Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: jdmecomber on February 15, 2020, 06:47:22 PM

Title: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: jdmecomber on February 15, 2020, 06:47:22 PM
I picked up my 2011 Regulations I had saved and just checked some quick data against the 2019 Regulations

Deer

2011 Entiat 25 tags now 15

2011 Grayback 40 tags now 20 tags

2011 Windriver  40 tags  now 20 tags

2011 West Kitckitat 40 tags now 15

Elk

2011 peaches ridge 81 tags now  10

2011 goose prairie 70 tags now 7

2011  observatory 89 tags now 20

2011 bethel. 25 tags now 6

2011 rim rock 85 tags. now 21


Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Birdguy on February 15, 2020, 08:35:37 PM
We all know it, but it sucks to see it in black and white! Imagine what it was in 2000.... :'(

For real fun check out license prices you those did not get cut by 50% or greater.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: bornhunter on February 15, 2020, 09:19:32 PM
What caused such a reduction in such a short period of time? We all know the causes but which of them caused it to occur so fast?
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 15, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Heck I remember the any bull any buck general tag year's.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 15, 2020, 11:04:45 PM
What caused such a reduction in such a short period of time? We all know the causes but which of them caused it to occur so fast?

Perfect storm - outlaw hunting cougar & bear with dogs, outlaw leghold traps, bring in wolves, tribes ramp up their take, global warming, more technology - gps/rangefinders/etc. ,  disease, fire,  mismanagement.   Pick any or all the above.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: dvolmer on February 16, 2020, 12:20:25 AM
If you have the chance, please compare the blue mountain quality bull elk tags too.  Would like to see that.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: huntnphool on February 16, 2020, 01:10:21 AM
 IMO Entiat tags should never have gone past 10 to begin with, Id prefer 5 at the very most....same with all quality mule deer tags. My dream is 1 per unit. :twocents:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: kentrek on February 16, 2020, 07:21:05 AM
IMO Entiat tags should never have gone past 10 to begin with, Id prefer 5 at the very most....same with all quality mule deer tags. My dream is 1 per unit. :twocents:

1 tag draw odds are not my dream....but I'm sure youl get your wish eventually if auction tags keep selling like they did last night...

WA is alil behind  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 16, 2020, 07:34:06 AM
IMO Entiat tags should never have gone past 10 to begin with, Id prefer 5 at the very most....same with all quality mule deer tags. My dream is 1 per unit. :twocents:

Then what do you do with general season ..

Mule deer probably should be draw only hunts anyway but once you go there you'll never go back. Not in this state.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: millerwheeler on February 16, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
What caused such a reduction in such a short period of time? We all know the causes but which of them caused it to occur so fast?

Perfect storm - outlaw hunting cougar & bear with dogs, outlaw leghold traps, bring in wolves, tribes ramp up their take, global warming, more technology - gps/rangefinders/etc. ,  disease, fire,  mismanagement.   Pick any or all the above.


 ALL ACCURATE BUT GLOBAL.WARMING ISNT REAL.COME.ON :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Dan-o on February 16, 2020, 07:55:07 AM
IMO Entiat tags should never have gone past 10 to begin with, Id prefer 5 at the very most....same with all quality mule deer tags. My dream is 1 per unit. :twocents:

Really?

Most of us casswould never erw a quality tag. 
There are still some really nice bucks taken each year. 
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: KFhunter on February 16, 2020, 08:09:35 AM
reducing opportunity will make you all better hunters, and it'll be just that much more rewarding when you do take that trophy animal! 


/sarcasm
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 16, 2020, 08:51:43 AM
I think we all dream of having a whole gmu to ourselves. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: buglebrush on February 16, 2020, 09:11:14 AM
The trend will only Worsen.  WA is hopeless.  Every employee of WDFW, especially Biologists, should be ashamed of what they've allowed to happen by protecting predators at the cost of all other wildlife.  If predators don't get aggressive management there won't be any game left for two legged hunters. 
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: huntnphool on February 16, 2020, 10:41:04 AM
IMO Entiat tags should never have gone past 10 to begin with, Id prefer 5 at the very most....same with all quality mule deer tags. My dream is 1 per unit. :twocents:

Then what do you do with general season ..

Mule deer probably should be draw only hunts anyway but once you go there you'll never go back. Not in this state.

 Do away with the quality late hunts and move the general season end to the last Sunday of Oct.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bob33 on February 16, 2020, 11:04:36 AM
We all know it, but it sucks to see it in black and white! Imagine what it was in 2000.... :'(

For real fun check out license prices you those did not get cut by 50% or greater.
Interesting question. Here are the numbers.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 16, 2020, 11:16:13 AM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 11:21:31 AM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?

Hunters have taken the cut again and again and again.  If we keep supporting it, it will never stop, they wont address the predator issue.  Weve given up enough, time to focus on the problem.  More predator control is needed, not less hunting opportunity.  I say we shouldnt have to give another inch until proper predator management goes along with it.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: snake on February 16, 2020, 11:25:56 AM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?

Hunters have taken the cut again and again and again.  If we keep supporting it, it will never stop, they wont address the predator issue.  Weve given up enough, time to focus on the problem.  More predator control is needed, not less hunting opportunity.  I say we shouldnt have to give another inch until proper predator management goes along with it.
Absolutely right.  Its amazing that so many hunters are basically begging for the state to take away more opportunity when there are so many other options.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 16, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Oh crips...I agree with Bango on something for once.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 11:28:48 AM
Oh crips...I agree with Bango on something for once.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day  :dunno:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 16, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?

Hunters have taken the cut again and again and again.  If we keep supporting it, it will never stop, they wont address the predator issue.  Weve given up enough, time to focus on the problem.  More predator control is needed, not less hunting opportunity.  I say we shouldnt have to give another inch until proper predator management goes along with it.
So do you support an increase in permits or remain the same where a quality permit isn't really quality?
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 11:34:58 AM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?

Hunters have taken the cut again and again and again.  If we keep supporting it, it will never stop, they wont address the predator issue.  Weve given up enough, time to focus on the problem.  More predator control is needed, not less hunting opportunity.  I say we shouldnt have to give another inch until proper predator management goes along with it.
So do you support an increase in permits or remain the same where a quality permit isn't really quality?

No matter how many cuts WE take, the herds will not improve until predators are dealt with properly.  So reduce opportunity all you want, but without predator management it still wont be quality, and it will continue getting worse.  Continuing to cut hunter opportunity year after year is not the answer, it wont fix things.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: jrebel on February 16, 2020, 11:37:02 AM
One of the real problems with hunters in general.....My :twocents: :twocents:......is the "trophy hunting."  This state continues to cut in an attempt to produce "quality" not quantity.  The hunters that are very loud and in your face are quite often "Trophy" hunters that are looking for the elusive 200" mule deer.  I drew a quality late archery tag last year and saw 150 deer a day without trying.  We saw plenty of quality bucks (not 200 inchers....but quality).  To say the tags need to be cut even more is simply crazy.  Increase opportunity with bear and cougar.  Allow dogs and bait.  Do it for 3 year and see what happens to our ungulate population.  If it works and we see and increase in numbers then continue.  If we don't see an increase then take it back to where it was.  If you want to be a trophy hunter.....get our and hunt harder because this state carries plenty of big bucks.  I think Bone's calendar proves that.   :tup:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 11:40:09 AM
One of the real problems with hunters in general.....My :twocents: :twocents:......is the "trophy hunting."  This state continues to cut in an attempt to produce "quality" not quantity.  The hunters that are very loud and in your face are quite often "Trophy" hunters that are looking for the elusive 200" mule deer.  I drew a quality late archery tag last year and saw 150 deer a day without trying.  We saw plenty of quality bucks (not 200 inchers....but quality).  To say the tags need to be cut even more is simply crazy.  Increase opportunity with bear and cougar.  Allow dogs and bait.  Do it for 3 year and see what happens to our ungulate population.  If it works and we see and increase in numbers then continue.  If we don't see an increase then take it back to where it was.  If you want to be a trophy hunter.....get our and hunt harder because this state carries plenty of big bucks.  I think Bone's calendar proves that.   :tup:

So the trophy hunters that let lots of bucks walk are the problem huh?  Interesting take on it.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: jrebel on February 16, 2020, 11:47:20 AM
One of the real problems with hunters in general.....My :twocents: :twocents:......is the "trophy hunting."  This state continues to cut in an attempt to produce "quality" not quantity.  The hunters that are very loud and in your face are quite often "Trophy" hunters that are looking for the elusive 200" mule deer.  I drew a quality late archery tag last year and saw 150 deer a day without trying.  We saw plenty of quality bucks (not 200 inchers....but quality).  To say the tags need to be cut even more is simply crazy.  Increase opportunity with bear and cougar.  Allow dogs and bait.  Do it for 3 year and see what happens to our ungulate population.  If it works and we see and increase in numbers then continue.  If we don't see an increase then take it back to where it was.  If you want to be a trophy hunter.....get our and hunt harder because this state carries plenty of big bucks.  I think Bone's calendar proves that.   :tup:


 
So the trophy hunters that let lots of bucks walk are the problem huh?  Interesting take on it.

No....the trophy hunters are typically the hunters that want further restrictions and less tags.  Some hunters have lost their way in my opinion and are simply horn hunters.  To produce bigger horns they will cut off their nose to spite their face.  I know quite a few that that petition the state / wdfw for less quality access and draw only units for mule deer because they want "quality".  These same hunters give their meat away becuase they don't like to eat it. 

I am vehemently oposed to this type of hunter and ideology that hunting has turned in to.  I too will have passed up bucks in search of a more mature animal, but I don't promote less opportunity for the masses because I have a dream of killing a boon and crocket buck. 
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: BigCutty3 on February 16, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
It boils down to too much pressure on the resource.  Whether from predators, non-tribal seasons, tribal seasons, loss of habitat, poaching, etc.  We are living off the memories and it isn't going to get any better.  Non-tribal hunters have taken the biggest reductions in opportunity for "quality" animals, but every other factor keeps hammering away at what we give up.  You can say the same thing about Deer and Elk, as you can about Salmon, Steelhead, and shellfish.  The predator and allocation issues are very similar.  Too many people and not enough resource to go around.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: buckfvr on February 16, 2020, 12:01:26 PM
Those of us who pass young bucks to get to mature bucks are mostly considered "trophy" hunters.  Dirty word, "trophy" where it applies to hunters, especially to the (my guess) 99% of those who cant pass anything with an antler.  In my opinion, it is the "cant pass anything" crowd that does by far the most damage.

The small percentage of true trophy hunters cant possibly have much voice unless they are within the system somewhere that gives them access to inportant ears.  I too despise those who give their meat away (because they and their family dont like it) and feel as though they shouldnt even be allowed to hunt.

Much is wrong, but I truly believe its from a management deficiency along with agendas not in line with wdfws mission statement.  They can write it without following it as they are now and have been for years.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Stein on February 16, 2020, 12:07:44 PM
Don't worry, just keep buying licenses and permits.  Trust that the state's recovery plan will work.

We can bitch all we want, but if you keep sending your money to Olympia, nothing will change.  If their revenue goes up every year the message they get is that they are doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
It boils down to too much pressure on the resource.  Whether from predators, non-tribal seasons, tribal seasons, loss of habitat, poaching, etc.  We are living off the memories and it isn't going to get any better.  Non-tribal hunters have taken the biggest reductions in opportunity for "quality" animals, but every other factor keeps hammering away at what we give up.  You can say the same thing about Deer and Elk, as you can about Salmon, Steelhead, and shellfish.  The predator and allocation issues are very similar.  Too many people and not enough resource to go around.

Yeah, but the people / resource ratio would be way way better if we got our predators in check.  It would do a LOT more to improve our herds than further reduction of permits.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: KFhunter on February 16, 2020, 12:56:04 PM
One of the real problems with hunters in general.....My :twocents: :twocents:......is the "trophy hunting."  This state continues to cut in an attempt to produce "quality" not quantity.  The hunters that are very loud and in your face are quite often "Trophy" hunters that are looking for the elusive 200" mule deer.  I drew a quality late archery tag last year and saw 150 deer a day without trying.  We saw plenty of quality bucks (not 200 inchers....but quality).  To say the tags need to be cut even more is simply crazy.  Increase opportunity with bear and cougar.  Allow dogs and bait.  Do it for 3 year and see what happens to our ungulate population.  If it works and we see and increase in numbers then continue.  If we don't see an increase then take it back to where it was.  If you want to be a trophy hunter.....get our and hunt harder because this state carries plenty of big bucks.  I think Bone's calendar proves that.   :tup:

So the trophy hunters that let lots of bucks walk are the problem huh?  Interesting take on it.

I've always said focus on quantity, the quality will take care of itself   :twocents:
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: OutHouse on February 16, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
One of the real problems with hunters in general.....My :twocents: :twocents:......is the "trophy hunting."  This state continues to cut in an attempt to produce "quality" not quantity.  The hunters that are very loud and in your face are quite often "Trophy" hunters that are looking for the elusive 200" mule deer.  I drew a quality late archery tag last year and saw 150 deer a day without trying.  We saw plenty of quality bucks (not 200 inchers....but quality).  To say the tags need to be cut even more is simply crazy.  Increase opportunity with bear and cougar.  Allow dogs and bait.  Do it for 3 year and see what happens to our ungulate population.  If it works and we see and increase in numbers then continue.  If we don't see an increase then take it back to where it was.  If you want to be a trophy hunter.....get our and hunt harder because this state carries plenty of big bucks.  I think Bone's calendar proves that.   :tup:

Completely agree but also see the side that those who kill any buck contribute to the issue. I don't care about the quality tags anymore for similar reasons. Not saying this is true across the board, but most quality bucks I have seen taken you ask the hunter what he did with the meat and hear something like "I experiment with it a little but give most of it away". I never understood this. Is it because an older quality buck tastes bad? It is because it was only ever about the antlers to begin with? Its shameful.

And I have nothing against trophy hunting. I certainly wouldn't pass on a trophy animal.  But for me at the end of the day its about the meat.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: buckfvr on February 16, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
I enjoy the hunt even when I dont kill anything, so I am against lost opportunity to hunt.  I dont mind hunting my way through some unproductive years so long as I know they are putting forth legitimate effort for improvement.

For those who dont enjoy spending time in the woods without killing something, I understand your willingness to cut YOUR opportunity down, but dont bargain mine away.  Its bad out there, but not bad enough to quit.  Great opportunity for bear, and coyote hunting is always fun........those two animals right there will hone your woods skills.

For sure the good ol days are gone, so up your game and get after it.  More now than ever before, lack of effort makes a camping trip out of your hunt. 
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 01:20:28 PM
108,729 deer hunters in 2018
57,452 elk hunters in 2018
21,068 bear hunters in 2018
Didnt find number of cougar licenses sold

So only 1 out of 5 deer hunters bought a bear license.  And many of those dont even go bear hunting, they buy the tag just incase, same with people who buy cougar tags.  So a small fraction of deer and elk hunters actually hunt predators.  I say if you wont put any effort into addressing the predator problem, you shouldnt be advocating for reducing deer and elk opportunity.  If every deer and elk hunter spent just a couple weekends here and there hunting predators outside of deer and elk seasons it would go a long way.

If youre bothered by our lack of deer and elk, get out there and do something about it instead of asking the state to take away more hunting opportunity.

As hunters we are the ones who manage predators, yet a lot of us arent doing it.  Even if we got hounds, wolf hunting, leg holds, everything, every tool available, it wont do. Damn bit of good if people wont even get out there and try.  Fall bear is 3.5 months long.  Cougar is 4-8 months long.  Coyote is year round.  We should all be able to make a little time, nobody is that busy.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: full choke on February 16, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
108,729 deer hunters in 2018
57,452 elk hunters in 2018
21,068 bear hunters in 2018
Didnt find number of cougar licenses sold

So only 1 out of 5 deer hunters bought a bear license.  And many of those dont even go bear hunting, they buy the tag just incase, same with people who buy cougar tags.  So a small fraction of deer and elk hunters actually hunt predators.  I say if you wont put any effort into addressing the predator problem, you shouldnt be advocating for reducing deer and elk opportunity.  If every deer and elk hunter spent just a couple weekends here and there hunting predators outside of deer and elk seasons it would go a long way.

If youre bothered by our lack of deer and elk, get out there and do something about it instead of asking the state to take away more hunting opportunity.

You are 100% correct.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Jingles on February 16, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
I think I can say that there are some, maybe not as many as there should be, but there are some that if the opportunity presented itself would do some serious incidental predator control. For me as long as it isn't wearing a collar it is a Coyote............. If it is to big to carry out nature will clean it up.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 16, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
108,729 deer hunters in 2018
57,452 elk hunters in 2018
21,068 bear hunters in 2018
Didnt find number of cougar licenses sold
Was the number of bear hunters you quoted the bear tags sold or the number of hunters that filled out the WDFW survey saying they hunted bear?
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: jstone on February 16, 2020, 04:18:53 PM
How many bears killed
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
How many bears killed

1,483 bears
6,559 elk
27,846 deer

Those are 2018 numbers.  Hopefully a good jump in bear harvest for 2019 with our new regs.  Harvest results should be out in a couple months i believe.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: buglebrush on February 16, 2020, 04:44:10 PM
Agree that we really need to collectively up our game on predator hunting.  Washington makes it tougher by requiring people to harvest bear meat, and no OTC spring bear. 

I spent a long day post-holing my way into wolf country yesterday.  Couldn't believe I forgot my snowshoes!  Didn't get into any, but found some tracks from earlier in the week.  I'll be back!
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 16, 2020, 04:58:56 PM
Statistics show Cougars are more of an issue than bears to the ungulates population. We should be more concerned with them
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: Bango skank on February 16, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
Statistics show Cougars are more of an issue than bears to the ungulates population. We should be more concerned with them
  bears are huge predators of fawns and calves, and there are 10 times as many bears as there are cougars.  Plus theyre easier to hunt, season opens a month before cougar, and you can kill 2.  Im not saying dont hunt cougar, im saying that guys can realistically get out and kill 2 bears a year, and make an impact.  The lion thing is harder.  Bear hunting is the easiest way for a guy to help out our herds.  So get out and whack a bear or two in august, then of course try to get a cougar if possible when its open.  But if guys get serious about bear hunting and we get our numbers up we will be saving thousands more fawns and calves each year.  And if we want to see our permit numbers go back up, we need to do whatever we can to protect all those fawns and calves.
Title: Re: Hunting Regulations 2011-2019 show drastic decline in Quality tags
Post by: hunter399 on February 16, 2020, 08:43:23 PM
New to the site, been trolling for some time. Would the hunters support a decrease in the deer and elk permits more than what is currently proposed?

Hunters have taken the cut again and again and again.  If we keep supporting it, it will never stop, they wont address the predator issue.  Weve given up enough, time to focus on the problem.  More predator control is needed, not less hunting opportunity.  I say we shouldnt have to give another inch until proper predator management goes along with it.
So do you support an increase in permits or remain the same where a quality permit isn't really quality?

No matter how many cuts WE take, the herds will not improve until predators are dealt with properly.  So reduce opportunity all you want, but without predator management it still wont be quality, and it will continue getting worse.  Continuing to cut hunter opportunity year after year is not the answer, it wont fix things.

I can tell that your starting to figure out that WDFW is not gonna deal with predator problem .Hunters are gonna hunt what they wanna hunt.Hunters are not gonna fix the predator problem.Most hunters go home right after deer season and don't return till fall .And you know this man.But in the meantime while we fight for better predator seasons and management,you can't deal deer and elk a $h$t sandwich.

On topic
We should just be happy the permits are even still available.I'm not that guy that's gonna get mad about WDFW reducing opportunity for conservation.Along as some opportunity still exists.