Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Hot Lunch on December 07, 2019, 11:44:28 AM

Title: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Hot Lunch on December 07, 2019, 11:44:28 AM
L
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: KFhunter on December 07, 2019, 12:00:31 PM
Ran into a suspicious situation. Two hunters one carrying a muzzle loader and one carrying a modern rifle hunting together. I'm not going to go into specifics as a game warden was called to look into what happened. My question to the forum, is this legal? The only open season for deer in this unit for muzzie, the modern carrying hunter claimed he was coyote hunting.

It's perfectly legal to coyote hunt during muzzle loader season, and bear too, and lions, and possibly it was open to a special hunt too. 

Nor is there any rules stating that you must stay "100 yards" from anyone hunting with a muzzle loader  :chuckle:


Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: oldschool on December 07, 2019, 12:21:26 PM
 The partner with the modern firearm is so they can scope th
e nosey hunters
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: kselkhunter on December 07, 2019, 12:53:47 PM
Yes it's legal.  Some of us go out hunting specifically for predators regardless of what other seasons are open. 


Unless I'm hunting an alternate weapon season, I always have a rifle on me in the woods.  Even if I'm just joining friends on their hunt.   Every year I join my buddies on their archery hunts to enjoy spending time with my friends and I always pack my rifle, in case I can fill a bear or cougar tag or reduce the coyote population.     
   

Don't assume somebody is breaking the law because they're packing a rifle....


Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2019, 01:01:41 PM
There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: kselkhunter on December 07, 2019, 01:07:05 PM
There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)

Unless you're hunting bear, cougar, turkey, or mountain sheep/goat..... (although the turkey inclusion is amusing as you can't hunt turkey with 24 or larger caliber or buckshot/slugs.....)

(a) This subsection does not apply to people hunting bear, cougar, mountain goat, mountain sheep, or turkey.

Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Jellymon on December 07, 2019, 01:21:21 PM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: duckmen1 on December 07, 2019, 01:34:30 PM
So guilty of carrying a firearm in the woods. I guess we are all poachers.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: zwickeyman on December 07, 2019, 03:04:45 PM
Without the regs in front of me. Im pretty sure you cant carry a centerfire of a caliber of 24 or higher during any late archery or muzzy season. Which is why I coyote hunt with a 22-250.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2019, 03:18:11 PM
Without the regs in front of me. Im pretty sure you cant carry a centerfire of a caliber of 24 or higher during any late archery or muzzy season. Which is why I coyote hunt with a 22-250.
That condition only applies to modern firearm deer or elk seasons.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: MADMAX on December 07, 2019, 03:24:50 PM
Someone will eventually blame Trump
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: jackelope on December 07, 2019, 03:39:03 PM
Without the regs in front of me. Im pretty sure you cant carry a centerfire of a caliber of 24 or higher during any late archery or muzzy season. Which is why I coyote hunt with a 22-250.

Inaccurate info.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 07, 2019, 03:39:15 PM
There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)

And itís a dumb law. :twocents:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: jackelope on December 07, 2019, 03:39:25 PM
So why was the game warden called?
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 07, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
Just because you see a person carrying a rifle while hunting with another person doesn't make them a criminal.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Hot Lunch on December 07, 2019, 03:58:16 PM
Shooting at deer with an AR-15 is why the game warden was called.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: duckmen1 on December 07, 2019, 03:59:00 PM
There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)

And itís a dumb law. :twocents:

And the rest of the law isn't posted. But as another post listed shows the rest of the law.  If one has a valid cougar tag you can carry whatever legal cougar caliber you want. Such as if I wanted to carry a 30 06 during late archery/ muzzy/ or modern firearm for the chance of shooting a cougar while my buddy is deer hunting I'm perfectly legal.
Mall cops are out and about.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: duckmen1 on December 07, 2019, 04:00:48 PM
Shooting at deer with an AR-15 is why the game warden was called.

Why wasn't that posted in the start? That would clarify the intent of poaching. As the details were originally published showed no intent of any broken law.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Hot Lunch on December 07, 2019, 04:02:25 PM
I was under the impression while hunting with a bow or muzzleloader only a pistol could be carried. Muzzle loader hunting for deer with another person who is "hunting coyotes" with a modern rifle just sounds shady and was from what I saw.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: ghosthunter on December 07, 2019, 04:37:59 PM
You can hike all over the woods with any firearm you want. There is no restriction on self defense Firearms. Rifle or pistol can be used for self defense, or target practice.

Now if you see someone  actually shooting at a animal thatís different.

So which is it ? Was the guy shooting at a animal.?
Or just walking along with his buddy?
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: bobcat on December 07, 2019, 04:50:34 PM
I was under the impression while hunting with a bow or muzzleloader only a pistol could be carried. Muzzle loader hunting for deer with another person who is "hunting coyotes" with a modern rifle just sounds shady and was from what I saw.

I think that's true for archery hunting, but not muzzleloader. Either way, a person who is with an archery or muzzleloader hunter, can carry any kind of firearm they want.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on December 07, 2019, 06:18:35 PM
BTW bear season closed Nov. 15th...
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: BLH69 on December 07, 2019, 06:28:13 PM
Shooting at deer with an AR-15 is why the game warden was called.

Why wasn't that posted in the start? That would clarify the intent of poaching. As the details were originally published showed no intent of any broken law.
  :yeah:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: dilleytech on December 07, 2019, 06:44:38 PM
Shooting at deer with an AR-15 is why the game warden was called.

How do you know it was a AR-15 and not a AR-10? Or did I miss something?
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: ibuyre on December 07, 2019, 06:46:49 PM
Raises hand.... It wasn't me.... But I hunt with a ar-15 that I built in a cal that makes it legal for deer. I also am new to hunting, like 4-5 years... but I am in my 40's and I have spent my whole life wondering around the woods and I always carry a weapon.... When I was younger it was a sks then a ak then a ar..... I don't trust people, seen to much sketchy crap.  I have been stopped a couple times while carrying something, and I wasn't hunting and didn't have a lic or any tags..... normally just a long talk with the game warden. You can take your rifle for a walk in the woods.... It's ok...
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: full choke on December 07, 2019, 07:36:30 PM
Shooting at deer with an AR-15 is why the game warden was called.

How do you know it was a AR-15 and not a AR-10? Or did I miss something?

Doesn't matter. There was no open season for modern firearms open- only muzzleloader. At least according to the OP.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: JL on December 07, 2019, 07:52:04 PM
Quote
Why wasn't that posted in the start? That would clarify the intent of poaching. As the details were originally published showed no intent of any broken law.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: hunter399 on December 07, 2019, 08:40:10 PM
Raises hand.... It wasn't me.... But I hunt with a ar-15 that I built in a cal that makes it legal for deer. I also am new to hunting, like 4-5 years... but I am in my 40's and I have spent my whole life wondering around the woods and I always carry a weapon.... When I was younger it was a sks then a ak then a ar..... I don't trust people, seen to much sketchy crap.  I have been stopped a couple times while carrying something, and I wasn't hunting and didn't have a lic or any tags..... normally just a long talk with the game warden. You can take your rifle for a walk in the woods.... It's ok...
Same here also to include ar10 this year.

Unless you actually seen said person shoot a deer.shady or not perfectly legal ,To hunt coyotes year round.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: follow maggie on December 07, 2019, 08:53:36 PM
Without the regs in front of me. Im pretty sure you cant carry a centerfire of a caliber of 24 or higher during any late archery or muzzy season. Which is why I coyote hunt with a 22-250.

100% false
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: zwickeyman on December 07, 2019, 09:34:12 PM
Thanks for letting me know Iím a dumb ass everyone😁
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Dan-o on December 07, 2019, 09:42:08 PM
Thanks for letting me know Iím a dumb ass everyone😁

LOL     :tup:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: BigVinn on December 10, 2019, 09:26:05 PM
So I saw this on the addendums page.

Page 87 (added April 29)
Under the heading, Muzzleloader Regulations, section 2(e), the second sentence should read as follows: ďIt is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession a modern firearm while in the field muzzleloader hunting, during a muzzleloader season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection

Did they change the rule or am I reading this wrong?
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Platensek-po on December 10, 2019, 09:31:12 PM
So I saw this on the addendums page.

Page 87 (added April 29)
Under the heading, Muzzleloader Regulations, section 2(e), the second sentence should read as follows: ďIt is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession a modern firearm while in the field muzzleloader hunting, during a muzzleloader season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection

Did they change the rule or am I reading this wrong?

That may be true but the guy carrying the rifle is not hunting with a muzzle loader.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: BigVinn on December 10, 2019, 09:44:04 PM
So I saw this on the addendums page.

Page 87 (added April 29)
Under the heading, Muzzleloader Regulations, section 2(e), the second sentence should read as follows: ďIt is unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession a modern firearm while in the field muzzleloader hunting, during a muzzleloader season specified for that area, except for modern handguns carried for personal protection

Did they change the rule or am I reading this wrong?

That may be true but the guy carrying the rifle is not hunting with a muzzle loader.

That makes sense.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: LDennis24 on December 10, 2019, 10:05:26 PM
You can hike all over the woods with any firearm you want. There is no restriction on self defense Firearms. Rifle or pistol can be used for self defense, or target practice.

Now if you see someone  actually shooting at a animal thatís different.

So which is it ? Was the guy shooting at a animal.?
Or just walking along with his buddy?

  :yeah:
He might not hunt at all but is just a competition target shooter...  :dunno:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Bob33 on December 10, 2019, 10:18:37 PM
"Carrying a modern firearm while muzzleloader hunting" is the title.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: LDennis24 on December 10, 2019, 11:00:44 PM
Actually it say's "muzzle loader" with a space. :tup:
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Okanagan on December 11, 2019, 08:45:07 AM
Have been casually following this thread but suddenly it has become personal.  I'm going along with a relative who will hunt a muzzle loading elk season and plan to hunt cougar with a .243 in that Management Unit while he hunts elk. 

How are all of you so sure it is OK to carry a .243 or larger modern rifle in a muzzle loader area when a muzzle loader season is on?

The only exception I have found to the prohibition on carrying a modern firearm during a muzzleloader season is a narrow interpretation of:  ďIt is unlawful... while in the field muzzleloader hunting...  ď  The loophole/unstated exception that would allow hunting cougar with a .243 is that I am in the field hunting but I am not muzzleloader hunting. .

Anywhere else in the regs spell this out better?   That interpretation alone is pretty thin and subject to field officer interpretation

(FWIW the page numbers and reg sections cited in this thread do not match the page numbers nor sections in my 2019 copy of WA State Big Game regs.)
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: MADMAX on December 11, 2019, 08:56:17 AM
A few years ago I was stopped by a game cop
I was archery hunting elk somehow the topic of grouse hunting came up and I said yeah I carry a 20 gauge on the backseat I am not going to waste an arrow on a grouse
We discussed it back-and-forth and he said youíre not supposed to have it in the field when archery hunting I said itís in my truck not in the field if I had the bow and the shotgun together outside the vehicle it wouldíve been a problem personally for me when the discussion ended it was determined that in the field is not the same as in the truck I believe the correct interpretation in this case is the gentleman that was muzzleloading and the gentleman that was rifle hunting are doing two separate things in the field anymore I donít bother to take the 20 gauge with me due to theft and donít wanna leave it in my truck thatís my personal choice so if one person is cougar hunting or coyote hunting with a modern firearm and has the appropriate License and tags I donít see a problem
In the field is the key You canít shoulder a modern firearm and carry a bow or front stuffer at the same time during a specific muzzleloader or archery season no different then what you have described

Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: bobcat on December 11, 2019, 08:57:34 AM
If you're not hunting deer or elk during a muzzleloader season then there are no restrictions on what kind of firearm you can carry. That would be ridiculous if there was. So that would mean you could not use a modern firearm for bear or cougar except during modern firearm deer and elk seasons. Or, after all archery and muzzleloader seasons were over for the year, which would be December 31.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: 300rum on December 11, 2019, 10:55:36 AM
I called a local WDFW office on this a couple years back.  I was having a coyote problem on my property, stealing chickens, stalking livestock, etc.  I was concerned as I was going to spotlight the coyote(s) and shoot them during the modern season and I didn't have a modern tag anyway.  They said that I could proceed with my plan since it was on my property.  I suppose there is always and exception.... 

There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: Samloffler on December 11, 2019, 12:58:23 PM
Way too much over thinking going on here. Are you hunting elk with the modern rifle? No. Proceed. Its is literally only illegal when you have a ML or bow AND rifle on you at the same time while actively hunting. Pistols are legal always, just don't put the kill shot on something with your 45.
Title: Re: Carrying a modern firearm while muzzle loader hunting
Post by: steen on December 11, 2019, 01:29:07 PM
There is an issue to consider during modern deer and elk seasons but not muzzleloader.

(1) It is unlawful to hunt wildlife during any modern firearm deer or elk season with any firearm 240 caliber or larger, or containing slugs or buckshot, unless the hunter has a valid license, permits and tags for modern firearm deer or elk seasons are in his or her possession.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-413-060)

And itís a dumb law. :twocents:
The wording is "hunt" so I see carrying a rifle not against the law, although that is probably what they are portraying.  So many laws are worded in such a way that it is confusing. With that being said, I don't carry a rifle unless I have a tag in my pocket. But I most always have my sidearm when in the woods. I wouldn't kill an animal out of season unless I was protecting myself or others. Once I remember doing a little 4 wheeling and we got stuck a couple miles from home. We had 2 rifles in the truck and proceeded to walk home carrying the rifles. We certainly were not going to leave them in the truck! That has been 30 years but what do you do? (although it could have been hunting season, hence the reason the rifles were in the truck!) Look at the 1639 law where you are not allowed to borrow your rifle to someone unless you are with them. (if I remember the law right) That means the new change in the hunting laws that say a child now under the age of 14-16 can now hunt of his/her own, BUT they cannot own a firearm! Just a few thoughts.