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Title: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Landowner on February 19, 2020, 06:52:34 PM
I haven't read all the threads, so this may already exist on the forum somewhere.  Apologies if so. 

WDFW comment period is open on 2020-21 hunting season issues.  Here is link:

  https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/season-setting

Take a close look at the cougar quotas proposals----WDFW tells me they have no collars that work on cougars in the Blue Mountains.  So, what are the quotas based on?  Predators are hammering elk and deer. 

WDFW tells me this comment process is what they rely upon, even as poorly as the proposals are explained by the department. 
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bobcat on February 19, 2020, 09:37:17 PM
Next year will be the big changes, as they'll be setting the 2021-2023 seasons. I haven't seen much in this year's proposals to get excited about.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 19, 2020, 10:31:52 PM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 20, 2020, 05:06:54 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
NOPE
Divide the state for deer hunting as well.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: headshot5 on February 20, 2020, 06:16:37 AM
It would be cool to start a sticky with changes hunting-washington folks propose for the 2021-2023 season.  We end up with a lot of good ideas that fall through the cracks by the time the season setting comes around. 
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 20, 2020, 06:25:19 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
under our current management this is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 20, 2020, 06:58:17 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
NOPE
Divide the state for deer hunting as well.
  :yeah:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 20, 2020, 07:03:14 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
NOPE
Divide the state for deer hunting as well.
Not east/west but choose a species.  :twocents:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 20, 2020, 07:07:20 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
NOPE
Divide the state for deer hunting as well.
Not east/west but choose a species.  :twocents:

Id love to see that happen.  Choose black, mule or white.  They need to greatly reduce the number of deer multi permits too, like down to the level of multi elk permits.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 20, 2020, 07:14:58 AM
Undeviide the state for elk hunting.
NOPE
Divide the state for deer hunting as well.
Not east/west but choose a species.  :twocents:

Id love to see that happen.  Choose black, mule or white.  They need to greatly reduce the number of deer multi permits too, like down to the level of multi elk permits.
Even better! If we aren't gonna set gmu or regional quota's and continue to have otc hunting, we need to better distribute the harvest/pressure.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: trophyhunt on February 20, 2020, 07:22:56 AM
I love all these ideas for restricting us non native hunters, while the rest....................... :bash:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 20, 2020, 07:36:43 AM
I love all these ideas for restricting us non native hunters, while the rest....................... :bash:

I think choosing species tags would really preserve otc hunting in the long run.  A lot of guys want to hunt mule deer, then if they fail its hey, northeast wa has otc "any buck" late whitetail rifle, ill go over there, slam dunk.  Really, theres nothing easier to kill than a yearling whitetail buck during the rut with a rifle.  People are using it as their backup plan easy meat.  Its a vulnerable resource, and with the way the deer numbers are going i expect the late rifle whitetail will end up going to permit only.  Making a person choose a species will alleviate a lot of the whitetail pressure i believe, which would help protect the resource so that hopefully it wont have to go to special permit for the late hunt.  I see it as s way to help retain otc opportunity, not as a restriction.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 20, 2020, 07:41:42 AM
I love all these ideas for restricting us non native hunters, while the rest....................... :bash:
this thread is about proposed changes that WDFW CAN IMPLEMENT.  WDFW has literally ZERO power to restrict tribal harvest. LITERALLY ZERO. So I see no reason to discuss it and derail this current thread. We all hate it but theres nothing that wdfw can do.

Even if we could snap our fingers and make it change right this second and we got dogs and bait back, i would still advocate for the above recommendations. Our deer need BIG help and a free for all season isn't the answer.

Think about this. WA has less habitat, more hunters, and the least amount of deer than any western state but we are the ONLY state with completely unrestricted harvest. How does that make any sense at all :dunno: The answer is it doesn't.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 20, 2020, 07:44:02 AM
Bango's comments actually make alot of sense to me. 

I did see in the proposals that the early desert quality tag would now open on the same day as the general deer season(plus waterfowl).  So much for being a quality experience if you draw that tag.  It should open a week later than the general like it always has. 
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: trophyhunt on February 20, 2020, 07:47:03 AM
I agree with what you both are saying, it makes sense.  I just hate that it needs to be done, and the other issue will never get solved which will ensure more restrictions. (For certain races)
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Why do all other states game management work but this one.Also why are no other states devided for elk.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: millerwheeler on February 20, 2020, 08:07:37 PM
I truelly love It if you had to pick a gmu for deer or elk and when those tags are gone sorry for your luck , and as much as I love the deer  multi season I think they should have way less tags,  and I totally agree with bango on the pick  a species of deer
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 20, 2020, 09:43:00 PM
If there was was public land to hunt in this state that might work.The problem is our public lands are over pressured from hunters tired of paying hunter fees to timber company's.Thats why no hunters are hunting this state.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: millerwheeler on February 20, 2020, 10:23:12 PM
If there was was public land to hunt in this state that might work.The problem is our public lands are over pressured from hunters tired of paying hunter fees to timber company's.Thats why no hunters are hunting this state.

Hmm " if there was public land to hunt in this state might work" ....... then you say there are no hunters in this state ?? There  is lots of land out there to hunt. Problem is the management  In place there's not enough animals , between predators and piss poor managment.  The timber companies I complain about charging also but if you were a business wouldn't you ? That's a whole different subject but predators  are our #1 issue  . I know people will try and say natives /poachers but we know that issue we can't touch predators are #1 it's time for.huge change and its.sad  . I think almost nightly if my boys will get the chance to do any of the wondrous stuff my father has  taught me
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: emac on February 21, 2020, 05:38:35 AM
Bango's comments actually make alot of sense to me. 

I did see in the proposals that the early desert quality tag would now open on the same day as the general deer season(plus waterfowl).  So much for being a quality experience if you draw that tag.  It should open a week later than the general like it always has.
I don't see how that changes much for that unit. Don't think the deer are going be bothered much by the duck hunters and since there is no general deer season in the unit

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 21, 2020, 05:54:18 AM
I wasn't very nice with my comment on a lot of it.
Everything from stop overharvest,do your job,stop giving multiple permits for the same species to one person.No multiseason,No antlerless moose permits,you get the picture.I didn't approve anything.It was neutral,or disapprove.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 21, 2020, 05:56:23 AM
Well you aren't the only one
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 21, 2020, 06:47:49 AM
Why do all other states game management work but this one.Also why are no other states devided for elk.

Other states break them down to units.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 04:50:48 PM
I truelly love It if you had to pick a gmu for deer or elk and when those tags are gone sorry for your luck , and as much as I love the deer  multi season I think they should have way less tags,  and I totally agree with bango on the pick  a species of deer

That would ruin it for those of us that hunt both east and west.

I would rather see weapons restrictions in areas that are over-hunted.

But the main problem is that the WDFW doesn't spend enough time improving habitat.

I've only seen a few areas where they actually planted protein sources.

There are also too many areas that are inaccessible due to overgrowth which encourages hunters to congregate around the same entrances.

The state has plenty of public land, it just isn't managed for much other than logging.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I truelly love It if you had to pick a gmu for deer or elk and when those tags are gone sorry for your luck , and as much as I love the deer  multi season I think they should have way less tags,  and I totally agree with bango on the pick  a species of deer

That would ruin it for those of us that hunt both east and west.

I would rather see weapons restrictions in areas that are over-hunted.

But the main problem is that the WDFW doesn't spend enough time improving habitat.

I've only seen a few areas where they actually planted protein sources.

There are also too many areas that are inaccessible due to overgrowth which encourages hunters to congregate around the same entrances.

The state has plenty of public land, it just isn't managed for hunters. They pretty much just log it and don't care about deer habitat.

Yeah, thats the point.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 05:36:21 PM
Yeah, thats the point.

What is wrong with hunting both east and west? You only get one deer tag.

If you rationed by gmu the state would have to lottery some areas. They would love that.

Which species are you trying to protect here? Mule deer? Just get rid of scoped rifles in GMUs by freeways. No more lucking out by the road.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 23, 2020, 05:52:12 PM
Where is a unit that isn't crisscross with roads.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 05:56:09 PM
Yeah, thats the point.

What is wrong with hunting both east and west? You only get one deer tag.

If you rationed by gmu the state would have to lottery some areas. They would love that.

Which species are you trying to protect here? Mule deer? Just get rid of scoped rifles in GMUs by freeways. No more lucking out by the road.

Whats wrong with it is that everybody that strikes out on mule deer comes over here to do the any buck whitetail rifle hunt because killing a yearling whitetail with a rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel.  Its everybodys backup plan, and it puts too much pressure on the resource that is not doing well.  Choosing a species would go a long way to fixing that.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: follow maggie on February 23, 2020, 05:56:41 PM
If there was was public land to hunt in this state that might work.The problem is our public lands are over pressured from hunters tired of paying hunter fees to timber company's.Thats why no hunters are hunting this state.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. There’s a metric *censored* ton of public land in this state. And it’s not that hard to find areas that aren’t a pumpkin patch. It just takes the willingness and effort to get off the beaten path.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 05:57:38 PM
Not talking all roads.

I'm suggesting a limited weapons zone along highways and freeways in mule deer areas.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:02:34 PM
Multi permits don't sell out reduce the number of hunting day wildlife is over hunted.Bring back the dogs thin out the preditors for the next 3 years.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Multi permits don't sell out reduce the number of hunting day wildlife is over hunted.Bring back the dogs thin out the preditors for the next 3 years.

It would take A hell of a lot longer than 3 years to fix the problem, and wdfw cant just reinstate hound hunting, its state law not wdfw policy.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 06:11:32 PM
Whats wrong with it is that everybody that strikes out on mule deer comes over here to do the any buck whitetail rifle hunt because killing a yearling whitetail with a rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel.  Its everybodys backup plan, and it puts too much pressure on the resource that is not doing well.  Choosing a species would go a long way to fixing that.

I think the problem is that the 100s are too generous in modern and especially late.

It doesn't make sense as to how they manage those units. They lock out muzzleloaders but allow any buck for modern.

Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 06:15:50 PM
Whats wrong with it is that everybody that strikes out on mule deer comes over here to do the any buck whitetail rifle hunt because killing a yearling whitetail with a rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel.  Its everybodys backup plan, and it puts too much pressure on the resource that is not doing well.  Choosing a species would go a long way to fixing that.

I think the problem is that the 100s are too generous in modern and especially late.

It doesn't make sense as to how they manage those units. They lock out muzzleloaders but allow any buck for modern.

I agree with you.  If i had my way it would be pick a species for deer, drastic reduction in multi permits, and 4pt min whitetail.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Make the whole state 3 point or better one week early one week late all user groups season over.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
Special permits apply to either your early or late season pick one or the other.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:24:09 PM
One week in between each season no season for a user group that starts the day after another ends.Also every season starts on a Wednesday give the wildlife a chance .
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 06:26:51 PM
I agree with you.  If i had my way it would be pick a species for deer, drastic reduction in multi permits, and 4pt min whitetail.

I think proposing 3 pt or antlerless for the early 100s makes a lot of sense. I don't think they would go for 4 pt. Definitely with you that yearlings shouldn't be shot for meat.

The really weird thing is that muzzleloaders get packed into 113 for late. And that's after modern has gone in for "any buck" kill fest. I'd really like someone at WDFW to explain this.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
Where's 113 ? WDFW wants your money they have no clue what wildlife or sex each unit holds no game checks no info .
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 06:35:57 PM
I agree with you.  If i had my way it would be pick a species for deer, drastic reduction in multi permits, and 4pt min whitetail.

I think proposing 3 pt or antlerless for the early 100s makes a lot of sense. I don't think they would go for 4 pt. Definitely with you that yearlings shouldn't be shot for meat.

The really weird thing is that muzzleloaders get packed into 113 for late. And that's after modern has gone in for "any buck" kill fest. I'd really like someone at WDFW to explain this.

While i dont like the any buck, i dont really see the late muzzy hunt in 113 as an issue.  Its a small user group, the season is shorter than the late archery seasons in other ne units, and 113 is such a long drive that i bet it discourages a lot of people from going.  113 is the "muzzleloaders unit" and 101 is the "archers unit."  Muzzy hunters dont have much going on other than that one short hunt, and reducing all the multi tags would likely make that one less pressured.  What i really dont understand is, every ne unit has a late hunt after late modern, archery or muzzy, except 111.  Nothing after late modern in 111.  Why doesnt it have a late archery season when 101, 105, 108, 121, and 117 do?  Not having any desire to hunt modern, i wont even waste my time hunting or scouting 111 since theres no late bow season.  I just dont get why there isnt.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bbarnes on February 23, 2020, 06:43:18 PM
Modern an muzzleloader aren't much different as far as equipment just no optics.ive hunted them all and had success.There should be very limited cow ,doe tags given in my opion and certainly no any buck tags except disabled or first year youth tags.If you want to meat hunt buy cattle.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 06:44:42 PM
Modern an muzzleloader aren't much different as far as equipment just no optics.ive hunted them all and had success.There should be very limited cow ,doe tags given in my opion and certainly no any buck tags except disabled or first year youth tags.If you want to meat hunt buy cattle.

Theres already no antlerless for whitetsil in northeast.  And guys cant shoot muzzys 700 yards, its a pretty big difference from mf
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: buckfvr on February 23, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
I agree with you.  If i had my way it would be pick a species for deer, drastic reduction in multi permits, and 4pt min whitetail.

I think proposing 3 pt or antlerless for the early 100s makes a lot of sense. I don't think they would go for 4 pt. Definitely with you that yearlings shouldn't be shot for meat.

The really weird thing is that muzzleloaders get packed into 113 for late. And that's after modern has gone in for "any buck" kill fest. I'd really like someone at WDFW to explain this.

We are talking whitetails here and out of the 8-10 bucks I have around each year there is usually just 1 that you could call a 3 point.  Depending on when the deer are born HERE that I watch, they are usually small 4pts at 18 months (june born) and july to august born will be an even mix of spikes and forks.  NO 3 pts, hardly ever.  4pt rule just like before and were good to go.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 07:37:52 PM
We are talking whitetails here and out of the 8-10 bucks I have around each year there is usually just 1 that you could call a 3 point.  Depending on when the deer are born HERE that I watch, they are usually small 4pts at 18 months (june born) and july to august born will be an even mix of spikes and forks.  NO 3 pts, hardly ever.  4pt rule just like before and were good to go.

I get that but as a proposal to the state I think 3 makes more sense unless you got them to change all 3 pt areas to 4.

It's mostly a perception issue.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 07:41:14 PM
We are talking whitetails here and out of the 8-10 bucks I have around each year there is usually just 1 that you could call a 3 point.  Depending on when the deer are born HERE that I watch, they are usually small 4pts at 18 months (june born) and july to august born will be an even mix of spikes and forks.  NO 3 pts, hardly ever.  4pt rule just like before and were good to go.

I get that but as a proposal to the state I think 3 makes more sense unless you got them to change all 3 pt areas to 4.

It's mostly a perception issue.

I want the 4pt, but a 3pt min would still be better than any buck.  Not a lot better, but still.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 07:52:01 PM
While i dont like the any buck, i dont really see the late muzzy hunt in 113 as an issue.  Its a small user group, the season is shorter than the late archery seasons in other ne units, and 113 is such a long drive that i bet it discourages a lot of people from going.  113 is the "muzzleloaders unit" and 101 is the "archers unit." 

The issue is that early muzzle is short and their late follows modern but only in one unit that isn't exclusive to them. Modern has too much of an advantage in that area. If I did muzzle exclusively in the 100s I would buy a modern tag. That's how unbalanced it is.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 07:55:20 PM
People will argue about aprs, but i think we can all agree that our deer are too pressured.  So its crazy to have so many multi season permits that theyre essentially otc.  They need to be cut WAY back.  Its just a giant money grab that takes no account of the additional pressure it causes. 
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 07:58:13 PM
While i dont like the any buck, i dont really see the late muzzy hunt in 113 as an issue.  Its a small user group, the season is shorter than the late archery seasons in other ne units, and 113 is such a long drive that i bet it discourages a lot of people from going.  113 is the "muzzleloaders unit" and 101 is the "archers unit." 

The issue is that early muzzle is short and their late follows modern but only in one unit that isn't exclusive to them. Modern has too much of an advantage in that area. If I did muzzle exclusively in the 100s I would buy a modern tag. That's how unbalanced it is.

If they had late muzz in more units theyd need to take away late arch hunts, and the fact is archery is a bigger user group than muzzy.  But since 111 is the only ne unit without late arch or muzzy, why dont they give 111 a late muzzy like 113?  It wouldnt cut into any pre existing seasons and it would spread muzzy pressure between 2 good units instead of packing it all into 1.  Seems like a reasonable idea to me.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 23, 2020, 08:08:08 PM
Giving more user groups more seasons is good .But at the end of the day it's modern that's killing NE WASHINGTON.I say that cause I'm a modern firearm Hunter.They won't admit that the 4pt min help deer populations here even though the two years it ended where record harvest for these units.Everyone I have talked to at WDFW is just one excuse after another.Reason after Reason not to bring it back
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 08:08:42 PM
Modern an muzzleloader aren't much different as far as equipment just no optics.ive hunted them all and had success.There should be very limited cow ,doe tags given in my opion and certainly no any buck tags except disabled or first year youth tags.If you want to meat hunt buy cattle.

Optics are huge advantage. Not just for range but being able to see a deer in the thicket. Scopes also give you more hunting time in low light.

Sabots also drop from the sky a lot faster. Even if you had a scope on one a $250 Savage 308 will easily outrange it.

Muzzleloaders can also go click. Technically so can rifles but it is rare with quality ammo and you can quickly cycle a new round.

People make shots all the time in Eastern Wa that they could never do with a muzzleloader. Nothing wrong with that but muzzleloader should get better access because of the disadvantage. In thick Westside though it can make less of a difference.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 08:21:12 PM
If they had late muzz in more units theyd need to take away late arch hunts, and the fact is archery is a bigger user group than muzzy.  But since 111 is the only ne unit without late arch or muzzy, why dont they give 111 a late muzzy like 113?  It wouldnt cut into any pre existing seasons and it would spread muzzy pressure between 2 good units instead of packing it all into 1.  Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

I'd be fine with them keeping muzzle to 113 if they didn't let modern run through it.

I think they should also overlap a late archery unit.

But what you were saying about any buck is probably the best solution.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 08:27:19 PM
If they had late muzz in more units theyd need to take away late arch hunts, and the fact is archery is a bigger user group than muzzy.  But since 111 is the only ne unit without late arch or muzzy, why dont they give 111 a late muzzy like 113?  It wouldnt cut into any pre existing seasons and it would spread muzzy pressure between 2 good units instead of packing it all into 1.  Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

I'd be fine with them keeping muzzle to 113 if they didn't let modern run through it.

I think they should also overlap a late archery unit.

But what you were saying about any buck is probably the best solution.

Taking away late modern in 113 and extending the late muzzy a bit would make it like the muzzy version of 101, which has no late mf, but an extended late archery.  Not necessarily a bad idea.  I see no reason for late muzzy to overlap late archery though, especially with that time slot being wide open in 111.  Seems like it should be no big deal to set 111 up the way 113 is currently set.  113s totsl harvest, all weapons, is a fraction of just the mf harvest in 121 or 113.  I really dont think the nov 25- dec 8th late muzzy in 113 is a problem, even with a late mf season. Are muzzleloaders a bit more effective than bows?  Yeah, but the muzzy season there is shorter than the late archery seasons in other units to compensate for that.  No reason they cant have both late mf and late muzzy, especially if they got rid of multi season permits that are basically otc, and the "any buck" rule.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 08:38:44 PM
Taking away late modern in 113 and extending the late muzzy a bit would make it like the muzzy version of 101, which has no late mf, but an extended late archery.  Not necessarily a bad idea.  I see no reason for late muzzy to overlap late archery though, especially with that time slot being wide open in 111.  Seems like it should be no big deal to set 111 up the way 113 is currently set.

I was suggesting letting muzzleloader overlap in a gmu with archery so they get access to more than one unit. Take away an any buck unit from archery and make it a 3 pt min or antlerless for both groups.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 08:40:58 PM
Taking away late modern in 113 and extending the late muzzy a bit would make it like the muzzy version of 101, which has no late mf, but an extended late archery.  Not necessarily a bad idea.  I see no reason for late muzzy to overlap late archery though, especially with that time slot being wide open in 111.  Seems like it should be no big deal to set 111 up the way 113 is currently set.

I was suggesting letting muzzleloader overlap in a gmu with archery so they get access to more than one unit. Take away an any buck unit from archery and make it a 3 pt min or antlerless for both groups.

Why would muzzy need to overlap archery to give muzzy access to more than one unit?  As i pointed out, 111 has neither late archery nor muzzleloader, that time slot is open.  So seems like a no brainer to me, add late muzzy to 111 and there ya go, another unit for late muzzy without it overlapping any late archery.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 23, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
If they had late muzz in more units theyd need to take away late arch hunts, and the fact is archery is a bigger user group than muzzy.  But since 111 is the only ne unit without late arch or muzzy, why dont they give 111 a late muzzy like 113?  It wouldnt cut into any pre existing seasons and it would spread muzzy pressure between 2 good units instead of packing it all into 1.  Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

I'd be fine with them keeping muzzle to 113 if they didn't let modern run through it.

I think they should also overlap a late archery unit.

But what you were saying about any buck is probably the best solution.

Taking away late modern in 113 and extending the late muzzy a bit would make it like the muzzy version of 101, which has no late mf, but an extended late archery.  Not necessarily a bad idea.  I see no reason for late muzzy to overlap late archery though, especially with that time slot being wide open in 111.  Seems like it should be no big deal to set 111 up the way 113 is currently set.  113s totsl harvest, all weapons, is a fraction of just the mf harvest in 121 or 113.  I really dont think the nov 25- dec 8th late muzzy in 113 is a problem, even with a late mf season. Are muzzleloaders a bit more effective than bows?  Yeah, but the muzzy season there is shorter than the late archery seasons in other units to compensate for that.  No reason they cant have both late mf and late muzzy, especially if they got rid of multi season permits that are basically otc, and the "any buck" rule.

In till other changes are made I couldn't get on board .
Basicly you take away multiseason tags, then I don't have a problem extending muzzy or archery oppertunity but till then I say no way.Along with APR for modern firearm.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 23, 2020, 08:43:11 PM
Taking away late modern in 113 and extending the late muzzy a bit would make it like the muzzy version of 101, which has no late mf, but an extended late archery.  Not necessarily a bad idea.  I see no reason for late muzzy to overlap late archery though, especially with that time slot being wide open in 111.  Seems like it should be no big deal to set 111 up the way 113 is currently set.

I was suggesting letting muzzleloader overlap in a gmu with archery so they get access to more than one unit. Take away an any buck unit from archery and make it a 3 pt min or antlerless for both groups.

Absolutely not.  We just got rid of ALL antlerless whitetail harvest in the NE last year, even special permit, youth, disabled and senior, and for good reason.  I dont know how much time you spend here, but we absolutely shouldnt have any antlerless whatsoever.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: millerwheeler on February 23, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
I truelly love It if you had to pick a gmu for deer or elk and when those tags are gone sorry for your luck , and as much as I love the deer  multi season I think they should have way less tags,  and I totally agree with bango on the pick  a species of deer

That would ruin it for those of us that hunt both east and west.

I would rather see weapons restrictions in areas that are over-hunted.

But the main problem is that the WDFW doesn't spend enough time improving habitat.

I've only seen a few areas where they actually planted protein sources.

There are also too many areas that are inaccessible due to overgrowth which encourages hunters to congregate around the same entrances.

The state has plenty of public land, it just isn't managed for much other than logging.

I hunt east and west and that was my point  think its time for change
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: huntnnw on February 23, 2020, 10:34:39 PM
there needs to be a complete overhaul on the management and the way tags are given out and hunt areas regulated for hunters and big game numbers. This state is so far behind the ball  its always to late when they finally do something that a lot of us hunters are seeing and screaming to fix.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 10:54:08 PM
Absolutely not.  We just got rid of ALL antlerless whitetail harvest in the NE last year, even special permit, youth, disabled and senior, and for good reason.  I dont know how much time you spend here, but we absolutely shouldnt have any antlerless whatsoever.

Well I guess we disagree here.

I just don't buy that antlerless is a problem when it is left to archery and muzzleloader.

I still haven't met a west sider that runs over there to kill a doe during archery.

I'd bet that more does are taken through special tags in that area. Haven't looked into it in a while but I remember that 124 had quite a few doe tags for modern.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: huntnnw on February 23, 2020, 10:58:41 PM
the deer herds in NE WA are a fraction of what they were. The ag areas in some areas do have quite a few does, the problem is the public land where alot of it is in the mountains away from ag and that is where the deer numbers have been wiped out
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 23, 2020, 11:11:37 PM
I hunt east and west and that was my point  think its time for change

I also hunt east and west but I think we are in a slim minority.

The multi-season deer isn't like multi-season elk. They usually end up with otc tags for deer. 

I just don't see picking a side changing much for deer.

The bigger problem I see is that the state doesn't care about improving deer habitat. They will log an area and then won't plant protein sources for the deer in the clearings. They will leave a bunch of scrap and let salal or blackberries grow in.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 24, 2020, 01:19:00 AM
the deer herds in NE WA are a fraction of what they were. The ag areas in some areas do have quite a few does, the problem is the public land where alot of it is in the mountains away from ag and that is where the deer numbers have been wiped out
This is spot on ,deer counts need to be done on public ground. Not ag fields.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: hunter399 on February 24, 2020, 01:23:41 AM
I hunt east and west and that was my point  think its time for change

I also hunt east and west but I think we are in a slim minority.

The multi-season deer isn't like multi-season elk. They usually end up with otc tags for deer. 

I just don't see picking a side changing much for deer.

The bigger problem I see is that the state doesn't care about improving deer habitat. They will log an area and then won't plant protein sources for the deer in the clearings. They will leave a bunch of scrap and let salal or blackberries grow in.
I don't know what truck you guys fell off of.But Friday before Saturday opener ,bumper to bump rv,four wheeler,people from the west side hit the east side it makes up a least 50 % of the hunters over here opening mourning

It's not the state craping out the habitat ,it's the spraying done after the clear cut , So now there's know cover or food there.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 02:24:26 AM
Absolutely not.  We just got rid of ALL antlerless whitetail harvest in the NE last year, even special permit, youth, disabled and senior, and for good reason.  I dont know how much time you spend here, but we absolutely shouldnt have any antlerless whatsoever.

Well I guess we disagree here.

I just don't buy that antlerless is a problem when it is left to archery and muzzleloader.

I still haven't met a west sider that runs over there to kill a doe during archery.

I'd bet that more does are taken through special tags in that area. Haven't looked into it in a while but I remember that 124 had quite a few doe tags for modern.

124 is not a northeast unit.  101-121 are northeast units, and there are no antlerless tags available as of the 2019 season, not even via special permit.  Even the colville river second deer permit, which was to address deer vehicle collisions, was removed because there just arent enough deer for that to be a safety issue anymore. And whether its locals or westsiders that were killing does is irrelevant, the point is our whitetail numbers are WAY down, weve been below objective for like 8 years, and whether you buy it or not is irrelevant, we cant support antlerless harvest with the current state of our herd.

Region 1 (101-121) had 823 antlerless deer harvested (reported, so likely more) in 2018 on general tags. And combined with special permits 949 total does harvested (reported.) So your bet that more does are harvested on special permits is way off, you lose that bet.  823 does on general tags vs 126 does on special permits. 

We cant support having 1000 does harvested in a year in northeast washington, thats madness.  Thats why we abolished all doe hunting in region 1 in 2019.  Our numbers are down so low we need every doe we have.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: huntnnw on February 24, 2020, 02:35:57 AM
 :yeah: there shouldn't be any antler-less harvest right now in those units. Id be on board for no muzzy or archery antlerless harvest. They could also implement a  rule like Idaho does and designate doe harvest within 1 mile of ag.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 02:43:02 AM
:yeah: there shouldn't be any antler-less harvest right now in those units. Id be on board for no muzzy or archery antlerless harvest. They could also implement a  rule like Idaho does and designate doe harvest within 1 mile of ag.

Thats already in place
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: huntnnw on February 24, 2020, 03:06:56 AM
guess its been awhile since I looked :chuckle:. I dont shoot does.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 24, 2020, 05:41:08 AM
Just spikes :chuckle:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 05:57:02 AM
Just spikes :chuckle:

Nah, he gets a nice forky now and then
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 24, 2020, 06:20:34 AM
Yea it sounds like he likes that young tender meat.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 24, 2020, 09:51:35 AM
Region 1 (101-121) had 823 antlerless deer harvested (reported, so likely more) in 2018 on general tags. And combined with special permits 949 total does harvested (reported.) So your bet that more does are harvested on special permits is way off, you lose that bet.  823 does on general tags vs 126 does on special permits. 

Well I was making my bet based on 2019 regulations.

Anyways even if 124 isn't technically in the same area it still borders 117 and 121. So you have an area that could be growing bigger bucks but is any deer for a lot of groups.

Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 24, 2020, 10:03:08 AM
I don't know what truck you guys fell off of.But Friday before Saturday opener ,bumper to bump rv,four wheeler,people from the west side hit the east side it makes up a least 50 % of the hunters over here opening mourning

It's not the state craping out the habitat ,it's the spraying done after the clear cut , So now there's know cover or food there.

How do you know they are all westside? There are areas all over the state that are crowded weekend opener for modern. I don't see how making people pick east or west would change that. Multi-season deer hunters are a small group and their success rate is still under 50%.

Anyways in other states they will plant huge sections of grain for the deer. With our state they just clear and leave scrap piles and salal.

Other states spend a lot more time and resources making sure the deer have adequate protein sources. With WA they have this attitude of "deer r fine" and move onto the next logging area.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 10:03:42 AM
Region 1 (101-121) had 823 antlerless deer harvested (reported, so likely more) in 2018 on general tags. And combined with special permits 949 total does harvested (reported.) So your bet that more does are harvested on special permits is way off, you lose that bet.  823 does on general tags vs 126 does on special permits. 

Well I was making my bet based on 2019 regulations.

Anyways even if 124 isn't technically in the same area it still borders 117 and 121. So you have an area that could be growing bigger bucks but is any deer for a lot of groups.

There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Your argument is that they should have antlerless otc for archery and muzzy because you think that special permits account for more doe harvest than otc arch and muzzy, but all you have to do is look at the 2018 harvest reports (the last year we had antlerless hunts) to see thst your assumption is incorrect.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: bearpaw on February 24, 2020, 10:09:39 AM
Last night before dark the wife and I made a drive where normally I expect to see 75 to 200 deer, we saw only 25 deer. I'm hoping that number is different the next time I make the same check!  :bash:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 10:10:38 AM
Last night before dark the wife and I made a drive where normally I expect to see 75 to 200 deer, we saw only 25 deer. I'm hoping that number is different the next time I make the same check!  :bash:

It will be different.  Next time youll see 15 instead of 25.   :sry:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: buckfvr on February 24, 2020, 10:11:21 AM
124 is the way it is because inland empire timber company has tremendous influence with wdfw and if they could have it their way thered be no ungulates on their property.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 24, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Well I don't apply for antlerless but I have heard of people going over to 124 for youth or disabled modern. In fact I think it's a really bad idea to have a single area like 124 be any deer for so many groups because of border cheating.

Anyways back to the main point which is that I don't think archers would go for something like 4 pt min without adding antlerless in at least some areas.

Personally I'd be fine with getting rid of any buck everywhere but I think there would be pushback unless you gave them something in return.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 02:56:16 PM
There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Well I don't apply for antlerless but I have heard of people going over to 124 for youth or disabled modern. In fact I think it's a really bad idea to have a single area like 124 be any deer for so many groups because of border cheating.

Anyways back to the main point which is that I don't think archers would go for something like 4 pt min without adding antlerless in at least some areas.

Personally I'd be fine with getting rid of any buck everywhere but I think there would be pushback unless you gave them something in return.

Most peopl ed who live here, and everybody that i know, wants the 4pt min back, but not just in 121 and 117, everybody wants it regionwide.  The guys who live here saw how beneficial it was when we had it for 4 years in 121 and 117.  Its pretty universally supported by stevens, ferry and pend orielle county residents.  Its mostly out of towners who oppose it, the same guys ive talked about that if they strike out during muley season, they want to be able to come over during the rut and shoot the first little yearling they see.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Special T on February 24, 2020, 03:00:00 PM
There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Well I don't apply for antlerless but I have heard of people going over to 124 for youth or disabled modern. In fact I think it's a really bad idea to have a single area like 124 be any deer for so many groups because of border cheating.

Anyways back to the main point which is that I don't think archers would go for something like 4 pt min without adding antlerless in at least some areas.

Personally I'd be fine with getting rid of any buck everywhere but I think there would be pushback unless you gave them something in return.

Most peopl ed who live here, and everybody that i know, wants the 4pt min back, but not just in 121 and 117, everybody wants it regionwide.  The guys who live here saw how beneficial it was when we had it for 4 years in 121 and 117.  Its pretty universally supported by stevens, ferry and pend orielle county residents.  Its mostly out of towners who oppose it, the same guys ive talked about that if they strike out during muley season, they want to be able to come over during the rut and shoot the first little yearling they see.

If it were me I would be pushing for increased quotas on cats. You of all folks know how many there are around so unless you want to be left chasing your tail... I think that is the point the needs driving home with the department.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 03:06:40 PM
There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Well I don't apply for antlerless but I have heard of people going over to 124 for youth or disabled modern. In fact I think it's a really bad idea to have a single area like 124 be any deer for so many groups because of border cheating.

Anyways back to the main point which is that I don't think archers would go for something like 4 pt min without adding antlerless in at least some areas.

Personally I'd be fine with getting rid of any buck everywhere but I think there would be pushback unless you gave them something in return.

Most peopl ed who live here, and everybody that i know, wants the 4pt min back, but not just in 121 and 117, everybody wants it regionwide.  The guys who live here saw how beneficial it was when we had it for 4 years in 121 and 117.  Its pretty universally supported by stevens, ferry and pend orielle county residents.  Its mostly out of towners who oppose it, the same guys ive talked about that if they strike out during muley season, they want to be able to come over during the rut and shoot the first little yearling they see.

If it were me I would be pushing for increased quotas on cats. You of all folks know how many there are around so unless you want to be left chasing your tail... I think that is the point the needs driving home with the department.

Yeah, that is being pushed for, and hss been for some time.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Special T on February 24, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
There is absolutely no antlerless whitetail harvest of any sort whatsoever in ne wa 2019.  No special permits, no general, no disabled, youth or senior.  Nothing.

Well I don't apply for antlerless but I have heard of people going over to 124 for youth or disabled modern. In fact I think it's a really bad idea to have a single area like 124 be any deer for so many groups because of border cheating.

Anyways back to the main point which is that I don't think archers would go for something like 4 pt min without adding antlerless in at least some areas.

Personally I'd be fine with getting rid of any buck everywhere but I think there would be pushback unless you gave them something in return.

Most peopl ed who live here, and everybody that i know, wants the 4pt min back, but not just in 121 and 117, everybody wants it regionwide.  The guys who live here saw how beneficial it was when we had it for 4 years in 121 and 117.  Its pretty universally supported by stevens, ferry and pend orielle county residents.  Its mostly out of towners who oppose it, the same guys ive talked about that if they strike out during muley season, they want to be able to come over during the rut and shoot the first little yearling they see.

If it were me I would be pushing for increased quotas on cats. You of all folks know how many there are around so unless you want to be left chasing your tail... I think that is the point the needs driving home with the department.

Yeah, that is being pushed for, and hss been for some time.

I guess my point is, that if you throw in a change up it provides another variable in the data that can be used to dismiss the problems with predators. I dont hunt that area, but IMO 4 point only meas there will be more small deer to feed the predators.  :twocents: :twocents:
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: Bango skank on February 24, 2020, 03:18:58 PM
Well i dont think allowing mf rut any buck slaughter of yearlings is the answer.  2018 harvest reports, of people who actually completed reports, 1993 bucks killed that would be sub legal under 4pt apr.  So 3000+ yearling bucks and does that year.  And even after hunters killing all those, the lions are still going to be killing deer.  But im not going to get into a pissing match of why aprs are good or bad, weve all hashed that out before, and nobody changes anybodys minds.
Title: Re: 2020-21 Hunting Season Comments to WDFW
Post by: konradcountry on February 25, 2020, 08:36:52 PM
I guess my point is, that if you throw in a change up it provides another variable in the data that can be used to dismiss the problems with predators. I dont hunt that area, but IMO 4 point only meas there will be more small deer to feed the predators.  :twocents: :twocents:

The cougars don't care about how big the deer are. They will sit in a tree and jump on any deer that walks by. The bigger cats will go after elk and even moose.



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