Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Goshawk on April 16, 2018, 08:48:54 PM

Title: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Goshawk on April 16, 2018, 08:48:54 PM
I've been shooting and hunting since the 60's and have dropped a lot of game and almost always done the autopsy to see bullet performance.  I've gone back and forth over the years as different bullets types came and sometimes went, and would like to have this groups more vast experience than mine chime in.

The only time I've ever been let down by any bullet is when it comes apart or fragments after the impact cutting short it's mass and penetration.  Tough bullets like the old Speer Grand slams, Nosler Partitions and Barnes all copper are on one end of the "hell for stout" spectrum. This style of bullet has never let me down from heavy bone to even passing though a small tree before hitting the animal and still holding together enough for a good kill.

One of the things I have yet to figure out is the Berger line of bullets.  To me, they look like a varmint bullet, penetrating just a few inches before coming apart and fragmenting or as they say "grenading".  I suppose that's all and fine if every shot you have is perfect broad side where everything ends up in the lungs, but what about quartering forward shots, downhill or other less than ideal angles?  It seems to me like a bullet that shreds apart would be the last thing you would want in the chamber; yet Berger users are a loyal following to say the least.

The Berger line is the only line I've never used.  I'd like to hear from a few folks who have used them under less than ideal angles and bullet placement.  Do they stay together long enough to break an elk or bison leg bone?  Their own advertising talks about loosing 40 to 90% of their mass once in the animal.  To me that just sounds like fragmentation.

You're experiences please.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2018, 08:53:43 PM
I would NEVER use a Berger on elk or bison. No way. I've heard of people using them on elk. But I wouldn't trust them. I've shot a few deer and a bighorn sheep with Bergers out of my 270 Win. and they worked great. Even got exits twice on the sheep. I like them for their accuracy but I wouldn't trust them to penetrate an elk's shoulder.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Stein on April 16, 2018, 09:01:53 PM
I would NEVER use a Berger on elk or bison. No way. I've heard of people using them on elk. But I wouldn't trust them. I've shot a few deer and a bighorn sheep with Bergers out of my 270 Win. and they worked great. Even got exits twice on the sheep. I like them for their accuracy but I wouldn't trust them to penetrate an elk's shoulder.

 :yeah:

I have way too few chances at an elk to trust something that isn't 100% proven.  I shoot Barnes TSX just due to the all copper feature but would also shoot Partitions or even Core Lokt if I needed to.  Maybe in 20 years another bullet will be proven better but I will be very late to that party.  Way, way too many sad stories on the Berger coming apart on elk.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Bob33 on April 16, 2018, 09:02:41 PM
Other than monolithic bullets like Barnes, most bullets are designed to shed some of their weight. Nosler Partitions are designed to shed 30 to 35% of their weight. The intended benefit is secondary projectiles from the shed bullet pieces which can result in a quicker death.

I don't like the design of Berger bullets for hunting big game, but people that use them seem to swear by them.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2018, 09:05:40 PM
I have no issue at all shooting elk with a Berger... done it plenty of times.
Saw a 140 Berger smash a 330 bull at 980 yards last fall.  :twocents:
They work fine
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jdb on April 16, 2018, 09:15:21 PM
Bullblaster can I ask where the shot placement was?
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2018, 09:17:11 PM
Bullblaster can I ask where the shot placement was?
Broadside rear lungs and liver. It was behind the shoulder
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2018, 09:21:44 PM
Here is a pic that shows placement. It was coachcw bull from Colorado.
The second pic is a buck I killed at 677 yards with a 215 hybrid. Entrance side. Exit side was 2-3 inch hole.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Goshawk on April 16, 2018, 09:27:50 PM
That's a lot of distance to slow down back to mushrooming speed.  Easily 90% of every big game animal I shoot is under 200 yards, with 75- being the normal year to year range.

Perhaps that's a factor I'm missing.  Long range performance that puts the bullet back under fragmentation speed, vs a close in shot on a deep woods bull.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2018, 09:36:35 PM
That's a lot of distance to slow down back to mushrooming speed.  Easily 90% of every big game animal I shoot is under 200 yards, with 75- being the normal year to year range.

Perhaps that's a factor I'm missing.  Long range performance that puts the bullet back under fragmentation speed, vs a close in shot on a deep woods bull.
Yes, if I knew going in that I would have closer shots I wouldnít likely use the bergers. I havenít had them fail and cost me an animal, but things can get pretty ugly up close and high velocity. Unfortunately there isnít a bullet in my opinion that will do it all perfectly. Bergers work for my needs but I understand that not everyone wants the same as I do.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 16, 2018, 09:43:13 PM
I would stay away from them based on what you just said.
Long range slower velocity they do great close range fast velocity impacts. Have had very very poor results for me and family members. They blow up and do not get the penitration at high speed. My cousin shot a bull with 190 Berger multiple times from 200-50 yards 2 barley got any chunks of bullets into the organs. If it had been accubonds the first one would have probably laid him over. I shot a couple deer with them close was nasty and poor preformance. 300+ saw better results.

I have been dumping a lot of critters with the eldx. 15+ now since they come out. From 50-500 I have been super happy and Iím a pretty die hard accubond guy.
The accubond at your ranges and further if you not chasing a huge bc will be a great choice.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: duckmen1 on April 16, 2018, 09:54:13 PM
We have never shot an elk with them. We have shot 3 deer. 2 deer dropped in there tracks 1 went 10 yards or so. Shots were 25 to 175 yards broadside all behind the shoulder. Bullets shreaded most there weight. This is the result with the entry just under the skin on entrance side. So yeah when it comes to squaring up an elk shoulder I'd be leary.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Oh Mah on April 16, 2018, 10:45:22 PM
What chambering is this from?  :yeah:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: duckmen1 on April 17, 2018, 12:26:25 AM
That particular pic was from 168 grain bergers out of a 300 wsm going around 2950 to 3000 fps. Have had 270 win with 140s going 2900 with very similar results.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jasnt on April 17, 2018, 05:32:43 AM
I've never had a Berger fail to kill. I'm no shoulder puncher I'm more of a vitals guy.  Every game animal I've taken with them has been under 200 yards and many in bow range.  Unfortunately I've never had the oppertunity to shoot elk.  This bear I took at 150 yards. Bullet went in behind the her right shoulder and exited out her left neck just behind the jaw bone. Broke ribs on entrance and just before exit and still passed through. You could run following the blood trail which went 40 yards through thick hawthorns. Bullet was 105gr vld @2950ish

Taken many bear and deer with bergers both from 243 and 300 win mag.  If you must bust shoulders stick with your AB's. I'll stick to what works well for me
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: birddogdad on April 17, 2018, 06:53:42 AM
I have no issue at all shooting elk with a Berger... done it plenty of times.
Saw a 140 Berger smash a 330 bull at 980 yards last fall.  :twocents:
They work fine

Nothing but good with Berger, I too have several Bulls with them. 7mag and 168VLD's. There are 2 "types" of bullets from berger, they have a hunter and a target which from my understanding would be a hardness / expansion difference. By the way, the 2 bulls shot took less than 3 steps before dropping.. I love them! They are consistent and very dependable. Accuracy with my rifles is great. Working up a 338 Lapua load with the 300gr match tactical now for 2 friends.. have run them in my free bore wby 340's and they are great.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: trophyhunt on April 17, 2018, 07:05:13 AM
I've killed a lot of elk with my 190 gr, berger out of my .300 win mag.  Yes they do blow up but I've never lost an animal with them, I'm a vitals shooter but have shot them in the neck before.  They don't go far at all.  Plus the bullet does very well with long range shots.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 17, 2018, 07:23:33 AM

 have run them in my free bore wby 340's and they are great.

Not to derail berger thread but quick question - whats your load for the bee and the lapua with those 300 gr bergers  ?   thx.  Back to Berger success/failure stories........
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: b23 on April 17, 2018, 07:27:12 AM
It largely depends on which bullet theory you choose to follow.  If you believe bullets should mushroom and have maximum weight retention in order to best kill animals, Berger bullets are not for you.  But, if you believe wound channels do a better job of killing, then you will likely be happier with the thin jacketed Berger bullets.

I doubt I'd use Berger's if I was going on an African Safari but for most everything in North America, I would use Berger's.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 17, 2018, 07:44:16 AM
I've seen/shot approximately 30 animals give or take a few with bergers in various sizes.  Performance is always been devastating.  I've also seen/shot 10x that number with accubonds, eldx, barnes, partitions, interbonds, sst's, ballistic tips, core lokts,  interlocks, round nose, silver tips, flex tips, etc.  All performed.  A few failures, but always dead critters.  Currently on an eldx kick because they shoot good and are pretty cheap but performance isn't life changing.  For me bergers have always been flawless and easy to get shooting very accurately. 

Only line I won't shoot are Barnes.  Just don't see a point in shooting a bullet that fouls my barrel horribly and doesn't always expand.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: CaNINE on April 17, 2018, 08:42:09 AM
I use heavy for caliber Berger Bullets for all of my big game hunting. 140 VLD in my 6.5CM and 264WM, 215 Hybrid in the 300WSM and 230OTM in my 300 Ultra. Plenty of mass to penetrate and destroy vitals. I prefer a bullet that dumps all of its energy inside the animal. Regardless of range nothing has ever walked away.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 17, 2018, 08:53:30 AM
More pics.
First is a small bear I shot with a 215 hybrid at 80-90 yards so they will work and expand even in a small target at high velocity and pass through.

Second is a mule deer that a buddy shot last fall with my 6.5-284 and a 143 eld x.

Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jmscon on April 17, 2018, 10:16:32 AM
I have one question,
Are any of you using bergers noticing more meat needing to get tossed compared to a bullet that retains more of its weight?
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Bushcraft on April 17, 2018, 10:18:02 AM
Berger bullets have a following for many years with the long range precision crowd due to the fact that they tend to have higher than industry average B.C.'s.   Their use inevitably carried over to hunting.  I've used them for years as long range practice rounds.

I've observed friends using them to quickly drop and kill animals, but the lead grenade meat damage was horrendous in every single instance even at moderate ranges.

Same goes for any of the other lead grenade bullets out there.

No thanks!

I like no-mess, no-fuss, easy field cleaning, no lead or copper shrapnel contamination and maximum meat yield for my freezer.

Therefore, it's Barnes TTSX's for me all the way.

They are versatile in the sense that they just plain work at short range and on out to longer distances if velocity remains above 2,000 fps. (Barnes advertises 1,800 fps, but I add another 200 fps of insurance.)

They can be extremely accurate and have high enough B.C.'s to retain plenty of velocity and energy well beyond where 95% of the hunters have any business shooting deer/elk/bear (250-300 yards.)

Montana .308 Win. with 168 gr. TTSX's will stay above 2,000 out to approximately 350 yards.
Custom Tikka 300 WSM with same is good out to approximately 600 yards, environmental conditions depending.
Any farther and I'm going to put on the sneaky-sneak.  ;)

   
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Stein on April 17, 2018, 10:31:02 AM
I think the general consensus is that people chose Berger because of their long range accuracy, I haven't heard anyone say they think that bullet construction is optimal for elk.  It flies well and happens to work at some level from not great to awesome depending on the user's experience.

If Berger came out with some type of super tough, traditional elk bullet with the same flight, I don't think you would see a bunch of guys still using the current bullet.  I don't think there are many good bullet choices if you are looking at making a 1,000 yard shot and that is likely the best option.

I come at it from a perspective that 300 yards is a long poke, so I don't have to worry hardly at all about how the thing flies, any well known traditional elk bullet can be made to shoot accurate enough at that distance and will carry enough energy to be effective for good or less than optimal shots.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 17, 2018, 10:37:42 AM
I have one question,
Are any of you using bergers noticing more meat needing to get tossed compared to a bullet that retains more of its weight?
no.  If you hit a big hunk of meat (neck, shoulder, hind) stuff gets messy, regardless of bullet choice.  Unless it's a Barnes that fails to open.  Then there's minimal meat loss :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 17, 2018, 10:42:59 AM
Sticking with the 300 SMK just seems to have a better track record at ultra long range on elk from unbiased reports while not giving up much on ballistics and expands into a mushroom rather than exploding or penciling typically.  But if I got a berger to shoot significantly better I would switch.  Bullets less than 300 gr are a whole different animal - would go with a bonded there or Barnes if you don't mind the fouling. 
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: CaNINE on April 17, 2018, 11:24:47 AM
I have one question,
Are any of you using bergers noticing more meat needing to get tossed compared to a bullet that retains more of its weight?
no.  If you hit a big hunk of meat (neck, shoulder, hind) stuff gets messy, regardless of bullet choice.  Unless it's a Barnes that fails to open.  Then there's minimal meat loss :chuckle:

This is my experience too.  I've not experienced any more meat loss when using a Berger bullet then other projectiles.  My aim point is the lungs. 

The beauty is that we have so many excellent choices for different types of hunting bullets.  I always tell folks to find one that meets your needs, matches your hunting style and shoots well in your rifle - then hunt on!   
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 17, 2018, 12:08:45 PM
I'll keep shooting Bergers at game animals and I'll let folks know if I have a failure.  Hasn't happened yet but I haven't killed as many deer as some have with them.  Shots from 60-700 at deer have been clean fast kills.  Shots in the ribs don't damage meat.  If I start aiming for shoulders, I'll expect further damage.

Shot two deer with Barnes 100 grn .257 TTSX.  One penciled through at 60ish yards and another was less than impressive at about 90 yards on a quartering away shot.  Thankfully found the buck and put another in him.  Spent the rest of that year cleaning the gun I think  :chuckle:

Last fall, I shot a mule deer buck at a hair under 700 yards and impacted a little forward.  215 Berger Hybrid punched a baseball hole through both ball sockets and the front of the heart.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: yorketransport on April 17, 2018, 12:42:43 PM
I wouldnít hesitate to use a heavy for caliber Berger on anything up to elk as long as itís properly stabilized. After all the bullet testing I did last year Iím convinced that a lot of bullet ďfailuresĒ are the result of insufficient stability. If the bullet is under stabilized it tends to yaw on impact and reduce the amount of fluid that flows into the HP and forces the bullet to expand. You may end up with a bullet tumbling end over end through the animal and causing massive trauma. Or you could end up with the bullet penciling through doing minimal damage.

Iím not a big fan of the lead grenade you get from a lot of the targrt/VLD style hunting bullets. Iím a meat hunter at heart and I just donít like giving up any more usable meat than I have to, including rib meat. For lead core bullets, I like all of the bonded styles for that reason.

Iíve switched to solid coppers for all of my hunting guns and I havenít seen any significant fouling issues even with the Barnes TSX or TTSX. I do think that some of the Cutting Edge and Hammer bullets are worth looking at for longer range hunting
if youíre looking for accuracy and terminal performance without in a lead free bullet.


Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Goshawk on October 30, 2018, 10:13:55 AM
Thanks for the feedback all.
One item I still don't understand is the claim that Barnes foul barrels more than other copper bullets. Are the Barnes bullets made out of a different material than other copper jacketed bullets? If not, then with the same amount of surface bearing area why would they foul more?
Hope everyone has a great season out there!
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2018, 11:02:14 AM
All copper bullets lay down copper as they exit.  Whether you consider that a bad thing or not is up for debate.  I maybe powder clean my barrel once a year and never pull the copper out.


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Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 30, 2018, 11:11:40 AM
I shot barnes one year from a 7 mag and could only get 15-20 rounds before accuracy went to crap clean it and good again.

Back to topic I made another kill with my trusty 215 Berger on a large Whitetail buck this fall through the ribs, golfball size entry and exit vitals wrecked. 300 yard shot and deer took 3-4 steps and dropped. I shot a buck last weekend with a 260 grain partition right behind the shoulder at 130 yards and lost more meat from that one than my Berger kill.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
I'll never use Bergers again. I recently shot a mule deer in Wyoming at 50 yards. It was broadside, the .277 140 grain VLD went in right behind the shoulder, through both lungs, and that deer ran up over a hill, and nearly a half mile before I was able to catch up to it and finish it off. I've used them before and never had any issues, but from now on I'll be using Accubonds or Barnes in my 270 Win.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 30, 2018, 11:30:45 AM
Same experience with Barnes and cleaning with a .25-06 at moderate speeds.  Not really up for debate when it's a negative impact for accuracy within 20 rounds.  Never got through a box without needing to clean.

Only one Berger kill this year, a large black bear at 50-60 yards.  300WSM, 185 hunting VLD, 3000 FPS at muzzle.  High shoulder impact, no exit.  Devastating trauma to entire chest
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 11:42:12 AM
2 berger kills for me this year so far.  One buck was 340.  Bull went in mid rib cage and didnt exit.  Did what bergers do best on the vitals.  Second buck was 90 yards.  Behind the shoulder double lung.  Core exited.  Straight up jello lungs. Same 185 hunting vld as Jon out of my  300wsm but MV is 3110fps.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Taco280AI on October 30, 2018, 11:54:03 AM
For elk, the Barnes LRX.

Will never use Berger anything, ballistic tips, or similar. Have others used them successfully? Of course. But I'm not interested.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jasnt on October 30, 2018, 12:11:01 PM
One beget kill for me this year. 115gr vld at 675 yards
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 30, 2018, 12:27:46 PM
I'll never use Bergers again. I recently shot a mule deer in Wyoming at 50 yards. It was broadside, the .277 140 grain VLD went in right behind the shoulder, through both lungs, and that deer ran up over a hill, and nearly a half mile before I was able to catch up to it and finish it off. I've used them before and never had any issues, but from now on I'll be using Accubonds or Barnes in my 270 Win.

That's a mighty tough animal
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 12:39:05 PM
I'll never use Bergers again. I recently shot a mule deer in Wyoming at 50 yards. It was broadside, the .277 140 grain VLD went in right behind the shoulder, through both lungs, and that deer ran up over a hill, and nearly a half mile before I was able to catch up to it and finish it off. I've used them before and never had any issues, but from now on I'll be using Accubonds or Barnes in my 270 Win.

That's a mighty tough animal

Yep, I couldn't believe it. Never have I seen a deer run that far when shot perfectly through the lungs. It's a good thing I have a witness! At first I was just watching it run away, waiting for it to drop, as I could see the red spot right behind the shoulder where I had hit it. I never thought it needed to be shot again. The Bergers I have remaining will be used only for coyotes. Just don't trust them anymore. I loaded up some Accubonds for my deer hunt in 2 1/2 weeks. They're just a little less accurate in my rifle but I hope they're more effective at putting down a deer with the first shot.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 30, 2018, 12:48:47 PM
Did the bullet just not cause damage in the cavity? Or was the vitals tore up and for whatever reason it just kept on trucking? Did it exit?
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 12:51:02 PM
Did the bullet just not cause damage in the cavity? Or was the vitals tore up and for whatever reason it just kept on trucking? Did it exit?

Yes, it exited. My guess is it didn't expand at all. Did the gutless method so I don't know what the insides looked like. Even without expanding I don't understand how a deer can survive that. But that deer sure seemed perfectly fine until I got a second shot into it.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 30, 2018, 12:53:55 PM
Did the bullet just not cause damage in the cavity? Or was the vitals tore up and for whatever reason it just kept on trucking? Did it exit?

Yes, it exited. My guess is it didn't expand at all. Did the gutless method so I don't know what the insides looked like. Even without expanding I don't understand how a deer can survive that. But that deer sure seemed perfectly fine until I got a second shot into it.
Ya thatís crazy.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 12:56:19 PM
How in the world did curiosity not compel you to dissect that sucker!?!?! I've been intimately involved in 300+ rifle kills with  every caliber and bullet combination you can think of and I've never seen a double lung animal go more than a few hundred yards. As much as I despise gutting an animal there is no way after having one go half mile I wouldn't be tearing into that thing trying to figure out what went wrong :chuckle:

Edit: I've had one go a ways I'd just forgotten about it.  Summary in my following post.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 01:01:20 PM
Crazy stuff happens though. I shot a whitetail in Idaho once at a hundred yards 165 grain accubond.   bullet took the top of the heart off But that deer ran at a dead Sprint for 400 yards. That's not an estimated 400 that's an actual ranged 400 yards. He stopped to look back and just as I was ready to send another one his way he tipped over dead. Accubond did its job just for whatever reason he was able to get his wheels turning and made
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 01:04:46 PM
It got dark and I was in a hurry to get to town to get the meat on ice. This was in early September and it was hot.
Title: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on October 30, 2018, 01:05:37 PM
Iíve seen two bears killed at ranges of 511 and 657 with 195 Bergerís chambered in 28 Nosler.  Both were devastating, and neither bear went further then fifty yards.

The only issue Iíve ever heard of is if the tip gets bent closed, they wonít shrapnel at close ranges and act like a pencil.  That could have potentially been the issue with bobcats buck...

Iíll hopefully be smacking a whitetail here in a few weeks with the 195s, and Iíll take some pictures...

This was the exit wound at 657...


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Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 01:29:27 PM
It got dark and I was in a hurry to get to town to get the meat on ice. This was in early September and it was hot.
  I'm not going to lie bobcat I'm a little surprised by this. Swearing off something and doing it publicly without giving some due process to finding out what went wrong is out of character for you. 

For all you know that bullet went in and did exactly what it was supposed to  :dunno:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 01:48:42 PM
I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I've shot deer and antelope with them, and they worked fine. Oh, and a bighorn sheep.

What went wrong is that bullet did not work like it's supposed to. That's all I need to know. I've lost confidence in them. I was already of the opinion that Bergers aren't a good elk bullet. Now in my opinion they can't be trusted for smaller game either.

I've already got quite a few boxes of Accubonds, and I'm nearly out of Bergers, so it was an easy decision. I won't be buying any more Bergers.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: h20hunter on October 30, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
Confidence in the equipment cannot be overstated.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 01:53:06 PM
I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I've shot deer and antelope with them, and they worked fine. Oh, and a bighorn sheep.

What went wrong is that bullet did not work like it's supposed to. That's all I need to know. I've lost confidence in them. I was already of the opinion that Bergers aren't a good elk bullet. Now in my opinion they can't be trusted for smaller game either.

I've already got quite a few boxes of Accubonds, and I'm nearly out of Bergers, so it was an easy decision. I won't be buying any more Bergers.
but if you didnt open up the body cavity how do you know it didn't expand :dunno:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 01:53:54 PM
Cant go wrong with an accubond.  They are a great bullet
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2018, 01:55:25 PM
I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I've shot deer and antelope with them, and they worked fine. Oh, and a bighorn sheep.

What went wrong is that bullet did not work like it's supposed to. That's all I need to know. I've lost confidence in them. I was already of the opinion that Bergers aren't a good elk bullet. Now in my opinion they can't be trusted for smaller game either.

I've already got quite a few boxes of Accubonds, and I'm nearly out of Bergers, so it was an easy decision. I won't be buying any more Bergers.
but if you didnt open up the body cavity how do you know it didn't expand :dunno:

I believe I said it was only a guess. It didn't kill the deer with a double lung shot is all I know.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BreezyBear on October 30, 2018, 01:57:00 PM
From my personal experience Bergers are great for bears, big holes, lots of blood, not much or any tracking.  Now for elk, the bull I shot last year, no exit, lots of bullet fragments in the meat, however, no tracking though.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 30, 2018, 03:22:07 PM
I really wanted to get into them. However I saw and had to many problems with shooting game at close ranges under 200 yards and hitting anything but ribs was messy and the bullet fragmented and did not kill penetrate well. I have posted before how many bullets my cousin pumped into a bull all at 150 yards or less.

Now if I was sure all my kills would be 300 plus I would use them as they are a great long range bullet. High velocity close range impacts on shoulders and necks etc, they have failed for me and family more then I can count on my hands.

Accubonds or eldx for me. Great at all ranges within there expansion speed zone.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 03:48:14 PM
I just hope nobody tells all the animals I've seen killed under 200 yards with them that they are not effective because I think they'd be really pissed that they are dead :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 30, 2018, 04:52:28 PM
I just hope nobody tells all the animals I've seen killed under 200 yards with them that they are not effective because I think they'd be really pissed that they are dead :chuckle:

I wouldn't trust anyone who talks to animals anyways, they would have a screw loose and probably shoot a creedmoor :chuckle:

Oh I know they will kill shooting them through ribs at that range. Heavy bones they are flat not designed to act like a bonded bullet and will blow up the majority of the time and require follow up shots.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jdb on October 30, 2018, 05:05:14 PM
I love how passionate we can be about our bullets!!
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 30, 2018, 06:50:29 PM
You gotta hit em to kill.  Thats the only reason anyone uses Bergers. 
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Duckslayer89 on October 30, 2018, 07:10:18 PM
I killed a bear at 680 this year and a buck at 200. 200 yard kill on the deer was insanely devastating. The 680 anchored the bear hard. I really like them so far!
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jasnt on October 30, 2018, 07:12:00 PM
I shoot begets cause noslers are icky
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Crunchy on October 30, 2018, 08:00:32 PM
I love my bergers.  Not much of a rifle guy but have killed two deer, and three elk with them.  None of them made it more than 40 yards after the shot, and a couple of them dropped on the spot.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 30, 2018, 08:07:23 PM
I pretty much slum them all. So far nosler/Hornady/serria/ct/barnes have all killed animals in my guns this year alone. Still have Winchester and maybe even a old corelock might find its way into one of the critters I shoot this year. Berger is the only one I wont use anymore and If a guy wants to spend his earned money on them and they work for him all the more power to him.

I'm not brand loyal on bullets they all work. My personal guns accubonds and eldx are pretty much the choice now days. Plenty of critters die from match bullets not designed for hunting. RUN WHAT YA BRUNG  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2018, 08:25:57 PM
I just hope nobody tells all the animals I've seen killed under 200 yards with them that they are not effective because I think they'd be really pissed that they are dead :chuckle:

I wouldn't trust anyone who talks to animals anyways, they would have a screw loose and probably shoot a creedmoor :chuckle:

Oh I know they will kill shooting them through ribs at that range. Heavy bones they are flat not designed to act like a bonded bullet and will blow up the majority of the time and require follow up shots.
  I've had literally the exact opposite experience.  I can say with 100% certainty that neck, shoulder, vital, and everything in between that I've never seen a berger failure.  Cant say the same about barnes.  Nosler are all great.  Eldx dont excite me much on the performance scale.  To me they perform like a high bc ballistic tip
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Curly on October 30, 2018, 08:29:17 PM
The only issue Iíve ever heard of is if the tip gets bent closed, they wonít shrapnel at close ranges and act like a pencil.  That could have potentially been the issue with bobcats buck...

That's likely what happened. The entrance and exit hole were the same size. The bullet likely penciled right through.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: M_ray on October 30, 2018, 08:43:02 PM
It got dark and I was in a hurry to get to town to get the meat on ice. This was in early September and it was hot.
  I'm not going to lie bobcat I'm a little surprised by this. Swearing off something and doing it publicly without giving some due process to finding out what went wrong is out of character for you. 

For all you know that bullet went in and did exactly what it was supposed to  :dunno:

 :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: M_ray on October 30, 2018, 09:00:49 PM
I have had zero prob with Bergerís and no failures ..: shot deer from 75-500 and Tmikes wife took her elk at 300 yards (full frontal shot) with my 7mm and 168 Bergerís last month. My experience says if you hit them right then you could prob kill them with several types of bullets, If you donít hit them right youíre going to loose them regardless of bullet. I got them because at the time they had the highest BC of any out there and they are accurate. I have to admit Iím not in it for the meat only and if I have a 200Ēer in front of me I donít care how much meat is destroyed I only care that the horns hit the ground.  ;)
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: mountainman on October 30, 2018, 09:24:22 PM
Nice bear Jasnt👍
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 30, 2018, 09:38:07 PM
I just hope nobody tells all the animals I've seen killed under 200 yards with them that they are not effective because I think they'd be really pissed that they are dead :chuckle:

I wouldn't trust anyone who talks to animals anyways, they would have a screw loose and probably shoot a creedmoor :chuckle:

Oh I know they will kill shooting them through ribs at that range. Heavy bones they are flat not designed to act like a bonded bullet and will blow up the majority of the time and require follow up shots.
  I've had literally the exact opposite experience.  I can say with 100% certainty that neck, shoulder, vital, and everything in between that I've never seen a berger failure.  Cant say the same about barnes.  Nosler are all great.  Eldx dont excite me much on the performance scale.  To me they perform like a high bc ballistic tip

Yup as with most things results very. What ticks me off is I have put over a dz eldx into animals and havenít recovered one bullet!!! Would love to dig some out and see. At close range I see ballistic tip results and around 4-5 and plus they act more like a accubond.

At least your shooting Rad broadheads so I still have faith  :chuckle:

I even hacked up and modified a couple tikka mags and those things are expensive to make the bergers work they shot so good and long range stuff was great preformace. Was the close stuff that turned me off.

Barnes rifle bullets suck for me I have had failures with them as well. I only shoot them in muzzleloaders and handguns and they work great in them.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Kenaiwild on October 30, 2018, 10:03:22 PM
Shot a .300 WM with hand loaded 180 gr rem core loktís for ~ 20years.  Always put the animals down and bullets held together.  Been shooting 168 gr Berger vldís out of 7mm rem Mag for ~ 5/years and bullets mostly explode and put the animals down.  Some went farther than others and both depended on shot placement.  I will say the bergers seem to knock the legs out from under them.  I would not hesitate hunting elk with bergers.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bullfisher on October 30, 2018, 11:01:48 PM
I have read that several years ago, bergers QC on uniform meplats was not what it was today. A very small percentage of bullets would leave production with the hollow point completely closed or non existent at all. After tests resulting in near fmj performance, berger put more emphasis on the QC of the meplat. There is a tool out there for uniforming meplats but most guys just use a pin drill if they feel its necessary.
I suppose improper seating dies for non vld bullets could do the same and smash them closed.
I've never tested this theory myself but I assume the rare fmj like performance from them in the past, could suggest that it has some truth..  :twocents:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 04:23:04 AM
@carp, once again I've had very different results with the eldx.  I've gotten jacket/core separation on every single animal I've shot with the eldx.  Lot of copper jackets somewhere around here.  I personally dont care as like Mray stated, I want my bullet to get in there and really make a mess of things.  I like my vitals scrambled
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: kentrek on October 31, 2018, 04:53:24 AM
Here's a good video for you guys  :chuckle:


There will never be a perfect bullet for everyone
..compramise for confidence
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: jasnt on October 31, 2018, 05:21:17 AM
Nice bear Jasnt👍
thank you
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Curly on October 31, 2018, 08:41:06 AM
Here's a good thread over at Rokslide about Bergers. https://www.rokslide.com/forums/long-range-hunting/48965-berger-failures-real-8.html

About halfway through the thread there is a buddy of Mike's from Hells Canyon Armory telling of 4 failures he had where the bullet penciled thru.

Anyway, it's a long thread and has some very good info if anyone cares to take a look. Sounds like a good idea to check that the hole in the tips is opened up all the way to the lead.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 09:06:45 AM
That is Dioni.  He is a close friend and hunting partner.  I've seen those bullets first hand.  As someone else previously stated, they did have an issue with some clogged tips a half decade back or whatever.  Those bullets were all from the same box.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Bob33 on October 31, 2018, 09:09:30 AM
Itís tough to say that a bullet failed when a dead animal is retrieved. Itís also tough to say that a bullet failed when an animal isnít retrieved, because the shot placement may have been poor.

Iíve not used Bergers and probably never will. They appear to have a fair number of fans and detractors. I suspect thatís true of most bullets.

Iíve personally had good experience with Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. The current count is 53 dead animals recovered, with none lost or followed for an unreasonable distance.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
I've seen a lot of death over the years and in my experience, almost 100% of the time, the perfect shot ended up not being so perfect.  It was "right in the pocket" but ended up being low brisket, or too far back etc.  I had one this year during archery on my bull.  I'd of bet every penny in my savings account that it was a double lung.  Turns out it was too low and the arrow only got one lung.  Verified by dissection.

I switched to berger not because of other bullets shortcomings but do to all the spectacular kills I observed while helping others on hunts.  From point blank to WAY out there, they have been flawless in my observations. 

In the end, shoot what you want because nobody cares except you.  Just dont publicly discredit a company and their product if you haven't done your due diligence to confirm that it did in fact fail :twocents:

Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 31, 2018, 09:55:21 AM
There is a large amount of "perfect" shots that turn out to be marginal
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Curly on October 31, 2018, 10:01:30 AM
40 yards, broadside with a rest. Entrance and exit hole the same size, behind the shoulder in between ribs. Had to be smack middle of lungs, but with zero expansion. 

I don't see telling of a bad performance of a bullet as bashing a company.  If someone has a bad experience and doesn't want to use said bullets, they are free to do so and tell people about it if they wish.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 31, 2018, 10:27:29 AM
Thankfully hunting/shooting, and writing about it isn't my job, so due diligence isn't my concern. I found that statement quite humorous. 🙂

I like experimenting with lots of different bullets. I'm done with Bergers for now. For future hunts I've got Accubonds for my 270 Win., 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 185 grain Barnes TSX for my 338 Win. Mag., 178 grain Hornady ELD-X for the Weatherby 30/06.

I've also got a bunch of .308 Partitions (150 grain) and some .308 Sierra's (also 150 grain) to try in my Husqvarna 30/06.

I really do like the copper bullets though and if I had more time to work up loads I'd likely use nothing but Nosler E Tips and Barnes ttsx. The issue I've had is that it generally takes longer to find an accurate load with these bullets.

And speaking of accuracy, boy those ELD-X bullets REALLY have some potential. I've only loaded up a few so far but they are one of the most accurate bullets I've ever tried.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 10:29:41 AM
Gosh I dont seem to see where I was refer to you bobcat :dunno:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: bobcat on October 31, 2018, 10:31:35 AM
Maybe you werent. No worries.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 10:37:38 AM
Maybe you werent. No worries.
it wasnt.  It was a general observation I've made over the years.  Most "failures" were not in fact failures.  Of course it happens but more often then not its operator error.  And many folks wont follow up enough to determine what happened.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2018, 12:51:23 PM
@carp, once again I've had very different results with the eldx.  I've gotten jacket/core separation on every single animal I've shot with the eldx.  Lot of copper jackets somewhere around here.  I personally dont care as like Mray stated, I want my bullet to get in there and really make a mess of things.  I like my vitals scrambled

Its unreal that you can find the eldx bullet in every animal you shoot. I have not found one "from tiny black buck to elk and aoudad" in the dozens I have put into critters, amazing how much results very.

I agree making a mess inside is what we all want but the bullet has to get in there to do so. The bergers I have hit heavy bone with at close range did not get in and make a mess.

I respect your opinions as there is only a handful of guys shooting the amount of animals you and myself shoot each year. I have 5 this year and with some luck 8-9 will fall. 7 a year being my avg big game for the year. Plus the amounts of people you help and the people I help and guide. We see a lot of animal killed each year. However see very different results.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
I also would not call all of the berger issues I have seen and experienced failures. Bergers are flat not meant to be shot at close range high velocity into heavy bone and hold together. That is not there design and asking a bullet to do that, when it was not meant to isn't really a failure. Sure some will still do it and bullet weight and speed etc will play into those factors.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
I have not found any in tact bullets only jackets with the core or some combination of the two.  @Bullblaster helped me break down a Wyoming buck last year that stood there and soaked up 3 212gr out of my wsm.  We found 2 of the 3 jackets.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 31, 2018, 01:40:59 PM
I have not found any in tact bullets only jackets with the core or some combination of the two.  @Bullblaster helped me break down a Wyoming buck last year that stood there and soaked up 3 212gr out of my wsm.  We found 2 of the 3 jackets.
What range? 
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 31, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
I have not found any in tact bullets only jackets with the core or some combination of the two.  @Bullblaster helped me break down a Wyoming buck last year that stood there and soaked up 3 212gr out of my wsm.  We found 2 of the 3 jackets.
What range?
If I remember correctly it was around 300-340 yards or so.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: hunter399 on October 31, 2018, 02:11:03 PM
ACCUBONDS
Thats all I'm say in. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2018, 02:15:23 PM
Its great to hear that/get feedback as I have not found anything of any of mine. All I can do so far is look at the entrance exit and what is done to the vitals and bone. All of mine are in 6.5 and 7 between 3100-3300 fps. I haven't got to play with any of the 30 cal but I do have some for my 30-378 I have been wanting to test out.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 02:17:21 PM
I have not found any in tact bullets only jackets with the core or some combination of the two.  @Bullblaster helped me break down a Wyoming buck last year that stood there and soaked up 3 212gr out of my wsm.  We found 2 of the 3 jackets.
What range?
If I remember correctly it was around 300-340 yards or so.
yep 340 yards but shot it for 300. Also found a jacket on a cow elk at 100 yards and I pulled the jacket out of the Hide of a Colorado mule deer that I shot at 800 yards. The only kill that I had with that bullet that was one of those hot damn moments was an Idaho bull last year.  It was a very steep downhill angle and I took him between the shoulder blades. Flatout hot sauce Tim! It was snowing profusely and getting very dark very fast so there was no dissection on that one. Mike and I one trip that elk 6 miles cross country. We ended up getting cliffed out and had to spend the night with no gear. Added multiple points of argument about how much elk hunting is the worst thing ever :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 02:20:46 PM
Its great to hear that/get feedback as I have not found anything of any of mine. All I can do so far is look at the entrance exit and what is done to the vitals and bone. All of mine are in 6.5 and 7 between 3100-3300 fps. I haven't got to play with any of the 30 cal but I do have some for my 30-378 I have been wanting to test out.
all the jackets I've recovered have been from the 212gr in 30 cal.  Always in the hide on the opposite side. 
ACCUBONDS
Thats all I'm say in. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
  arguably the greatest bullet ever made so basically there's nothing to argue about so why talk about them :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on October 31, 2018, 02:25:11 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 31, 2018, 02:31:47 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only if itís inside 200 yards.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2018, 02:37:48 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only if itís inside 200 yards.


Correct but make sure you are ready for a follow up :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2018, 02:38:44 PM
Its great to hear that/get feedback as I have not found anything of any of mine. All I can do so far is look at the entrance exit and what is done to the vitals and bone. All of mine are in 6.5 and 7 between 3100-3300 fps. I haven't got to play with any of the 30 cal but I do have some for my 30-378 I have been wanting to test out.
all the jackets I've recovered have been from the 212gr in 30 cal.  Always in the hide on the opposite side. 
ACCUBONDS
Thats all I'm say in. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
  arguably the greatest bullet ever made so basically there's nothing to argue about so why talk about them :chuckle:

Yes agree don't derail us  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 31, 2018, 02:39:54 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only if itís inside 200 yards.
I did two weeks ago at 90 yards but with a 185gr at 3110fps.  Does that still count for science :dunno:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 31, 2018, 02:41:27 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wouldnít shoot it anywhere else with that flyswatter  :)
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on October 31, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wouldnít shoot it anywhere else with that flyswatter  :)

Anytime, anywhere old man!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 31, 2018, 02:54:01 PM
Should I shoot a deer next week in the shoulder with my 195 Bergerís for science?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Only if itís inside 200 yards.


Correct but make sure you are ready for a follow up :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: tlbradford on October 31, 2018, 03:25:35 PM
I can only speak on coyotes with Bergers and I didn't like them.  Too many runners.  That said I have had great luck with Vmax bullets on coyotes.  They seem to penetrate before fragmenting just the right amount.  I used to hunt mule deer and elk with 117 grain hollow points out of my .25-06.  I never had a deer take more than two steps.  Elk, no more than 10.  All shots were behind the shoulder, either broadside or quartering away.  The one exception to those kills was a Texas heart shot on a muley at 200 yards, and a head shot at 25 yards going away.  Both were jumped out of their beds.  The texas heart shot split the pelvis in two and dropped it.  A follow-up to the vitals was needed.
Title: Re: Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game
Post by: BULLBLASTER on October 31, 2018, 03:58:04 PM
Hereís a handful of recovered bullets, anyone care to take a guess as to what they are?
Go left to right, top to bottom.