Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: ghosthunter on January 31, 2020, 07:07:40 PM

Title: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ghosthunter on January 31, 2020, 07:07:40 PM
Is it time that bow hunters start getting drawn for cows or spikes?

In a state with too many hunters, too many predators , liberal native hunting and too little game ,can we continue to allow bow hunters to shoot either Spike or Cow when everyone one else has to draw for cows.

We all pay the same money. So shouldnít we have the same opportunity?
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Jellymon on January 31, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Everybody has the same opportunity to choose to hunt with archery equipment.  :twocents:

I want the opportunity for my bow to shoot 600yds. I pay the same for a tag, right? And where can bowhunters shoot spikes where rifle cant?
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Jhughes32 on January 31, 2020, 07:40:09 PM
Everyone has the opportunity to hunt archery....
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Bango skank on January 31, 2020, 07:53:27 PM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle.  Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily.  It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun.  Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: duckmen1 on January 31, 2020, 07:53:50 PM
If I do recall elk herds were pretty robust with over the counter cow archery harvest. Then a higher weapon choice had excessive, excessive, and even more excessive high success rate cow tags given. And now herds are claimed to be down. But that's ok to do when it's for the benefit of that user.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: RobinHoodlum on January 31, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
 :yeah:
Take a look at where the harvest came from prior to the current 3 year package. Three years of 300ish tags for both modern and muzzy in every GMU hammered down the Yakima herd.
Unfortunately, you won't find the numbers for elk killed with landowner kill permits and damage tags, but that's a big part of the equation.
Diminishing the already meager opportunities of the different weapon classes is not the answer
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: hunter399 on January 31, 2020, 08:22:57 PM
Here's the plan.
We combine rifle and muzzy for longer season.
And bow season starts to have same rule as modern muzzy.
Now let the popcorn fly.I'm waiting.
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno:

 :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: duckmen1 on January 31, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Little Natches 2018. Shame on you archery hunters for taking so many elk. Let modern have a few.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: buglebrush on January 31, 2020, 10:42:08 PM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle.  Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily.  It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun.  Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.

Exactly.  Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty.  Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal. 
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Bango skank on January 31, 2020, 10:58:35 PM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle.  Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily.  It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun.  Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.

Exactly.  Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty.  Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.

Ive had trophy bucks broadside at 30 and 40 yards with a bow in my hand and let them walk.  Not only the difficulty of drawing when you cant be seen, then holding draw until you have a shot opportunity, then maybe having to let down your draw when you cant hold it any longer, and you can be seen letting down.. but also the consideration of a deer jumping the string...  yeah, even a muzzy would have notched a lot of tags for me that i didnt notch because i was holding a bow.  Its another major set of challenges using a bow, so it makes sense to have less restricted opportunities.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Bunny Thumper on February 01, 2020, 12:29:08 AM
There are a lot of bow hunters out there hunting elk. Itís already hard enough to be successful archery hunting elk. Take away the incentive of being able to shoot a cow and a little longer season and a lot of guys will just switch back to modern or muzzy making those seasons more crowded. As someone whoís bow hunted elk for 35 years I can tell you as bow hunting has gotten more popular the last 10-15 years, there are A LOT of them out there. You might want to keep them there and not in your already crowded modern and muzzy seasons.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 06:51:42 AM
If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc

Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: cem3434 on February 01, 2020, 07:08:35 AM
If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc

Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$

 :yeah: ding ding, we have a winner!
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: TommyH on February 01, 2020, 07:12:05 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/U1aN4HTfJ2SmgB2BBK/giphy.gif
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Taco280AI on February 01, 2020, 08:35:16 AM
We all pay the same money. So shouldnít we have the same opportunity?

You do, go get a bow and start practicing.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Stein on February 01, 2020, 08:37:28 AM
If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc

Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$

 :yeah: ding ding, we have a winner!

 :bdid:  The battle is not in here guys.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 01, 2020, 08:48:09 AM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle.  Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily.  It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun.  Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.

Exactly.  Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty.  Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.
The weapon is harder, and under similar conditions--the hunting strategies much more limited.  Since the timber company permits and more people going archery, the other seasons are getting much more difficult.  Finding a legal bull in muzzy now (1 1/2 weeks after being chased by the bugling army) is getting harder and harder.  Also since WDFW opened up so many additional early muzzy units, the rifle guys aren't getting nearly the same experience as a few years ago.  Couldn't imagine someone trying to hunt elk on public land with archery during the rifle season.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: buckfvr on February 01, 2020, 10:12:37 AM
Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: huntnfmly on February 01, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 01, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: snake on February 01, 2020, 12:21:21 PM
In a state that believes lighted nocks are an unfair advantage, explaining "equal" opportunity will be difficult.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: buckfvr on February 01, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.

 :yeah:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Pegasus on February 01, 2020, 03:34:17 PM
For years WDFW has reduced the benefit of bow hunting in favor of muzzie and modern hunters. Seasons used to be longer and the start and finish days were changed that lessened your chances to fill your tag. We used to be hunting elk in the first week of October. Deer season opens so early in September that you can hunt in a T-shirt and shorts. Many areas for late and damage hunts were given to modern firearm hunters or eliminated. Seasons were based upon kill ratios and days in the field. Those have been altered to the benefit of muzzie and modern firearm hunters.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 03:58:03 PM
I do t believe we can continue hunting cows under the current conditions that exist. Regardless of what you think the problem is or where to place the blame.

I know several camps that wonít even go elk hunting unless they have a cow tag. Our camp bought all the muzzy tags and apps and never set afoot in elk country. Because it just wasnít worth it without a cow or bull tag.

Since the state started dumping cow tags on the table years ago, the hunting for spikes has gone in the dumpster. Five hunters in camp in 2016,17,18 all had harvested elk in their lives,all experienced hunters in their 50_60s. Not one saw a spike. Big bulls even cows no problem to see.

All elk come from cows, less cows , less elk. Cows are whatís needed not big bulls.

Ya we could pick up a bow, but I donít think the weapons makes a difference.

Itís no sure thing with any weapon.

Something has to give. Predators,tribes, management are only going to get worse.

Draws for cow by all user groups and reduced cow tags or No cow tags for anyone.

Regardless of your weapon of choice If you never see a Spike. Really doesnít matter what weapon you have, you have no opportunities.


Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 01, 2020, 04:13:35 PM
GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.

Nope no data.
Just  my own observation.

In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse.  No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.

Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 04:55:29 PM
Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ribka on February 01, 2020, 06:21:27 PM
Do you spend time in all the eastern elk units year round? Or just a week in camp in one area of an elk unit you have hunted for years to come up with your opinion :dunno:


GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.

Nope no data.
Just  my own observation.

In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse.  No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ribka on February 01, 2020, 06:24:21 PM
there's your answer


Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 06:26:30 PM
In ghosthunters defense

He is right about the over harvest of cows and the influence of Spikes. His disdain is just directed in the wrong direction. I get it though

Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote


donít disagree with you.

So how do we fix it?  No cow tags for awhile will help.
We are hung up on our little area of interest. Because everyone thinks they have the short straw.
Regardless of how we got here I donít believe it will get better until cow tags are eliminated for a period of time.  If the WDFW offers the tags every user group will use them.  I would too. If those are the cards we are dealt , so be it.
But sooner or later the bullet has to be bitten.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: robodad on February 01, 2020, 06:34:24 PM
Make archery 2pt, muzzy 4pt or better and rifle 6pt or better and everyone draw for cows !
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 06:46:43 PM
Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote


donít disagree with you.

So how do we fix it?  No cow tags for awhile will help.
We are hung up on our little area of interest. Because everyone thinks they have the short straw.
Regardless of how we got here I donít believe it will get better until cow tags are eliminated for a period of time.  If the WDFW offers the tags every user group will use them.  I would too. If those are the cards we are dealt , so be it.
But sooner or later the bullet has to be bitten.

I donít think the WDFW will do what it needs too. All you have to do is look at how they have sat on their hands with the deer herds in Yakima. Hunting is abysmal for deer and now the elk herds arenít doing much better.

I guess that is why I am spending September out of state hunting like a lot of other guys are doing as well.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: snake on February 01, 2020, 06:54:07 PM
The WDFW/ Washington "Kill em all, or Save them All mentality does not work.  set low conservative number of cow tags for every group and let it ride for 5 years.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
 :yeah:
The WDFW/ Washington "Kill em all, or Save them All mentality does not work.  set low conservative number of cow tags for every group and let it ride for 5 years.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 01, 2020, 07:29:03 PM
I have said it multiple times....

If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)

NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.

The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.

Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.

Now take George's scenario and multiply it by  X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.

We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.

No More Multi Permits !!!!!!

 
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: hunter399 on February 01, 2020, 09:15:27 PM
I have said it multiple times....

If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)

NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.

The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.

Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.

Now take George's scenario and multiply it by  X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.

We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.

No More Multi Permits !!!!!!
Agreed  :yeah:
Its a money bag push That's really effects populations chance of winter survival.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
I have said it multiple times....

If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)

NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.

The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.

Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.

Now take George's scenario and multiply it by  X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.

We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.

No More Multi Permits !!!!!!

Apparently I need Georgeís job who has a months worth of vacation to hunt elk through the fall.

Multi season tags are a waste of money IMO, just expands the weekend warriors season a few more weekends...
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 02, 2020, 07:47:12 AM
I have been George.  I live to hunt. ALL my free time (vacation included) is devoted to it. Many others do the same.

We all complain about how crowded the woods are during each weapon season, but the overall #s of hunters is down. The answer to that is simple math,...Ö. there are thousands of us hunting every season.

 
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 02, 2020, 08:14:58 AM
A few people I know that got MS tags, ended up hunting less overall.  They would just do a little in archery or blow it off because they could make it up in the next four seasons.  Then only do a little in muzzy because they could fall back on rifle season.  Rifle season rolls around and they leave a little early because they still have late season options.  Late season comes and they are getting nagged by the wife for being gone so much and barely hunt it.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Bango skank on February 02, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
A few people I know that got MS tags, ended up hunting less overall.  They would just do a little in archery or blow it off because they could make it up in the next four seasons.  Then only do a little in muzzy because they could fall back on rifle season.  Rifle season rolls around and they leave a little early because they still have late season options.  Late season comes and they are getting nagged by the wife for being gone so much and barely hunt it.

I did even worse.  Drew multi elk in 2018.  Was in alaska all of archery, muzzy and mf seasons, and spent all of late archery elk season hunting deer.  8 years to draw that ms permit and didnt get to hunt elk one single day.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: HillHound on February 02, 2020, 08:43:05 AM
 As others have already said the real answer is reduce the antlerless harvest overall. They are the ones that have the babies therefore they are the ones that grow the herds.  But  even this probably wouldnít make a difference with all the damage and tribal killing of the cows. If they switched the Eastside to three point minimum for all weapons  there would be a massive influx of new hunters but if Cow hunting was restricted completely I bet the end result would be a larger herd still the next year even with the greatly inflated success rates of bull hunters. And the downside would be people get a few less pictures of big bulls at the feeding station, A couple dozen less antlers wonít be picked up early by people sneaking in,and the jerky guy would have a few less racks to sell on craigslist.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: mburrows on February 02, 2020, 08:53:05 AM
I'd be on board with taking away some OTC opportunities for deer and elk but keep it OTC for youth hunters in favor of people having a more quality experience and helping folks use their special permit points.  In place of the OTC tags give out higher number of draw hunts, have a couple draw archery seasons, a muzzy season and a couple rifle seasons that are each a week or two long.  Like Colorado does for mule deer and Arizona does for elk.

A non scientific example:

No more OTC tags for Entiat for Bucks or Does. Give out 200 early archery permits (Sept 1-14), 50 early muzzy permits (Sept 15-25), 50 early rifle permits (Sept 28th-Oct15), 20 2nd season rifle permits (Oct 18- Oct25), 15 3rd season rifle permits (October 31st-November 8th) and 25 late archery permits (Nov 15-25th)

Also sprinkle in more draw doe hunts when you remove OTC doe tags to hit harvest objectives.

This would help control the overall amount of pressure each unit sees and would allow more people to actually use their points. 
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: kselkhunter on February 02, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
Pitting weapons groups against each other isn't going to resolve anything.   I hunt with all three weapons across multiple states, primarily to be able to fit in all the hunting to feed my elk hunting addiction.   


2018 WDFW stats: (2019 not posted yet)
Archery harvested 1,505 elk; 705 of those anterless
Rifle harvested 2,836 elk, 697 of those antlerless
Muzzy harvested 1,218 elk; 449 of those antlerless


Rifle hunters kill just as many cows as archery.   


If I were in charge of WDFW, I would not allow any anterless harvests.  I'd extend archery season back to the longer length it was in years past in exchange for removing the cow opportunities.  And I'd change the muzzy restriction back to NW legal, removing 209 primers.  No cow tags for any weapons seasons, special permit or OTC.  At least until such time the elk populations are healthier, then revisit a sane approach to cow tags.


And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state.  Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer.   That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more.   My  :twocents:   
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Bango skank on February 02, 2020, 09:43:52 AM



And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state.  Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer.   That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more.   My  :twocents:

While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea.  A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags.  This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting.  There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt.  But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: kselkhunter on February 02, 2020, 09:51:59 AM



And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state.  Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer.   That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more.   My  :twocents:

While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea.  A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags.  This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting.  There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt.  But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.


I think the guys putting boots on the ground taking out predators should be rewarded.  I've increased my predator hunting the past few years, but I suck at it.   The guys that are good at it should get an extra bonus in my opinion, because it's not easy.  Predator hunters should be the hero's of ungulate hunters and rewarded as such.  As those guys are doing more for our deer/elk populations than the guys complaining on hunting forums.  I know it would never get approved, but there should be a master hunter category for bear/cougar hunters that they're allowed to harvest multiple predators per year beyond what the rest of us are allowed, as it takes years to learn predator hunting without the use of bait or dogs.


Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 02, 2020, 12:19:18 PM
There are a lot of bow hunters out there hunting elk. Itís already hard enough to be successful archery hunting elk. Take away the incentive of being able to shoot a cow and a little longer season and a lot of guys will just switch back to modern or muzzy making those seasons more crowded. As someone whoís bow hunted elk for 35 years I can tell you as bow hunting has gotten more popular the last 10-15 years, there are A LOT of them out there. You might want to keep them there and not in your already crowded modern and muzzy seasons.



FACT.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Pegasus on February 02, 2020, 01:27:17 PM



And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state.  Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer.   That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more.   My  :twocents:

While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea.  A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags.  This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting.  There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt.  But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.


I think the guys putting boots on the ground taking out predators should be rewarded.  I've increased my predator hunting the past few years, but I suck at it.   The guys that are good at it should get an extra bonus in my opinion, because it's not easy.  Predator hunters should be the hero's of ungulate hunters and rewarded as such.  As those guys are doing more for our deer/elk populations than the guys complaining on hunting forums.  I know it would never get approved, but there should be a master hunter category for bear/cougar hunters that they're allowed to harvest multiple predators per year beyond what the rest of us are allowed, as it takes years to learn predator hunting without the use of bait or dogs.

Actually those extra points would act as a bounty and WDFW could control the interest by the amount of points assigned to each species that needs controlling. After all, how many elk and deer are taken each year by specific predators versus a few hunters filing their tags once every ten or twenty years? Bounties have been very effective in the past in controlling predators. The point system boost would probably draw less negative animosity from anti-hunting groups than a real cash bounty would.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 02, 2020, 06:41:12 PM
There are a lot of bow hunters out there hunting elk. Itís already hard enough to be successful archery hunting elk. Take away the incentive of being able to shoot a cow and a little longer season and a lot of guys will just switch back to modern or muzzy making those seasons more crowded. As someone whoís bow hunted elk for 35 years I can tell you as bow hunting has gotten more popular the last 10-15 years, there are A LOT of them out there. You might want to keep them there and not in your already crowded modern and muzzy seasons.
Yup, of it comes to that I'll just stop, not going to the modern crowd again.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 02, 2020, 06:45:24 PM
Let's make one season, same dates for everyone and separate units for each type with same harvest rules. Which unit will run out of animals first?
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: duckmen1 on February 02, 2020, 07:01:07 PM
Let's make one season, same dates for everyone and separate units for each type with same harvest rules. Which unit will run out of animals first?

Oh I know I know pick me.  :chuckle: just look how it is now state wide as it is without it even being that way. I know my guess.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 03, 2020, 10:38:26 PM
That archery harvest is higher than I thought.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Special T on February 03, 2020, 11:28:53 PM
A couple of things. 2018 archery elk harvest was over allotment with 6 days instead of 14. It was also the first year of this change.

Some have suggested some kind of incentive to harvest more cats. The governor has thwarted  past attempts at increasing the quotas. The current cougar proposed changes have ZERO increase in cats. 95%+ of cat harvests are incidental. Meaning I'm hunting deer or elk and see a cat so I shot it. This percentage of incidental take does not lend hunters to being a solution to overpopulation of cats.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: jnordwell on February 14, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
Is it time that bow hunters start getting drawn for cows or spikes?

In a state with too many hunters, too many predators , liberal native hunting and too little game ,can we continue to allow bow hunters to shoot either Spike or Cow when everyone one else has to draw for cows.

We all pay the same money. So shouldnít we have the same opportunity?

The question is how far can you shoot with your weapon of choice. 50-60 yards for compounds 30 for traditional..
muzzleloader 100-200
Modern rifle 300-900+ but all hunters should help each other. Maybe we can swap years.. if your last name is a-m you get tags even years and n-z odd years..
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Fullabull on February 17, 2020, 09:14:26 PM
I think maybe you should switch to archery and see how easy it is. What is the only group to hunt at the prime of the rut in WA? It's not archery.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Jellymon on February 17, 2020, 09:38:06 PM
Iím still trying to figure out why a trolling, argument inducing thread full of assumptions was deemed important enough to qualify as a sticky.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Mudman on February 17, 2020, 09:45:13 PM
I have the solution...Ö.   ALL of us don't buy deer/elk tags.   This makes big statement to State n wdfw, then we ALL buy cougar/bear tags and only predator hunt for 1 year.   Hopefully reducing predator #'s and also allowing prey to grow!   2 birds 1 stone.   No Disc pass purchase either...
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Jellymon on February 17, 2020, 09:49:58 PM
 :yeah:
 :chuckle: :tup:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Matth on February 18, 2020, 05:22:53 PM
I have the solution...Ö.   ALL of us don't buy deer/elk tags.   This makes big statement to State n wdfw, then we ALL buy cougar/bear tags and only predator hunt for 1 year.   Hopefully reducing predator #'s and also allowing prey to grow!   2 birds 1 stone.   No Disc pass purchase either...
Best idea i have heard in a while. I could just hunt antlered game out of state for a year or two. :tup:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: dreamingbig on February 18, 2020, 08:27:39 PM
The unfortunate reality is that without proper predator management (not going to happen, given up hope) there arenít going to be enough elk to support the harvest rates that advanced weapons bring.

The entire state will need to move to archery only to reduce harvest rates and or hold 1 day hunts for modern firearm.


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Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: goldenhtr on March 11, 2020, 06:00:42 PM
Iím still trying to figure out why a trolling, argument inducing thread full of assumptions was deemed important enough to qualify as a sticky.  :dunno:

 :yeah:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Fullabull on April 18, 2020, 09:44:15 PM
All three weapons have equal difficulty in hunting for different reasons. Archery, distance, accuracy, lack of hunters pushing elk around, and (no we don't get to hunt prime rut). Muzzy, distance, accuracy (no scopes) and lack of other hunters pushing elk around. Modern, hunting after rut, after two other weapon seasons and competing with to many other hunters. The harvest success rates prove this.
So it's not the weapon choices that is the problem. It's the management.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ballpark on April 30, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
The WDFW/ Washington "Kill em all, or Save them All mentality does not work.  set low conservative number of cow tags for every group and let it ride for 5 years.

 :yeah: :tup:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: GameHunter1959 on June 08, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
IMO- If the lack of Predator management, Tribal Hunting, etc. continues the way it is; our Big Game herds will continue to dwindle down to the point the WSDFW will have to move to a draw only system and close areas such as the Blues in an attempt to rebuild the populations. I donít see our herds lasting another 10-15 years at the current pace. Iím no expert, but common sense and simple logic says the herds are in trouble. The drastic reduction in Quality permits seems to be the first step. What really upsets me is all the doe, second deer, youth, etc. permits. The Department is continuing to offer them year after year in an attempt to collect revenue that they should be collecting elsewhere if they were managing our Big Game properly. We will always have some form of hunting in Washington, but how good of hunting will it truly be. Now Grizzly bears are moving in. Imagine all the elk and moose calves that wonít make it, due to Grizzlyís and of course wolves all over the state.

Iíve never hunted elsewhere, but Iím strongly considering investing my money in Alaska, Arizona, and New Mexico if this negligence continues. They need to scrap the current Department and hire in some folks with a proven track record of understanding how to properly manage Big Game and the finances that come with it. 2 cents
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Mudman on June 08, 2020, 07:33:54 PM
Eliminate scopes and semi auto rifles.  Open sight single shot.  Regulate to hard cast ammo only.  Shut out some gmus's.  Yup make em equal.  All get 1 week in october rotating annual. :tup: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: scoutdog346 on June 09, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Maybe WDFW's goal should be for all categories/weapons to harvest close to the same amount of game and or have the same opportunity.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: GameHunter1959 on June 11, 2020, 04:57:22 AM
Maybe WDFW's goal should be for all categories/weapons to harvest close to the same amount of game and or have the same opportunity.

That would be tough unless they severely impacted the Modern Firearm structure, which could potentially make a major impact on the revenue they make off Modern Firearm hunters. Assuming Iím understanding your comment. Itís going to be interesting to see if any major changes are coming in the next few years.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: scoutdog346 on June 16, 2020, 07:28:06 AM
 : I was being sarcastic...that is wdfw's goal . They try to make all  Weapons do have the same opportunity in the same percentage. They have to otherwise would be given preference over to one and not the other
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: lemondog on September 21, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
Sorry but all the issues listed in the comments above will require a system similar to Nevada. Everyone (including residents) will have to draw...That means you don't get to be the shooter every year. And it will cost more to apply. Trust me, it's more fun to go help a buddy on a true "quality hunt" than to march around the woods and see nothing but hunters, 2 point bucks and cows with a weapon in hand. Accecpt it or accecpt a very poor hunting experience as we go forward. We are not going to beat all the ridiculous issues we have to deal with in this state including no viaiable preditor control, wolf introduction, native unlimited hunting and a growing human population. I have been hunting mostly out of state for the last 15 years because of this. It has been very rewarding whether a harvest was accomplished or not. It's time we all got on the same page...No matter what user group you are in or were going to end up with nothing worth talking about.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Tribal Elder on October 27, 2020, 06:56:35 AM
Go to a draw only system. You put in for what you want, where, and how and if you get drawn you get to hunt. If not, you don't. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: trophyhunt on October 27, 2020, 07:05:38 AM
Go to a draw only system. You put in for what you want, where, and how and if you get drawn you get to hunt. If not, you don't. Problem solved.
Hmm, If you are tribal, I can see why this would be easy for you to say.  If not, a draw only system isn't needed on the west side, the east side has an issue that has been going on for years, prob will never get solved.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Ironhead on October 27, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
Sorry but all the issues listed in the comments above will require a system similar to Nevada. Everyone (including residents) will have to draw...That means you don't get to be the shooter every year. And it will cost more to apply. Trust me, it's more fun to go help a buddy on a true "quality hunt" than to march around the woods and see nothing but hunters, 2 point bucks and cows with a weapon in hand. Accecpt it or accecpt a very poor hunting experience as we go forward. We are not going to beat all the ridiculous issues we have to deal with in this state including no viaiable preditor control, wolf introduction, native unlimited hunting and a growing human population. I have been hunting mostly out of state for the last 15 years because of this. It has been very rewarding whether a harvest was accomplished or not. It's time we all got on the same page...No matter what user group you are in or were going to end up with nothing worth talking about.
This is spot on!
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: ibuyre on November 15, 2020, 07:59:04 PM
Eliminate scopes and semi auto rifles.  Open sight single shot.  Regulate to hard cast ammo only.  Shut out some gmus's.  Yup make em equal.  All get 1 week in october rotating annual. :tup: :chuckle:

I kinda, sorta REALLY REALLY like that ;). But I did grow up shooting cast lead from single shots, and I would love to have reason to hunt with one. Sometimes I take one out into the timber just cause, but have yet to connect like that. Shoot some of those are more primitive than a modern muzzle loader.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: jstone on November 15, 2020, 08:03:59 PM
Stop the Multi Season
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: M_ray on November 16, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
What Lemondog said

About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until then we are are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they arenít to blame.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Stein on November 16, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
What Lemondog said

About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until they are we are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they arenít to blame.

 :yeah:  People want to buy more special draw applications and WDFW is happy to sell them.  Sometimes, we are our worst enemy although there are people that understand the odds and still prefer the existing system.  I would bet that 90% or more of the general hunting population doesn't understand it.

The general tag does represent significant opportunity and there are a bunch of people that cherish hunting every year far and above the quality of experience, length of season, having to chose weapon and side of state, odds of seeing a legal animal or any other metric.  It's a valid position, just not one I personally agree with which is why there won't be significant change.  A bunch want to keep it and a bunch want to change.  The only thing that will actually change is the numbers of tags actually available.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Ironhead on November 16, 2020, 01:06:41 PM
What Lemondog said

About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until they are we are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they arenít to blame.

 :yeah:  People want to buy more special draw applications and WDFW is happy to sell them.  Sometimes, we are our worst enemy although there are people that understand the odds and still prefer the existing system.  I would bet that 90% or more of the general hunting population doesn't understand it.

The general tag does represent significant opportunity and there are a bunch of people that cherish hunting every year far and above the quality of experience, length of season, having to chose weapon and side of state, odds of seeing a legal animal or any other metric.  It's a valid position, just not one I personally agree with which is why there won't be significant change.  A bunch want to keep it and a bunch want to change.  The only thing that will actually change is the numbers of tags actually available.
Washington is the laughing stock of the West, even California has better Widlife Management!
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: Stein on November 16, 2020, 01:31:21 PM
True, but management and tag scheme are two different issues in my mind.  Tag schemes are pretty much financially driven from what I have seen, states work to maximize the revenue for whatever tags they have available.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: buckfvr on November 16, 2020, 02:08:30 PM
Changes are on the horizon.  It cant go on as is in the direction its going.

I wish everyone would write in and demand harvest report to include public and private land hunts/success.  It would provide more usable information for hunters who travel and apply for permits. 

Also, I would argue the day they make baiting deer/elk illegal, the harvest success halves.  I mention this because wdfw talk about it each year AT LEAST.  Whitetail hunters in ne wa. will experience wide spread failure, imho.
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: callturner on November 16, 2020, 02:28:50 PM
Go to a draw only system. You put in for what you want, where, and how and if you get drawn you get to hunt. If not, you don't. Problem solved.
That's real good ! I have 22 points for moose and they live in my back yard basically! :bdid:
Title: Re: Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?
Post by: M_ray on November 16, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
What Lemondog said

About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until then we are are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they arenít to blame.

BTW this suggestion was for 1 choice quality tag and keeping a general season. So really not all that different Than now but it would increase your chances of drawing the quality tag much sooner. We would be drawing a quality hunt every 3-5 years as opposed to 15-20 🤷🏻‍♂️ Whatís not to like?

Those that still want ALL their choices donít understand that taking 3 choices Out of the system from everyone increases their odds and in the same 15-20 year period they would prob have 3 or 4 quality hunts instead.

This is a better option than trying to match weapons and seasons to even opportunity.