Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Wolves => Topic started by: huntndad on May 13, 2019, 09:27:06 PM

Title: Info for research paper
Post by: huntndad on May 13, 2019, 09:27:06 PM
Hi,
My daughter is writing a paper on the reintroduction of wolves for a college (running start) class.  She has found a ton of information from the pro-wolf side, but not much that shows the negative side of this debate.  It's getting very frustrating for me because I'm trying to let her see the light on her own.  Unfortunately, the pro-wolf side dominates everything she reads, and she still just sees wolves as cute little puppies.  I need to find more data or research showing the negative impact of wolves.  We've gained a lot from reading the information on this site and the links provided.  Can  anyone point us to any specific studies, or links, or papers, or books that would help her? Thanks.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Tbar on May 13, 2019, 09:35:26 PM
Yellowstone?
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: mfswallace on May 13, 2019, 09:45:55 PM
https://www.outdoorhub.com/opinions/2013/08/14/the-future-of-north-american-wolves-interview-with-dr-valerius-geist/

https://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/Dr%20Geist/When%20ignorance%20is%20bliss.html

https://www.tsln.com/news/wyoming-elk-and-moose-population-in-decline-hunting-wolves-identified-as-causes/


http://davemech.org/

http://www.therealwolf.com/about

http://wolfeducationinternational.com/

https://landandwaterusa.com/JimBeers/2015-JBeers/8-24How-Bureaucrats-Anarchists-and-Communists-Use-Wolves-To-Establish-Tyranny.htm

Anything from Valerius Geist or Jim Beers
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Wazntme on May 14, 2019, 03:40:28 AM
There’s a guy on YouTube that does videos about this exact situation, his name is Steve isdahl, he is howtohunt.com as well. But he is a wealth of info
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: bearpaw on May 14, 2019, 04:34:03 AM
Hi,
My daughter is writing a paper on the reintroduction of wolves for a college (running start) class.  She has found a ton of information from the pro-wolf side, but not much that shows the negative side of this debate.  It's getting very frustrating for me because I'm trying to let her see the light on her own.  Unfortunately, the pro-wolf side dominates everything she reads, and she still just sees wolves as cute little puppies.  I need to find more data or research showing the negative impact of wolves.  We've gained a lot from reading the information on this site and the links provided.  Can  anyone point us to any specific studies, or links, or papers, or books that would help her? Thanks.

This page is a compilation of news stories and information showing impacts of wolves. Sorry, I haven't updated it for several years so nothing is recent, and some links no longer work, but there is a ton of info. I'll probably take it offline in a couple more years but it's still online for now.

http://graywolfnews.com/
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: nwwanderer on May 14, 2019, 05:51:58 AM
Explore the F4WM site and the Rangeland Commission, Life on the Range, information.  Also, livestock studies from Idaho and Montana on wolf costs are available.  An interview with the Dashiels, livestock producers, would be of value.  PM me if needed.  Great start, keep running!!!!
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: huntndad on May 14, 2019, 07:36:23 AM
Wow! Thanks for all the quick replies.  I knew there had to be a lot of info out there.
 
Yellowstone?
Her paper is about wolf reintroduction in general, but will focus mostly on Yellowstone.  Would love for her to write specifically about Washington, but information is limited. 

Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 14, 2019, 09:17:59 AM
This book is full of data, scientific info, footnotes, etc. There are different contributors to each chapter, most of them wildlife biologists.

https://www.giftcorral.com/products/the-real-wolf-by-ted-b-lyon-will-n-graves?variant=782786396180&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyp-K07Wb4gIVVB-tBh0JwgDJEAQYAiABEgKFYfD_BwE
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Huntin Hounds on May 14, 2019, 03:03:38 PM
The Idaho fish and game website has a section with wildlife reports. She should be able to find an annual report for wolves up until 2016 I believe. She could read those and the ungulate reports for the same areas that take place every 3 years and see what effects the wolf population had on the ungulates as they spread throughout the state. Be careful reading too much into pro and anti wolf sites. There tends to be a lot of fluff both ways that is just not true.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Yelper Guy on May 14, 2019, 03:09:36 PM
WDFW also has a nuisance reporting section.
Some interesting reports to look at.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: idaho guy on May 14, 2019, 03:10:28 PM
Yellowstone?

Also in Idaho the frank church ,salmon, selway wilderness areas. Have her do her own research not by reading opinions (which will usually somehow blame habitat) but just looking at when and where wolves were introduced and the elk population in the next ten years. The light bulb should come on quickly. Clearwater of Idaho also
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: idahohuntr on May 14, 2019, 07:39:10 PM
Be careful reading too much into pro and anti wolf sites. There tends to be a lot of fluff both ways that is just not true.
:yeah:
The passion and emotion around wolves provides an immense amount of ignorant and baseless internet garbage.  Your best resources will be peer reviewed scientific reports and analyses. 
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 14, 2019, 07:47:30 PM
Have her listen to that video of the ex state rep from MT. He breaks it down very well.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: nwwanderer on May 14, 2019, 08:09:23 PM
More, Save Western Wildlife and Jim Beers for a look at the economics of wolves.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: dreamunelk on May 14, 2019, 08:14:43 PM
She should have access to several search engines through the college.
What is her intended major or what class is this for?  The reason I am asking is if science related one of the first things they tend to teach is how to do a scientific literature search.  If English or other they tend to let them use whatever they find. 

Here are a couple of sources for literature.  May have to search through a lot or try different search terms.
https://bioone.org/search?term=wolves (https://bioone.org/search?term=wolves)
https://www.plos.org/search?q=wolves (https://www.plos.org/search?q=wolves)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/)

There are a couple of papers out of Montana that discuss changes in herds.  Some were not wolves, some where.  Also one that discusses the "Hit them Fast, Hit them Hard" approach to dealing with conflict.  Trying to find.

As Tbar suggested there is some good info from Yellowstone.  Important to consider that this is ongoing.  Know one knows what will happen over the long term.  There is a bit of irony in the what they learned about lack of beavers. 


Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: dreamunelk on May 14, 2019, 08:27:33 PM
Be careful reading too much into pro and anti wolf sites. There tends to be a lot of fluff both ways that is just not true.
:yeah:
The passion and emotion around wolves provides an immense amount of ignorant and baseless internet garbage.  Your best resources will be peer reviewed scientific reports and analyses.

 :yeah: :yeah:

Depending on the class she could end up with a bad grade using the wrong sources.  I can remember a professor going into a tirade over students using bad sources.  It was funny.  Most were the save the planet types who thought they new the answers.  A couple were ones who used sources such as some mentioned on here.  Several students dropped the class after that.  I know of several who didn't finish college.

I do want to say congrats.  I think the running start program is great.  Been very impressed with some of the kids that make it through.  I know of one young lady who just got her Phd who stated that if it was not for running start she would have been on drugs and pregnant before she graduated high school.  She had to fight with her parents to attend and paid her own way through many years of college.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 14, 2019, 08:30:27 PM
I'd probably avoid anything Bechetta and Ripple, all their stuff is pro wolf slant.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on May 15, 2019, 12:44:46 AM
Be careful reading too much into pro and anti wolf sites. There tends to be a lot of fluff both ways that is just not true.
:yeah:
The passion and emotion around wolves provides an immense amount of ignorant and baseless internet garbage.  Your best resources will be peer reviewed scientific reports and analyses.

 :yeah: :yeah:

Depending on the class she could end up with a bad grade using the wrong sources.  I can remember a professor going into a tirade over students using bad sources.  It was funny.  Most were the save the planet types who thought they new the answers.  A couple were ones who used sources such as some mentioned on here.  Several students dropped the class after that.  I know of several who didn't finish college.

I do want to say congrats.  I think the running start program is great.  Been very impressed with some of the kids that make it through.  I know of one young lady who just got her Phd who stated that if it was not for running start she would have been on drugs and pregnant before she graduated high school.  She had to fight with her parents to attend and paid her own way through many years of college.

👍
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: huntndad on May 15, 2019, 06:46:30 AM
Thanks again for the overwhelming assistance.  She should be able to find plenty of quality recourses now.  The paper is just for an English 102 class, but she does have access to a national data base of articles and papers through her library, which we have spent hours searching through.  It is just very surprising, and a little disappointing, that almost everything we found discusses the positive impact of wolves, even in the scholarly articles. 

We'll spend our weekend looking into all the recourses you all suggested.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: dreamunelk on May 15, 2019, 07:02:13 AM
Don't look for the smoking gun. There is nothing that supports eradication of predators.  There is a lot that supports management.  You really have to read the paper.  Often in the discussion you will find some tidbits.  One thing I do when reading an article in a magazine that states a source is to go find the source, if peer reviewed, and read. 
Have her check and see if the college has an institution subscription to the Journal of Wildlife Management.  Be prepared.  There is a lot of reading to do.
Don't just limit research to wolves. 
Title: Re: Info for research paper
Post by: bearpaw on May 16, 2019, 01:55:26 PM
There is a lot of bogus info out there including peer reviewed papers. To many of the bio's and managers have agendas, a good example of what I'm talking about is the fact that the former director of the USFWS is now running one of the top wolf loving anti-hunting organizations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Rappaport_Clark

Pittman Robertson funds were illegally used for wolf introduction rather than being given back to states as it's earmarked.

Another good example is the Washington wolf plan, they ignored taking care of the caribou which are now extinct in large part due to lack of managing wolves. They also ignored known impacts on ungulates in other states when developing the plan. Yes, I've read every page of it in the past.