Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 11:04:42 AM
My oldest boy is average size but he is a little bit delicate. He is getting better slowly but he definitely doesn't like discomfort and pain so I definitely want to start him on something with a light kick, looking back and talking to some other guys I feel Lucky my 308 experience didn't sour me on shooting.
I kind of want a new rifle for myself (I even have one picked out in my old man's safe :chuckle:) so I had thought about maybe just getting a better recoil pad for the 308 and working up some lower pressure loads for it and having him start there with my current rifle but I've never actually done either. I don't know if a recoil pad will actually cut down all that much felt recoil and how much a lower powder charge will affect things.
I've got two more future shooters coming up behind him so I was also thinking about just buying either a 243 or a 6.5 creedmore and possibly doing the same with a recoil pad and reduced loads since I can get more service out of the rifle. I shot a buddies 6.5 the last time I had my rifle out and it was considerably less felt recoil than my 308 and it was super accurate to boot. Like, my buddy had just bought it, shot it a dozen times before he handed it to me so he could get it on paper and my first three shots were as close as my 308 does (I'm a decent shot not a great shot). I know guys talk about how a 6.5 is the best and greatest but I feel like eventually he would need a bigger caliber but who knows. Maybe he needs that when he is old enough to buy his own rifle.
Would love to hear what some of the more knowledgeable folks think and what other dad's of young kids have done for a first centerfire rifle, especially experiences with recoil pads and reduced loads. Don't really want a brake as I don't like shooting at the range at opposite ends with a guy shooting a brake so I can't imagine how loud it must be pulling the trigger. Thanks.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 08, 2020, 11:11:06 AM
I went Savage 7mm 08. Kill anything in this state, pleasure to shoot. Tons of ammo choices.
In fact I like the 7mm 08 so much it will be my next rifle for retirement. Instead of the 30 06.
Ruger American or Savage :tup:
Post by: kselkhunter on April 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
But an excuse to buy a new rifle is always warranted and welcomed. :)
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 08, 2020, 11:13:10 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 11:16:29 AM
You didn't mention how much you wanted to spend. If it were me, I'd get him a bolt-action .22lr. I personally like the CZ 457. He'll always have room in the safe for a .22lr bolt, and it will last his whole life.
He has a 22lr now, he can manage the recoil on that still :chuckle: I'm thinking more centerfire in a year or so. I don't want to spend a ton on it but I want it to function.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 08, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
You didn't mention how much you wanted to spend. If it were me, I'd get him a bolt-action .22lr. I personally like the CZ 457. He'll always have room in the safe for a .22lr bolt, and it will last his whole life.
He has a 22lr now, he can manage the recoil on that still :chuckle: I'm thinking more centerfire in a year or so. I don't want to spend a ton on it but I want it to function.
Look at the Ruger and Savage package rifles. Come with scopes too. Great starters and glass can be changed later.
Post by: bearpaw on April 08, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
https://weatherby.com/store/vanguard-synthetic-compact/
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 12:25:59 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 08, 2020, 12:33:18 PM
1. Make sure the rifle fits.
2. Use reduced recoil ammunition to start, even with a milder caliber.
3. Make sure he uses excellent hearing protection. The anticipation of a "boom" can lead to flinching as much or more than recoil.
If you decide to get a new rifle, I'd consider the 7mm-08 as an excellent all around cartridge. I got my son a Savage youth-sized rifle in 7mm-08 when he was younger. It came with a 3-9x Nikon scope that's more than adequate. My son has killed plenty of critters with it. When he outgrew it my daughter used it to kill her first deer. It's a joy to carry and shoot.
Post by: Igor on April 08, 2020, 12:34:56 PM
I did my homework and learned to reload light loads for both of them. Those loads worked fine and they both killed deer with them. Eventually, they worked their way up to full loads, and they still shoot those today. You do have to be very careful when working with light/reduced loads, but in my experience it has been worth it.
Post by: Slow-drifter on April 08, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
Post by: The scout on April 08, 2020, 01:22:20 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 08, 2020, 01:31:37 PM
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on April 08, 2020, 01:41:20 PM
Post by: rainshadow1 on April 08, 2020, 01:56:54 PM
My bigger boys are on to 7mm Mag, and 300 Mag, and the smaller ones are likely fading away from big game, at least until I find another high percentage meat getting spot! But I'm really grateful for the time we had with the 700 Youths and the 243. (I myself find them great timber guns for Cougars too!)
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 05:18:59 PM
Post by: Hilltop123 on April 08, 2020, 05:21:39 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 08, 2020, 05:32:08 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 08, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
Post by: brokentrail on April 08, 2020, 06:50:59 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 06:54:30 PM
JP, I have a couple compact rifles my kids hunt with, (243 and 7mm08) you are welcome to have him shoot before you buy something if you would like.
I really appreciate the offer! He's about a year out I think but when the time comes I will definitely keep the offer in mind!
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 06:55:45 PM
Limbsaver has made shooting for my daughter much better in her opinion
I was looking at their stuff since their name comes up alot. Their site says 70% reduction in recoil, was what you guys experienced anywhere near that? I might have to try it on my rifle if it works that well. Was your daughter using one of their slip on ones or an attached one?
Post by: jasnt on April 08, 2020, 07:44:14 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on April 08, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 08, 2020, 08:11:46 PM
I'd have thought it's about the same recoil wise I'm surprised to see so many people listing it as a good kids caliber. Not that a 307 is really a thumper but it's not as tame as some other calibers.
Post by: ghosthunter on April 08, 2020, 08:20:03 PM
I can't say I understand all the ins and outs of recoil but is a 7mm-08 really much less kick than a 308? Isn't it the same case?
I'd have thought it's about the same recoil wise I'm surprised to see so many people listing it as a good kids caliber. Not that a 307 is really a thumper but it's not as tame as some other calibers.
The 7 mm 08 seems to be popular now because it is a platform that kids can shoot for life even if they later get into shooting longer distances. I had a 308 auto and I think the 7 mm 08 had less recoil also. :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on April 08, 2020, 08:24:34 PM
I can't say I understand all the ins and outs of recoil but is a 7mm-08 really much less kick than a 308? Isn't it the same case?
I'd have thought it's about the same recoil wise I'm surprised to see so many people listing it as a good kids caliber. Not that a 307 is really a thumper but it's not as tame as some other calibers.
I have a 308 as well and my kids prefer the 7-08 over all three.
Post by: ckr on April 08, 2020, 09:02:29 PM
Post by: BigGoonTuna on April 09, 2020, 08:39:42 AM
I don’t know what it is about my experience with that chambering, but I shoot a lot harder kicking calibers with a lot less discomfort, including a ruger 30-06 with the infamous boat paddle stock. May have something to do with stock design.
Alright, enough of my tangent here, I saw the OP mentioned that they handload, that would make me recommend getting a lighter “adult” rifle and putting in a youth stock. With something like a .308, you can load up something like a 125gr ballistic tip or accubond at around 2500fps, this will duplicate a 7.62x39, good for around 150-200 yards and pretty low on recoil and noise. Once he can handle some more, you can step it up to .300 savage level at 2900-3000fps, or step up to a 150gr bullet at 2500-2600fps. This would realistically cover about any normal hunting situation and still be pretty mild. Finally, you can load that .308 to it’s full potential with a 150gr bullet at 2900fps or go to a 165 or 180gr bullet.
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2020, 10:02:43 AM
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002530831?pid=680235
I use one when shooting big bores off the bench and they do help.
A field weight version might do wonders for a young kid. I have found that just the suggestion that something will reduce recoil has a magic effect of making someone think it really does. So the placebo effect alone might be worth while.
Bench shooting for extended times can be brutal...
I have introduced a number of young and new shooters to firearms. I find spending a day at the range moving up in recoil is a good method. i.e.
1. Start with a 22 LR for a few rounds (familiar, quieter, no noticeable recoil)
2. Move to a 223 or 204 ruger style (AR platform is even better) This helps deal with the aforementioned "boom" effect seen when moving from a 22LR to a center fire.
3. Go with a mid-level firearm like a 243 or a 22.250. Now you are dealing with some recoil, but after shooting a 22 and a 223, both the trigger pull and extra noise have been experienced so adding a bit of push is easier to consume.
4. If you want to move on to a 30.06 Springfield or similar, it is just one more step up the ladder
I try to limit the shooting to an hour or so tops. And if possible I look for a time when the range is less crowded as it can be hard to talk and coach when people are shooting 300 WM's with brakes 3 feet from your ear! Also quite intimidating for the new shooter.
Post by: Katmai Guy on April 09, 2020, 11:17:11 AM
Post by: Stein on April 09, 2020, 11:28:14 AM
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2020, 12:09:44 PM
https://www.gunbroker.com/Bolt-Action-Rifles/search?Keywords=7.62x39&Sort=13&PageSize=24
Post by: Jpmiller on July 23, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
I've typically used 165s, I've asked a couple folks I know and gotten conflicting info. Would a lighter bullet give less felt recoil or heavier? Started a bit of a fight asking some buddies so you folks keep it civil!
Post by: jrebel on July 23, 2021, 10:41:41 PM
So I finally got around to picking up a limbsaver recoil pad. Going to throw it on and see what the difference is. Won't be hunting with it until November so can still get a few range trips in before season. Hopefully it works like it's supposed to and next winter I'll figure out some lighter loads for it too.
I've typically used 165s, I've asked a couple folks I know and gotten conflicting info. Would a lighter bullet give less felt recoil or heavier? Started a bit of a fight asking some buddies so you folks keep it civil!
Lighter bullets will have less felt recoil in most cases. The exception being a heavy bullet with a subsonic round and a lighter bullet with a stout round (kind of extreme example but you get the point). Lighter bullets have less felt recoil in most hunting ammo.
I am loading my daughters 6.5 creedmoor with a 124gr. bullet with a stout powder charge that is chronographing at 2850 fps and it is less felt recoil than the 140 grain bullet at 2680 fps.
Post by: bobcat on July 23, 2021, 10:56:16 PM
Post by: hunter399 on July 24, 2021, 03:14:23 AM
308 really shines with the 150gr ,will have less recoil lower bullet wt.
My son is 15 and almost my weight,so recoil was never an issue. He shoots 308 ,loaded to max,150 gr.
But the one thing I think help him the most is.
I had him dry fire that rifle many many many times ,next day after target shooting. Just so he would know when that trigger breaks. Made him hold on a target and dry fire at home with no loaded ammo around. Seems like he got really dialed in after that.
I know some rifles you can't do that ,his is a axis.
Post by: fowl smacker on July 24, 2021, 05:58:16 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on July 24, 2021, 07:59:19 AM
I'm really leaning towards buying myself a new rifle or sneaking my grandfather's from my dad's place next time I'm over and letting the kids use my current rifle.
Or maybe I'll get a new rifle for me and one for each of them too, the possibilities are endless. I've got room in the safe....
Post by: buckfvr on July 24, 2021, 08:48:58 AM
Post by: HooknoseHunter on July 24, 2021, 03:35:01 PM
Weatherby Camilla in 7mm-08 :tup:
That’s a girls rifle Jimmy
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on July 24, 2021, 04:24:11 PM
Post by: medic6 on July 24, 2021, 05:04:53 PM
Post by: HooknoseHunter on July 25, 2021, 09:48:30 AM
Post by: bwgdc on July 25, 2021, 10:05:43 AM
Post by: Igor on July 25, 2021, 10:10:22 AM
Both are now in their 40s, and they still have those Brownings as their deer rifles.
Post by: Bob33 on July 25, 2021, 10:13:31 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on July 25, 2021, 10:14:50 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on November 08, 2021, 06:43:24 AM
While I was shooting it I was again reminded that I've always kind of wanted to lower the trigger pull a bit on it. I've never done it but I've been told there's a way of adjusting the factory triggers or just dropping a new one in.
I don't know that I have a specific reason but I feel like having a lower trigger pull on a rifle for a kids rifle might pose some concern but I can also sort of talk myself into it being better for them too. Any of you guys with more experience have any input on kids and trigger pull?
Post by: bearpaw on November 27, 2021, 08:03:32 AM
I've got some loaner guns that I let hunters use, often times it's women or kids that end up using the milder kicking guns, most don't want a lot of recoil, and most of these shooters are never going to shoot further than 300 yards, I like to get lighter weight barnes ttsx bullets for those guns, the recoil is so much less and the barnes will still go clear through the animal because it doesn't lose weight on impact. I've been using 150 grain ttsx in .30 caliber but I'm going to try some 130's to see if they still perform as well. A .308 winchester or a 30/06 will be well over 3000 fps with a 130 gr bullet and should be very flat shooting out to 200-300 yards.
I also have a model seven 6mm that we let other people shoot at times, I've always bought 100 grain Remington corelocks for it which worked just fine, but I see barnes has an 80 grain ttsx that I'm going to try out one of these days. It will be less recoil for sure!
Not all guns are adjustable. Be careful you don't get it too light if you do adjust it or change triggers so you can adjust it, IMO about 3 lbs is probably pretty light for less experienced shooters.
Post by: Jpmiller on November 27, 2021, 08:37:11 AM