch to lose at this point.  Who knows, if it ends up working you may get a number that starts to have the odds slowly tip in their favor.  It's not like shooting all the predators is even physically possible let alone politically viable.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: buglebrush on December 12, 2017, 03:45:36 PM
Money down a rat hole if not coupled with extreme predator reduction.   :twocents:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: buglebrush on December 12, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
By the way did anyone else notice that Conservation Northwest is offering 10,000 to apprehend the person who killed two wolves in NE Washington?  What a bunch of idiots!   :bash:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: X-Force on December 12, 2017, 03:57:34 PM
Man I hope these pens work. A lot of effort is going into saving these guys.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 15, 2017, 06:46:13 AM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: bearpaw on December 20, 2017, 03:19:35 PM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:

I might be wrong, but I think the only reason anything is being done is because the Kalispell Tribe is making it happen? @WAcoyotehunter
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: nwwanderer on December 20, 2017, 04:28:31 PM
And Canada, been killing wolves to help woodlands for years
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 20, 2017, 07:07:25 PM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:

I might be wrong, but I think the only reason anything is being done is because the Kalispell Tribe is making it happen? @WAcoyotehunter




I'd say so. wacoyotehunter and I talked about this 3-4 years ago I think.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 21, 2017, 05:15:54 AM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:

I might be wrong, but I think the only reason anything is being done is because the Kalispell Tribe is making it happen? @WAcoyotehunter
It took quite some time, but we (Tribe) finally figured out that the agencies were not going to take action for caribou recovery.  We are pushing the effort as hard as we can now and the BC side is getting on board. 
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 21, 2017, 07:30:53 AM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:

Good on you, at least someone cares about them, WDFWOLVES could careless.

I might be wrong, but I think the only reason anything is being done is because the Kalispell Tribe is making it happen? @WAcoyotehunter
It took quite some time, but we (Tribe) finally figured out that the agencies were not going to take action for caribou recovery.  We are pushing the effort as hard as we can now and the BC side is getting on board.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on December 26, 2017, 08:08:14 PM
Dang it must be getting late I seriously thought "what does a caribou need a pen for?" For a moment! On second thought they would probably fare better writing their local elected officials  :tung:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: quadrafire on February 26, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/feb/26/last-stand-documentary-raises-money-for-endangered/
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 26, 2018, 12:24:58 PM
Why in the world didn't they try and save these animals when there was 100, 75 or even 50 left ? Why did the WDFW wait so long, because of wolves and only wolves. :bash:

I might be wrong, but I think the only reason anything is being done is because the Kalispell Tribe is making it happen? @WAcoyotehunter




I'd say so. wacoyotehunter and I talked about this 3-4 years ago I think.

There were many of us who talked about the woodland caribou during the wolf plan development process. They didn't care about the Selkirk caribou or about the smaller, indigenous wolves already living in WA and OR. These people only care about one animal at the expense of all others.
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 09, 2018, 01:52:50 AM
 :tup:
Title: Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
Post by: sjhgraysage on March 09, 2018, 09:14:24 AM
According to yesterdays Spokane paper, the caribou pens in Canada are not usable this winter because of to much snow. According to the article the positive of to much snow is that it will allow them to add more netting to increase the height of the pen for next year and there is so much snow the predators are supposedly down low out of the caribou winter range preying on deer and elk that winter lower than caribou.