Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: h20hunter on March 29, 2020, 06:07:53 PM

Title: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: h20hunter on March 29, 2020, 06:07:53 PM
Here's the deal. A guy I know.....a good friend.....doesn't know nada about ar's. I know little more when it comes down to it. He knows his way around salmon, prawns, some 'butt.....and a few dive bars in Sitka. Since it's established he knows jack about scary blacks guns he needs his hand held. Knowing he hunts deer, but tromps grizz territory and would likely find himself with the possibility of snacking a blackie......what should he do for an upper on a S&W M&P, AR 15 Scout 2.

What uppers with mags are plug and play? Heavy bullets vs smaller and faster copper penetrators like barnes? Suggestions should revolve around commercially available ammo. What, if you were a boat capt would you do to have the best bang for your buck/bear so to speak?
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Dan-o on March 29, 2020, 06:41:36 PM


If i was worried about bears, 458 SOCOM is the ballistic equivalent of a 45/70, and you can do it in AR-15.
a semi-auto "45/70" would be fairly potent.


If I wanted to reach out a bit for a Sitka Blacktail, I'd go 6.5 Grendel.  20" barrels, or longer, are available fairly inexpensively for ARs.

Commercial ammo is available for both.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Caseknife on March 29, 2020, 06:43:08 PM
450 Bushmaster has quite a thump.  I shoot the 250 gr Barnes XPB at 2200fps, don't think you can get solid copper in factory loads.  Do need to put a different follower in the pmag, other than that it is plug and play.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: ctwiggs1 on March 29, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
You can pop a 458 upper on to an AR lower?  I’ve got a finished lower I never did anything with... that could be fun.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: CP on March 29, 2020, 07:00:28 PM
He can find what he needs here

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: dreadi on March 29, 2020, 07:03:08 PM
You can pop a 458 upper on to an AR lower?  I’ve got a finished lower I never did anything with... that could be fun.
Yes, you can. And if you’re within range with the right load, even take a bull.

I agree with Dan-o.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 29, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
450 bushmaster all day long.
Underwood ammo has some sold copper options that would have no problem smoking a grizz if needed. Also great for close range blacktails! 200 and under would be my choice.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on March 29, 2020, 07:22:01 PM
You can pop a 458 upper on to an AR lower?  I’ve got a finished lower I never did anything with... that could be fun.

Absolutely!! I believe it even uses 5.56 mags, extra bonus.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 29, 2020, 07:51:47 PM
This sounds like a really cool guy!   :chuckle:

As a bit more info, I think your friend probably won't have a shot over 150 yards while calling blacktails in the jungle during the rut.  Later in the season, he'd probably like to switch back to 223 for beach hunting after the bears have gone to bed.  Those can be longer shots at times.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: grundy53 on March 29, 2020, 07:56:55 PM
.450 Bushmaster, .458 Socom, or .50 Beowulf. One note if you reload, the Bushmaster takes .452 bullets whereas the Socom takes .458

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: grundy53 on March 29, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
I have a .450 bushmaster and would be comfortable with it in bear country.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Blacklab on March 30, 2020, 08:21:36 AM


If i was worried about bears, 458 SOCOM is the ballistic equivalent of a 45/70, and you can do it in AR-15.
a semi-auto "45/70" would be fairly potent.


If I wanted to reach out a bit for a Sitka Blacktail, I'd go 6.5 Grendel.  20" barrels, or longer, are available fairly inexpensively for ARs.

Commercial ammo is available for both.

Exactly what my  :twocents: would give 😉🥃🇺🇸
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Yondering on March 30, 2020, 10:46:25 PM
He can find what he needs here

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346

Sure, if you want the cheapest junk possible that may or may not work well.

Guys, if you're just starting out with an AR and don't know much about them or how to tell if your parts are built right, don't buy cheap junk like Bear Creek. You don't have to go high end like Daniel Defense, but at least stick with something middle of the road that has a reasonable reputation for working well.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on March 30, 2020, 10:50:47 PM
He can find what he needs here

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346

Sure, if you want the cheapest junk possible that may or may not work well.

Guys, if you're just starting out with an AR and don't know much about them or how to tell if your parts are built right, don't buy cheap junk like Bear Creek. You don't have to go high end like Daniel Defense, but at least stick with something middle of the road that has a reasonable reputation for working well.

PSA? I’m a novice here, too.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: dreadi on March 30, 2020, 11:34:02 PM
You can pop a 458 upper on to an AR lower?  I’ve got a finished lower I never did anything with... that could be fun.

Absolutely!! I believe it even uses 5.56 mags, extra bonus.
They do. Some people swear by using followers designed for the caliber and/or Lancer mags only. However, factory 20rd 5.56 Colt mags and regular 30rd 5.56 Pmags have been all I’ve tried out and they all have worked without any modifications.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: konradcountry on March 31, 2020, 09:37:32 AM
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: CastleRocker on March 31, 2020, 09:48:19 AM
I'm definitely NOT an expert on AR's, but I've had quite a few of them.  First and foremost, I know for a fact that a 223/556 (with proper bullet placement) will kill every animal that lives on Kodiak Island, and one Caribou that was over on the mainland.  They all fell to a stainless mini-14, not and AR, but I think it should still count.

I've had uppers in 17 Rem, 20 Practical, 223/556, 22-250, 6mm AR, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 DTI, and all three WSSM's.  The 22-250 is a complete rifle, as Olympic made an AR-15 lower with a longer mag well to accommodate that round.  Still my favorite, even though I only could afford one magazine. 

Always wanted to try a 450 Bushmaster, just because ammo is most readily available among the three big bores.  I just never could find an actual "need" for one.  I think it would be an excellent boat gun...not that your friend would have it on a boat. 
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: ctwiggs1 on March 31, 2020, 09:48:54 AM
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.

I don't think he's hunting bear.

I think he's more concerned about having something he can swing quickly on a charging brown.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: jasnt on March 31, 2020, 10:02:13 AM
Pretty tough to beat a shogun with slugs for charging brown bear
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 31, 2020, 10:43:18 AM
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 11:15:50 AM
Great discussion guys. 

Pretty tough to beat a shogun with slugs for charging brown bear

I have a 12ga pump gun when I'm just hiking or going to shore in grizzly country outside of deer season.  It holds 5+1, is my primary boat gun, and the one I give to my crew when they go ashore as well.  We also shoot clay pigeons of the back of the boat frequently at the end of trips on our way back into town.  Most useful gun I have.

For calling blacktails in the rut, though, the shots across the muskeg can be a bit longer than I'm comfortable taking with an 18"  barreled shotgun.  Probably 100 yards, 200 absolute max. So a rifle is required.

When calling blacktails in Oct and Nov on Baranof Island, though, there's the coastal browns you gotta deal with.  It doesn't happen every time, but often enough they sneak up on hunters calling.  The blacktail calls we use are a high pitched bleat, sounding like a fawn distress.  Most guys that hunt long enough up here have had an encounter like that.  If the pink salmon runs are poor like they were a few years ago, it gets really bad.

So when I'm in the brush on the edge of muskeg calling blacktail, I want something that can reach 200 yards, a bit more substantial than the 223, and faster shooting than my bolt guns.

After the bears go to bed and I'm beach hunting, it's back to the 223 or my 25-06.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 11:24:49 AM
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.

I don't think he's hunting bear.

I think he's more concerned about having something he can swing quickly on a charging brown.

Basically, this.  I'm calling small island blacktails in thick brushy terrain, but might be bringing in an apex predator with a bad attitude. 
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 11:37:36 AM
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:

I'm probably overthinking it. Had a few guys in the know say just get the 6.5 upper for it's all-around capabilities and feel good about having multiple rounds of that for bear defence.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 31, 2020, 11:55:17 AM
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:

I'm probably overthinking it. Had a few guys in the know say just get the 6.5 upper for it's all-around capabilities and feel good about having multiple rounds of that for bear defence.


My ONLY beef with the 6.5 is the mags themselves.  Whatever mags you end up buying, you should probably do a mag dump (most of the repurposed .220 30 round mags hold like 25 or something Grendel rounds).  Get some grendel wolf ammo and mag dump with whatever mag you want to use so that you can ensure it wont jam when you need it.  Some of my cheaper grendel mags got a bit sticky when I loaded them past about half way.  I've had pretty good luck with the alexander arms ones.

Also, personally I wouldn't go longer than an 18" barrel.  Its plenty, and more than that becomes a burden.  I'm also increasingly a fan of a super short hand guard with an exposed gas tube.  Really helps keep weight down, those gas tubes are more robust than you think.

Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: konradcountry on March 31, 2020, 11:58:31 AM
Basically, this.  I'm calling small island blacktails in thick brushy terrain, but might be bringing in an apex predator with a bad attitude.

Ok I took "possibility of snacking a blackie" to mean looking for black bear and deer at the same time.

I'd probably just go Blackout. If it is thick terrain I wouldn't spend the extra money on Grendel. You can find much better deals for quality Blackout uppers.

Get the PMAG in 300 and load it up. Each shot at a grizz would have more power than a 44 mag. So no problem.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 12:05:16 PM
Roger.  I may encounter black bears at some point, but they do not co-exist with brown bears in these islands.  An island is either a black bear or a grizzly island.  Calling blacktails on a black bear islands doesn't give me the heebie jeebies like it does on a grizzly island.  I'd be totally fine with my 25-06 on a black bear island.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: konradcountry on March 31, 2020, 12:08:05 PM
Also, personally I wouldn't go longer than an 18" barrel.  Its plenty, and more than that becomes a burden.  I'm also increasingly a fan of a super short hand guard with an exposed gas tube.  Really helps keep weight down, those gas tubes are more robust than you think.

I'm in the same camp. I think ARs lose their appeal when you load them with too much weight or go past 18".

I like a 16" with a 12" handguard.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: konradcountry on March 31, 2020, 12:32:41 PM
These are some really nice uppers with a quality barrel:
https://www.at3tactical.com/products/at3-ff-ml-16-inch-300-blk-complete-upper-300-aac-blackout-16-inch-ballistic-advantage-barrel-15-m-lok-free-float-handguard

Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: h20hunter on March 31, 2020, 12:37:49 PM
25-06 perfect little pill for sitka deer. In a brownie I want my 460 Mag.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Angry Perch on March 31, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
C'mon Skillet, not you too. Those things are hideous!
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 01:43:11 PM
C'mon Skillet, not you too. Those things are hideous!

I'm gonna get a wood stock and leather fringe for it like that sweet 1895 SBL on here a little while ago.  I think there's also a rail-mount saddle ring available.  You won't even know.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Bango skank on March 31, 2020, 01:46:32 PM
Dont forget a blued octagon barrel
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 31, 2020, 02:09:18 PM
Also, don't be afraid to buy your own pieces... With an AR tool, a vice block, a hammer, a set of punches and a torque wrench you can pretty easily assemble your own upper.  Best way to get some quality parts where you care (barrel) and some cheap parts where you don't (gas tube, handguard, etc) is to buy the pieces on your own.

The only pieces that are caliber specific are the barrel, mags and bolt face.  Everything else is the same.

Nice barrel and nice trigger are about the only pieces that actually matter to me.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Dan-o on March 31, 2020, 02:22:22 PM
C'mon Skillet, not you too. Those things are hideous!

I'm gonna get a wood stock and leather fringe for it like that sweet 1895 SBL on here a little while ago.  I think there's also a rail-mount saddle ring available.  You won't even know.

Welcome to the dark side.........

Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 02:34:01 PM
C'mon Skillet, not you too. Those things are hideous!

I'm gonna get a wood stock and leather fringe for it like that sweet 1895 SBL on here a little while ago.  I think there's also a rail-mount saddle ring available.  You won't even know.

Welcome to the dark side.........

I blame both you and H20 equally here.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Angry Perch on March 31, 2020, 02:39:50 PM
Gonna mount a little turret in the bow of the Lil?
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 31, 2020, 03:14:42 PM
Well if this said person is in the market. He has a friend in the firearm industry that has provided a few firearms to him already. I am sure this person could probably help him find some parts or a upper for said build. Bonus is this friend loves crunchy tuna and fish from said person :chuckle:
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Yondering on March 31, 2020, 08:21:01 PM
He can find what he needs here

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/upper-assemblies?spec_caliber=346

Sure, if you want the cheapest junk possible that may or may not work well.

Guys, if you're just starting out with an AR and don't know much about them or how to tell if your parts are built right, don't buy cheap junk like Bear Creek. You don't have to go high end like Daniel Defense, but at least stick with something middle of the road that has a reasonable reputation for working well.

PSA? I’m a novice here, too.

The PSA stuff is mostly OK parts, but they don't always do a good job with assembly. I don't mind that for myself, since I'm willing to tear them down and assemble them right, but if you're looking for something ready to go out of the box aim a little higher; I'd consider something from BCM if I wasn't building my own. On the PSA stuff (both uppers and lowers), I have found several things they've left loose on assemblies I've bought; most notably the buffer tube & nut in the lower, and the barrel nut in the upper.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 08:27:10 PM
Gonna mount a little turret in the bow of the Lil?

The SECOND commercial whaling is allowed again, I'll be ready.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2020, 08:29:05 PM
Well if this said person is in the market. He has a friend in the firearm industry that has provided a few firearms to him already. I am sure this person could probably help him find some parts or a upper for said build. Bonus is this friend loves crunchy tuna and fish from said person :chuckle:

Roger that!  It might be an interesting project to build a gun only on trading fish.  I'm into this for some coho, prawns and halibut so far...
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 31, 2020, 08:47:04 PM
I’m down! Make it rain tuna loins lol

If you decide on a 6.5 Grendel. I might have a like new upper I could trade off as well  :tup:
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Caseknife on April 09, 2020, 08:17:57 AM
Here is a picture of the 275 XPB Barnes, which is the bullet they produce for the 460 Mag, shot out of a Ruger Ranch 450BM at a 250# California sow at 150 yds.  Did the job quite well.  The 450BM load in my AR is with the 250 XPB Barnes at 2200fps.  Couldn't take that to Cali for some political reason.  I think it holds 7 rounds in a 20 round PMAG.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Alchase on April 10, 2020, 04:15:02 PM
Here is a picture of the 275 XPB Barnes, which is the bullet they produce for the 460 Mag, shot out of a Ruger Ranch 450BM at a 250# California sow at 150 yds.  Did the job quite well.  The 450BM load in my AR is with the 250 XPB Barnes at 2200fps.  Couldn't take that to Cali for some political reason.  I think it holds 7 rounds in a 20 round PMAG.

Pretty flower  :tup:
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Dan-o on April 10, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
Well if this said person is in the market. He has a friend in the firearm industry that has provided a few firearms to him already. I am sure this person could probably help him find some parts or a upper for said build. Bonus is this friend loves crunchy tuna and fish from said person :chuckle:

Roger that!  It might be an interesting project to build a gun only on trading fish.  I'm into this for some coho, prawns and halibut so far...

I will trade you a mil spec AR-15 trigger for 5 pounds of halibut.   

Guaranteed to shoot mile of angle.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: RB on April 10, 2020, 06:43:15 PM
Not to thread jack but have a random AR question, can we still buy 80% lowers without an FFL? I have been looking for the answer, but cannot find a definitive answer. Thanks
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: zwickeyman on April 10, 2020, 07:49:08 PM
Not to thread jack but have a random AR question, can we still buy 80% lowers without an FFL? I have been looking for the answer, but cannot find a definitive answer. Thanks

Yes
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Lucky1 on April 10, 2020, 08:30:29 PM
Not to thread jack but have a random AR question, can we still buy 80% lowers without an FFL? I have been looking for the answer, but cannot find a definitive answer. Thanks

Yes
If you do build one, make sure you put a makers mark on it so you are complying with federal law.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Yondering on April 10, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
Not to thread jack but have a random AR question, can we still buy 80% lowers without an FFL? I have been looking for the answer, but cannot find a definitive answer. Thanks

Yes
If you do build one, make sure you put a makers mark on it so you are complying with federal law.

Cite a source on that if you're going to make that claim.

The requirements for marking are for resale, not manufacturing for personal use.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Lucky1 on April 10, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Not to thread jack but have a random AR question, can we still buy 80% lowers without an FFL? I have been looking for the answer, but cannot find a definitive answer. Thanks

Yes
If you do build one, make sure you put a makers mark on it so you are complying with federal law.

Cite a source on that if you're going to make that claim.

The requirements for marking are for resale, not manufacturing for personal use.
https://regulations.atf.gov/478-92/2019-24301#478-92
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: ctwiggs1 on April 10, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
That regulation appears to be for licensed manufacturers.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Lucky1 on April 10, 2020, 09:49:12 PM
ATF - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives logoBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
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When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?

Receivers that meet the definition of a “firearm” must have markings, including a serial number. See 27 CFR § 478.92, Firearm manufacturers marking requirements.
Last Reviewed February 6, 2020

This is what makes me think it is required to have the gun marked.
If you make a gun, you are the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: jasnt on April 11, 2020, 05:57:32 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2020, 06:03:49 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Bingo
Also letting someone use your tools to make a firearm is a no no.
Make them your self with your own tools 👌
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: jackelope on April 11, 2020, 09:24:14 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Bingo
Also letting someone use your tools to make a firearm is a no no.
Make them your self with your own tools 👌

Huh?
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: Lucky1 on April 11, 2020, 09:56:22 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Bingo
Also letting someone use your tools to make a firearm is a no no.
Make them your self with your own tools 👌
It seems like there are lots of opinions about interpretation of the rules. You probably should consult a attorney if you are not confident that you understand the laws. I will put a makers mark or serial number on any that I build just to be safe. You all can do whatever you think is best. I apologize for posting in here at all.
Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Bingo
Also letting someone use your tools to make a firearm is a no no.
Make them your self with your own tools 👌
It seems like there are lots of opinions about interpretation of the rules. You probably should consult a attorney if you are not confident that you understand the laws. I will put a makers mark or serial number on any that I build just to be safe. You all can do whatever you think is best. I apologize for posting in here at all.
You can mark them ,there is nothing wrong with it.

Here is a YouTube
This guy is a lawyer that does YouTube's on gun laws. Skip to about the 5 min mark.Its where I looked for info before I did a 80 lower.

Title: Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2020, 10:53:44 AM
You are not a “manufacturer” unless you are marketing them for sale
Bingo
Also letting someone use your tools to make a firearm is a no no.
Make them your self with your own tools 👌

Huh?
Example:
Friend comes to your shop ,uses tools,and your experience to build gun.
Gun is used in a crime
Cop/atf will try to pin u as a manufacturer.
This is just EXAMPLE rarely happens.
But just safer to use your own tools and manufacturer yourself ,which is the 100% legal way.