Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Trapping => Topic started by: Humptulips on April 26, 2019, 09:15:16 PM

Title: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Humptulips on April 26, 2019, 09:15:16 PM
Spoke to a trapper today about this.
It would be best if you did not mention any dam removal. Specifically any mention in the justification section.

The Department will not issue a permit unless two standards are met.
1. There must be damage of some sort.
2. Alternative actions have been tried unsuccessfully.

Recently WDFW has been getting a lot of FOIA requests for Special Trapping permits. The animal rights groups are looking at all your permits. They are looking for any reason to cause problems, mostly with the Department.
This brings us back to beaver dams. It is illegal to remove a beaver dam without a Hydraulic Permit. I know nobody gets them but mentioning it is asking for further scrutiny by animal rights groups and they are looking for anything to throw a monkey wrench into trapping.
The WCO I spoke with today had a permit refused specifically because he mentioned dam removal as part of the justification. Nothing happened to him except he was warned.
Best to be aware any mention of dam removal will be frowned upon.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Machias on April 27, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
 :tup: :tup: :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Naches Sportsman on April 27, 2019, 08:46:17 PM
I guess common sense to keep your mouth shut about this topic isn't common these days :bash:

Can't the hippie fish kissing animal loving tree huggers see this post anyway?
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Pegasus on April 27, 2019, 09:19:45 PM
I had some adults dam up a creek section below my property years ago. I didn't think too much of it until it was causing my property to flood. I contacted the state and the state examined the dam but claimed I had waited too long for them to remove it. One night I decided to remove the dam myself and went down with a shovel and crowbar. I about died when the dam broke loose. The surge of water evidently triggered the monitors further on down the stream and the next morning a satellite truck appeared trying to figure out what had happened. Unfortunately the creek had already been silted so much and so the cattail vegetation plugged it back up within a few months and the property was destroyed. In hindsight I know those adults intentionally damaged the property to create a wetland and they succeeded and I don't believe they were working alone.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on October 15, 2019, 04:10:38 PM
I had my first permits rejected with mention of dam breaching on them (as a means of hazing).   I used to say dams where removed, but that was not accurate.  So with the warning note at the head of this thread I changed to breaching.  I considered this hazing.  Now hazing is in question for beaver, per the note below from WDFW. 

"it was observed that “hazing” was marked as a non-lethal method. This method is not usual or often practical for beaver, and therefore it will require further information about what sort of hazing was conducted, when, and what the result was.

I have also used den breaching (in the past said removal, but it was really breaching) as a method of hazing on my permit requests when applicable.  Wonder if that one will cause a rejection now too????

And FYI -they have updated the permit request form with a line looking for Acres???  There are no explanation of what the specifics are for what they are looking for - Acres of property? or my guess is the number of acres that are to be trapped...

 :bash: :bash: :bash:

Never a dull moment. 


 
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Humptulips on October 15, 2019, 08:01:36 PM
On the acres part they want approximate acreage of the property. They are only expecting your best estimate and will never check on it so take your best shot. This was put in because some timber companies are putting in permits asking for 3000 to 4000 animals on them. Of course they would never think of denying a permit for W. Just you little guys get questioned.
You might try hanging a bag of moth balls near the dam. Not sure how it would work but it should qualify as hazing. Call it noxious eviction fumes.
On another note I applied for a STP for coyotes and had my requested number cut in half but they hand out a permit to W for 3000 mountain beavers.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Turner89 on October 15, 2019, 08:50:34 PM
I've been having trouble getting permits for beaver lately. I even had to have the city write an email to a wildlife biologist telling them why they wanted the beaver removed. The biologist responded by telling the city to hire a beaver trapper. :chuckle:
 I forwarded that email along with my 2nd app. They finally issued the permit for 2ea beaver.  What a pain in the butt.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on October 15, 2019, 10:02:06 PM
Turner89, at least the tribes aren't sponsoring the relocation of beaver up to you neck of the woods like they were previously... oh, wait, never mind :bash: :bash: :bash:

Yeah, I have had them cut a renewal permit number in half too.   Mothballs and maybe coyote urine it is.  I will share my results
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 16, 2019, 05:52:09 AM
Your wrong Cylvertip they are sponsoring relocation of beaver in Turners neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: lewy on October 16, 2019, 06:00:41 AM
I have had my # request cut in half on every permit as well
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on October 16, 2019, 07:49:25 AM
Your wrong Cylvertip they are sponsoring relocation of beaver in Turners neck of the woods.
. Yeah - my poor attempt at a joke.   
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: JakeLand on October 16, 2019, 08:24:14 AM
Turner89, at least the tribes aren't sponsoring the relocation of beaver up to you neck of the woods like they were previously... oh, wait, never mind :bash: :bash: :bash:

Yeah, I have had them cut a renewal permit number in half too.   Mothballs and maybe coyote urine it is.  I will share my results
ya I caught a couple last year that had ear tags
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: wags on October 17, 2019, 09:44:09 PM
How about all trappers and NWCO folks just stop doing ANY fur bearer complaint trapping. It will be fun watching how the Department responds.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on October 18, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
My clients would be the ones that suffer. Some I have trapped for since before the ban was in place - AKA - before they were clients.
 

I resubmitted 5 permit requests yesterday. They were all approved today.   :tup:
Here is how I explained hazing under the Results/ Justification section of the permit:
 
"Hazing in the forms of:  physical harassment, the use of moth balls placed on dams as a chemical deterrent, as well as the use of coyote urine placed on runs has been ineffective in stopping damaging activity."

 Plagiarize away NWCO's.  8)
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Machias on October 21, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
Nice!!
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: one more on October 26, 2019, 02:43:44 PM
It seems like the same people who want the beaver dams left alone, are the same ones who are so worried about the killer whales getting enough salmon. They want the man-made dams that give us electricity and irrigation water  taken down so the salmon can go up river.  While I know of one dam that the beavers have built that stops the big salmon going up stream and the young salmon going down.  It will prevent fish travel even when the water floods because it is made mostly with thin sticks and canary reed grass that filters the water.  The eagles and coyotes get any salmon that try to pass.
 :twocents:
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on November 14, 2019, 11:13:46 AM
Bruce, any idea why they are limiting the number of animals authorized?  On the ones I recently submitted, I requested between 6 to 10 animals - 6 on some , 10 on others. They all came back with 2 authorized.  I'm dealing with good sized farms/ large tracks of land that have substantial damage.  There is no shortage of beaver on any of them.  I am back to these places every year due to the population increases since the trap laws changed.  Now it means I will be submitting far more permit requests to get the numbers covered that I need to get the situation under control.   Not to mention wasted effort in needing to disable traps when the "quota" is reached, then go reset for the next round on the next permit, only to get to do it all over again. :bash:
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: lewy on November 14, 2019, 11:48:26 AM
Bruce, any idea why they are limiting the number of animals authorized?  On the ones I recently submitted, I requested between 6 to 10 animals - 6 on some , 10 on others. They all came back with 2 authorized.  I'm dealing with good sized farms/ large tracks of land that have substantial damage.  There is no shortage of beaver on any of them.  I am back to these places every year due to the population increases since the trap laws changed.  Now it means I will be submitting far more permit requests to get the numbers covered that I need to get the situation under control.   Not to mention wasted effort in needing to disable traps when the "quota" is reached, then go reset for the next round on the next permit, only to get to do it all over again. :bash:

 :yeah:
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: JakeLand on November 14, 2019, 12:16:41 PM
It was way faster and easier when Ralph was overseeing the permits
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: huntingfool7 on November 14, 2019, 02:10:13 PM
When they deny permits now, they don't sign a name on the bottom of the email anymore.  I was recently denied a permit for problem coyotes causing problems with personal pets...two weeks later the house cat is gone. 
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: JakeLand on November 14, 2019, 04:56:39 PM
When they deny permits now, they don't sign a name on the bottom of the email anymore.  I was recently denied a permit for problem coyotes causing problems with personal pets...two weeks later the house cat is gone.
have the homeowners call and bitch it helped me secure permit for downtown Bellevue coyote job
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: huntingfool7 on November 15, 2019, 11:01:20 AM
When they deny permits now, they don't sign a name on the bottom of the email anymore.  I was recently denied a permit for problem coyotes causing problems with personal pets...two weeks later the house cat is gone.
have the homeowners call and bitch it helped me secure permit for downtown Bellevue coyote job

In the end, I'm primarily at fault.  I've missed twice with the .243 in the last month shooting from the window.  Getting my first pair of glasses in about a week.

It was my cat.  I'm beyond pissed and don't believe I would portray myself very well. 

In any case, it should be required and SOP to put your name on any correspondence coming from the department.  These people supposedly work for us.  The intentional lack of accountability is disturbing and it extends well beyond this subject. 

How many different WDFW agents are involved in nuisance permit applications?

Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Humptulips on November 15, 2019, 11:23:14 AM
When they deny permits now, they don't sign a name on the bottom of the email anymore.  I was recently denied a permit for problem coyotes causing problems with personal pets...two weeks later the house cat is gone.
have the homeowners call and bitch it helped me secure permit for downtown Bellevue coyote job

In the end, I'm primarily at fault.  I've missed twice with the .243 in the last month shooting from the window.  Getting my first pair of glasses in about a week.

It was my cat.  I'm beyond pissed and don't believe I would portray myself very well. 

In any case, it should be required and SOP to put your name on any correspondence coming from the department.  These people supposedly work for us.  The intentional lack of accountability is disturbing and it extends well beyond this subject. 

How many different WDFW agents are involved in nuisance permit applications?

Typically one, Cole Caldwell.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Humptulips on November 16, 2019, 09:24:32 AM
OK, I sent an e-mail to Cole about this asking why he is arbitrarily reducing the number requested on the permits. I also called but was unable to get anyone and my voicemails were not returned.
Cole denies he is doing this.

Here is where you guys come in. In the future when this happens send an e-mail complaining to Cole.Caldwell@dfw.wa.gov and to Dan.Brinson@dfw.wa.gov
Dan is Coles supervisor.
I advised him if there was not a reason attached to a reduction in the number requested on a permit application we would be doing this.
That may in itself stop this from happening but it is important for you to follow through with letters of complaint if it happens to you.
I would include the permit number, number requested, number approved and a reason you feel the number requested is appropriate.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Hannibal on November 16, 2019, 10:12:45 AM
I quit applying for permits. Everything is performed using a cage
 the comstock trap, although expensive, is as effective and sells itself in "sensitive" area and implies the do good feeling in the huggers hearts

Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on November 16, 2019, 01:53:38 PM
Thanks Bruce.  We will see how it goes.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Humptulips on November 18, 2019, 05:49:32 PM
I spoke with Dan Brinson today about this. It looks like Cole will not be doing this job soon so we will have someone new probably.
Dan admitted Cole got a little carried away. I expect in the future we will see less reductions in the number applied for and if there is there will be a good reason stated.
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: lewy on November 18, 2019, 06:10:30 PM
Cole was a by the booker. He was a bit ott
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Turner89 on November 18, 2019, 07:17:52 PM
Thanks for working on this Bruce. :tup:
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Cylvertip on November 19, 2019, 06:37:34 PM
So I submitted new requests that matched to my previous ones (that only had 2 animals authorized for each). 

Ralph shot me a note asking why I had submitted new requests vs asking for renewals?

Here is what I wrote back:     

"The previous permits only authorized 2 animals each.  They all requested 6 to 10 animals.  The authorized animals were fulfilled the night those traps were set on several of those.  One place was not set at all. Requesting  renewal for 1 or two animals most likely means that I will need another permitted immediately, and will again have to disarm traps, then go re-arm them with the next permitt.  It means more hassle for me and more paperwork for both of us. All of that is frankly a waste of time."

About an hour later I received my new permits with the beaver numbers I requested authorized. 

Thanks again Bruce!
Title: Re: Special trapping permits and dam removal
Post by: Turner89 on November 20, 2019, 08:33:42 PM
So I submitted new requests that matched to my previous ones (that only had 2 animals authorized for each). 

Ralph shot me a note asking why I had submitted new requests vs asking for renewals?

Here is what I wrote back:     

"The previous permits only authorized 2 animals each.  They all requested 6 to 10 animals.  The authorized animals were fulfilled the night those traps were set on several of those.  One place was not set at all. Requesting  renewal for 1 or two animals most likely means that I will need another permitted immediately, and will again have to disarm traps, then go re-arm them with the next permitt.  It means more hassle for me and more paperwork for both of us. All of that is frankly a waste of time."

About an hour later I received my new permits with the beaver numbers I requested authorized. 

Thanks again Bruce!
That's great news  :tup: