Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: nwmein199 on May 15, 2020, 07:49:55 AM
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Curious...I hunt elk here in western WA so thick brush and close shots (50-100 yards tops). I want to buy a new rifle for hunting season and thinking about stainless steel lever action (main reason is I just want a lever action rifle and not set on caliber yet but leaning towards 45 long colt). I have never seen anyone else out elk hunting with a lever action around here so I am trying to pick your brains; pros and cons to lever action for western wa modern elk hunting? Thanks for your input!
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I wouldn't limit myself with the 45 colt. 30-30 is were I would start.
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I see a few, mostly .30-30s and .45-70s. I've heard of a few .444s, .300 Sav out there for elk. The BLRs have a selection of rimless bottlenecks that would work for elk. I would think if you go with a 45 LC, you would need some of the hotter loads for the modern lever guns.
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Shot my first elk when I was a kid with a Winchester 94 30-30 under 100 yards and he didn’t go far at all . I wouldn’t use a .45 long colt you would be better of with a .45-70 considering range
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Shot my first elk when I was a kid with a Winchester 94 30-30 under 100 yards and he didn’t go far at all . I wouldn’t use a .45 long colt you would be better of with a .45-70 considering range
Can you elaborate on the reasoning here? Thanks!
I was thinking 45 long colt for a couple reasons:
-I am always worried about "enough" knock down power for elk...if they run 100 yards around here sometimes they can be impossible to find
-Do not want a magnum round
-Want fairly readily available ammo at the store since I dont reload
Then again I hunt now with a .270 they all die if you hit them in the heart :chuckle:
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Savage 99 in 308? Or blr in 308?
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.30-30 has some good “punch” and .45-70 has a good “thump”. Those are technical terms. lol
I’d be up for either depending on the budget for factory ammo or handloads. With your intent to hunt the wet side, I’d also recommend getting one with a finish what will resist the elements
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.45-70 no question and there is readily available ammunition. Even with full house handloads, I wouldn't recommend buying an elk rifle that I was afraid of hitting an elk shoulder with.
Elk are certainly not one of the more difficult critters to track even without blood.
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.30-30 has some good “punch” and .45-70 has a good “thump”. Those are technical terms. lol
.30-30 has nothing on the .45-70 for "punch" assuming you mean penetration. Even slow moving 400 grain bullets penetrate a long darn way.
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.45lc seems a little light. My choice would be a 45-70, but if you wanted less recoil, a 30-30 with Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do the trick.
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IMHO, Look at the 38-55 then the 444 Marlin. Then there is the old stand-by's 30-06 and 308.
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As cool as the 38-55 is, I doubt it meets his criteria for a stainless and easily available ammo
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If it must be a lever get real elk/bear performance. Threaded for brake.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/lever-action-x-model-45-70/
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I have a Marlin in .338 Marlin Express. I really like it. .338 bullet with the same ballistics as a 180 grain 30-06.
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.30-30 has some good “punch” and .45-70 has a good “thump”. Those are technical terms. lol
.30-30 has nothing on the .45-70 for "punch" assuming you mean penetration. Even slow moving 400 grain bullets penetrate a long darn way.
I wasn't saying that one is superior to the other.
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If it must be a lever get real elk/bear performance. Threaded for brake.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/lever-action-x-model-45-70/
You mean threaded for suppressor, right? :chuckle:
I facilitated a transfer of one of those last week and looked it over quite a bit because I was interested in it as well. I was surprised that it didn't have a cross bolt safety or a safety that would require the hand lever to be pressed against the stock or lower tang such as on a model 94. So, if you have the hammer back and something snags the trigger hard enough, BOOM.
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.30-30 has some good “punch” and .45-70 has a good “thump”. Those are technical terms. lol
.30-30 has nothing on the .45-70 for "punch" assuming you mean penetration. Even slow moving 400 grain bullets penetrate a long darn way.
I wasn't saying that one is superior to the other.
I was! :chuckle:
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This one. Agree with those saying go up from .45 LC. 45-70 is ridiculously easy to load, even if you only have a Lee Handloader, and Lee dippers for powder measure. Powder sensitivity is relatively low and we're not talking 1,000 yard rifles here. 45-70 is one of those rounds where it pays immediately to reload.
1895 GS for you Marlin 45-70 fans. It has a WWG big loop lever and trigger and the sights are the XS ghost ring and post.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60755.0;attach=185207;image)
I need about 4 more. .22 LR, .44 Mag, .357, and 30-30.
Super lightweight. Now they have the 1895 SBL and such with full-length magazines. While really cool-looking and I like the complete factory package including laminate stock, and while wanting one of those too, I wonder how the extra rounds would affect the handling and carryability.
IIRC, there is one in the classifieds here, well-outfitted. I'll try to find it. Couldn't find it. Must've sold or been removed.
You should get both a .45 LC and a 45-70 and report back.
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If it must be a lever get real elk/bear performance. Threaded for brake.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/lever-action-x-model-45-70/
You mean threaded for suppressor, right? :chuckle:
I facilitated a transfer of one of those last week and looked it over quite a bit because I was interested in it as well. I was surprised that it didn't have a cross bolt safety or a safety that would require the hand lever to be pressed against the stock or lower tang such as on a model 94. So, if you have the hammer back and something snags the trigger hard enough, BOOM.
For sure something to be aware of even though there are other early models with out the cross bolt safety, to include many 30-30s.
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This one. Agree with those saying go up from .45 LC. 45-70 is ridiculously easy to load, even if you only have a Lee Handloader, and Lee dippers for powder measure. Powder sensitivity is relatively low and we're not talking 1,000 yard rifles here. 45-70 is one of those rounds where it pays immediately to reload.
1895 GS for you Marlin 45-70 fans. It has a WWG big loop lever and trigger and the sights are the XS ghost ring and post.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=60755.0;attach=185207;image)
I need about 4 more. .22 LR, .44 Mag, .357, and 30-30.
Super lightweight. Now they have the 1895 SBL and such with full-length magazines. While really cool-looking and I like the complete factory package including laminate stock, and while wanting one of those too, I wonder how the extra rounds would affect the handling and carryability.
IIRC, there is one in the classifieds here, well-outfitted. I'll try to find it.
You should get both a .45 LC and a 45-70 and report back.
the 45-70 is money! i have dumped several with mine . i will say reach of rifles was an issue on early models. easily adjusted with a thick recoil pad and nylon shim plate. the newer XLR's have a good reach and they shoot very friendly when they "fit" you
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I bubba-added a limbsaver pad to mine, but I need to get a smith to clean it up for me. 300 grain at 2,000 fps are pretty brisk for such a light rifle.
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Given your criteria, I'd go 45/70.
They come in a variety of platforms, have Elk knockdown power and readily available ammo.
If you get one, check the Hornady Levertion (however you spell it)
ammo. Seriously improved 45/70 ballistics.
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:yeah:
45-70 would be the way to go, unless that's more recoil than you'd like. But at a minimum at least go with the 30/30, there's no point I see in using something less powerful like the 45 Long Colt.
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I wouldnt feel comfortable shooting an elk with a .45lc. There are always the winchester 88, blr etc that use standard rifle cartridges, or if that doesnt float your boat, id go .45-70 or .444 marlin. Both marlin and henry make threaded models. Theyre ugly as sin, but hey, its a tool.
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I've killed elk with the 45-70 and 44 mag marlins and love them in the brush of western wa. My dad is a big fan of the 38-55 and has killed elk with it along with his 444 and 44 mags. My first choice would be a 45-70 and second choice would be 44 mag if easily available ammo is a concern.
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Somewhat related, I've been doing some reading, and apparently the new Marlin rifles are very much improved from the dreaded Remlin rifles of 10 years ago. And most of them are a few hundred less than the Henry's.
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I want a .444 bad
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If it must be a lever get real elk/bear performance. Threaded for brake.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/lever-action-x-model-45-70/
You mean threaded for suppressor, right? :chuckle:
I facilitated a transfer of one of those last week and looked it over quite a bit because I was interested in it as well. I was surprised that it didn't have a cross bolt safety or a safety that would require the hand lever to be pressed against the stock or lower tang such as on a model 94. So, if you have the hammer back and something snags the trigger hard enough, BOOM.
For sure something to be aware of even though there are other early models with out the cross bolt safety, to include many 30-30s.
That’s what I was pointing out.
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Thanks for all the replies! Lots of great input :)
Pros/cons of a lever action vs. bolt action for western WA elk?
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There are places in Western Washington where 50 yards is a long shot, and other places where shots of 500 yards or more are possible. The lever gun works great in the first case; bolt actions work in both. :twocents:
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There are places in Western Washington where 50 yards is a long shot, and other places where shots of 500 yards or more are possible. The lever gun works great in the first case; bolt actions work in both. :twocents:
What a lousy excuse not to buy a gun. You're banned.
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I love hunting with my 94s and 99s in general. I would use them more for elk if I knew for sure I'd only be hunting timber. But it seems like I always end up doing some timber hunting as well as glassing and sitting on cuts. Most of the time I'd rather not need 2 rifles. The perfect woods gun is probably not the perfect clearcut gun. I feel OK with my Mod99 in 308 for either, but just barely.
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I really like a lever action in the timber, especially without a scope, because they're so easy to carry. My problem now is with my age, my eyes don't work that great anymore for open sights. So because of that I prefer to have a scope, and to me it kind of ruins the balance of a lever action rifle, so I'd still just use my bolt action with the scope. But if you're good with open sights I think a lever action rifle is a great choice.
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There are places in Western Washington where 50 yards is a long shot, and other places where shots of 500 yards or more are possible. The lever gun works great in the first case; bolt actions work in both. :twocents:
Could get an win 1895 in .30-06 and be there with the bolt guns. I'm working on a build now for a 71 in .348 Ackley Improved, just a tad below a 35 Whelen in a lever.
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The new Henrys can be used with iron sights or scopes.. I was tempted to get one in 308
I really like a lever action in the timber, especially without a scope, because they're so easy to carry. My problem now is with my age, my eyes don't work that great anymore for open sights. So because of that I prefer to have a scope, and to me it kind of ruins the balance of a lever action rifle, so I'd still just use my bolt action with the scope. But if you're good with open sights I think a lever action rifle is a great choice.
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My western elk woods lever gun if I'm going into really thick areas. 356 Winchester w/Burris FastFire III.
My family grew up hunting western OR with 30-30s for elk. Regularly harvested elk with 170gr bullets. All those shots were within 100 yards....long shots didn't exist where we hunted. I rebored my 30-30 to 356W for some extra thump.
45-70 is more than enough thump for an elk. I'd also look at the a 444 Marlin; I like those. Or you could always go BLR and have plenty of cartridge options in that platform, as it's not a tubular magazine.
If I am going somewhere with a chance of a little longer shot then I take the bolt action 35 Whelen with scope for elk west side. If it's going to be really wet west side or if longer shots on an east side hunt, I take the X-Bolt Long Range stainless 7mmRM for elk.
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I had a .300 savage model 99 that was plenty accurate enough, but the bore was pitted and would give me some crazy poi changes if I cleaned it. Sent it off to JES a few weeks ago and it came home as a .358 Winchester. :chuckle: Hope I can go try it out this weekend.
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I had a .300 savage model 99 that was plenty accurate enough, but the bore was pitted and would give me some crazy poi changes if I cleaned it. Sent it off to JES a few weeks ago and it came home as a .358 Winchester. :chuckle: Hope I can go try it out this weekend.
Sweet!
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I've got a BLR 358 and love it. Shot my buck last year with factory Hornady 200 gr interlocks open sights at 98 yards. Your gonna pay up front for the gun if you can find one (Carpsniper2) found one for me after a couple months and had it shipped out from North Carolina. Beautiful gun and it shoots like a dream. 35 cal bullet puts em down
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If it must be a lever get real elk/bear performance. Threaded for brake.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/lever-action-x-model-45-70/
This would be a great setup!
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.32 winchester! I have killed two elk with mine. Dead!! Shot placement
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.45lc seems a little light. My choice would be a 45-70, but if you wanted less recoil, a 30-30 with Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do the trick.
I like that leverevolution 30-30, about all I run in them.
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.45lc seems a little light. My choice would be a 45-70, but if you wanted less recoil, a 30-30 with Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do the trick.
I like that leverevolution 30-30, about all I run in them.
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A lot better performance and not significantly more expensive than anything else.
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.45lc seems a little light. My choice would be a 45-70, but if you wanted less recoil, a 30-30 with Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do the trick.
I like that leverevolution 30-30, about all I run in them.
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:yeah: Super impressed with these rounds.
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The Win 1895 is a good choice. I routinely hunt with mine in 405 Win or 35 Whelen. The 30-06 is a happy medium, you can load it with heavy bullets or light depending on what you are hunting. They are heavier than a Marlin, I hear Marlin has the 444 back in the catalog.When needing more thump I pick up the Marlin 450 AK with 420 gr pills, :chuckle:
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I prefer the look and feel of the 94s. Handloaded 220gr. in .375 seems to kill big things very dead. Easy carry and not hard on the shoulder.
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I love leverguns for elk. I own about 8 or 9.
A 45 colt is too light in my opinion. Most factory ammo is loaded lighter for old Colt SAAs although there are some +P options.
You can probably find a used Winchester 88 for about $500 in 308. They don't have great triggers, but they are good nuff. For Savage 99's you can also get in about the same price point, in 300 savage or 308.
I also think the 444, 4570, 35 remington are all excellent calibers for Western Oregon and Washington.
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Any of you all have any feed back on the Hornady FTX bullets in lever guns on game animals?
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I shot my first elk with my dads Marlin 336 .35 Remington. Good old core-locs. They are fast shooting guns. I was able to hit it 4 times before it could run away. My dream lever gun is an old Texan in .35 Remington.
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I shot my first elk with my dads Marlin 336 .35 Remington. Good old core-locs. They are fast shooting guns. I was able to hit it 4 times before it could run away. My dream lever gun is an old Texan in .35 Remington.
im on a constant search for a tk
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Winchester 88 in .308 or .358. Fast handling gun! I own two of them and they are great guns!
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I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a 45.70 lever action for wetside hunting. Only thing is I have bad arthritis in my shoulders. I haven't ever shot this round so I'm expecting the recoil is substantial but not having experienced it can it be described as sharp or more of a thumper? Real technical I know. I've hunted with 30.06 for deer and elk most of my life so is it a lot worse recoil than a model 700 with a 180 grain? Would the lighter grain ammo in 45.70 still be adequate for elk?
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I know it is a hard one to find but what about a Savage 99 in .264 Winchester?
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I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a 45.70 lever action for wetside hunting. Only thing is I have bad arthritis in my shoulders. I haven't ever shot this round so I'm expecting the recoil is substantial but not having experienced it can it be described as sharp or more of a thumper? Real technical I know. I've hunted with 30.06 for deer and elk most of my life so is it a lot worse recoil than a model 700 with a 180 grain? Would the lighter grain ammo in 45.70 still be adequate for elk?
It is not insubstantial..... at least in my guide gun.
I'd be lying if I said I wanted to take it out and shoot it all day.
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I popped off a few shots with the Hornady 325 Flex tips on Friday. First time I’d fired my 1895. I was expecting more recoil. Maybe I’d built it up in my head. I would not want to lay prone over a bag all day. Far less than my 12 gauge with turkey loads. More like a heavy shove than a sharp kick.
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Thanks guys, I can deal with the heavy shove kind of recoil, it's the real sharp stuff that I regret and feel for days afterward. I've always wanted one so I'm gonna go for it and if it doesn't work out one of my grand kids or nephews can inherit the thing at some point.
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https://www.discountfirearms.com/rifles/lever-action-rifles?caliber=39&page=1
How about that for a lever gun
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no ones mentioned the 30/40krag lever action for elk. still has decent fps and lbs when it hits its target.
Old for sure but still a very good lever action of the dark woods of that area.
I inherited mine from my dad when he passed.
I'm trying to start my own lever-action collection. so yeah.
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I think the ideal timber rifle might be a Browning BAR in 7mm Mag or .300 Win Mag. I owned a Browning BLR in 7mm Mag but I was not fond of the rifle. It was pretty inaccurate and not nearly as fast on follow up shots as my dad’s BAR in .300 Win Mag. Just a thought.
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I grew up hunting elk with a Winchester Model 88 .308 with a 2x7 Leupold, and killed several elk with it while hunting the westside. Follow up shots are quick with the lever actions.
I recently bought another 88 calibered in .284 Win., because I love these rifles.
I ditto what riverrun mentioned, they are great guns.
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I carried a Savage model 99c in .308 for the first 5-6 years I hunted, never connected on an elk but took a few deer with it. The guy I bought the gun from killed a few elk with it.
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My Grandpa killed a lot of elk, deer, and antelope with a savage 99 in a 22 high power. I am sure On elk that it had to do with shot placement. But he said it put em down with one shot. He always told me to practice,practice,practice!
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450 marlin !
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The beginning of this post has me a little confused. Is the OP arguing that a pistol round (45lc) has more knockdown power than any of the rifle rounds mentioned? I would agree with most of the other posts that most of the rifles offered in today's lever guns with quality ammo will do the job you're looking for. Pistol rounds for elk is not the best idea.
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The beginning of this post has me a little confused. Is the OP arguing that a pistol round (45lc) has more knockdown power than any of the rifle rounds mentioned? I would agree with most of the other posts that most of the rifles offered in today's lever guns with quality ammo will do the job you're looking for. Pistol rounds for elk is not the best idea.
Nope. I was asking everyone opinion on the lever action calibers for elk and just that I was leaning towards a 45LC. After all the amazing feedback, 45LC is not on my radar for lever gun - and thats why I asked the more knowledgeable folks.
Thanks everyone for your input! Lots of good info in here.
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I have a friend that has a 45LC lever gun. It's really a fun gun. Buy one then buy a different gun for elk.
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I've killed a handful of elk with my marlin 45/70 guide gun. I like the 350 gr hornady interlock bullet behind a pile imr 4198.
I don't think recoil is that bad. The smaller 300 gr bullets at a higher velocity have more of a snappy recoil vs the big bullets that have more of a push recoil.
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I have a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. Bought it new a few years ago. I use Hornady Leverevolution 200 gr FTX. It has a cross bolt safety and side eject. Mounted with a scope. Last elk I shot was at 35 yards. Killed it dead. Beautiful elk gun.
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Watched my older brother from across the canyon take a bull with his .300 Savage, tag teamed a bull with my younger brother which I was using a .300 Savage lever and BLR .308 for him, Dad took a bull in Idaho with 7mm-08 BLR. Guess you could say my family has a thing for the lever actions. Biggest downfall I find is the lever guns can have a stiffer trigger pull and hard to adjust on the BLRs which make longer shots difficult. Personal Preference but I'll take my 7mm-08 BLR whitetail hunting but take my .270 win or .300 wby bolts where longer shots are more likely.
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Plan to hunt roosies with my .308 savage 99 this year. I love the gun, accurate and short and easy to carry. Dunno if im gunna catch anything but im damn well gunna try. Ill tell you how it goes lol
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45 LC would do just fine, I shot a bull at a few years back with a 44 running 305s the shoulder shots past through at 50ish yards and I recovered the bullet from the final shot that was a hard quarter away at 85 yards the shot went in behind the ribs and recovered on the offside in front of the shoulder.
I picked up a Big horn armory in 500 S&W last summer so I had to test that out during deer season. its a beast